nice guys finish last?

NICE GUYS FINISH LAST
By: Garrett Hols

It?s amazing that markers can get girls. Actually, now that I think of it, it?s not that amazing. They are markers at heart, but to meet girls they lavish their undying love. IT?S A CHARADE. They act nice, friendly, and they listen? until they get into what they?re after. Their prey thinks they are in love with them, however when they realize what markers their predators really are, they pretend like the marker is really nice inside. The girl tries to change the marker into a nice guy, but markers will always be markers. She gets upset and goes to the nice guy to complain about the marker. But she claims to love the marker? now this is where the theory begins. She doesn?t want to look like she is easy so she wont dump the marker right away, instead she will stay with the marker. Girls are idiots. They don?t realize that the nice guy has been there all along. He never had to pretend to be a good guy to get girls because he is naturally like that. However, girls don?t see it for some reason or another. They look at the nice guy as a friend, a trusted companion to whom they can tell their sad story to about their marker boyfriend. But the nice guy isn?t THAT na?ve. He was trying to score with the girl he listens to all along. The problem is that since he is a nice guy he keeps listening. Since girls get attached to things that pay attention to them, they think of the nice guy as a friend. A FRIEND. They don?t say, ?Oh he?s hot? or ?I want to have his children? about the nice guy, they just want the emotional support. When they get the emotional support from the nice guy, they don?t need it from the marker. The nice guy gets the butter end of the stick while the marker gets all the action. I am starting to wonder if being a nice guy is really the route to take to get action? I have been down this path for all of my post-pubescent life and it has gotten me NOWHERE? at least not in the women department. Perhaps another reason why girls fall for the marker is because markers ignore the girl they are with. The women wonder, ?Why isn?t he paying attention to me?? so they explore why. They poke and prod and get closer to the marker. They start to get easier with each attempt to get closer. The marker finally says, ?I?ve let this beauty dangle long enough, time to boat this bass?. It is then he puts on his charade and the girl feels like she has won him? even thought all she has won is an marker. Once you have gone down the path as a nice guy or a ?listener? you can?t turn back. The girl will always go after the markers because there are always nice guys there to listen. Once you realize that you are a ?listener? you cant do anything about it? just pack up and close shop. There is no way you will get into her pants? ever. There is and never will be a situation where the nice guy will get the girl he has a crush on. It just doesn?t work like that. The girl wont ?come to her senses? and realize what an marker her boyfriend is like in the movies? instead she will just go after another marker, and unless you stop being a nice guy, she will never go after you. Women complain that there are no nice guys in the world. Right. They are obviously not looking hard enough because there are nice guys EVERYWHERE!!!! Girls aren?t looking for nice guys? they say they are but they?re not. They are looking for the perfect marker, but there is NO SUCH THING as the perfect marker. All in all, the nice guy gets the shaft. To all the girls out there with boyfriends that don?t treat you with respect, that don?t listen to you, and that don?t care about you I say this; look next to you. The guy that has been standing next to you the whole time is the guy you have been looking for. He is what you want your marker to be like. He knows more about you than you know about yourself? because he has listened to it all.

ok..just for a side note. a $ $ h0le is replaced by 'marker'.

-_-

luz I like that, so I am not a nice guy so what.

I read all that. Whether I want to believe it or not, there was alot (too much) that sounds all too familiar to me. A very thought provoking post.

I don't know, I seem to be atracted to guys with severe mental disorders... Any way, maybe I feel better in relationships where I can feel like I'm taking care of and/or helping my partner...

There's a funny going about, something like women meet men with issues, believing they can change them. Married years later, he's not at all the man you married..and they wonder why. Hmmm.

the solution: don't marry men with issues.

psst.. mental disorders are issues.

I said I was attracted to them, not that I was going to marry them, silly.

Speaking of ?

meaning?

Hmmm... Like my ex boyfriend. He was so insecure. Funny story. We had already broken up, but we were still pretty close. The day after he lost his virginity to his new girlfriend, he called me up at 7:20 AM the next morning, woke me up, to tell me. Unbelievable. Was just like, "Uh... that's nice John". And he goes: "What, I didn't wake you up did I?".

Just terrible.

And that other guy I was telling you about the other night, the taoist one? He's got some problems too. He's convinced that no one cares about him and wouldn't care if he lived or died... I sometimes worry about his safety (as in I worry that he might do something to harm himself).

Are you having to tread that line between telling him someone really does.. or it's not just there yet.?
I've felt very down and depressed before. I can't say alot here, because I'm sure everyone's added up whether to stay here or go, permanently.

Yeah, I know... I think it's something that crosses most peoples minds at one time or another. I don't think he's as bad as to actually do something, but still, he is as bad as to just run away with out telling anyone and none of us ever hearing from him again, which is, I think, partly what he plans on doing. Oh well though, perhaps he will find himself one day.

Hold on. Is he worth telling to stick around? All our prior conversations, etc. Commitment time. Deceison time.

I want him to keep in touch as a friend, and that's that. I may appear to be uncarring at times, but I certain people I care about and I care what happens to them. Stick around simply meaning let me know that you're still ok and you're still the person I knew before. That's all. There's nothing to decide beyond that.

It's just that he does sound interesting. As in maybe good enough as a daily basis effect.

"As in maybe good enough as a daily basis effect."

I'm not sure what you mean by that.

Sorry, I was running the boards a moment.

Only as in, he sounded like you could relate to him, that you were even considering something further, and my point.. that'd it'd be a shame if he did just up & vanish. But you know the two of you, and what's right. Daily as in see him more often, is all.

I think I see him more than any other guy friend currently, but no. It could never be a real committed relationship. Forget about him, I'm not up for that.

Dill pickle. Ah.. I mean, "deal" pickle. That's a deal.

I can't stay much longer, once again.. duty calls. Work..
I did enjoy & will look for you again.

lol... The pickle goes not unnoticed, but that was bad. Underhanded, but bad. 😛

I just thought about this from another point of view . we do finnish last.

I agree. A gentleman always would, at that.

Interesting... I have no idea what you guys are thinking of, but I hope it's not what I'm thinking. OK, I'm going to go try and clean my mind.

Morgan, it's a ladies first business.. is all.

hmm. yes u have to be really good to the ladies.

That Tate chap's a fairly astute dude, wouldn't you say, 13?

right now i have no clue what the astute means did u mean acute?
after def. i could give an answeer.

lol very funny thread

a very strang thread

Proof that nice guys don't finish last: my cousin is semi-dating a guy who is not her type at all but is really really nice to her and he bought about $ 800 worth of clothes at Saks Fifth Avenue for a party that night they had to dress up for. And this other guy who is really nice and sweet gave her money for the taxi they used and when she looked at it later it was $ 200 and later gave her $ 600 to help her for rent. See, girls will stick with nice guys 😉

ok fine bad point. go on rub it in my face.

Swank, Saks and soiree's .. are a higher orbit than I can aspire to, alas. Puttin' on the Glitz. Envy. Nice guys or not.

so he bought her things and thats considered 'nice'? ick, i would never let a man buy me my wants and my needs.

ooh, some passionate opinions flying around here.

I am suprised by your post, Parallax.

"Meanwhile if some unemployed, drunken biker guy pulled up to her door, he'd have her nine ways till Sunday."

eew, eew, eew...don't forget that with a lot of women, drunken jobless biker guy would not have them nine ways until Sunday. There are, unfortunately, also a lot of women who would get off on that sort of thing. Not this one, though.

I must say, I sense a little bit of underlying hostility in some men about spending money on a woman. What happened, did you guys spend a bunch of cash on someone and she took advantage of it or something?

I don't see much wrong with spending money on someone you like or love, as long as you're doing it because you want to, and she's not in any way taking advantage of your generosity.

yesterday i felt like i was first, today i feel like im last, tomorrow i will feel nothing.

maybe finsh last but people will rember u. that's what matters.

It's not as if we don't like unemployed drunk biker guys.. they're there to show the extremes of the playing field. It's just the carnage left in their wakes. Multiple crossed-out name tat's all over a girl's body saying "Killer", "Spike", "BossHog", etc. 'Makes it difficult if your name's like "Melvin" or "Percival".

Phoenix.. "Then go Dutch". 😛

parallex...i think we have very different ideas about relationships. if a guy tries to "make a play" at me BEFORE he shows he's a nice guy, he's going to get kicked in a very painful way.

Espernaut...LMAO @ your post. Okay, but I take issue with this whole "go dutch" thing. I have no problem doing that every now and then once I've been seeing a guy for a long time (like at least six months), and our money magically starts melding together...lol...but before that, in the courting phase, I would be a little disturbed if a guy said to me, "are you going to get the bill?"

😢

Maybe we're just really old-fashioned here or something, but most guys do most of the paying most of the time, around these parts. lol.

Phoenix, old fashioned.. is still in fashion. 🙂

Even I and Den do not go dutch after ten years. as for finnishing last . Last night she said as she walked out the door are you coming. I said no but I am breathing heavy.

Don't go on official dates much but offer to pay for some
things when I do go out.
James I really like your sense of humor.

Parallax - I understood your prior reference, making a play, grace in defeat ("with a smile") and moving on ("realistic"). Your expansion on topic was even better.

Regarding Money - Just for interest (all)- I'd once asked my parents "why so~and~so didn't like me, etc.. My mom replied, when a man gets older, they call him "distinguished", "handsome" or "wise". A woman gets called "crone", "witch" or "matronly". Her intention was to point out the differences in perception, and not begrudge the flurry of guys (competitors), need for lots of cash, etc, that I was facing. Mom's a smart ole' bird. Did it help me really? Not a bit. Could not get a cash advance from that woman to save my life.

Errgh.. Can't help it. Reasons for disconceptions (is that a word?) Women get hairdo's, manicure, pedicure,"make-overs".. etc. Guys.. buy a comb. 🙂 Tongue in Cheek. Do not contract out the All Femme Assasin Syndicate on me, k?

Parallax, I can't really explain why your post suprised me (the second one suprised me even more)...I suppose it's because I thought that you thought differently than that. I don't know why (blasted be all preconcieved notions! I'm learning; I'm learning). I find your Holden McNeil reference to be interesting (and not just because Chasing Amy is like almost my very favorite movie ever)...because, in the movie, he also pays for everything. Watch closely. All their little excursions, dinners, etc...in fact one of his lines in the movie (said in a joking sort of manner) is, "are you ever going to pick up the check?" Which, I found hilarious. Only because it was a joke. 😉 And I'm in love with Ben's character in that movie...but that's beside the point, I'm getting off track. lol.

Look here...perhaps the real reason why women still "cling" to "Old Fashioned Values" (and not all of them do, my apologies for being one that does...*jeeze*....lol) is because these days, there is such a lack of men who do anything chivalrous or polite or old-fashioned or courtship-like, that we are starving for one who actually is/does. I'm not sure exactly why some of us (most of us, if they were being honest...women, that is) have a need for that sort of thing. Maybe it's biological, maybe it has something to do with wanting to "mate" with someone who can provide, who wants to provide, who is going to take care of us in some way or another. I really don't know. Now, there are *definitely* women who take advantage of men who spend money on them. Definitely. But the majority, I believe, do not. It's not like we even expect it. Well, maybe we expect it sometimes, in certain situations...especially in the beginning of a relationship. But, it's simply a nice, decent, chivalrous way to be. I suppose if you're a man who does not see the point in being that way, and simply see your pocketbook shrinking, then you might have an issue with all of that. I don't know. It seems like it's all numbers and figures to you...you even mentioned parking expenses (which is a foreign concept to me because most of our parking here is free...lol)...but, parking expenses, does that really anger you to pay for parking? She's in the car with you, right? Do you pay per person or something? lol, I'm getting off track again. Anyway, for the record, I do not (what is that Missy Elliot song??) "get my hairrrr did, get my nails done" etc., on my boyfriend's dime. There have been a few occasions where he (speaking about my recent ex of 4 years) *offered* and *insisted* on paying for these things, and I mean insisted to the point of argument (that would be the more generous side of a Leo), BUT, I never asked him to, and tried to decline these offers. But it almost seemed to me like it made him feel good to do these things for me. Which is, I suppose, why I'm confused. Do guys fake being happy to pay the bill(s)?? Are you really thinking, "I hate you, you undeserving cookiemonster"— Now, interesting fact, he got a lot cheaper as time went on. Even when he had a great job that he was making a lot of money at. Interesting. Laziness, or the Real Man?

Espernaut, your mom definitely sounds like a smart cookie.

P.S., I so do *not* get makeovers. lol. I can make myself over, thank you very much...

There is one point that I believe to be quite pertinent to this conversation that nobody has brought up...we've all seen 40 Days & 40 Nights...and the reason I bring this up is because of that line in the movie...ie. women have the power...!!!

Hmmm...

Women don't so much have the power as they do the honey pot and us men love getting sticky. Most men will do a lot of things they wouldn't normally do for a taste of some honey and that includes shelling out the cash which often dries up as Phoenix suggests after the relationship is in relaxed and "mature" mode six months or what ever down the line bacause he is no longer shy or scared to tell her to pay her own way...

I quite agree with Parallax...women are increasingly demanding equality in all areas of society including pay cheques and I see nothing wrong with that at all...if you can do the job you should be rewarded for it...that is only fair and logically right...which brings me to my next point...

If you deem it nice/proper/sweet or what ever for a man to spend money on you is not fair and logically right to assume that you are basing your interests and opinions of that man on money and not on that man himself...after all...what is it you are on a date with...the man or his wallet and where and what it can get you...?

I am in total disagreement with that and echo Parallax in that once I've dated a girl and found her to be really cool, genuine, funny, or what ever...basically that I am keen on her and she on me...then yeah...no probs...I'll spend a bit...pressies, flowers, undies...little things now and then to show appreciation for her...

After all...it takes two people who want to be with each other to have a good time...not money...money can help if you have it but it is soooooo not a pre-requisit...!!!

Oops...forgot the makeup topic that has been raised...!

Laddies...do you wear makeup for him or for yourselves...?

Everyone is allowed to be themselves and do as they please, I have nothing wrong with that and yes sometimes you can see a girl has made and taken a lot of effort to look great for you and for herself as the case may be by spending hours putting on makeup but for what...

Why are we so into wearing masks in the world today...why do we cover up who and what we actually are...and even in certain cases believe it to be better...how...how is hiding better than the real thing...(but then some believe the truth hurts...hmmm)...—
You know...unless you do it for yourself or him because he likes it...what is makeup for except to cover up and present a false image of the REAL you...—

I've never understood it...maybe it's me and my beach bum youth where all the beautiful girls my mates and I were chasing after were more interested in barrel roles and 360's out in the surf with us...

Barrel roles or not...they never put on an inch of makeup and they were and still are some of the most beautiful and stunningly attractive women I know...natuaral beauty...not something out of a bottle that fades with the sunrise...—

i nebver thought i'd see the day when durrie would quote from a teen sex movie. lol

and, my example with money was also based on the fact that my cousin is dirt poor and the guy she's with is richer than i could probably guess. So putting those two things together, him offering to buy her things is nice and sweet because its something he can do and she can't. It is a measure of his character that, since he is very able, to not offer to pay for dinner and leave her scrapping for money would be rude. That's all my original point was, other than this situation I agree pretty much with you durrie.

English women were very little make up Den uses almost nun she uses lip gloss thats it.