New war in 48 hrs? (Page 2)

BTW i did point out that N. Korea should be the first threat to be aware of, if you read my last posts.

What I don't like is that as soon as the War in Iraq became official, conventional media just kind of forgot about North Korea. The news is so sellective it makes me quite annoyed.

"Shock and Awe". Does any one else think this is a stupid name? Who get's to come up with these names? "Operation Iraqi Freedom". Do you think the Iraqis are laughing at this or what?

I just have to comment that when this thing in Iraq is all over, it would be very... (I don't want to say funny, it'd actually be rather tragic, although I probably couldn't help laughing because of the dark sadistic cookiemonster that I am)... Ironic if no trace of weapons of mass destruction could be found in Iraq. Personally I don't think that taking over Iraq is going to help decrease terrorism that much... It seems to me that it's only going to make terrorists more pissed and angry, and I'm sure that they'll find other places to get weapons and funding.

Mayson, firstly I have never professed to know everything, and I value independent thought (even yours). I am sorry you took my post so personally, as it was meant to be taken as a statement NOT an attack. I have come across MANY ignorant statements...mainly at another site I frequent..and am finding it all so frustrating. Unfortunately, political discussion is not allowed at this other site, although Americans seem to have immunity there. Here, I can voice my opinions freely, as can everyone (whether they are right or wrong). Sorry if my post made you feel as if I brought you down, wasn't my intention. And to add, as previously stated, IF my interpretation was incorrect, then my following comment should have been ignored. Take care. Peace. Out.

one luv law

i just didn't like the "ignorant part" of your statement... could have rephrased it to innocent. quite better. but i also would like to make an apology for the comment i gave you. i was being sensitive about it, took it as an attack and had a short temper which was a result from arguing with my femfriend. walk on and fogetaboutit.
it was also mybad on my part.

How can a sight restrict people from political discussion at a time like this— How stupid!!!

Lawgoddess, is all that really true about North Korea? Because that was, while very informative, possibly one of the most disturbing things I've ever read... 😢

And just to make a general statement of opinion directed at no one in particular, Saddam Hussein's atrocities he's committed against his very own people are unbelievable, he is a terrorist.

And I think the reason it seems the news "forgot" about north korea, is simply because this is taking precedence at the moment. We're really very hesitant to inflame north korea any more than they already are, because they could REALLY do SERIOUS damage.

The world, it's filled with wackos I tell ya...

AND speaking of the media..

(sorry to but in to you people's conversation)

but don't you think it's funny that no one's heard about osama bin laden these days? All this supposed "war on terrorism" and we're still missing the MAIN suspect of terrorist crimes in America (9-11 ring a bell??).

i think he's just hiding out, waiting for the perfect moment to strike again, because he knows he's being temporarily unnoticed, which is a VERY SCARY thing, in my opinion. America, I'm afraid, is in an even more vulnerable position than some of us think, with North Korea AND Al Queida, armed, ready and waiting for us to be weakened by Iraq.

....that is, unless of course, you really believe that we are "killing two birds with one stone" by simply going after Saddam Hussein.

I agree about Bin Laden. And it is very scary. It's really sad, too, when you think about it. Maybe it's just me, or maybe I wasn't informed enough before to know any better, but it just seems like all this extreme hatred and destructive feelings other countries have toward the u.s. seem to have come to a head in such a short time, it's like we've barely even had a chance to absorb and accept the fact that we are so hated, and we're having our buildings blown up and destroyed and now we're fighting two wars (even though I think bush would like us to think it's all under one umbrella, the "war against terror" umbrella), and it's getting really worrisome and troubling, our soldiers are being executed and humiliated on camera, we still haven't captured bin laden, we have this "imminent" threat of a "certain" terrorist attack looming in the back of our minds, our neighbors and friends and family and ex-boyfriends are being shipped away to fight a very dangerous war, it's all a little much to deal with.

i can't even explain how I feel with this war and everything. GAARRRGGG!!! is the closest I can come.

First of all, I hope this war is not over quickly, not short lasting only a week or so. Real change doesn't happen in only a week. Look at Afghanistan, we went in there took it over, how long did it take? Then we forgot about it and went somewhere else. We still have problems there, I haven't seen any progress yet. I do believe that Iraq is in need of some serious change but I am all over the place political wise as to whether I think we are doing the right thing.

Also, something else makes me angry- I was listenin to the radio and people calling up and talking about their feelings on the war. Most of the pro-war (though too mean of a term but you get it) people said all the protesters were unpatriotic which is the exact opposite of the truth. one person even said, indignantly, that those protesters didn't feel for the people who lost families on 9/11, that all those families support the war and want Saddam out. This makes me want to scream! My family lost someone in the 9/11 trgedy and no one in my family wants to see us go to war-and they especially do not want to be seen as part of the vocal cause of the war.

Well, thanks for letting me vent. I'll be back with more GARG-ling comments soon.

I just came back to this post sounds like we had a bit of a war here. Now the french thought for the day. The french are a smallish bunch and not dressed any better,on average, than the citizens of Baltimore or manchester for that matter. True, you can sit outside in paris and drink little cups of coffee or sip wine, but why this is more stylish than sitting inside and drinking large glasses of whiskey I will never know.

P.S. not mine P.J. O'Rourke wrote the above or something close to it.

I really don't think the government has "forgotten" about Bin Laden, I just think the media has... I think Bin Laden should be mob linched by angry new yorkers, that, I think, would be a just fate for him.

lol james - I needed to read something humourous.

Just as a sideline on anti-american sentiments and this isn't meant as an insult phoenix, there's a huge wave of anti-americanism that has been going on for years, I think America has only realised recently though. For instance here in australia, which is one of America's allies, you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who has anything positive to say about the country (and it's not a recent development).

I'm not trying to start an arguement and I don't have a chip on my shoulder etc. I had a conversation with an american backpacker (can't remember where I was) and she said it must be nice to go to a country and be welcommed as a backpacker, because as soon as she opens her mouth and people hear her accent, she is greeted with nothing but hostility.

Hmmm....I don't know whether that would be the experience of all American Backpackers here. I would like to think ppl here can distinguish b/w government and its ppl. True, there is much anti-Americanism here, like the rest of the world..but it against the governement. Unfortunately, some of our more 'ignorant' (lol- yes, using that word again) citizens are uneducated and this animosity carries over to the ppl. Sad really. Well..update on war from Australia. The media seems to be debating new protests about ppl complaining they are seeing too much war on TV. Funny, as apart from the first 2 days, news about the war only occurs first thing in the morning and in the evening news...I don't think that is overkill. And what are ppl's views on the footage of the POW's? Was it a good or bad thing? (Let's not get into possible future acts of torture etc...) From my perspective, if they were my relatives, I would be relieved to know they are alive, and have faith that they would be strong enough to get through this...alive. Better than sitting there not knowing, EVEN though it is distressing enough in itself.

LOL, if I go to Australia, I'll put on a fake accent, or pretend I'm Canadian.

Yeah...I understand what you're saying Cortica. I'm sure anti-americanism has been around for quite some time, I just didn't realize it until recently (and I think our media didn't focus on it so much in the past). And that's too bad about your backpacker acquaintance being treated with hostility. It really shows the prejudices and small-mindedness of some people. It would be like an arab tourist here being shunned and treated with hostility because of the terrorist attacks and the hostility our government feels toward their government. It's not that person's fault, why can't people see that? I wish people would be less ignorant and figure it out that what a few people do, even what another country's government does, does not necessarily reflect the mindset of all the people in that country. As a side note, I was in disneyland last year and there was a very hostile exchange between an american guy and what looked to be a middle eastern guy. The two families were walking toward each other, and of course it gets very crowded in disneyland, and it's easy to accidentally bump into people, it happens all the time. I guess that's what happened here. Well, men in general seem to have a difficult time keeping their tempers in check there for some reason, I think it's all the pink and fruitiness and the "happiness" of it all (lol). Anyway, next thing I know the american guy is telling the middle eastern guy what a son of a you know what/***hole he is and to "GO BACK TO AFGHANISTAN!!". Yeah. Real nice. It was pretty disturbing, I guess the underlying resentment about the 9-11 thing was the driving force behind the guy's reaction. Totally uncalled for though, I'm sure the children that were with their dads really needed to see that. 😢 Anyway, I guess to sum up, I really can't worry about "world opinion" of america and americans anymore, because it is their ignorance to hate us all because of our government. And you know, I don't think we're going to "change" the way everyone wants us to as long as we feel like we're being treated with hostility. It's like if you were being yelled and hollered at by someone to "stop" doing whatever it is you're doing...it'll upset you that someone's upset with you, and you'll be taken aback by the yelling, but in the end it just pisses you off more and you'll resist doing what the yelling person wants you to do even more, just to prove that you can't be controlled by them.

Did anyone see the stand up act on Comedy Central by comedian Greg Proops— He had a bit on the stupidity of American government and also a bit on how Australians hate Americans... It was really funny. LOl, Just rereading, I guess it sort of sounds odd to say that such unreasonable hate between people of different nationalities is funny... Hmmm, it's dangerous, but when you really think about it, it's so stupid that it becomes extremely funny. I still can't figure out why people are the dominant species on the planet. I don't think we really are... I think it's the mice, and they just let us THINK we're in charge so they can do experiments on us...

I think it could be the mosquitos. Damn things could wipe us out with their nasty diseases.

And I forgot to mention that I won't be visiting my american friend in australia any time soon, now that i know the general nasty feelings they harbor toward us. You know, I should ask him if he's experienced any hostility...he hasn't mentioned it, but who knows? I've got to get his take on all of this.

Maybe we should just cut off all aid of all kinds to all countries who cookiemonster about us! lol

Here in Canterbury we don't mind americans we dislike the french who come across and flood the streets on weekends. But most americans are quite nice cause no trouble. Maybe its just me having lived there and knowing they can be over the top sometimes but its just there way they mean nothing by it. The one thing I do not get is the french you have paris and you have france they hate each outher. People in paris have an complex agianst the rest of the country. Why? and a french man from out side paris hate the paris dwellers.

Interesting, you're full of fact and observations I never would have been aware of, james. I have no idea why the parisians have a complex against the rest of the country, but it's mucho retarded as is all such childish behavior that can be found in many other places across the world. Cultural snobbery I suppose. Well, karma will get them all in the end anyway, and as long as they keep isolating themselves and snubbing everyone else, they're never going to be revered the way they'd like to be.

*factS and observations

Well lov here it is a parisian when talking to them can not find it conceivable that you would not want to live in paris they will tell you that paris is the eden of the earth. Also Germans are just about the same way. If you aren't from germany why do you bother to live why havent you jumped off london tower. Sad but true.

lol, jeez, i love how ego can just make people look like such asses 😛

anyway, teach me, teacher, you know so much!! 🙂

No lov you are the master when it come to the knowleagh of the woman. mean do not talk paint during sex how was I to know.

Hmmm... Jame's you type with an accent I think...

Phoenix, you are beginning to sound like a bigot. Keep it in perspective here, not everyone in Australia hates Americans...personally I have not come across ONE person who does. And your American friend here prob hasbn't told you about any experienced racism towards him, b/c there may not have been any.

Also, as far as your comments re: governments go....I totally LOVE your reaction..so maybe you can empathise with the majority of the IRAQ's in the fact that THEY too are pissed off and are digging their heals in, and fighting harder, in retaliation of someone forcing THIER own ideals of government upon them...maybe they TOO don't want to be 'controlled'.

I didn't say that all australians hate all americans. I said that they seem to generally harbor nasty feelings toward us. And really, I shouldn't even say that, because the only australians I've heard saying anything to that effect are you and cortica. So I should really do some research myself and get some poll numbers or something before I believe the first thing I hear. It's always better to have a wide variety of voices being heard, not just one or two. Not that I don't believe you, I'm sure you're being very truthful about the opinions of your peers, your social circle and yourself. But beyond that I'd have to see a greater number of statistics so that I'm not blindly believing whatever I hear.

And I completely agree that the Iraqis are pissed off and digging their heels in and don't want to be controlled. But America is not a terrorist threat to other countries, and as much as you might dislike bush, he isn't a dictator who murders his own people and such. It's now a matter of protecting our own people from them and protecting the Iraqi people (many, many of whom are now going to be joining us in our fight against saddam's soldiers) from him. We are also bringing in huge amounts of humanitarian aid to the people. We've taken great care to avoid civilian casualties whenever possible, and we've been very surgical so far.

oh - i think there may have been a little misinterpretation of my last post! When I said 'you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who has anything positive to say about the country' I meant there's not much support for the u.s. in terms of opinions about the country as a whole including government, cultural imperialism and possibly the american character as a part of that whole. Maybe it has something to do with australians' reactions to authority figures more than anything. There's certainly no nastiness directed towards americans such as the disneyland example and it seems to be more of an underlying resentment more than anything overt.

In regards to the backpacker i spoke to about encountering anti-american sentiments while travelling, she was referencing places she visited in asia and south america - she hadn't actually been to australia - i met her in canada. That was just a general observation on the way americans are perceived internationally.

Phoenix I think you need to travel - maybe go out and hear some of those wide and varied voices that you place importance upon.

What exactly do you mean by surgical? Is that a term you borrowed from reuters?

Americans? Its still the individuals that make the differance. In Paris years ago In the latin quarter. A group of us were dining. Two tables of americans around us. The waiter came to the first table addressed the people in french. The person in charge said something like this. What the hell you all talking boy don't you speak english. ( first off in my opine the american doesn't speak english. What is youall there is one waiter youall would be a group.) Going forward what came for the next two hours at that table was a french waiter pertending he could not speak english. Insults from the americans. A very intolerable situation. Table two a man and woman middle ages the waiter spoke to them in french the man said I am sorry I do not speak french I wish I could its a beautiful language. The waiter no problem sir I speak english. Same waiter the outher table could hear them. All through the meal the waiter had a very pleasent conversation with the man and woman. At the end of the meal the waiter took the time to shake the mans hand and kiss the womans hand. It happened. It was in the summer of 1998 I remember Den and I had stoped in Paris on the way to Gavarnie. We were going to see monets gardens.

i like the way you just threw in monet's gardens there at the end you pinnacle of culture you!

Sorry about the confusion, looks like I assumed something without finding out for sure...woops. 😛 I understand now.

Reuters...I don't actually follow Reuters. "Surgical" as I'm sure you know Cortica, is a commonly used term to describe military precision. Simply pointing out the fact that we're not laying bombs all over the place, we've done our absolute best to make sure our strikes only affect military targets and resisting soldiers. It can be difficult of course when the enemy uses mosques and hospitals and civilians to hide in and behind. And technology combined with human error does not always guarantee success in all cases. Just making the point that we're trying to minimize civilian casualties while balancing that with the necessary level of aggression we need to use in order to accomplish our military objective.

Ph, I agree with what you said. In my previous post I was merely stating an 'alternative' socialogical viewpoint, one in which I think not many have thought of. But this was just a different perspective, doesn't neccessarily mean I agree with it. James..there are arseholes everywhere...lol...Americans /French/ Aussies/ English/ Iraqui...we ALL have them. I used to work as a waitress years ago, a job I loved b/c you met so many different ppl. But I found only one race of ppl who, whenever they came in, I would refuse to serve their table. They were the Germans and they were so totally rude. I can make comment on this in an unbiased way b/c I am half German myself.

When I went to Paris in August one year. There were no French people there. They take the whole month of august off. It was really funny, actually. My family and I were out really late because of jet lag, and we decided to go to the only restaurant open, which happened to be an Indian restaurant. It was run by a British Indian. We had a long chat with him, which consisted mostly of him complaining to us about how very lazy the French are. He said he couldn't get a doctor's appointment any where in paris the entire month of august because all the French doctors were on vacation. He also complained that the French waisted his time when they went to his restaurant. He said he liked Americans, because they came hungry and wanting food, where as the French just sat around and hardly ate anything. I think he must have thought this an insult to his cooking.

Anyway, I just wanted to share my French experience, you can go back to how rudeness/stupidity/unreason/misunderstanding is a world wide trait now.

Interesting stories, my lack of worldliness and need for travel (which, by the way costs a lot of money that I don't have Cortica! lol) is nearly satiated. I'm living vicariously through you people. 😛

Yeah, the german thing suprises me, I've got tons of german heritage and I always thought the germans weren't very snobby and such, but every culture's got their thang it seems.

Phoenix Germans snobby HA! they think were they are is the only place to be but they are party animals. Bet on it, they party down. We went to a race in Badkissington once and you had to camp out the night before to get a good place to watch the race from. If you went wondering around you triped over people treetrunking all over the place.
Margon you are right about Paris in Augest its hot and a dead town. The other thing that gets me if a shop has hours posted like open at ten that means sometime in the morning maybe. The french social life is based on the meal. They get up come to work sometime in the morning they leave for lunch around two pm if they have a girlfriend they stop off for a quicky and a nap come back to work around half four or five. Knock off around half eight go get what they need for the night and go to supper it last from around half nine to three or four in the morning. Its there social life.

Cortica a pinnacle of anything HA not. We just went to see the flowers. Den is a bit of a gardener. So we went down. the time to go if you would be May. France has flower shows all over the place in May.

james lol about the Germans. sounds interesting especially since I might be going there this summer for a month to Berlin. Is "Badkissington" the real name of the city or just your interpretation of it?

ps morgan-it looks like I might owe you a gelato when I get back 😛

Oh god Gwen! I germany— Erg, just not how I would do it.

Gwen Its just my interpretation of the town but if you sound it out it is spoken that way Bad kissing ton. If you go to Germany why not come to england you could have a great time.

Oh, we're going to Englad too! Just not this year 😢

I would not think of Germans as snobby at all. And when I lived there everyone was awesome. But I found that when they travel (and maybe this occurs more so the further the distance from the homeland) but they can be rude, demanding and unsatisfied with every little thing. My German Aunt, 2 uncles, cousin have just been here visiting, and they stayed with my father (their brother). My father could not get over how frustrating they were and how rude they were (and this was FAMILY). Yet, we had my cousin stay with us a few days and found him a perfect guest. So maybe the 'rudeness' is a generational thing and the younger generation is not like that now. Keeping in mind it has been nearly 10 yrs since I waitered, so things could have changed. So James' description is probably more accurate than mine seeing as his experience is more current. Have a great trip Gwen...the chocloate is awesome!

lol, good chocolate makes the trip all by itself.

sharing time! oh joy oh joy..not.

this is a link from a radio station. a guy from Iraq escaped to America, and he is in complete support of the removal of Sadam Hussein. he is arguing an anti-war lady, it's amazing to see how she has no argument against him. she's telling a guy who is from IRAQ who escaped that "bombing and killing people is not going to bring peace and justice." and he replies "you are a joke...Sadam has killed 2 million people. there are families here in this country who lost 20 or 30 people in one day in a gas attack by Sadam Hussein. "

oh and my favorite part:

"It seems that the only focus we can have here is Sadam Hussein, and the fact is..."

"That is the focus of the war!!!"


here.
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(edited)

I tried my hardest to avoid this debate, but I can no longer constrain myself. Heck, I can't even turn on the television anymore without seeing these clueless, uninformed, embarrassing, bleeding-heart liberals holding up signs that are either obvious oxymorons, or just your basic ignorant banter. This is the face of America everyone sees, and it makes me sick. Someone has to step in on the side of reason, and that person is me. This article probably isn't even funny, but I don't care. I was just force-fed a half hour of hippie ignorance by none other than MTV. Hmm... tree-hugging, anti-war, communist dolts using the most capitalistic cable television station EVER to voice their opinion..... contradiction? Wait until you hear the rest.....



?We are only doing this for Iraqi oil"

Hey hippies, can you read a bar graph? In fact, Iraq is 6th in importing oil to the United States. We do not need Iraq's oil. In fact, their reserves are minute compared to Kuwait or Saudi Arabia. If we really wanted cheaper oil, wouldn't we step in and stop the oil-workers strikes in Nigeria and Venezuela? You know, since Venezuela imports TWICE as much oil here as Iraq. No, the only possible oil motive is to stop them from destabilizing the region, causing gas hikes. I know most of you protestors drive, what's paying a two-month gas increase during the war instead of having gas jacked up every six months when Saddam boots inspectors out and we bomb him again? No, that would make way too much sense.

(he includes a graph that shows the 2002 Top 10 Countries from which the United States Imports Oil, and the order is : Canada, Saudi Arabia, Mexico, Venezuela, Nigeria, IRAQ, United Kingdom, Norway, Angola, and Algeria. i was trying to attach it but can't for some reason..)


Two real quotes from the MTV News[Now] "special":

?I would only fight for violations of personal rights?

?There is absolutely no reason I would ever fight a war?

How about when someone points a gun at your head? Maybe they fly a plane into a building? Then would you fight? Yeah, that's what I thought. You think Saddam wouldn't give thirteen of his palaces for the chance to drop some botulin toxin on an American city? Your "personal rights" are protected every day by the same people who are making the decision to attack Iraq, which you are protesting. Your way of life is dependant upon the oil bought from the same region Iraq is threatening. Your personal rights are purchased daily, in lives, by people you never know, never hear about: agents of the government foiling terrorist plots, uncovering information about anti-American regimes, gathering intelligence data so they can prevent American deaths, stuff that isn't printed in your morning newspaper. Then the liberalists spout back "But everyone is entitled to their opinion." Yeah, but what if their opinion is "you should die"? You want to protect their free speech now? How long do you protect their speech before you endanger yourself? Tell you what, go tell Saddam yourself that

Morgan if you come to england come to canterbury you would love it I would even buy you a drink. You know this is a big deal because capricorns are cheap

LOl, thanx James! 🙂 I might just take you up on that.

I know you didn't write this Luz but I gotta say this:

As for destabilizing the region: syria is supporting Iraq, kuwait is supporting us, we don't know where suadi arabia will be in all this, Iranians hate Iraqis but they don't like us all that much now that we put them on our list of Evil countries

the Kurdish people in northern Iraq want an independent nation for themselves-but there are Kurdish people in Turky, Syria, Russia, Pakistan and Iran who would either run to the independent Kurdistan or try to make their land independent (the reason why turkey is all worries and arming)

incidentally-the kurds in Russia happen to occupy a place called Chechnya...sound familiar? It was where all that fighting over Checyna trying to gain its own independence.

Turkey may end up in civil war on two fronts: they are controlled by a majority of fundamentalist Islamics in parliament and the possibility of more Kurdish rebellions.

Pakistan has plenty of problems though their prime minister is friendly to us it has a large terrorist population and nuclear weapons-and I might add that it nearly went to war with India in the past over the ripe land of Kashmir-which is populated by the Sikhs who want their own independence like the Kurds.

Oh and Israel and Palestine are still fighting-no news there- but the moment Saddam and/or his followers can, they are going to lauch at Israel and Israel will strike back (also a nuclear power) which will bring all the Arab countries: Iran, Iraq, Palestine, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Lebanon, Syria, Bahrain, Yemen, United Arab Emirates, Jordan and some others to join in against Israel, who we will support.

Of course if war gets to this, all of europe, Australia, Canada, US, Russia, China, and some more will be involved one way or another.

There are some more adverse side affects of this war-the possibility with wars in Greece, Serbia, Kosova, Bosnia, ect but I can't quite remember how that was put together.

And Indonesia, the worlds #1 muslim country, is ruled right now by a democratic dictator and hates our guts...North Korea may attack South Korea or Japan or suicidally hit China...then we go to war with them.

sweet dreams 🙂