And that's what most people don't want to talk about, especially the power hungry talk about disarming people (while maintaining their own coterie of armed bodyguards, of course).
The more guns the better (Page 2)
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Posted by VivaciousScorpioIn a crowded busy club?Posted by QuantumBut it's not going to kill 50+ and injure 50+ more.Posted by VivaciousScorpioEven easier is driving a truck right through the front door.Posted by QuantumEven easier than locking a door and setting fire to place is storming through the front and rapidly shooting everyone you see....Posted by cheekyfaerieThat's the point.Posted by QuantumNot the best device for home invasion so anybody that makes that argument is basically admitting to wanting weapons just for the fun of it or harboring ulterior motives.
How easy is it to build a bomb?
All it takes is a trip to the hobby store for some model rocketry components, Cabela's or Gander Mountain for some black powder, Radio Shack for some very basic electrical components, Home Depot for pipes and nails.
Buy a couple of tanks of propane for your gas grill and you can easily take out 50 or more people.
If someone wants to kill people, they'll find a way with or with out guns.
It would have been just as easy for the Orlando shooter to chain the doors shut from the outside then set the place on fire.click to expand
It could probably cause MORE damage.
Posted by VivaciousScorpioIf they told you happy stories that give you comfort it wouldn't be today's news and media now would it?Posted by SoulBut the people with guns don't stop anything!Posted by VivaciousScorpioI guarantee it would still happen anyway. Quit trying to assume what life here in America would be like. Once more, it's not about the laws of a country. Its about The state of mind of those who occupy it, and we are all fucked.Posted by PalerioI think going to a firing range and shooting guns, crafting your own, taking them apart and putting them back together would be fantastic! I really do.
Idk...
I must admit it was exciting, back in the days, when the owner of a farm allowed me to fire with his rifle.
I don't want more but that was for sure quite an experience I'll always remember.
However, if at the same time school kids and college students are getting massacred on a frequent basis by deranged lone gunman and this is a trend and the government were to ban the sale of guns due to this, I'm gonna be pissed, but I'd understand the reasoning behind it and would recognise instantly it's for the best. It's downright logical.
You would still have mass murder in America. Just in the form of fire, bombs, and other weird shit humans invented to kill. More murder by the cops and more harassment from puppets. Only then no normal people will have guns to stop it. And the cops will be too busy fucking with some non white race to do anything about it.
I've not seen one headline that's read "Heavily armed gunman stopped by heroic dog walker"click to expand
But you still haven't proven me wrong.
People will kill people with whatever means they have at their disposal.
Don't get me wrong. I'm a gun owner and I believe we need better laws.
But no guns =/= no mass killings
People will kill people with whatever means they have at their disposal.
Don't get me wrong. I'm a gun owner and I believe we need better laws.
But no guns =/= no mass killings
Posted by VivaciousScorpioTrust me, you want your average American living an illusi.... I mean the American dream.Posted by SoulShit like that WOULD make the news. Don't kid yourself.Posted by VivaciousScorpioIf they told you happy stories that give you comfort it wouldn't be today's news and media now would it?Posted by SoulBut the people with guns don't stop anything!Posted by VivaciousScorpioI guarantee it would still happen anyway. Quit trying to assume what life here in America would be like. Once more, it's not about the laws of a country. Its about The state of mind of those who occupy it, and we are all fucked.Posted by PalerioI think going to a firing range and shooting guns, crafting your own, taking them apart and putting them back together would be fantastic! I really do.
Idk...
I must admit it was exciting, back in the days, when the owner of a farm allowed me to fire with his rifle.
I don't want more but that was for sure quite an experience I'll always remember.
However, if at the same time school kids and college students are getting massacred on a frequent basis by deranged lone gunman and this is a trend and the government were to ban the sale of guns due to this, I'm gonna be pissed, but I'd understand the reasoning behind it and would recognise instantly it's for the best. It's downright logical.
You would still have mass murder in America. Just in the form of fire, bombs, and other weird shit humans invented to kill. More murder by the cops and more harassment from puppets. Only then no normal people will have guns to stop it. And the cops will be too busy fucking with some non white race to do anything about it.
I've not seen one headline that's read "Heavily armed gunman stopped by heroic dog walker"
Also stop kidding yourself with this fantasy you regular joes are going to stop the evils of the world because you got your trusty side piece with you.click to expand
Because when he wakes from a dreamers sleep he likely won't like what he see's
Posted by VivaciousScorpiohttps://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/03/do-civilians-with-guns-ever-stop-mass-shootings/Posted by SoulShit like that WOULD make the news. Don't kid yourself.Posted by VivaciousScorpioIf they told you happy stories that give you comfort it wouldn't be today's news and media now would it?Posted by SoulBut the people with guns don't stop anything!Posted by VivaciousScorpioI guarantee it would still happen anyway. Quit trying to assume what life here in America would be like. Once more, it's not about the laws of a country. Its about The state of mind of those who occupy it, and we are all fucked.Posted by PalerioI think going to a firing range and shooting guns, crafting your own, taking them apart and putting them back together would be fantastic! I really do.
Idk...
I must admit it was exciting, back in the days, when the owner of a farm allowed me to fire with his rifle.
I don't want more but that was for sure quite an experience I'll always remember.
However, if at the same time school kids and college students are getting massacred on a frequent basis by deranged lone gunman and this is a trend and the government were to ban the sale of guns due to this, I'm gonna be pissed, but I'd understand the reasoning behind it and would recognise instantly it's for the best. It's downright logical.
You would still have mass murder in America. Just in the form of fire, bombs, and other weird shit humans invented to kill. More murder by the cops and more harassment from puppets. Only then no normal people will have guns to stop it. And the cops will be too busy fucking with some non white race to do anything about it.
I've not seen one headline that's read "Heavily armed gunman stopped by heroic dog walker"
Also stop kidding yourself with this fantasy you regular joes are going to stop the evils of the world because you got your trusty side piece with you.click to expand
Posted by QuantumPosted by VivaciousScorpiohttps://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/03/do-civilians-with-guns-ever-stop-mass-shootings/<div class="bqfade">click to expandPosted by SoulShit like that WOULD make the news. Don't kid yourself.Posted by VivaciousScorpioIf they told you happy stories that give you comfort it wouldn't be today's news and media now would it?Posted by SoulBut the people with guns don't stop anything!Posted by VivaciousScorpioI guarantee it would still happen anyway. Quit trying to assume what life here in America would be like. Once more, it's not about the laws of a country. Its about The state of mind of those who occupy it, and we are all fucked.Posted by PalerioI think going to a firing range and shooting guns, crafting your own, taking them apart and putting them back together would be fantastic! I really do.
Idk...
I must admit it was exciting, back in the days, when the owner of a farm allowed me to fire with his rifle.
I don't want more but that was for sure quite an experience I'll always remember.
However, if at the same time school kids and college students are getting massacred on a frequent basis by deranged lone gunman and this is a trend and the government were to ban the sale of guns due to this, I'm gonna be pissed, but I'd understand the reasoning behind it and would recognise instantly it's for the best. It's downright logical.
You would still have mass murder in America. Just in the form of fire, bombs, and other weird shit humans invented to kill. More murder by the cops and more harassment from puppets. Only then no normal people will have guns to stop it. And the cops will be too busy fucking with some non white race to do anything about it.
I've not seen one headline that's read "Heavily armed gunman stopped by heroic dog walker"
Also stop kidding yourself with this fantasy you regular joes are going to stop the evils of the world because you got your trusty side piece with you.
There are lots of cases where normal people take down shooters and other violent people committing crime. Its just they don't make it big because no one gives a shit about the good in the world while they chose to view and dwell on the
Posted by blackphaseOnly in America, but this is Just one more reason why we need guns. Fuck that baby human eating reptile. Where was daddy with his 12 gauge?
And ya'll were concerned about the guns.. It's the Alligators ya should be watching out for ๐
http://www.tmz.com/2016/06/15/disney-attack-alligator-rescue-mission-body/
LOL!!!!
Posted by VivaciousScorpioThat I don't disagree with.Posted by QuantumI'm not saying that at all, nothing is quite so simplistic. But the amount of mass killings would plummet significantly.
But you still haven't proven me wrong.
People will kill people with whatever means they have at their disposal.
Don't get me wrong. I'm a gun owner and I believe we need better laws.
But no guns =/= no mass killings
That's what I'm saying.click to expand
Guns are here to stay for the foreseeable future in the US. They aren't getting back banned.
But there are ways to reduce the mass shootings. Probably even eliminate them while still retaining the integrity of the Second Amendment.
Posted by blackphaseOh fuck...Posted by SoulHe was probably taking a picture of it knowing our society these days.. LolPosted by blackphaseOnly in America, but this is Just one more reason why we need guns. Fuck that baby human eating reptile. Where was daddy with his 12 gauge?
And ya'll were concerned about the guns.. It's the Alligators ya should be watching out for ๐
http://www.tmz.com/2016/06/15/disney-attack-alligator-rescue-mission-body/
LOL!!!!click to expand
Trying to take a selfie while It's in the background for social media..
Posted by VivaciousScorpioPosted by QuantumPosted by VivaciousScorpiohttps://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/03/do-civilians-with-guns-ever-stop-mass-shootings/<div class="bqfade">click to expandPosted by SoulShit like that WOULD make the news. Don't kid yourself.Posted by VivaciousScorpioIf they told you happy stories that give you comfort it wouldn't be today's news and media now would it?Posted by SoulBut the people with guns don't stop anything!Posted by VivaciousScorpioI guarantee it would still happen anyway. Quit trying to assume what life here in America would be like. Once more, it's not about the laws of a country. Its about The state of mind of those who occupy it, and we are all fucked.Posted by PalerioI think going to a firing range and shooting guns, crafting your own, taking them apart and putting them back together would be fantastic! I really do.
Idk...
I must admit it was exciting, back in the days, when the owner of a farm allowed me to fire with his rifle.
I don't want more but that was for sure quite an experience I'll always remember.
However, if at the same time school kids and college students are getting massacred on a frequent basis by deranged lone gunman and this is a trend and the government were to ban the sale of guns due to this, I'm gonna be pissed, but I'd understand the reasoning behind it and would recognise instantly it's for the best. It's downright logical.
You would still have mass murder in America. Just in the form of fire, bombs, and other weird shit humans invented to kill. More murder by the cops and more harassment from puppets. Only then no normal people will have guns to stop it. And the cops will be too busy fucking with some non white race to do anything about it.
I've not seen one headline that's read "Heavily armed gunman stopped by heroic dog walker"
Also stop kidding yourself with this fantasy you regular joes are going to stop the evils of the world because you got your trusty side piece with you.
But again, guns are too easy to obtain, so how many of those deaths would have been prevented from happening in the firs
@VivaciousScorpio I agree...in most cases they are too easy to obtain.
I have a cousin who has a handgun permit.
I wouldn't trust that fucker to drive a car without killing people but the state let him have a gun.
I wouldn't trust that fucker to drive a car without killing people but the state let him have a gun.
Luckily we've got the country boys on our side too. Anyone in the south knows how dangerous alligators are to small pets, children, and even adults. So an alligator walks up in your back yard. You gonna call the cops while it eats your dog or kid? Fuck no you go out there and put a whole clip in it's skull. Then you've got bear, mountain lion, wolf, coyote, horny or angry deer, wild dogs, and all sorts of shit that wants to eat you.
Posted by cheekyfaeriePosted by Sn1p3r187They make that comparison themselves.Posted by VivaciousScorpioPosted by Sn1p3r187True, the murder rate is still 4x lower however in the UK (taken as a percentage per 100,000)
And really, banning guns ain't going to make a difference. Going through mass background checks might help. But it still won't stop it in the long run. A little thing called the black market. I think the U.K has one and guns do get ran in some parts of the U.K and you still end up with some people with guns in the U.K. Mainly in the U.K a majority of violent crimes I've noted there are just fist fights and stabbings, a knife here, an axe there, a fool cut down with a katana there. And in recent years going by statistics the U.K has been a little more violent than the U.S
Also the gun crime is virtually non existent. It still exists but it's incredibly rare. Very rare.
And I imagine people who murder someone with a gun in the U.K get lengthy prison sentences? It is pretty low, but imagine in the Northern part of England people probably have more guns because it's pretty spread out and no one's keeping to close of an eye on them as they are in urban areas. North England to me is like the U.Ks version of the Southern U.Sclick to expand
I've been to England. It was really fun. We went as far Huddersfield and the people and the ways kinda reminded me a little bit of the Southern U.S.
Posted by quarius_xyMaybe its a controlling way to keep certain people in society ready for the worse, because truth be told absolutely nothing says the worst can't happen.
Does owning a gun affect ones mental health? Sure yall dxpers are exceptions but serious question. Does it heigthen the level of paranoia. Does mentality change base on demographic and age..
Posted by VivaciousScorpioThat sucks. I was hoping you could tell me exactly what you feel would happen if the government here actually made it illegal to own a gun. How could they possibly establish it, what would happen to the many who disagree, and what would be the untiment solution for the war the breaks out?Posted by QuantumPeople mention getting mandatory psychological profiles before being able to obtain a gun, but this is going to open an incredible slew of issues and abuses of the system. I'd like to delve into this further and keep discussing but I'm out of fucks to give presently and I'd rather watch the footie. I'll try to pick this back up tomorrow.
@VivaciousScorpio I agree...in most cases they are too easy to obtain.click to expand
Posted by VivaciousScorpioThere's a few states that have enhanced background check laws where the local sheriff is required to review your request to purchase even before a federal background check. And those states have reduced gun crime rates.Posted by QuantumPeople mention getting mandatory psychological profiles before being able to obtain a gun, but this is going to open an incredible slew of issues and abuses of the system. I'd like to delve into this further and keep discussing but I'm out of fucks to give presently and I'd rather watch the footie. I'll try to pick this back up tomorrow.
@VivaciousScorpio I agree...in most cases they are too easy to obtain.click to expand
Federal checks don't catch everything. However the sheriff knows that in the past 2 years, they've been called out to your trailer 5 times for domestic disturbances with your live in girlfriend and you've been picked up for public intox 3 times. While charges have never been filed so there's nothing to show up in the Federal check, that sheriff probably isn't going to let you have a gun.
Posted by QuantumWe always have been fucked, and always will be fucked. It's hard to tell the difference between life and the description of Hell nowadays. They do say the sun is getting hotter. It doesn't matter how much good happens in the world we will always dwell in the evil. Pay more attention to it, let it eat at us and make us fearful till death. And because of that we can't help ourselves from being one of the billions that help make the haywire framework of the machine called human society. Till death do us part. Then again some say we just come right back as something else. Our souls are destined for torture, and the only gift is the past memory when something good finally yet quickly happened.Posted by VivaciousScorpioThere's a few states that have enhanced background check laws where the local sheriff is required to review your request to purchase even before a federal background check. And those states have reduced gun crime rates.Posted by QuantumPeople mention getting mandatory psychological profiles before being able to obtain a gun, but this is going to open an incredible slew of issues and abuses of the system. I'd like to delve into this further and keep discussing but I'm out of fucks to give presently and I'd rather watch the footie. I'll try to pick this back up tomorrow.
@VivaciousScorpio I agree...in most cases they are too easy to obtain.
Federal checks don't catch everything. However the sheriff knows that in the past 2 years, they've been called out to your trailer 5 times for domestic disturbances with your live in girlfriend and you've been picked up for public intox 3 times. While charges have never been filed so there's nothing to show up in the Federal check, that sheriff probably isn't going to let you have a gun.click to expand
Posted by whatthecrabYou can't really use nukes though. You might as well nuke your own country if you're trying to nuke a whole large continent. Imagine the radiation from something big enough to take out any world power. You'd be killing the whole world. It would be suicide, and that's why the world powers have them, so others can't use them.If not for guns think of how many countries could easily invade and attempt take over.Normal citizens who carry guns don't prevent invasion from other countries. To compare nuclear weapons of mass destruction to a firearm is a joke. You might aswell compared it to a random sharp object. It doesn't make sense, I won't get further into that.
Do you know what would happen if you took guns off Americans? The criminals would still have them
True, but gun control does not mean it would prevent criminals from acquiring weapons. Criminals aren't law-abiding citizens. That's why we call them criminals and don't put them in the same box as people with good(for the lack of a better word) intentions re guns. States and local law enforcements should institute and enforce programs to remove illegal firearms(from criminals) in the country.
What I think America needs, IS gun control. How ironic is it that there are more stringent laws in place for people who want to legally drive a car(which isn't designed to kill) than there is for those who want to buy guns. What's even crazier is that convicted felons and people deemed mentally unstable by the courts can still be eligible for a firearms license. That's sick, it's like putting a gun in a killer's hand. There should be laws that say people have to be licensed to safely operate the guns they keep, go through tests and carry a liability insurance.. and lose it for serious infractions.
None of the above is an infringement on people's rights to keep and bear arms by the way. People will still have the right to own guns. What it does is, it makes gun owners responsible owners. Only those who have the mental capacity and willingness to be responsible should be eligible to carry firearms.click to expand
And my biggest concern at this point is how would you establish gun control in America? Once gun owning is illegal how would you force headstrong civilians who refuse to give up their guns give them up without a fight, and if fights and killing gun owners is forced, how do you keep their family's from seeking revenge and starting a revolt?
I actually agree with @whatthecrab.
The idea that citizens with guns are going to stop an invasion OR stop their own government is silly.
Billy Bob: Y'all ain't gonna take our freedum! We's got our AR15s and pistols and shotguns! Come git us!
US Government: AR15s? How cute. Here's a little present for you...
The idea that citizens with guns are going to stop an invasion OR stop their own government is silly.
Billy Bob: Y'all ain't gonna take our freedum! We's got our AR15s and pistols and shotguns! Come git us!
US Government: AR15s? How cute. Here's a little present for you...
Posted by QuantumAn invasion was just one example of a few. Then again we do have countries like North Korea who deeply hate us. One day they will have the ability to launch attack, which may or may not be primitive as in invasion, or large scale as in nuke.
I actually agree with @whatthecrab.
The idea that citizens with guns are going to stop an invasion OR stop their own government is silly.
Billy Bob: Y'all ain't gonna take our freedum! We's got our AR15s and pistols and shotguns! Come git us!
US Government: AR15s? How cute. Here's a little present for you...
Posted by whatthecrabI can agree with that.
Gun control does not mean make owning guns illegal or take away people's constitutional right to bare arms.
It means there will be regulations and rules put on owning them.. with consequences if used poorly. @Soul
Posted by AfternoonDelights22That '... hate them some ideas of stricter gun laws'Posted by MontgomeryThe same could be said for most conservative folks
It is strange though--
Most Liberal-minded folks like to think they
stand in 'solidarity' with those abused by cops.
But cops become suddenly trustworthy when it
comes to having exclusive gun rights.
That doesn't make sense.
that hate them some ideas of stricter gun laws
but shit in their pants when they dont think immigration laws for muslims are not strong enough, claimning theyre dangerous
Suddenly civil rights go out the window!
Makes no sense in the hypocrisy.
Both sides of the political coin lack logic and are sheep.click to expand
BUT
'... shit... when they don't think immigration laws
for Muslims are not strong enough.
๐
Wat?
I love the idea of hot coffee.
I hate the idea of hot ice cream.
That doesn't make me a hypocrite.
Posted by MontgomeryThat was a weak example to try and compare.Posted by AfternoonDelights22That '... hate them some ideas of stricter gun laws'Posted by MontgomeryThe same could be said for most conservative folks
It is strange though--
Most Liberal-minded folks like to think they
stand in 'solidarity' with those abused by cops.
But cops become suddenly trustworthy when it
comes to having exclusive gun rights.
That doesn't make sense.
that hate them some ideas of stricter gun laws
but shit in their pants when they dont think immigration laws for muslims are not strong enough, claimning theyre dangerous
Suddenly civil rights go out the window!
Makes no sense in the hypocrisy.
Both sides of the political coin lack logic and are sheep.
BUT
'... shit... when they don't think immigration laws
for Muslims are not strong enough.
๐
Wat?
I love the idea of hot coffee.
I hate the idea of hot ice cream.
That doesn't make me a hypocrite.
click to expand
Posted by AfternoonDelights22It was meant to be an illustration.Posted by MontgomeryThat was a weak example to try and compare.Posted by AfternoonDelights22That '... hate them some ideas of stricter gun laws'Posted by MontgomeryThe same could be said for most conservative folks
It is strange though--
Most Liberal-minded folks like to think they
stand in 'solidarity' with those abused by cops.
But cops become suddenly trustworthy when it
comes to having exclusive gun rights.
That doesn't make sense.
that hate them some ideas of stricter gun laws
but shit in their pants when they dont think immigration laws for muslims are not strong enough, claimning theyre dangerous
Suddenly civil rights go out the window!
Makes no sense in the hypocrisy.
Both sides of the political coin lack logic and are sheep.
BUT
'... shit... when they don't think immigration laws
for Muslims are not strong enough.
๐
Wat?
I love the idea of hot coffee.
I hate the idea of hot ice cream.
That doesn't make me a hypocrite.
click to expand
Your argument was
Oh cons like stricter THIS but not stricter THAT.
Therefore they're hypocrites.
How so?
Posted by MontgomeryBecause conservatives don't want harsher gun laws under the guise of civil rights, which im not saying they don't have an argument.Posted by AfternoonDelights22It was meant to be an illustration.Posted by MontgomeryThat was a weak example to try and compare.Posted by AfternoonDelights22That '... hate them some ideas of stricter gun laws'Posted by MontgomeryThe same could be said for most conservative folks
It is strange though--
Most Liberal-minded folks like to think they
stand in 'solidarity' with those abused by cops.
But cops become suddenly trustworthy when it
comes to having exclusive gun rights.
That doesn't make sense.
that hate them some ideas of stricter gun laws
but shit in their pants when they dont think immigration laws for muslims are not strong enough, claimning theyre dangerous
Suddenly civil rights go out the window!
Makes no sense in the hypocrisy.
Both sides of the political coin lack logic and are sheep.
BUT
'... shit... when they don't think immigration laws
for Muslims are not strong enough.
๐
Wat?
I love the idea of hot coffee.
I hate the idea of hot ice cream.
That doesn't make me a hypocrite.
Your argument was
Oh cons like stricter THIS but not stricter THAT.
Therefore they're hypocrites.
How so?
click to expand
but then they turn around and want harsher immigration laws or even worse 7 months ago wanted muslims banned from entering the country and suddenly civil rights goes out the window.
So yes, picking and choosing when to be pro civil rights and anti government with one thing and then anti civil rights and pro government on another is indeed pretty darn hypocritical.
Not to mention having recently spent some time in the south, im not sure half the conservatives in the south could actually pass the countries naturalization test themselves, but that's a whole other story.
Posted by CancerOnTheCuspOk, had to look for it and re-read it:Posted by MontgomeryIt's sometimes cognitive dissonance, sometimes intellectual dishonesty.
It is strange though--
Most Liberal-minded folks like to think they
stand in 'solidarity' with those abused by cops.
But cops become suddenly trustworthy when it
comes to having exclusive gun rights.
That doesn't make sense.
There is an article out there titled "A Nation of Cowards". It was written in a time when the arguments were very similar to what are being made today.click to expand
http://jim.com/cowards.htm
Love this passage:
"The liberal elite know that they are philosopher-kings. They know that the people simply cannot be trusted; that they are incapable of just and fair self-government; that left to their own devices, their society will be racist, sexist, homophobic, and inequitable โ and the liberal elite know how to fix things. They are going to help us live the good and just life, even if they have to lie to us and force us to do it. And they detest those who stand in their way.
The private ownership of firearms is a rebuke to this utopian zeal. To own firearms is to affirm that freedom and liberty are not gifts from the state. It is to reserve final judgment about whether the state is encroaching on freedom and liberty, to stand ready to defend that freedom with more than mere words, and to stand outside the state's totalitarian reach. "
That's really what the clamor from some quarters is about.
And that clamor dishonors those who died, and also attempts to squelch/obfuscate debate about addressing the real issue in this tragedy.
Note that this essay was written in 1993, when there was the same drumbeat of arguments in the US then as there is now. The same/similar arguments were used, and the subsequent election in 1994 was in part a rebuke to the attempt to disarm the general populace.
Posted by CancerOnTheCusp
Ok, had to look for it and re-read it:
http://jim.com/cowards.htm
Love this passage:
"The liberal elite know that they are philosopher-kings. They know that the people simply cannot be trusted; that they are incapable of just and fair self-government; that left to their own devices, their society will be racist, sexist, homophobic, and inequitable โ and the liberal elite know how to fix things. They are going to help us live the good and just life, even if they have to lie to us and force us to do it. And they detest those who stand in their way.
The private ownership of firearms is a rebuke to this utopian zeal. To own firearms is to affirm that freedom and liberty are not gifts from the state. It is to reserve final judgment about whether the state is encroaching on freedom and liberty, to stand ready to defend that freedom with more than mere words, and to stand outside the state's totalitarian reach. "
That's really what the clamor from some quarters is about.
And that clamor dishonors those who died, and also attempts to squelch/obfuscate debate about addressing the real issue in this tragedy.
Note that this essay was written in 1993, when there was the same drumbeat of arguments in the US then as there is now. The same/similar arguments were used, and the subsequent election in 1994 was in part a rebuke to the attempt to disarm the general populace.
Nice.
Thanks for posting, link and all.
There's a lot of good stuff in here.
๐
For years, feminists have labored to educate people that rape is not about sex, but about domination,
degradation, and control. Evidently, someone needs to inform the law enforcement establishment and the
media that kidnapping, robbery, carjacking, and assault are not about property.
Crime is not only a complete disavowal of the social contract, but also a commandeering of the victim's person
and liberty. If the individual's dignity lies in the fact that he is a moral agent engaging in actions of his own will,
in free exchange with others, then crime always violates the victim's dignity. It is, in fact, an act of enslavement.
Your wallet, your purse, or your car may not be worth your life, but your dignity is; and if it is not worth fighting for,
it can hardly be said to exist.
Posted by cheekyfaerieDang it! I was going to comment They can have my guns when they take it out of my cold, dead hands.
Despite all the research saying more guns = more gun violence. Yup. Just what we needed. Another "cold, dead hands" thread. รฐลธโขโ
Posted by SoulI live in a nice, peaceful, small town in East Texas. In the nice part of town. Still, crack heads walk up and down the street to the store and back. A house a block away was broken into last week during the day. I work at home. Damn right, I have a pistol on my desk. I will probably never have to use it, but it's there if I need it.
I have to worry wtf the white kid with no shirt, no hair, and tattoos is doing walking down my street eying my house.
Heroin is running rampit in by town. The drugs are taking over, and people are breaking into houses left and right.
Cops are shooting people with no questions asked, and the government let's people like Miely Cyrus become idols for little children.
Once hell breaks lose I won't just bend over and fall on a ditch like a dog.
Posted by blackphaseYou're in fantasy land.
Yes.. but if someone tries to invade.. it's not the citizens that have to take to the streets to protect others, it's the military. And in an Apocalypse situation.. everything is up for grabs. You don't need to have a gun in your house, I'd be hitting the local cop shop and taking whatever I could get my hands on, as most people would.. it would be a free for all.
This is one I can't agree with you on ๐ข
We have harsher laws on guns in Canada, you can still get them, they are just not as accessible.. and we do not have near as many shootings as you guys do.
The closest military base to me is several hours away. I live in a small town, the military is going to focus on the large cities. We will be on our own for the most part.
During an apocalypse, you're already dead because you're not prepared. Don't you think everyone and their dog is going to be hitting the local cop shop, grocery stores...putting up road blocks to steal your stuff...etc. I'm not a prepper by any means, but we do have a plan and basic supplies.
No one is invading the US FFS.
They'd either need to go through Canada or Mexico, neither of which is happening, or mount an amphibious assault. Anyone who has studied history knows how difficult that would be. Operations Neptune and Overlord (The Normandy Landings) were a huge risk and that was just crossing the English Channel...Not an entire fucking ocean.
They'd either need to go through Canada or Mexico, neither of which is happening, or mount an amphibious assault. Anyone who has studied history knows how difficult that would be. Operations Neptune and Overlord (The Normandy Landings) were a huge risk and that was just crossing the English Channel...Not an entire fucking ocean.
Posted by AdmiralI agree with that. I think you should have proof of training before you can buy a gun.
Universal background checks is all I can say and some training on how to handle guns because I have had bad things happen to family members because he was drunk and didn't know how to handle a revolver. He shot his friend and he's in jail now. He went in at the age of 22. He lost the prime of his life.
I'm ok with guns but I am not ok with them falling into the wrong, stupid hands.
In Texas, obviously, a lot of us learn at a young age via exposure what they can do, how they can be dangerous and kids are taught to respect them and leave them alone. We're also taught how to use them. My daddy started taking me out shooting when I was 6, but even before then I knew what they could do.
Posted by CancerOnTheCuspDidn't Hitler disarm Germany?Posted by SoulAnd that's what most people don't want to talk about, especially the power hungry talk about disarming people (while maintaining their own coterie of armed bodyguards, of course).Posted by sultrykittyIt's a great amendment too. The leaders of that time knew what happens to the rich and power hungry, and knew what peacemakers would stop them dead in their tracks.
...and then there's that pesky thing called The Constitution...
Damn 2nd Amendment. ..click to expand
Posted by SoulPosted by QuantumPosted by VivaciousScorpiohttps://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2015/10/03/do-civilians-with-guns-ever-stop-mass-shootings/<div class="bqfade">click to expandPosted by SoulShit like that WOULD make the news. Don't kid yourself.Posted by VivaciousScorpioIf they told you happy stories that give you comfort it wouldn't be today's news and media now would it?Posted by SoulBut the people with guns don't stop anything!Posted by VivaciousScorpioI guarantee it would still happen anyway. Quit trying to assume what life here in America would be like. Once more, it's not about the laws of a country. Its about The state of mind of those who occupy it, and we are all fucked.Posted by PalerioI think going to a firing range and shooting guns, crafting your own, taking them apart and putting them back together would be fantastic! I really do.
Idk...
I must admit it was exciting, back in the days, when the owner of a farm allowed me to fire with his rifle.
I don't want more but that was for sure quite an experience I'll always remember.
However, if at the same time school kids and college students are getting massacred on a frequent basis by deranged lone gunman and this is a trend and the government were to ban the sale of guns due to this, I'm gonna be pissed, but I'd understand the reasoning behind it and would recognise instantly it's for the best. It's downright logical.
You would still have mass murder in America. Just in the form of fire, bombs, and other weird shit humans invented to kill. More murder by the cops and more harassment from puppets. Only then no normal people will have guns to stop it. And the cops will be too busy fucking with some non white race to do anything about it.
I've not seen one headline that's read "Heavily armed gunman stopped by heroic dog walker"
Also stop kidding yourself with this fantasy you regular joes are going to stop the evils of the world because you got your trusty side piece with you.
There are lots of cases where normal people take down shooters and other violent people committing crime. Its just they don't make i
It makes news here, but it's Texas. lol!
There was a guy shooting up the courthouse not far from me and a concealed handgun license carrier put him down immediately. Gunman's victim count was one instead of many. The guy that put him down is a local hero.
There was a guy shooting up the courthouse not far from me and a concealed handgun license carrier put him down immediately. Gunman's victim count was one instead of many. The guy that put him down is a local hero.
Posted by SoulEveryone makes fun of the rednecks, until it comes to something like that.
Luckily we've got the country boys on our side too. Anyone in the south knows how dangerous alligators are to small pets, children, and even adults. So an alligator walks up in your back yard. You gonna call the cops while it eats your dog or kid? Fuck no you go out there and put a whole clip in it's skull. Then you've got bear, mountain lion, wolf, coyote, horny or angry deer, wild dogs, and all sorts of shit that wants to eat you.
Posted by quarius_xyNo. It doesn't affect your mental health to own a gun.
Does owning a gun affect ones mental health? Sure yall dxpers are exceptions but serious question. Does it heigthen the level of paranoia. Does mentality change base on demographic and age..
It doesn't make you more paranoid.
And no, the mentality doesn't change.
Posted by SoulI think Texas would finally secede from the Union if they outlawed guns.Posted by VivaciousScorpioThat sucks. I was hoping you could tell me exactly what you feel would happen if the government here actually made it illegal to own a gun. How could they possibly establish it, what would happen to the many who disagree, and what would be the untiment solution for the war the breaks out?Posted by QuantumPeople mention getting mandatory psychological profiles before being able to obtain a gun, but this is going to open an incredible slew of issues and abuses of the system. I'd like to delve into this further and keep discussing but I'm out of fucks to give presently and I'd rather watch the footie. I'll try to pick this back up tomorrow.
@VivaciousScorpio I agree...in most cases they are too easy to obtain.click to expand
Posted by QuantumStill, it's comforting to be ready for anything. Humans, aliens, government experiments gone wrong, what ever, I'll be ready for the worse and enjoy living during the best. Its literally like a condom. I'd rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it.
No one is invading the US FFS.
They'd either need to go through Canada or Mexico, neither of which is happening, or mount an amphibious assault. Anyone who has studied history knows how difficult that would be. Operations Neptune and Overlord (The Normandy Landings) were a huge risk and that was just crossing the English Channel...Not an entire fucking ocean.
Posted by blackphaseI hear ya. Valid point. No it won't protect you from invaders because of their sheer volume. However, if we are invaded and not locally attacked, I'm pretty sure the supply chain (food) will be cut off. With a gun, you can kill a deer for food.Posted by truecapI'm not in fantasy land, I just don't care enough to need preparation for such events. I'm going to die eventually. Having a gun will not save me if we are invaded.. It's not like there will just be a few people coming to invade, there would be hundreds and jets and such.. Owning a gun would not help me in the least.Posted by blackphaseYou're in fantasy land.
Yes.. but if someone tries to invade.. it's not the citizens that have to take to the streets to protect others, it's the military. And in an Apocalypse situation.. everything is up for grabs. You don't need to have a gun in your house, I'd be hitting the local cop shop and taking whatever I could get my hands on, as most people would.. it would be a free for all.
This is one I can't agree with you on ๐ข
We have harsher laws on guns in Canada, you can still get them, they are just not as accessible.. and we do not have near as many shootings as you guys do.
The closest military base to me is several hours away. I live in a small town, the military is going to focus on the large cities. We will be on our own for the most part.
During an apocalypse, you're already dead because you're not prepared. Don't you think everyone and their dog is going to be hitting the local cop shop, grocery stores...putting up road blocks to steal your stuff...etc. I'm not a prepper by any means, but we do have a plan and basic supplies.click to expand
Someone mentioned history. Let's look at the Revolutionary War. Local militia fought that war.
If it weren't for citizens with guns, we'd be hailing the Queen instead of bashing Obama.
No, I'm not forgetting France's help...but as a community we stood up against the strongest nation in the world at the time.
If it weren't for citizens with guns, we'd be hailing the Queen instead of bashing Obama.
No, I'm not forgetting France's help...but as a community we stood up against the strongest nation in the world at the time.
Posted by truecapWell, the Nazi party in 1938 relaxed restrictions on party members, but Jews were no longer issued permits.Posted by CancerOnTheCuspDidn't Hitler disarm Germany?Posted by SoulAnd that's what most people don't want to talk about, especially the power hungry talk about disarming people (while maintaining their own coterie of armed bodyguards, of course).Posted by sultrykittyIt's a great amendment too. The leaders of that time knew what happens to the rich and power hungry, and knew what peacemakers would stop them dead in their tracks.
...and then there's that pesky thing called The Constitution...
Damn 2nd Amendment. ..click to expand
Here in WV it's now 100% legal to conceal a gun WITHOUT a permit.
I fully agree. If I have to trust my government with their weapons then they should have to trust me, a law abiding tax paying citizen with no criminal history too.
http://freebeacon.com/issues/west-virginia-legalizes-concealed-carry-without-a-permit/
I fully agree. If I have to trust my government with their weapons then they should have to trust me, a law abiding tax paying citizen with no criminal history too.
http://freebeacon.com/issues/west-virginia-legalizes-concealed-carry-without-a-permit/
Posted by blackphaseThere's always crafting spears out of wood, and braiding tree bark fiber together to make string for arrow heads and snare traps. Those are easy tools to make.Posted by truecapThat's true, but I don't think I have it in me. I'd definitely be the weak link that starves. LOLPosted by blackphaseI hear ya. Valid point. No it won't protect you from invaders because of their sheer volume. However, if we are invaded and not locally attacked, I'm pretty sure the supply chain (food) will be cut off. With a gun, you can kill a deer for food.Posted by truecapI'm not in fantasy land, I just don't care enough to need preparation for such events. I'm going to die eventually. Having a gun will not save me if we are invaded.. It's not like there will just be a few people coming to invade, there would be hundreds and jets and such.. Owning a gun would not help me in the least.Posted by blackphaseYou're in fantasy land.
Yes.. but if someone tries to invade.. it's not the citizens that have to take to the streets to protect others, it's the military. And in an Apocalypse situation.. everything is up for grabs. You don't need to have a gun in your house, I'd be hitting the local cop shop and taking whatever I could get my hands on, as most people would.. it would be a free for all.
This is one I can't agree with you on ๐ข
We have harsher laws on guns in Canada, you can still get them, they are just not as accessible.. and we do not have near as many shootings as you guys do.
The closest military base to me is several hours away. I live in a small town, the military is going to focus on the large cities. We will be on our own for the most part.
During an apocalypse, you're already dead because you're not prepared. Don't you think everyone and their dog is going to be hitting the local cop shop, grocery stores...putting up road blocks to steal your stuff...etc. I'm not a prepper by any means, but we do have a plan and basic supplies.click to expand
๐
Posted by truecapThe Continetal Army fought that war, not militias.
Someone mentioned history. Let's look at the Revolutionary War. Local militia fought that war.
If it weren't for citizens with guns, we'd be hailing the Queen instead of bashing Obama.
No, I'm not forgetting France's help...but as a community we stood up against the strongest nation in the world at the time.
Posted by blackphaseAre you a vegetarian or something? Or just love nature??Posted by SoulYes, true. You wouldn't catch me using those on the wildlife either though. I swear I'd starve. ๐Posted by blackphaseThere's always crafting spears out of wood, and braiding tree bark fiber together to make string for arrow heads and snare traps. Those are easy tools to make.Posted by truecapThat's true, but I don't think I have it in me. I'd definitely be the weak link that starves. LOLPosted by blackphaseI hear ya. Valid point. No it won't protect you from invaders because of their sheer volume. However, if we are invaded and not locally attacked, I'm pretty sure the supply chain (food) will be cut off. With a gun, you can kill a deer for food.Posted by truecapI'm not in fantasy land, I just don't care enough to need preparation for such events. I'm going to die eventually. Having a gun will not save me if we are invaded.. It's not like there will just be a few people coming to invade, there would be hundreds and jets and such.. Owning a gun would not help me in the least.Posted by blackphaseYou're in fantasy land.
Yes.. but if someone tries to invade.. it's not the citizens that have to take to the streets to protect others, it's the military. And in an Apocalypse situation.. everything is up for grabs. You don't need to have a gun in your house, I'd be hitting the local cop shop and taking whatever I could get my hands on, as most people would.. it would be a free for all.
This is one I can't agree with you on ๐ข
We have harsher laws on guns in Canada, you can still get them, they are just not as accessible.. and we do not have near as many shootings as you guys do.
The closest military base to me is several hours away. I live in a small town, the military is going to focus on the large cities. We will be on our own for the most part.
During an apocalypse, you're already dead because you're not prepared. Don't you think everyone and their dog is going to be hitting the local cop shop, grocery stores...putting up road blocks to steal your stuff...etc. I'm not a prepper by any means, but we do have a plan and basic supplies.
๐click to expand
Posted by QuantumBattle of Cowpens. King's Mountain.Posted by truecapThe Continetal Army fought that war, not militias.
Someone mentioned history. Let's look at the Revolutionary War. Local militia fought that war.
If it weren't for citizens with guns, we'd be hailing the Queen instead of bashing Obama.
No, I'm not forgetting France's help...but as a community we stood up against the strongest nation in the world at the time.
click to expand
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