Should veils be banned from public places? (Page 2)

WC, he's obviously a crackpot. His "religion" sounds more like a cult to me.

Posted by LovesickCancer
* Cut off

They also consider themselves 'elite' above all other Muslims who might as well be ants and their reign of terror will never be spoken!!

This is very true. I was married to one. Snobbish lot they are. With a few exceptions of course. And it's not only restricted to other Muslims, but the rest of humanity.

i find veils very beautiful, and feminine and mysterious.



if the woman enjoys and feels good wearing them, why not?


Someone mentioned white men having to "liberate" these women. I mean, as long as the women are treated respectfully, why do these men feel the need to do anything? It sounds like what happened in the 1800s when the westerners came to Japan and tried to change their culture.

Posted by CluelessCancer
WC people like him should be imprisoned, those that take advantage of the hopeless, the helpless, the poor, etc. SMH

I agree. This shocked a lot of pastors worldwide. He says they're jealous lol.

Posted by tiziani
And arguably more free than the UK, too.

How so?

Posted by XXMR2NICEXX
Certain roles require faces to be seen; so pupils should be able to meet their teachers face to face, and juries should be able to see a witness give evidence.

I think we've gone off-topic though. I don't think the OP was talking about everyday circumstances where a women is veiled.

Could there be "special circumstances" where a veiled women would need to be ID'd?

I'm actually curious as to how ID's are done in strict Muslim countries. Maybe fingerprinting?

Tiz, I'm not convinced that the OP was being facetious. I thought he was just opening a discussion?

Posted by tiziani

Posted by SpiceNSugar
Tiz, I'm not convinced that the OP was being facetious. I thought he was just opening a discussion?

That's cool. I am giving my opinion on the subject he raised.

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Ah ok. I misinterpreted your intent. 🙂

Regarding females being ID'd. A Muslim friend of mine just gave me the answer:

"I remember back in August when I went to Istanbul there was an Arab family in front of me with the faces covered. They had to take off their veil, but they called over a female security to check and they pulled them to the side so no one could see."

^^^^^ Makes sense!!

Posted by geminicandIe
I witnessed a judge in court tell a woman to take it off (she had a full burka on) and woman visibly blushed and said through translator that she has only ever revealed herself at home, with family and that it is against her faith. Then judged rubbed her forhead, looked in some books and after a minute deliberation agreed to let her stay as she is. I don't know if it was Constitutional or not, or if judge was going by her own precedent.

Women in "full burkas":






How did she "visibly blush" if you couldn't see an inch of her skin?

Posted by Montgomery

Posted by geminicandIe
I witnessed a judge in court tell a woman to take it off (she had a full burka on) and woman visibly blushed and said through translator that she has only ever revealed herself at home, with family and that it is against her faith. Then judged rubbed her forhead, looked in some books and after a minute deliberation agreed to let her stay as she is. I don't know if it was Constitutional or not, or if judge was going by her own precedent.

Women in "full burkas":






How did she "visibly blush" if you couldn't see an inch of her skin?

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Good question

Her full body? o.O

Posted by geminicandIe
I witnessed a judge in court tell a woman to take it off (she had a full burka on) and woman visibly blushed and said through translator that she has only ever revealed herself at home, with family and that it is against her faith.

And if I didn't know, I couldn't very well object to your statement. :/

Posted by CluelessCancer

Posted by SpiceNSugar

Posted by CluelessCancer
I don't give a fuk about the U.K tho. I'm an American.

You talk about vitriol. It's your favorite word. You're filled with it.

Go fuk yourself hoe, i've seen how you slyly been hating on me, probably pm'ing mr. desperate thousands of pms, if you don't like me block me. don't read me bytch!

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This is the very reason your becoming irrelevant, because people are waking up to your hostility and bitterness. Humble yourself, so we're able to return to our regularly scheduled programming on dxp. Thank you. This is all I'm going to say on this thread. Thank you

Posted by Montgomery
How did she "visibly blush" if you couldn't see an inch of her skin?

Good question!

Posted by LovesickCancer

And to the person who said something like the veil isn't banned in Europe, it is in France.

For those interested in further reading on the topic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ban_on_face_covering

Scares the shit out of me when you see this huge black blob coming towards you all covered up head to toe, or you turn around and there she is standing, is she looking at me?

C'mon it's a creepy experience people!!

LOL

Posted by SpiceNSugar

Posted by Montgomery
How did she "visibly blush" if you couldn't see an inch of her skin?

Good question!

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Yeah...

^ LOL Or a ball gag.

LOLOL What a visual! 😄

Posted by aquapiscescusp

C'mon it's a creepy experience people!!
LOL

I once saw this kind of metal plate face mask and frankly it was kind of scary to me.

Posted by SpiceNSugar

Posted by aquapiscescusp

C'mon it's a creepy experience people!!
LOL

I once saw this kind of metal plate face mask and frankly it was kind of scary to me.

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What the hell...

Accessorizing? Matches her handbag.

Posted by SpiceNSugar

Posted by LovesickCancer

And to the person who said something like the veil isn't banned in Europe, it is in France.

For those interested in further reading on the topic:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ban_on_face_covering<div class="bqfade">click to expand

From your link, regarding the implementation of the ban:


The representatives reported instances of some women deciding to file complaints against their husbands once informed of their rights; of some others stating that they were waiting for the law to come into force so that it would compel their husbands to release them from wearing the veil; and of some others stopping the wearing of the facial veil outright after the information meetings.

🙂

While no disturbances were reported during the personal meetings with the women who could be reached, the representatives reported instances of local Islamic clerics issuing fatw??s against them, of being verbally harassed, of being threatened including with implied death threats, and in one case of being physically assaulted by men. In the last preparatory phase, larger meetings and public debates were organised.

Original article: Link


Also from your link, Muslim clerics emphasized that the niqab, etc were not part of Islam.

Thanks for posting.

I'm on the fence on this one. On one hand the sexual and gendered implications of this is significant... but on the other I am a firm believer in individual freedom and that includes the right to exercise individual religion (as much as I disagree with it).

All in all, I'd probably say it should be allowed just for the latter above mentioned.

Posted by LilyTree
One person's veil is another person's oppression.

One person's hot pants is another person's shakles.

Has anyone ever stopped to consider that perhaps THEY feels sorry for US? They see us walking around half-naked and being objectified as women, and they view this as abuse and oppression? Western nation has a billion dollar industry built smoley on pornography and sex trafficking.

No.

Because we have a choice.

P0rn has been around forever.

Trafficking, though tragic, is typically comprised of immigrants; not citizens.

Posted by LilyTree

Posted by Montgomery

Posted by LilyTree
One person's veil is another person's oppression.

One person's hot pants is another person's shakles.

Has anyone ever stopped to consider that perhaps THEY feels sorry for US? They see us walking around half-naked and being objectified as women, and they view this as abuse and oppression? Western nation has a billion dollar industry built smoley on pornography and sex trafficking.

No.

Because we have a choice.

P0rn has been around forever.

Trafficking, though tragic, is typically comprised of immigrants; not citizens.

Do we really?
I have seen women making themselves sick to fit into the stereotype that society has pushed on us. Young children specialize themselves. Freedom? I think not. I watched a male news anchor telling a woman reporter to "remember her place." What of that female basketball team being called "nappy-headed-h*es." This is not freedom. It's an open-air prison.

And let's not be ignorant enough to assume that none of those women have chosen to cover and actually want to do it.

As for human trafficking, we know the supply. What of the demand, my friend.

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Yes, we really do.

Any liberty can be perverted or exploited-- so can any religious restriction.

But that is no reason to take away freedom of choice.

What would be the alternative?


Regarding your examples:

A male news anchor telling an anchor-woman to "remember her place" on the air would be eaten alive by the liberal media; feel free to link that.

The other example-- Imus?

He was fired-- so that isn't a good example, either.

If anything, it shows that behavior like that won't be tolerated.


And I'm sure some women want to wear their head-covering; it seems to be getting popular for American-born Muslim women (who have that choice).

But let's not pretend that a uniform, mandated by law, is freedom.

Posted by SanchoElMejor

Posted by tiziani
The funny thing is on the face of things Saudi Arabia is actually a country with more freedoms than the United States right now, on the balance of things.

WHAT? JUST WHAT? Women aren't even allowed to fucking drive in Saudi Arabia.

Posted by tiziani

Last time I experienced Jeddah, we were allowed to talk about whatever we please. Granted, though, I am a man. I didn't have to worry about flashing ankles and the like. Even then, people would have been detained in public in daylight. The laws are clear.

Talk negatively about Mohammed and see what happens... You're an idiot. Saudi Arabia doesn't have more liberties than the U.S. Everything you say about the U.S. is wrong. Same with everything you say about Virgos just saying...

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lol. womens freedoms require a whole different fence.

Posted by SanchoElMejor
The most modern Muslim country, Dubai, still has the mentality of an Ancient civilization. All Muslim countries lack education. Things will change. The OP brings up a good point about veiled Muslims taking tests at Universities. It wouldn't be fair if they didn't have to be identified like the rest of us. From my understanding, veils are a benefit for Muslim women because they deter rape, and it's usually the woman's decision to wear them.

So true about Dubai.

I know someone who lives there. The women, under those "getups" wear very expensive clothing, don't be fooled. As soon as they get to their gathering or party, they take it off and sit around chatting it up like the rest of the modern world. She couldn't believe the hypocrisy.

Posted by aquapiscescusp

Posted by SanchoElMejor
The most modern Muslim country, Dubai, still has the mentality of an Ancient civilization. All Muslim countries lack education. Things will change. The OP brings up a good point about veiled Muslims taking tests at Universities. It wouldn't be fair if they didn't have to be identified like the rest of us. From my understanding, veils are a benefit for Muslim women because they deter rape, and it's usually the woman's decision to wear them.

So true about Dubai.

I know someone who lives there. The women, under those "getups" wear very expensive clothing, don't be fooled. As soon as they get to their gathering or party, they take it off and sit around chatting it up like the rest of the modern world. She couldn't believe the hypocrisy.

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I had to read that twice. lol

It's just for show is what she means, right?


Dubai Dress Code

26 Rules/Suggestions for women, and an explanatory paragraph or three, from an expat.

Very helpful article, really-- but for men

Just the 3 rules. 😐

1. Bare chests are not allowed in public

2. Shorts should be to the knee

3. Swimwear should not be worn away from a pool or beach e.g. don't walk down the street in your trunks