Being Fickle in a Relationship...

I recently got back in contact with a friend of mine and we started discussing relationships. We've known each other for four years but fell out of touch. When we last talked, he was still with a woman he's been dating for over two years. Before that, this guy was constantly in and out of relationships. I asked him how things were going with her and he said great. She's helped him a lot through his financial and personal problems and meant a great deal to him. He was telling me how after years of not being in the church, she started going back and all the wonderful things she's done. So I asked him the obvious question, when are you gonna put a ring on it? His response? " I dont know." I asked why. "Well," he said; "She's just not romantic enough." My Scorpio in Mars, Sag passion, and Libra fairness all came to bear on his Leo ego. I calmly but bluntly said, "Dude?" " What the hell is your problem?" "You're 46." "After all of your gripes and moans about women being this and that, you find a woman that took you in when you had no place to stay, helped you straighten out your finances, is a wonderful mother to your kids in your own words, helped you get your business off the ground, has gone back to church, all without a real commitment from you in the form of marriage, and your problem is she's not romantic enough?" He said, "we'll, she's tried but it's just not her." "It's something I want." I said, "you've known this about her for two years!" "She's given you her all and you're still not satisfied?!" I was quickly reminded of the real reason why we fell out of touch. That's just...wrong.

Fellas, it is this exact reason why women are pissed at us. While women pull this too, it's still up to us to lead. Maybe if we start doing right by them, they'll start doing right by us. Ladies and gentlemen, your thoughts and comments...

I think you've said it all Bs.

She was obviously 'romantic enough' to give him somewhere to live and be a support person, but it seems she is not quite romantic enough to marry😢

What. The. Fcuk——?


If she wasn't "romantic enough" why did he stay for TWO FREAKIN YEARS———?? FFS

hes a user plain and simple and probably doesnt have a clue what love really is.. Probably most of his past relationships were screwed up because she wasn't romantic enough or wasn't this or that any BS excuse to use them and leave them when he was done

Wow, what a crock of shit.

You have stated a relationship from your perspective .. which is just gossip btw, since you have no first hand knowledge into the dynamics of the relationship, and have presented it to us, according to YOUR beliefs which hold no truth.


Just because two people are together, doesn't mean they have to get married.


There's no indication that she is being used by him, since she isn't speaking .. and you are not her voice.


If she is happy, and if she is content, and he is content with the terms of the relationship .. then it doesn't matter what the fuck you think about what he should or should not do according to your standards.

And furthermore, what a bunch of douchebags the responser are in here who chimmed in about either of those two persons characters .... considering nobody in here knows the truth, only your take on it as an observer.


seriously ... people actually said things about character of people to whom has never spoken about the real situation?




:::: shakes head ::::


petty gossipers are fucking douchebags

Nobody has even remotely suggested you aren't free to state whatever it is you want to state ... freedom of speech wasn't in question.


No matter how you attempt to change the point I made into it being that I suggested you don't have freedom of speech only goes to prove that you are one of the douchebags

I'll preface my comments with some background information.

Length of Friendship: 5 years.
Length of current relationship: Almost Three
His belief and wanting marriage : yes
Her wanting marriage and letting him know in clear, unmistakeable terms: yes

One could argue that the fore mentioned information is only supplied to benefit my argument. What is true is that all information given is ultimately second hand because the other party isnt present to give their side of the story.

P-Angel, what baffles me is that you bash people for that which you do yourself. You chide me for "allegedly" imposing my views of marriage without knowing exactly what they are. Thus, you're assuming. But yet, in the "Relationships Should Be Contracts" thread created by you, you constantly argue about two people entering into an agreement during the courtship phase. Imposing your views. Ironically, that is what marriage is as defined by man. A legal contract that one can "sue" on in civil court alleging that one or both parties broke that contract.

You bash one side or the other, giving your opinion based on your feelings without knowledge of the missing pieces. Your opinions are based on which ever the way the wind is blowing that day. In essence, while you make valid points, they're one sided and based on your views. Where's the fairness. I'm curious as to how that makes you morally superior or better off. You can't really criticize others for that in which you also participate. I guess, it's one of the great mysteries of life...why people even do it. Along with Stonehenge and alien sightings. My post is also one sided. From my friend's girlfriend side in an effort to show him the pattern he keeps following and the gift he's been given...again. I don't have all the facts, but I am in a much better position than you are to give my opinions and make a case. I sincerely apologize to all Leos out there. I didn't mean to blanket all of you. Once again, I apologize.

The defense rests...

Posted by ellessque
are you absolutely positive you are a sag?

Lol, why do you ask? It's ok if you don't agree with my post.

Posted by SweetLibra
I don't know if I would call this situation being fickle. I think he saw an opportunity and took advantage of it. He used her. She helped him get back on his feet and this is how he repays her. He probably never intended on staying with her for the long run to begin with. She took care of him and now he's not sure. How much more confirmation do you need? She poured all of that love and care into him and the reason why he doesn't want to be with her is because she isn't romantic? Was she not romantic before she fixed his finance and all that good stuff she did for him. She isn't romantic or she ain't putting it down in the bedroom like he wants her to? Why doesn't he put in as much effort as she did him and create romance within the relationship?

See now that he's gotten himself together (with her help mind you), he feels he has more options and wants to explore them. He may not have said that exactly because he knows how douchey it will make him look. Poor girl. She's going to be crushed if it doesn't work out. You don't put that kind of time and effort into someone you don't love. He probably will never find someone else willing to do those kinds of things for him. He should thank his lucky stars he has her.

I agree, but I wouldn't necessarily call him a user. He does contribute in his relationships, but he usually gets far more than what he gives. So, it's not totally one sided. Its why I say he's fickle. He's like that in business dealings. If any little thing doesn't go his way or he doesn't get all of what he wants, he loses interest or his affections for that person lessen.

Posted by rachelsnow12
P-Angel, everyone is entitled to state a relationship from their perspective as is everyone entitled to an opinion. Who is anyone to question truth according to another person's beliefs? It is very clear that the story is one sided and is from his perspective, he isn't trying to withhold that information from us. He is simply asking what our thoughts are, based on the information he has provided to us, and I believe we are all free to respond how we wish, and are all very aware that there are always two sides to a story. I thought that his post was written rather well, there was no name calling or bashing of the individual, just his point of view from what he knows.

You are calling those who have responded names, when they are only being helpful and offering their thoughts to the poster which he has requested. Perhaps if you responded in a more polite manner or one that wasn't so attacking and offensive, in my opinion, you could open people's eyes to seeing things from your perspective, which is the whole point of these boards.

I do see your side and get the point you are trying to make, but what a poor way of trying to get it across, in my opinion, and because that is how I feel... it is truth, and no one can question that.

Thank you for your comments. They are appreciated.

Yours too 25th

Posted by ellessque

Posted by beautifulsoul74

Posted by ellessque
are you absolutely positive you are a sag?

Lol, why do you ask? It's ok if you don't agree with my post.

I do agree with your post. I just can't believe you agree in your post. 🙂

click to expand

Lmao, of course I agree with my post. I like that you agree. So well just agree that we both agree 😉. Are we Sags not known to agree with our own posts?

Posted by ellessque

Posted by seraph
Apparently, marriage is the only "real" form of commitment.

Apparently.

i don't believe that to be the issue. both parties believe in marriage as their end game....he simply doesn't want to marry "her" because she's not romantic enough....so he holds out for something "better" but yet takes advantage of all the things he cherry picks.

click to expand

We both agree lol

You'd be pleasantly surprised at what else is under there...one just has to be willing to look 😉 so much for stereotypes...

Posted by beautifulsoul74

The defense rests...

Which of course is you talking out of your ass because you can't handle the fact that it's been pointed out that you're gossiping.

I either talk in general terms, about nobody specifically .. or .. I talk to a person and critisize them specifically, rather than jumping on thier bandwagon of bashing the person they are mad at.


The people who matter get that.

The people who don't want me to point out their personal accontibility, would rather that I join in on the person bashing who isn't present to speak for themselves .. they are the only ones who think like you do.


because you aren't able to tell the difference.



Like I said, you're just gossiping about other people, and no legitimate positioning to speak on the behalf of either of them. If they are happy and content with the terms of their relationship, then it's none of your fucking business, nor anyone in here to talk about it.

The only person we can address here are the people able to speak for themselves .... and it looks like you aren't a good friend at all to him, considering you think you should impose your standards onto him. You're pretty much just a douchebag

Posted by P-Angel

Posted by beautifulsoul74

The defense rests...

Which of course is you talking out of your ass because you can't handle the fact that it's been pointed out that you're gossiping.

I either talk in general terms, about nobody specifically .. or .. I talk to a person and critisize them specifically, rather than jumping on thier bandwagon of bashing the person they are mad at.


The people who matter get that.

The people who don't want me to point out their personal accontibility, would rather that I join in on the person bashing who isn't present to speak for themselves .. they are the only ones who think like you do.


because you aren't able to tell the difference.



Like I said, you're just gossiping about other people, and no legitimate positioning to speak on the behalf of either of them. If they are happy and content with the terms of their relationship, then it's none of your fucking business, nor anyone in here to talk about it.

The only person we can address here are the people able to speak for themselves .... and it looks like you aren't a good friend at all to him, considering you think you should impose your standards onto him. You're pretty much just a douchebag

click to expand

Like I said before, you participate in the same "gossip" by posting on these boards whether it's to an individual or group. Whether I'm a good friend or not is subjective and open to interpretation. Once again, you've given "your side and opinion" which you're entitled to do. A side note though, he's approached me for advice/venting before about this and previous relationships. So, he made it my budiness. But honestly, you're almost twenty years my senior but are speaking to me and others like....well I need not say more. Simply put, you're coming off as emotional and irrational arguing over behavior and scenarios in which you freely participate, even know by stating your opinion and "gossiping" in this very thread. But I digress, it pointless. You simply want attention and you're trying to keep the discussion going by trying to insult me. Say what you want. Express yourself. Free speech is such a wonderful thing...

Posted by harry99
Dude "ROMANCE" wtf um I thought guys had a vendetta against "romance" smh. Wow see this is the kind of guy that ends up on the news.
He's 46 and doesn't want to get married cuz she's not "romantic enough", see he just refuses to grow up. I'm sure as far as he's concerned no woman is "perfect" enough for him. He'll probably dump her find someone else and then say "oh I can't marry her cuz her toenails aren't cut just the way I like" I mean seriously. What is going on right now. Omg can we have the Age Of Taurus back. Where's the ability to commit.

Whatever.

.

There's still romantic guys out there, including myself. Personally, I couldn't pass up a good woman even if she wasn't romantic. But its not really about the romance that he's not getting, it's the 90% of the pie that he is getting. That's what's so tragic about it. I see this so often.

Posted by Theultra79
I think he IS a user. As soon as you begin staying in a relationship with someone, knowing you don't want a future with them, you begin using them. unless they don't want a future with you either. In which case, you're both just wasting each others time, IF what you BOTH really want is to be married.

we need like buttons.

Honestly Ultra, I'm starting to agree...with your assessment ...and we do need like buttons lol.

Posted by seraph

Apparently, marriage is the only "real" form of commitment.

Apparently.

Closed minds think so, apparantly

Comes back to what my mother in law use to always say...

Why buy the cow if the milk comes free?

Posted by sweethearts

Why buy the cow if the milk comes free?

That sort of thinking only adds insult to the injury in this sort of situation! It's bad enough that the guy is making up stupid excuses to bail out of a commitment, but to suggest he's doing it simply because, to him, the woman is simply a provider... That just pisses the hell out of me!
Anyway, I get it that there still are a lot of people out there who think like that. And I think it's a self-feeding sort of bull. Women who DON'T think of themselves as the provider/ "the cow" have no problem offering whatever it is they are willing to offer in a relationship without the official commitment of a marriage (mind you, I believe marriage is by no means the only form of commitment, but that's beside the point in this case). Whereas men who think of women as providers of whatever (hence, "cows") have no problem taking advantage of the situation and using them and manipulating them for as long as possible...
I agree that the Leo the OP was talking about it fickle AND disrespectful with regards to this woman. He's using her because she has feelings for him, most likely strong feelings, and is allowing him to. That's just low! EVEN if the lady is content with the current situation, HE is fully aware that her ultimate goal is marrying him... and stringing her along even though he knows that's not going to happen is just cruel... and stupid... and so, SO unfair!
Men like him, who are always saving themselves for the next best thing, usually end up banging their heads against a wall when they eventually lose the wonderful women in their lives and realize they were the best thing that ever happened to them. Too bad the women end up being hurt in the process too...

If you value yourself and want marriage you don't' except anything less...simple logic

Posted by ellessque

If he doesn't want to get married, fine. He should have the balls to say so instead of leading her on to believe that is what he wants.

Because you have no idea what balls he has or does not have

Because you don't know whether he is leading her on or not


... because this is all second-hand information, nothing in this situation was said by the two people involved, and everything that was said about the situation was presented from a biasd obverver.


But, I see that people just love to talk shit about others ... and it doesn't matter if any truth is present.

* e

biased

Posted by ellessque

Instead of tagging on the disclaimer "I won't marry her....because she's not romantic enough"....perhaps he should evaluate and come to the conclusion he just doesn't want to get married instead of passing on the blame to "her". How about taking a real stance on the issue instead of making up excuses?

Because he never put up that disclaimer .. in fact, he has spoken at all.

An observer put up that disclaimer, who isn't directly involved in the relationship.

Because he didn't pass any blame onto her.

Because nobody in here actually knows what stance he takes in his life, and we have no clue whether he makes excuses or not.


Why?

Because niether party involved has solicited our opinions, they aren't here ... and everythign you are responded to is hear-say.

This is gossoping about two people who aren't here to speak for themselves, and everythign that's been said is second-hand information from an obverser who is biased.


is everyone in here except me .... daft?

I understand him 100 % . Perhaps, it's a Leo thing. He makes perfect sense to me. If someone is not enough of ANYTHING for you then KUDOS to you for recognizing it beforehand. Better now than later, I say.

She would not get "romantic enough" later. He is smart enough to know that you can't change a person. He is also smart enough to know what he needs and he needs more ROMANCE !. He sounds like an Adult to me.

Posted by ellessque

You commented on marriage, I replied in the context of this situation.

You did not just randomly come on this thread to comment about marriage....it was in reference to the OP.

No, you aren't commenting in the context of the situation, because you don't know what the situation is.

And I did comment within the context of the situation, the situation being .... everythign said here is hearsay and the OP and everyone else is gossiping.


For people, like yourself, to constantly be contrary due to it being me talking, doesn't discredit me, when I'm right.


so please, continue to gossip about people who can't defend their ownselves and their morals, values and standards .. because you, along with everyone else who commented about this guy's character ... because they are easy targets, they cannot disagree with you.

pathetic

^^^

But then you go to other forums where others are giving a "one sided" story, which by your your definition is gossip, and proceed to either bash or console them, and you're not discredited how— Everybody comes on here giving a one sided story with out testimony from the the other side. All if it is second hand knowledge. So, we should all just stop talking and further more shut DXP down. Which is ludicrous!! Do you not see how irrational you sound??

You've been discredited as further evidenced by you saying "I'm right" which is your ego talking. And before you pivot to saying I'm acting out of ego, I always said how I felt and not that I'm right.

Then you go to other forums where the OP is addressing a specific problem to a specific sign, asking that sign for their input, not a Pisces, and day what you have to say when they didn't ask you. So, it's none of your business lol

Posted by beautifulsoul74

But then you go to other forums where others are giving a "one sided" story, which by your your definition is gossip, and proceed to either bash or console them

In which, if you paid any attention at all .. you'd realize that I address the person present to either scold or commend, and never address the person who isn't present to speak for themselves.


But, of course, you'd have to pull your head out of your ass to comprehend that.


At any rate, I'm done here, and with you .... I'm right, and everyone knows that, that's why they shut up.

You may carry on making a fool out of yourself at your own discretion, and you won't have to worry about me .... you choose ignorance, in which case I have no use for you.

If that's your perception. Like I said you also console the person based on one sided testimony while putting your nose in business that doesn't belong to you. You've been proven a hypocrit. You know it, and now you're running. The difference, often asks got my advice as to what he should do. Btw, a sharp tongue doesn't indicate a keen mind. See ya Reprimander -In-Chief

Posted by ellessque
I think we are all equally daft, tbh.

That may be the case lol

Posted by ellessque
it seems cowardly to me. *shrugs*

I like how you just slid that in there when she wasn't paying attention

Posted by P-Angel
At any rate, I'm done here, and with you .... I'm right, and everyone knows that, that's why they shut up.

I don't think so. Basically, we don't speak because beautifulsoul74 has spoken for all of us.

Also, P-Angel, they don't speak. Not because you are right. Not because even if they tried to, they will never make you see their point. It's because you are a pain in the ass and, in most cases, an utter waste of time.

On topic, I'm not sure about him being an user. But, from the look of things, I think the whole situation is unfair for her. He got something he needed from her but now he is lacking "romance", which she cannot give to him. She has given so much to him expecting something in the long run, but chance are she will get nothing but the memories.

I think she needs to confront him seriously about this. That's just me, though.

Posted by Theultra79

Posted by BlueSandCacoon

Posted by P-Angel
At any rate, I'm done here, and with you .... I'm right, and everyone knows that, that's why they shut up.

I don't think so. Basically, we don't speak because beautifulsoul74 has spoken for all of us.

Also, P-Angel, they don't speak. Not because you are right. Not because even if they tried to, they will never make you see their point. .

My thoughts. Exactly.

click to expand

I concur lol

Posted by LeoVirgoGirl
On the other hand I'm wondering if our fantasies and our expectations of people have made us blind to the real people. Two months ago i ended a relationship with a guy because he was too romantic. I have been associating romanticism, kindness and gentleness in a man with a weakness of character. Now I wonder if my expectations and associations preventing me to find the good in that person. It's catch 22 ... i am attracted to that type of men but end up pushing them away because i think they are weak ...

That paragraph screamed to me Moon opposite/square Venus. Guess I was right

I have the feeling you already read this. I post it here just in case.

Moon opposite Venus
"Because these people value harmony, they may find themselves giving in to others too easily, especially in the first half of life. Resentment is possible, as they feel that they are the ones who seem to do all the acquiescing. There can be a distinct tendency to become friends (and lovers) with people too readily, simply because there is a strong need for approval and a hunger for receiving affection. As such, these people may get involved with people who seem to really like them, and they don't consider whether they actually like them back! It's somewhat of a weakness, as these people are very charmed by the idea that someone seems to really like them and appreciate them. Generally, one of life's lessons for these people is to learn to discriminate more and to get in touch with what they truly want and need."

Here's the complete description...

http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/moonvenusaspects.html

In short words, your Venus in Libra appreciates it when a man is romantic, a gentleman. However, when you get involved in a relationship, your Aries Moon ends up unsatisfied because she feels the man you are with is too "weak". So, in the end, you will always push those men away because they don't fulfill your needs.

This aspect is rather common in this kind of situations. It wouldn't surprising if the dude beautifulsoul talks about the had conflicting Moon-Venus as well.

@LeoVirgoGirl: I really appreciate you comments as they point to the reason why I created this thread. As for the timeline for marriage, I personally don't believe in a set timeframe or script. In this situation, all of the fundamentals are there except for the romance. The thing is, he's gotten to this point knowing that she isn't a "romantic" person and he knew this pretty early on. He did contribute what he could in the beginning, and doesn't look to gain financially. I know some guys that use people solely. He's not one of them. It appears in the original post that I simply asked him when was he going to propose early in the conversation but we actually talked about some other aspects of the relationship. He went on to say how wonderful she was and she's been amazing and things were great which lead me to ask him the question. He mentioned the fact that she had begun to mention marriage but she hasn't pushed him. I just made a case as to why he should. Giving him an outside viewpoint. Hopefully he steps up. It'll be sad if he doesn't.