Este8
@Este8
12 Years1,000+ Posts
Comments: 0 · Posts: 1355 · Topics: 6
why have blacks reached the point (Page 3)
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And we're not up in arms over our government's lying (NSA spying) spying and torturing innocent people. The vast majority of people we scoop up and throw in jail with no charged are innocent. This is why we have (only we don't) the rule of law. Amazing what people get upset over and what they choose to ignore.
Posted by GetMistedPosted by CapTennPosted by salmonpizzaPosted by CapTennPosted by salmonpizza
CapTenn, do you believe that all non-citizens should not have constitutional rights? Or just terrorists?
Non-citizens should not enjoy Constitutional rights, terrorist or otherwise.
Illegal immigrants deserve human rights, however, whilst terrorists deserve no mercy.
terrorists deserve no mercy. this I ratify. Fuck em, let's watch them burn.
However, the problem comes when we make assumptions that someone is a terrorist, and subject them to inhumane treatment on that premise, only to find out that they weren't terrorists to begin with. :/
and as we all should know by now, that's the story of gitmo.
Oh well. Shit happens.
Sometimes you have to break a few eggs............
I don't condone the killing of cops in cold blood.. But in the same light of which you speak, the same could be said in regards to the two officers killed in NYC.click to expand
No, it couldn't.
International terrorists are not American citizens.
Not sure why the difference is hard to understand.
Posted by Este8
And we're not up in arms over our government's lying (NSA spying) spying and torturing innocent people. The vast majority of people we scoop up and throw in jail with no charged are innocent. This is why we have (only we don't) the rule of law. Amazing what people get upset over and what they choose to ignore.
+1
^^^ No, I wouldn't.
To catch international terrorists, I condone breaking a few eggs.
I've been bent over by the cops myself (I've read your history in other threads), yet I don't share your hard feelings (to the same degree anyway).
Do you think the execution of those 2 cops has quelled any hard feelings in the community? Evened the score? Will the issue die now?
The answer to all 3 questions is hell no. So what did it accomplish? Harsher treatment of the public is what. Thanks a lot.
To catch international terrorists, I condone breaking a few eggs.
I've been bent over by the cops myself (I've read your history in other threads), yet I don't share your hard feelings (to the same degree anyway).
Do you think the execution of those 2 cops has quelled any hard feelings in the community? Evened the score? Will the issue die now?
The answer to all 3 questions is hell no. So what did it accomplish? Harsher treatment of the public is what. Thanks a lot.
Posted by CapTenn
^^^ No, I wouldn't.
To catch international terrorists, I condone breaking a few eggs.
I've been bent over by the cops myself (I've read your history in other threads), yet I don't share your hard feelings (to the same degree anyway).
Do you think the execution of those 2 cops has quelled any hard feelings in the community? Evened the score? Will the issue die now?
The answer to all 3 questions is hell no. So what did it accomplish? Harsher treatment of the public is what. Thanks a lot.
See, but this is what you're NOT doing. You're not extending the same criticism to yourself.
Do you know how effective it was to torture? Do you know what was accomplished by breaking THOSE "eggs"?
Do you think that the torture of innocent people quelled any hard feelings the middle-east might have towards America? Did it even the score? Did it solve the problem or radical Islam?
The answer to all those three questions is no. We didn't get ANY valuable information we were hoping to in our abuse of human rights. So what did it accomplish?
It made us into the monsters we were hoping to catch.
Just a sec- we already were.
the epic fail is the lack of self-awareness.
As I said, it's easy to ignore one's OWN cognitive biases while pointing out those of the opposition.
As I said, it's easy to ignore one's OWN cognitive biases while pointing out those of the opposition.
Posted by tiziani
What you have it the classic Kantian view of salmonpizza vs the utilitarian sentiment of CapTenn.
I'm more of a Kantist myself.
This is the most offended I've been on dxp. having any lines drawn between my views and Immanual Kunt. 😭
Posted by salmonpizzaPosted by CapTenn
^^^ No, I wouldn't.
To catch international terrorists, I condone breaking a few eggs.
I've been bent over by the cops myself (I've read your history in other threads), yet I don't share your hard feelings (to the same degree anyway).
Do you think the execution of those 2 cops has quelled any hard feelings in the community? Evened the score? Will the issue die now?
The answer to all 3 questions is hell no. So what did it accomplish? Harsher treatment of the public is what. Thanks a lot.
See, but this is what you're NOT doing. You're not extending the same criticism to yourself.
Do you know how effective it was to torture? Do you know what was accomplished by breaking THOSE "eggs"?
Do you think that the torture of innocent people quelled any hard feelings the middle-east might have towards America? Did it even the score? Did it solve the problem or radical Islam?
The answer to all those three questions is no. We didn't get ANY valuable information we were hoping to in our abuse of human rights. So what did it accomplish?
It made us into the monsters we were hoping to catch.
Just a sec- we already were.click to expand
IDGAF about the middle-east. I especially DGAF about Islam.
Outside of these U.S. borders....IDGAF.
Now, proceed with that knowledge.
Oh okay. So if people kidnapped American cops and took them outside of US borders to kill them, then that would okay, right?
Posted by salmonpizza
Oh okay. So if people kidnapped American cops and took them outside of US borders to kill them, then that would okay, right?
No, they are Americans.
USA and our allies = I care.
Everyone else = don't care.
I cannot be any clearer than that.
Posted by tiziani
Have you seen what the Somali pirates and ex fishermen are doing to restore balance to the stateless and powerless Gulf of Aden on their shores? They do not murder anybody, nor are they part of war. They just keep it at armed robbery.
I assumed this was flippancy rather than a serious proposition.
Please explain what you are suggesting.
Posted by CapTennPosted by salmonpizza
Oh okay. So if people kidnapped American cops and took them outside of US borders to kill them, then that would okay, right?
No, they are Americans.
USA and our allies = I care.
Everyone else = don't care.
I cannot be any clearer than that.click to expand
Oh, I figured that was the case. That's representative of the right in general. I just wanted to make sure I understood correctly.
Posted by salmonpizzaPosted by CapTennPosted by salmonpizza
Oh okay. So if people kidnapped American cops and took them outside of US borders to kill them, then that would okay, right?
No, they are Americans.
USA and our allies = I care.
Everyone else = don't care.
I cannot be any clearer than that.
Oh, I figured that was the case. That's representative of the right in general. I just wanted to make sure I understood correctly.click to expand
My political leanings are definitely to the conservative side, although I'm not a Republican.
They make me almost as sick as the democrats.
Posted by GetMistedPosted by CapTennPosted by salmonpizzaPosted by CapTenn
^^^ No, I wouldn't.
To catch international terrorists, I condone breaking a few eggs.
I've been bent over by the cops myself (I've read your history in other threads), yet I don't share your hard feelings (to the same degree anyway).
Do you think the execution of those 2 cops has quelled any hard feelings in the community? Evened the score? Will the issue die now?
The answer to all 3 questions is hell no. So what did it accomplish? Harsher treatment of the public is what. Thanks a lot.
See, but this is what you're NOT doing. You're not extending the same criticism to yourself.
Do you know how effective it was to torture? Do you know what was accomplished by breaking THOSE "eggs"?
Do you think that the torture of innocent people quelled any hard feelings the middle-east might have towards America? Did it even the score? Did it solve the problem or radical Islam?
The answer to all those three questions is no. We didn't get ANY valuable information we were hoping to in our abuse of human rights. So what did it accomplish?
It made us into the monsters we were hoping to catch.
Just a sec- we already were.
IDGAF about the middle-east. I especially DGAF about Islam.
Outside of these U.S. borders....IDGAF.
Now, proceed with that knowledge.
What about Middle-east people who claim citizenship in the US, or those that practice Islam in the states? Do you give a fuck about them?
What about middle-easteners or those that practice Islam in the states.. And also serve on police forces or in the US military? Do you give a fuck about them?click to expand
How many times, and ways, do I have to say it?
'Merica! Woo hoo! 'Merica's allies abroad! Woo hoo!
If you are a U.S. citizen, I want you to have the same rights as myself, no matter your race, religion, creed, sex, etc, etc, etc. ............
Can we stop now?
Posted by capricornmoon
@CapTenn, your beliefs are typical white sentiments. If it ain't white, it ain't right. You dgaf about Muslims, but Muslims and Muslim relations affect your life whether you like it or not, gas and oil prices for instance. We are all affected by each other and the problems in our society whether we care about those groups of races, or not. Muslims may or may not be peaceful, but neither are Americans.
Well, I am white so.....
Furthermore, I don't know how much more fair I can get than this:
'Merica! Woo hoo! 'Merica's allies abroad! Woo hoo!
If you are a U.S. citizen, I want you to have the same rights as myself, no matter your race, religion, creed, sex, etc, etc, etc. ............
Not sure where you get, "If it ain't white, it ain't right" from that ^^^^.
As fair as it gets.
Posted by capricornmoon
So being a U.S citizen is your personal moral code for treating others the same as you would treat yourself? So if he or she is a Mexican, African, Asian, Carribean green card holder (non U.S. citizen)then he or she should be treated differently.
Yep, typical white sentiments.
Sure. Typical white.
I understand that has a negative connotation these days, but I don't buy into the white guilt game.
I am fair to all, and that's all I could ask anyone to be towards me. I can live with that.
Posted by tizianiPosted by aquapiscescusp
Hate always leads to disaster. It's never solved anything now or ever. It's easier to succumb to though.
I don't believe that's true. There are cultures where hatred is considered a virtue and the right and proper reaponse to certain events, and they've gotten along just fine.click to expand
What cultures? Somewhere deep in the bush?
Posted by KVZZMIR11
Its the women that do the MOST hating...and they are RUTHLESS about it.
What are you talking about? Who commits the most crimes, men or women?
Posted by tizianiPosted by aquapiscescuspPosted by tizianiPosted by aquapiscescusp
Hate always leads to disaster. It's never solved anything now or ever. It's easier to succumb to though.
I don't believe that's true. There are cultures where hatred is considered a virtue and the right and proper reaponse to certain events, and they've gotten along just fine.
What cultures? Somewhere deep in the bush?
Virtue ethics is present right from Aristotle's time all the way through to democracies in the early 20th century until it died out temporarily and lived on in the East in countries you see named above.
And it's not completely gone in the West. Hatred is virtue ethics is considered the right and appropriate response to people who cause malicious and unjust acts of harm towards others.
Prolongued hatred has never been shown to be a good thing.
Even you yourself posted the other day your initial reaction to the murders in Australia was anger. Deny hatre and it's denying all sorts of natural emotions that are worthy of being considered when it's time for action.click to expand
Yes of course anger... But deep rooted hatred is different IMO and it festers you know?
Posted by munchykin
In the US, people have pretty much no way to have any real say when it comes to the police.
If a business is doing things that upset people, they can organize a boycott or generate enough negative press to hurt their business. Or they can start trends and movements that support better actions.
If it's a politician, people can theoreticaly influence this through voting or impeachment.
But our tax dollars go to the police whether we like to or not. We don't get to participate in any process that would even potentially regulate how much power they have.
When it comes to peaceful and effective ways to address the issue of the police's limitless power, well...there really is no option for the people.
This is dangerous for both civilians and the police. Dangerous for civilians because it leaves police power unchecked; and dangerous for police officers themselves because if people are desperate enough to get their message across...
Great post.
+1
There are options, but they're ... ehhh.
**Who is Guarding the Guardians.
Congress passed and enacted the VCCLEA into law in 1994.
Title XXI of the legislation, 42 U.S.C. ?? 14141, made it unlawful for state
and local law enforcement officers to engage in a pattern or practice of conduct
that deprives persons of rights protected by the Constitution or laws of the United
States.[58] This legislation responded to a judicially imposed bar on individual
victims?? standing to sue for equitable relief.[59] Title XXI authorizes the Attorney
General to bring civil action against police departments engaged in a pattern or practice
of discrimination.[60] Given the severe limitations on private parties?? ability to seek
relief prior to 1994, the VCCLEA significantly expanded the available legal remedies to
address systemic police misconduct.[61]
..........
There's more to it, of course-- and so much of it seems futile.
But the link does give some history, as well as the (complicated)
options for redress for citizens.
Apparently, it has been successful to a degree, but I agree that
CLEARLY... there should be better and more streamlined options
available for us.
Posted by tizianiPosted by aquapiscescuspPosted by tizianiPosted by aquapiscescuspPosted by tizianiPosted by aquapiscescusp
Hate always leads to disaster. It's never solved anything now or ever. It's easier to succumb to though.
I don't believe that's true. There are cultures where hatred is considered a virtue and the right and proper reaponse to certain events, and they've gotten along just fine.
What cultures? Somewhere deep in the bush?
Hatred is virtue ethics is considered the right and appropriate response to people who cause malicious and unjust acts of harm towards others.
Prolongued hatred has never been shown to be a good thing.
Yes of course anger... But deep rooted hatred is different IMO and it festers you know?
Agreed.click to expand
I have a deep rooted hatred for sex offenders who pray on children. deep, deep hatred and that fuels me in my career. It's balanced with the love I have for kids but it wouldn't be as strong or maybe not even exist if it wasn't for my hatred.
actions = consequences. you kill and intimidate enough innocent people and there'll be a backlash whether it fits within your moral code or not.
this is an epic thread.
thank you to all the hypocrites with their fingers in their ears for flagging the first one
Posted by tiziani
There's a lot of evidence out there that hatred over a long period of time causes someone to feel fear and disconnection nonetheless.
sure, you're right. i have fear and disconnection towards that which I hate. I wouldn't want a felling of love and connection towards those who sexually abuse children, that would be ridiculous. If a person took accountability for those actions and took steps to reform, well then we can move on...
but if someone continues to do the thing that I hate with justification and zero accountability my feelings will stay the same.
just like people would have a fear and feeling of disconnection towards those who kill and intimidate them. If the actions changed I believe the sentiment would also
Posted by GetMisted
Tamir Rice and Akai Gurley were American citizens also, killed in cold blood, by officers who considered their life and rights, more important than the people they gunned down.
Do you not consider that a cowardly act?
One of these boys was shot in the ass from a police officer's gun that discharged accidently admittingly by the police officers on the scene and the police officer whose gun discharged.
The other kid was holding up, LATER to be identified as a FAKE GUN.
Which part is cowardly here?
*chest not ass...
*pellet gun
*pellet gun
Posted by GetMisted
The police are brandishing a "With us or against us" mentality.
If they are not careful.. That's exactly what they will get. And I'm not sure if you're aware or not, but the police in this country are out numbered 500 to 1.
Let's look at the ratio you attempt to portray here^^
There are 8 million people in NYC. Only 26 thousand people protested, some of which became violent.
To threaten violence and praise a coward who executed two police officers with those numbers is a bit naive and pretty dense don't you think? Not to mention the silent majority who will back up the police officers in a heartbeat who wish to have and live in a law abiding peaceful society.
Posted by MontgomeryPosted by munchykin
In the US, people have pretty much no way to have any real say when it comes to the police.
If a business is doing things that upset people, they can organize a boycott or generate enough negative press to hurt their business. Or they can start trends and movements that support better actions.
If it's a politician, people can theoreticaly influence this through voting or impeachment.
But our tax dollars go to the police whether we like to or not. We don't get to participate in any process that would even potentially regulate how much power they have.
When it comes to peaceful and effective ways to address the issue of the police's limitless power, well...there really is no option for the people.
This is dangerous for both civilians and the police. Dangerous for civilians because it leaves police power unchecked; and dangerous for police officers themselves because if people are desperate enough to get their message across...
click to expand
Great post.
+1
There are options, but they're ... ehhh.
**Who is Guarding the Guardians.
Congress passed and enacted the VCCLEA into law in 1994.
Title XXI of the legislation, 42 U.S.C. ?? 14141, made it unlawful for state
and local law enforcement officers to engage in a pattern or practice of conduct
that deprives persons of rights protected by the Constitution or laws of the United
States.[58] This legislation responded to a judicially imposed bar on individual
victims?? standing to sue for equitable relief.[59] Title XXI authorizes the Attorney
General to bring civil action against police departments engaged in a pattern or practice
of discrimination.[60] Given the severe limitations on private parties?? ability to seek
relief prior to 1994, the VCCLEA significantly expanded the available legal remedies to
address systemic police misconduct.[61]
..........
There's more to it, of course-- and so much of it seems futile.
But the link does give some history, as well as the (complicated)
options for redress for citizens.
Apparently, it has been successful to a degree, but I agree that
CLEARLY... there should be better and more streamlined options
availa
^^got cut off...This does not cover those who break the law, are told they are under arrest and resist or fight that arrest and authority. The police officers who have to endure this are just as likely to be injured or killed when a fight goes down. (and there are plenty who have) If Brown had gotten the cop's gun unholstered, (which was the first thing Brown went for in the struggle and after punching the cop three times in the head, I guarantee you the cop would be dead instead of him.
Everyone in this country has rights until you dismiss and break our laws. Are there a few bad apples nationwide in the police forces? Yes. Did two cops sitting in their car in their patrol car on duty with guns holstered deserve to have their heads blown off execution style ? So yea...now every police force in America are on high alert, and ready for the next coward's attempt at an execution. If someone is stupid enough to try...well, I guess we'll see some more protests. Protests for WHAT?
Everyone in this country has rights until you dismiss and break our laws. Are there a few bad apples nationwide in the police forces? Yes. Did two cops sitting in their car in their patrol car on duty with guns holstered deserve to have their heads blown off execution style ? So yea...now every police force in America are on high alert, and ready for the next coward's attempt at an execution. If someone is stupid enough to try...well, I guess we'll see some more protests. Protests for WHAT?
How about we hold our government accountable for torturing innocent people? The Torture Report confirmed what we all already know - torture is not a viable way to gain intel and there's no intel gained from torturing according to our government's own report. We want to hold citizens who do not follow the law accountable. Why not our government? Where's our anger over that. And spying on us and LYING to us about it. SHM.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/22/opinion/prosecute-torturers-and-their-bosses.html?_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/22/opinion/prosecute-torturers-and-their-bosses.html?_r=0
Posted by LetltB
^^got cut off...This does not cover those who break the law, are told they are under arrest and resist or fight that arrest and authority.
It isn't really about that.
It's about legitimate complaints from citizens who
actually were victims of police misconduct.
I just thought it was an aspect of the debate that
hadn't been addressed-- and should be.
The Michael Brown case was pretty cut and dried, imo.
So, yeah...
Posted by LetltB
The police officers who have to endure this are just as likely to be injured or killed when a fight goes down.(and there are plenty who have)
If Brown had gotten the cop's gun unholstered, (which was the first thing Brown went for in the struggle and after punching the cop three times in the head, I guarantee you the cop would be dead instead of him.
Everyone in this country has rights until you dismiss and break our laws. Are there a few bad apples nationwide in the police forces? Yes. Did two cops sitting in their car in their patrol car on duty with guns holstered deserve to have their heads blown off execution style ? So yea...now every police force in America are on high alert, and ready for the next coward's attempt at an execution. If someone is stupid enough to try...well, I guess we'll see some more protests. Protests for WHAT?click to expand
I've said it before... and I don't disagree with anything you've said, here ^^^.
co-sign the last two posts
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