@SpecsThaMasta
9 Years
Ophiuchus modality?
What Modality Does Ophiuchus Belong To
Ophiuchus is often theorized as a fixed or transient sign, with some suggestions it could transcend traditional modalities. Since it is not part of the conventional zodiac, its modality is speculative and varies based on different astrological interpretations. It may embody qualities of fixed stability or switch between modalities over time.
none...and I will tell you why people reject ophiuchus ....astrology says every signs has a modality, element, and opposite --without this things ophiuchus really shouldn't be considered
opposites
aries vs libra
taurus vs scorpio
gemini vs saggie
cancer vs capricorn
pisces vs virgo
leo vs aqua
**************************************************************************************************************
elements
fire
aries
leo
saggie
water
scorpio
cancer
pisces
air
gemini
aqua
libra
earth
taurus
virgo
cappie
*****************************************************************************************************
modality
fixed
scorpio
taurus
leo
aqua
cardinal
cancer
cappie
aries
libra
mutable
virgo
gemini
saggie
pisces
Posted by SpecsThaMasta
14 and 13 sign astrology?What's the 14 sign astrology? There's also something between Taurus and Gemini?
click to expand
Yes. Cedus. Ophiuchus and 13 sign astrology actually originates from someone else's idea about a 14 sign astrology. Ophiuchus and Cedus.
I think Ophiuchus is fixed and a water sign. Sharing qualities with Scorpio. The only thing they don't share is the ruling planet. Chiron rules Ophiuchus. Anyhow Im still a Sagittarius.
Posted by Cancan26
none...and I will tell you why people reject ophiuchus ....astrology says every signs has a modality, element, and opposite --without this things ophiuchus really shouldn't be consideredopposites
aries vs libra
taurus vs scorpio
gemini vs saggie
cancer vs capricorn
pisces vs virgo
leo vs aqua
**************************************************************************************************************
elements
fire
aries
leo
saggie
water
scorpio
cancer
pisces
air
gemini
aqua
libra
earth
taurus
virgo
cappie
*****************************************************************************************************
modality
fixed
scorpio
taurus
leo
aqua
cardinal
cancer
cappie
aries
libra
mutable
virgo
gemini
saggie
pisces
Is that not how it's always been though?
click to expand
yes. 🙂
Posted by Dastard
Fuck Ophiuchus. I'm still a Sag.
Lmao do you have significant water in your chart? I was lurking around for a while and I saw you switch from making a topic dissing about that Terramine/Particle dude, to making a "Senpai"ish topic about how you're worried about him. All around didn't seem like something a Sagittarius would do.
Posted by SpecsThaMasta
I know a lot of people reject the 14 and 13 sign astrology. But speaking theoretically. Which modality would Ophiuchus be?Fixed, Mutable, or Cardinal?
What is this talk?
What exact dates and year did this become real?
Go ahead and do the Google research.
Pretty sure it only pertains to those born after a certain year but I'm too lazy to gaf.
click to expand
No. Basically there are 2 signs that the sun passes through that typical astrology blatantly ignores. The sun physically passes by them. Astrology no longer follows what sign the sun was in alignment with when you were born, period. For any sign.
That's the deal. According to 14 sign zodiac and ACTUAL OUTER MOTHERFUCKING SPACE, Ophiuchus is between Saggitarius and Scorpio and Cedus is between Taurus and Gemini
Posted by SpecsThaMasta
I know a lot of people reject the 14 and 13 sign astrology. But speaking theoretically. Which modality would Ophiuchus be?Fixed, Mutable, or Cardinal?
Transient.
Like Cedus.
Posted by bumboklatt
i think the modality system would be broken as there would not be a balance
Well if we go with 14 sign zodiac. It might be plausible that Ophiuchus is Fixed and Cedus is Cardinal. Sure it means Mutables have 1 less. But there's still a balance of sorts and it might explain the extremity of the Ophiuchus' nature.
Because it's opposite is a Cardinal rather than another Fixed and vice versa. Making them a bit unique, but ultimately embodying the 2 halves. Beginnings and Ends.
For elements they could both be 2 elements at the same time.
Posted by littlenanobyte
I looked up a picture of Cetus and it's a fucking narwhal mermaid, I'm SOLD AF
Haha. Well it's more so known as the "Whale". But Narwhals and Whales come from the same evolutionary branch, so.
Cetus' actual symbol is the baton with 2 snakes entwined. The one that can be seen on hospitals and ambulances and such. This:
Posted by SpecsThaMasta
I know a lot of people reject the 14 and 13 sign astrology. But speaking theoretically. Which modality would Ophiuchus be?Fixed, Mutable, or Cardinal?
Transient.
Like Cedus.
click to expand
So you mean. There would be a 4th modality? Called Transient? That would actually patch up the symmetry. Because as it stands 3 modalities is an odd number.
Idc what you believe. I am not for the New"er" Age Astrology. I was born a Sagittarius at December 11. That's the way it stays.
Is cancer compatible with the new sign??
Posted by SpecsThaMasta
I know a lot of people reject the 14 and 13 sign astrology. But speaking theoretically. Which modality would Ophiuchus be?Fixed, Mutable, or Cardinal?
Transient.
Like Cedus.
So you mean. There would be a 4th modality? Called Transient? That would actually patch up the symmetry. Because as it stands 3 modalities is an odd number.
click to expand
Yes and no.
I don't really buy into Ophiuchus (serpent) and Cetus (sea pig) theory.
However, I can concede that sometimes these descriptions may fit the
bill and be necessary, but rarely and only for a minute-- then it's back
to normal.
Kind of like we have Leap years to make the calendar fit properly in time--
just not so often.
Posted by Vulcansfire
Idc what you believe. I am not for the New"er" Age Astrology. I was born a Sagittarius at December 11. That's the way it stays.
Believe what you want. The actual physical sun was not physically in Sagittarius at the time of your birth.
Yes and no. I don't really buy into Ophiuchus (serpent) and Cetus (sea pig) theory. However, I can concede that sometimes these descriptions may fit the bill and be necessary, but rarely and only for a minute-- then it's back to normal.
Kind of like we have Leap years to make the calendar fit properly in time--just not so often.
Hm. Is it possible then that the 2 signs actually transcend dates altogether? Maybe some people. Regardless of when they are born. Are granted these signs for unknown reasons?
As in you could be an Aries according to typical 12 sign astrology. But "the heavens" granted you 1 of these 2 extra signs because you are destined to be legendary? Sounds crazy. But might explain the qualities associated with the Ophiuchus seeming like something rare individuals in history exhibit, without being born under said sign according to the 14 sign zodiac dates.
Posted by Dastard
Fuck Ophiuchus. I'm still a Sag.actually you are Ophiuchus if you follow the real constelation
click to expand
Exactly. Which I go by my ACTUAL sign. Ophiuchus. It is what it is. You wanna believe in 12 sign astrology. Whatevs. I don't care. There are rare individuals who got a bang to their pow. It's not like the Leo's flashiness. Nor the Scorpio's intensity. But more so is extensive and like a Boss type. They go out with a bang. Walter White types. Samuel L Jackson in Pulp Fiction Types. Etc.
If Chiron rules Ophiuchus what rules Cedus?
Posted by Dastard
Fuck Ophiuchus. I'm still a Sag.actually you are Ophiuchus if you follow the real constelation
click to expand
Since when do you follow New Age astrology? Chiron rules Ophiuchus, but you don't believe Chiron is an Astrological planet like you don't believe Uranus, Neptune and Pluto not Astrological planets.
Oh yea I forgot he blocked me. Lol
Posted by Season
If Chiron rules Ophiuchus what rules Cedus?
Idk. I could pull some shit out of my ass here but, idk.
Is there anything left unruled? Or is multiple rulers possible? Because then I would suggest whatever the "opposite" of Chiron is.
Posted by cesspool
celestial longitude- look it up.anyway, ophiuchus and cetus have no modalities, but their elements are spirit and spirit/water, respectively.
I just did and I'm confused. Goin to have to be a bit more blunt than that.
Having "no modality" is basically what I meant in the OP about the possibility that they had a 4th modality that was "transient". It's basically the same thing. Having no set modality would mean that you would switch between them freely. Which would explain the Ophiuchus for example, having a high probability for leaving home early. Which would fall into Cardinal, and then they go off and accomplish a lot and start changing the world which would fall into Mutable, and then by the end of their trail blazing they end up in a pretty stable position. Usually on top somewhere. Thus Fixed.
I wonder then if Cetus could be a bit of the opposite? They're said to be a lot more precise and intelligent in their thinking. Like to the point that it's virtually genius. So I wonder if that would motivate them being more likely to stay in a household for a long time. Because they might play it more safe and cautious than a Ophiuchus is prone to. Starting out more fixed and moving more towards Mutable and then Cardinal in the long run?
It doesn't pertain to anything. NASA doesn't know or care about astrology
You realize NASA is the one that literally looks up at the physical planets? They travel there with motherfuckin rockets. I love how youre basically shruggin this off as "Pfft, Astronomers? They clearly dont know more about the planets than Astrologers". When that is such an absurd notion. It should be the other way around.
Astronomy is superior, it trumps Astrology. Only after Astronomy can you look at Astrology.
Its not that NASA doesnt know or care about Astrology. Bill Nye and Carl Sagan have made it pretty evident and clear that they DO know all about it. Scientists have done studies to try to see whether or not there was any sort of pattern that matched what Astrology says and of course, the rates were only 50/50 successful just like prayer. Meanin its got the same odds of success at explainin human personality and behavior as just throwing your hands in the air and saying human personality and behavior is just totally random.
Its not that NASA doesnt care. Its that they care more so about the actual physical location of the planets. Its Astrology that gives not a fuck for the fact that the sun is actually in alignment with Cetus and Ophiuchus all the time. They know Astrology so well, they know it all the way back to its origins. They know that it was based on a model of the solar system BEFORE there was a shift in Earths rotation.
Fo real.
What are the dates for Cetus?
http://www.classroomastronomer.com/zodiac.htm
"First, let's agree on what a "sun sign" is. As you might guess, a sign is a constellation. A sun sign must have something to do with the sun appearing with a constellation. So we should be able to easily agree on the definition of a sun sign: The constellation the sun is in on the day you were born. Agreed? Good.
While the newspapers may list 12 equally sized star groupings for horoscope lovers, the astronomical fact is that the Sun passes through 13 constellations and touches a 14th. This automatically means that the sun can not possibly spend 30 days in each constellation!
The sizes of the constellations are quite diverse, i.e. the sun does not spend equal amounts of time in each star group but spends as few as seven days to as much as 45 days in a constellation. Furthermore, the start dates of entry into each constellation do not mesh with horoscope dates because the original constellation borders were those of several thousand years ago. The earth's wobble - precession - has caused those borders to shift along the ecliptic, the path of the sun in the stars as seen from earth.
Below are the constellations that house the sun, and the dates the Sun enters and leaves each, on average. Because of leap years and the non-integer number of real days in a year, the dates can shift either way by about a day."
Dates Sun Is In The Constellation :
Sagittarius: Dec 18 - Jan 18
Capricornus: Jan 19 - Feb 15
Aquarius: Feb 16 - Mar 11
Pisces: Mar 12 - Apr 18
Cetus: Mar 14
Aries: Apr 19 - May 13
Taurus: May 14 - Jun 19
Gemini: Jun 20 - Jul 20
Cancer: Jul 21 - Aug 9
Leo: Aug 10 - Sep 15
Virgo: Sep 16 - Oct 30
Libra: Oct 31 - Nov 22
Scorpius: Nov 23 - Nov 29
Ophiuchus: Nov 30 - Dec 17
# of Days:
Sagittarius: 32
Capricornus: 23
Aquarius: 24
Pisces: 38
Cetus: 1
Aries: 25
Taurus: 37
Gemini: 31
Cancer: 20
Leo: 37
Virgo: 45
Libra: 23
Scorpius: 7
Ophiuchus :18
Posted by bumboklatt
the whole "the sun wasnt in a certain constellation at your time of birth" is a new age "scientific" discovery astrology doesent work well with traditional science, because astrology works with belief and things we do not understand (cant measure)Traditional Western Astrology has its own set of rules theres a thing called "processional slippage" that tries to defend western astrology from NASA and from 13th 14th signs it basically says that when Astrology was developed a "snapshot" of the universes energies was taken so regardless of the earth tilting or shifting etc, the sign does not change its influence
Lol thats when youre delving into the outright bullshit end of the spectrum. Sorry but, no Magic allowed. Magic does not exist, you are a grown fucking adult so its time to put aside imaginary made up bullshit and accept REALITY. I just love how you shrug off "scientific". It shows your personal conspiracy bias against Science itself. Even though science is a colossal titan that has basically constructed civilization from the ground up.
"it basically says that when Astrology was developed a "snapshot" of the universes energies was taken"
Energies, Chakras, and all that assorted bullshit is not real. Its made up. Slow down on the drugs because you aint handlin em right.
Also NEW AGE? LMFAO. If "A discovery that has been around as long as telescopes have" is new age. Then sure. But you better be aware of just how far back we are talking about here. Astrology itself is ancient. So too is the discovery that it ceased to be an accurate mapping of the stars.
Posted by clay
There are 12 signs and 48 starry constellational sub-influences.Period
I'm sorry but. Have you looked into outer space? Have you seen the planets with your own eyes?
No?
From the waist down, I'm a beast.
I didn't choose the sag life, the sag life chose me.
Posted by NobleSag
From the waist down, I'm a beast.I didn't choose the sag life, the sag life chose me.
Chill before someone gets jealous and cuts it off. Bye bye prized penis.
sure do love makin excuses in the same way Christians and Muslims do. Every time someone pokes a hole in their bullshit they just shift the goal posts, twist interpretations, re-invent parts of it, etc.
Never is the whole thing outright wrong tho, right?
If it was any sort of truth. You couldnt do that. For instance people used to believe the Earth was flat and that it was the center of the solar system. They no longer believe that, no longer claim that, because it was wrong. There are some rare crackpots that try to skew all the current facts to defend those old world beliefs. But we all know they are just clinging onto wrong ass beliefs.
It doesn't make any sense, because astronomy and astrology are vastly different.
But they intersect on certain points. That you are bluntly ignorin. Such as the placement of the planets. Literally the Sun sign is the sign that was PHYSICALLY in alignment with the sun. The Moon sign is the sign the moon was physically in alignment with. The Rising is which one was on the physical horizon and the Midheaven was which sign was physically above the Earth/Up in the sky.
No only that, but you completely ignore the fact that Vedic astrology goes by the current constellation placements and that Western astrology goes by seasons. And this isn't new, it's not astrology's fault that neither NASA or you know that. But frankly, NASA doesn't know because it doesn't give a fuck. Astrologers already told them that Western astrology went by seasons, yet only a few years later they circulate this bullshit again.
Um... what the fuck you talkin about?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_astrology
"Western astrology is largely horoscopic, that is, it is a form of divination based on the construction of a horoscope for an exact moment, such as a person's birth, in which various cosmic bodies are said to have an influence. Astrology in western popular culture is often reduced to sun sign astrology, which considers only the individual's date of birth (i.e. the "position of the Sun" at that date)."
All Western astrology is, is a bastardization of Vedic astrology. Its not really based on anything at all. Its completely made up because its the astrology where "horoscopes" are involved which we all know is not real and Astrology is boiled down to only the Sun Sign. Which again. Sun Sign BY DEFINITION means the sign that was in alignment with the sun at the time of your birth.
In terms of "Tropical Astrology" just basing it off the sun by itself doesn't even make sense. The "Signs" are constellations in the first place. Aries is a constellation in the sky, first and foremost. The whole point to Vedic Astrology using those names was literally bluntly to say that you were born under that constellation. Without the constellations its not even astrology period.
Hell goin into it further. Even if you remove the term Aries from association of the constellation. What is there to actually differentiate Aries from Libra? Theres nothin in the physical universe that is different at that point. At least in relevant context. In context its based on JUST the sun right? Not based on its alignment with the constellations? So in that case, what differentiates the "placement" of say Aries and Libra? The sun isn't really positioned all that differently at both times of the year. There's a slight tilt but that is it and ignoring constellations that slight tilt only differentiates 2 halves of the zodiac. Not each individual sign. Beyond that axis tilt... the sun ultimately stays in the same alignment with the Earth.
It is Earth that moves around the sun, it is the Earth that moves and it does so in a way that basically from our perspective almost nothing changes over the year. While the earth is moving around the sun, the fact that it is doing so in a circle and that it rotates along that circle means we are always facing it the same way we always do. Beyond that slight tilt.
In Vedic astrology what you have to measurably differentiate is the fact that which Constellation is in alignment with the Sun and Earth, changes drastically across 14 individual and unique Constellations.
But youre basically saying that human personality is dictated and differentiated... by nothing? Because there is barely anything measurable across "The Seasons" that could invoke much variance in human personality. Temperature hardly changes. Main differences are yet again at the 2 extreme ends of the yearly routine. Just like the tilt, this would only "divide"/differentiate the different Signs down the half. Not each and every. What you should expect in this case is that. Everybody of 1 half of the zodiac. Aries, Taurus, etc would all have the same personality traits. and then the other half of the zodiac would be different from the first half, but all individuals of the second half of the signs would also all have the same personality traits. Not each individual one where you can say "Aries are Brash and Hotheaded", "Taurus are Stubborn and Strong Willed", etc. But rather "Aries, Taurus, Gemini, etc are all simultaneously X qualities while Libra, Scorpio, Sagittarius are all simultaneously Y qualities".
And again Tropical/Western Astrology has to throw out all other placements. Moon, Rising, Juno, Asteroids, Venus, etc. Because if you just base it on "seasons" and/or just the placement of the Sun in regards to Earth. Then all those other placements dont even exist at all. So in Tropical Astrology, there should be no Charts. If there is, then thats basically just a vestigial remnant of Vedic Astrology and somethin that no longer serves any functional purpose at all. Kinda like some human organs lmao
Nasa's academic knowledge about planets isn't what we're debating. They're scientists, if I want to know when Jupiter will die, then yeah I'll look up a NASA article. But when it comes down to it, NASA is not an authority on astrology and they never should be .
Do they know about planets? Yes. But in relation to their supposed affect on personality? No.......because they don't care. An average astronomer or astrophysicist couldn't even tell you what a moon sign is. Because that's not their field of study, period.
The thing is. I dont even know why you are trying to bring up Western Astrology. Im pretty sure the reason Scientists ignore it is because they take it even less seriously than Vedic Astrology. I don't even know why you are bringing it up? As if it is the astrology you go by? Because that is just plain ridiculous. You should know better. You should know how horribly made up and false it is in respect to REAL Astrology. Western Astrology is just a bastardization of Vedic Astrology, made by the mindless masses being total shills. Thats all and if that isnt convincing enough for you then all you have to do is look above where I picked Western Astrology apart to see that it makes no fucking sense period.
The fact is that Astrology is a claim about the physical universe too. Which you intellectually-dishonestly try to avoid and deny. Even here you mention Moon signs even though thats a purely Vedic Astrology thing. Western/Tropical Astrology doesn't have Charts. i mean it might... but it shouldnt. Because an Astrology Chart is a PLACEMENT thing. You can't ascribe Rising and Midheaven to just the location of the sun. At that point youre just seriously raping the shit out of Vedic astrology. Because as explained above the Sun itself cannot explain all that nuance and variance that Vedic astrology supplies. The slightest inch of the Suns position will not radically affect a species' personality, emotions, purpose, etc and all that shit.
As to the studies, astrology belongs in the category of metaphysics for a reason. There isn't a lot of proof backing it up(although being able to pin down personality is something that psychology hasn't even achieved yet, an actual science), it's mostly faith supported, there's a distinct lack of guidelines for it(a la being a pseudoscience) and ultimately it's more of a spirituality.
But I'm going to stay on topic.
click to expandHuman personality is not fuckin metaphysics or spiritual. You are presentin a false dichotomy by sayin science hasnt at all explained and pinned down personality. MBTI while not the most unambiguous theoretical model, still has plenty of success in tests for predictin certain things. It even helps psychologists treat mental patients. Not only that but if Science didnt understand personality at all then psychology wouldnt work at all. But it does, it has plenty of success. It is more chaotic and barbaric compared to other modern sciences. But it does work.
Everything science does in regards to personality has vastly better odds at predicting and handling personality than the 50/50 prayer odds that Astrology of any kind gets in studies. Recently speaking. Psychology has been gettin trumped. But you know by what? Neuroscience. An even MORE Materialistic approach. It is no surprise that yet again a materialistic approach ends up proving to be the superior method out of all other methods. Yet philosophers will debate on end over whether or not our universe is materialistic.
If you have to resort to Metaphysics and Spirituality to explain Human Personality. You are really reaching for straws.
And then angrily insisting that everyone stop believing in souls because your doctor said so. I mean he's a doctor and he studies the body, it's a fucking job and your soul is in your body right(Depending on what you believe)? So he must be absolutely qualified to make that judgement.
Actually the fact that you cant show me what a soul is, where it is, or what it does. Is EXACTLY the reason you should stop believing in it because at that point it is virtually identical with NOTHINGNESS. NONEXISTENCE. You SHOULD be Atheist to the existence of souls because you have never had even a single shred of evidence to suggests it exists and you have a shit ton of evidence that says otherwise.
That says this is the only life you got, so you better act like it because if you dont then youll throw away what finite time you had and beyond that its just an eternity of your nonexistence. An eternity without you.
You're clinging onto this idea so much that you want to ignore the rules and the system set jn place by astrology. Astrologers reject the 14 sign zodiac because it doesn't make sense, the two additional signs throw off the balance and that is that. But you don't care about that. You're too busy getting angry at a belief system for not fitting into a mold created by a science. BECAUSE IT IS A BELIEF SYSTEM.
click to expand
Vedic Astrology is the one that makes any modicum of sense. Western Astrology is straight up retarded nonsense. So I have no clue what you are talking about.
The funny thing is there is another system almost identical to Astrology in structure. I wont say what its called but it has this same exact dilema goin on among its proponents. There are 12... things. But then the man who invented the system revealed another 2. Immediately and ever since people have questioned the existence of the other 2. Saying they make no sense, break the balance, etc. But they are wrong. It is merely a matter of their own ignorance blindin them from lookin deeper to see how the original 12 on their own make no sense and that includin the other 2 patches everythin up and makes it flawless.
Last thing I will say. In regards to your claim that because somethin is a belief system, it cannot fit into a mold or standard imposed by science? You are wrong. I am currently making a religion, one that is strictly molded by science and logic above all. Somethin being a belief system does not block it from intersectin with science. If a belief system touches on territory that science does, then they will conflict if they dont come to a mutual consensus.
It's not like that, the 13 signs is when the local universe opens up and changes, or smth, then it closes again. I believe this configuration occurs during a short point in time. The universe is more complex than we can imagine...
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Tropical/Western astrology does include moon, mercury, venus, rising, and asteroids.
Which I acknowledged. By sayin "it might have charts" I meant that I knew it did. Which is why I went on to explain in excruciatin detail why it makes no fuckin sense at all.
This is still true even though I didnt know...
"The Western Zodiac is drawn based on the Earth's relationship to fixed, designated positions in the sky, and the Earth's seasons."
...That tha other placements were explained by arbitrary fixed designated spots. You realize theres clearly a hidden agenda here? Because Western/Tropical Astrologists clearly just pulled that out of their asses to cover up tha fact that it can no longer stick to placements based on tha actual physical alignments of tha planets and constellations in tha first place?
This "explanation" came way after tha whole Ophiuchus and Cetus shizz became a thing.
So tha reason im not goin to accept it as valid and im going to shove more of that "god complex" down your throat. Is because you cannot fuckin deny that it is literally just people makin shit up. 12 sign astrology and Vedic astrology used to be one in tha same. Before "Tropical" astrology existed. Then tha earths orbit tilted and tha only way anyone could stick with the 12 sign astrology was to just start makin shit up and backpeddling and callin that "Tropical astrology".
Lets be real here.
To suggest otherwise is to basically go down tha same exact path that bumboklatt tried goin down. In which she went full retard and said "it basically says that when Astrology was developed a "snapshot" of tha universes energies was taken". Thats tha explanation. Tha explanation you are trying to tell me now. That Astrology is just magic. Human personality is dictated by "universal energies" even though thats just retarded woo talk for a one hundred percent undeniable fact.
Because how else would arbitrarily assigned fixed positions, impact human personality? Why would arbitrary empty/blank points in space impact human personality? They dont. Thats tha point. Because 12 sign/Tropical astrology can no longer use an accurate chart of tha planets, tha only way to make it work is to say tha "placements" themselves are arbitrary and metaphorical for "universal energies" that are all workin their "magix".
Also you wanna know whats more annoying than ignorance? People who bluntly ignore your arguments. Like how you ignored my entire rant goin into extruciatin detail about how and why Tropical astrology aint make no god damn sense.
Popular Astrology(as in the that most people are familiar with) IS basically stripped down to sun sign, so naturally the loads of other important things are left out. Because people want to use it as a party favor, and are mostly disinterested in actually learning about it. But people who do study western astrology generally use all planets, and use the angles(rising, ic, dsc, mc). Most at least dabble in asteriods as well.
What I find absolutely adorable is that you actually think Popular Astrology and Western/Tropical Astrology are 2 seperate things. When tha undeniable truth is that tha popular astrology you describe is merely tha most surface level of popular astrology. Tropical astrology is a product and sub-set of popular astrology.
Its a perversion of Vedic Astrology pulled out of its proponents anuses for tha sake of rationalizin tha rest of tha system in regards to popular astrology. This is a sub-context that even tha Wiki is clearly tryin to get accross with its ambiguous wordin and beatin around tha bush about what exactly "popular astrology" is.
Just because the public is largely ignorant to them(other parts of astrology besides zodiac sign) doesn't mean that Western astrology lacks them.
You are exaggeratin tha ignorance of tha public at large in regards to astrology. There is a LOT of people who express some sort knowledge of tha other placements. Its just that most people dont believe in astrology at all period. For good reason. Most people believe it is complete nonsense or just arent that interested. So they dont even know what exactly a sun sign is. Just that its a sign some crazy loons ascribe to their bday.
THIS IS A WESTERN ASTROLOGY WEBSITE. You're aware of that right? That's why vedic astrology's forum is located after astrology's. Because Western Astrology is the focus of this website.
You know what is also more annoyin than ignorance? When someone asserts their own made up biased bullshit as if it is what was intended by tha people in charge.
This is not an astrology website period. Half of tha main topics may be astrology focused. But there is an equally large half of non-astrology topics. Tha website isnt called anythin in regards to astrology. There is no FAQ or anything explicitly statin "this is an astrology website". Tha only thing we got for whats what is tha TOS which basically just says dont be a dick and this and that. Nothin about astrology.
Tha actual reason that this forum is even as focused on astrology as it is. Is because of its users. It is obvious that whoever is in charge is very flexible in what they want this forum to be. So they go with tha flow. Because so many people here are proponents of astrology and discuss astrology, in other words because astrology is tha hottest topic. That alone is tha only reason tha site is arranged tha way it is.
Now in tha case of Western VS Vedic astrology specifically. Tha reason is because of tha oh so deliciously ironic fact that Western/Tropical Astrology is in fact Popular Astrology. Vedic astrology is even more outside tha domain of public awareness than Tropical astrology. Less known and less popular in general. Plus Tropical astrology is born from tha same motivation as strictly sun sign popular astrology. So dont even try it.
Learn how to read. Astrology is metaphysics, just because I reference psychology's difficulty dealing with personality doesn't mean that I'm calling personality metaphysics. For fucks sake.
You keep doin that. That thing. Right there. Tha thing where you dont recognize tha implications of your own claims. If you are positing that astrology is metaphysics, and you also simultaneously posit that astrology explains human personality. Then that inextricably means that according to you, human personality is metaphysical. Otherwise you are admittin that astrology is just bullshit and doesnt actually explain anythin.
If human personality isnt metaphysical, then it cannot be explained by metaphysics.
I should clarify, I was referring to Psychology's difficulty in completely understanding personality. Especially personality disorders. Never once was I attempting to say that psychology was useless in regards to tha human mind or personality. I'm saying that it lacks a complete/full understanding of it.
And astrology doesnt even understand/explain tha human mind or personality at all. So...
If you don't know anything about western astrology, and are convinced that its bullshit, then why are you here?
click to expandIm not goin to accept your claim that this site is "a western astrology site". For tha above mentioned reasons. Im not even goin to give you that tha individual sign forums are for any specific interpretation of astrology. If I want to talk in tha Aries forum under tha influence of a Vedic interpretation there is nothing on this site sayin im not allowed or supposed to. Tha Vedic astrology forum is just for direct discussion about Vedic astrology unto itself.
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I know a lot of people reject the 14 and 13 sign astrology. But speaking theoretically. Which modality would Ophiuchus be?
Fixed, Mutable, or Cardinal?
A theory I came up with, but purely conjecture at this point:
If we go with 14 sign zodiac. It might be plausible that Ophiuchus is Fixed and Cedus is Cardinal. Sure it means Mutables have 1 less. But there's still a balance of sorts and it might explain the extremity of the Ophiuchus' nature. Because it's opposite is a Cardinal rather than another Fixed and vice versa. Making them a bit unique, but ultimately embodying the 2 halves. Beginnings and Ends.
For elements they could both be 2 elements at the same time.
Alternatively Montgomery suggests that Ophiuchus and Cetus are "Transient". I'm not sure what they mean exactly. I'm assuming they mean they switch between the 3 modalities. Only staying as 1 modality for a temporary amount of time. This would make sense. Transient could be seen as a 4th modality, which would patch up the symmetry since 3 modalities is an odd number. This modality would be like a Super-Modality that transcends the other 3?
Another out-there possibility:
The 2 signs actually transcend dates altogether. I know they don't literally physically do so. But it's possible that they are assigned rarely to special individuals. So they may transcend the system and fluently switch between modalities and elements?