Stability and independence

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DividedWeCapricorn
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So my Pisces sun Cap moon S/O confessed to me today about the status of our relationship of 5 months.

Her: I mean you haven't changed at all since I met you and it scares me because there's no stability

Me: How so? I mean I'm gonna be rude here, you never really changed either...

Her: True. Well, stability is basically how I can depend on you, and I can't because my childhood and teenage life is me being independent all the time, I have to take care of my sister, everything! No one told me what's right and what's wrong, and I doubt I can change now.

Me: Don't say that. Of course we can.

Thing is... how?

Like how to make someone more dependent towards the other and not resort to cold silence when it happens? I feel like she can really learn from this as battles aren't meant to be fought alone.

I mean I can also learn independence off her but that's besides the point.
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DividedWeCapricorn
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Posted by MoonshineLeo
i think it depends on who you're with, i dated a pisces sun cap moon and he wanted me to constantly depend on him. Maybe thats the "stability" shes talking about. Sounds toxic to me.
Insightful. Though I just don't want to be her burden and she's not always around since she has to do everything as she's the heiress of the family and she said that's one of the main issues as well.
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DividedWeCapricorn
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Posted by ex0
Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by ex0
i believe this is her cap moon's odd way of saying although she is naturally independent, she wants to feel as though she *could* rely on you.

can i trust you with my money, my belongings, my family, my life (if necessary)? that kinda thing.
So what can I do to make her trust me that way? It's a LDR as well so
she had said you haven't changed, right? what is she referring to exactly?

be demonstrative by maintaining your own life. have your shit together. be your best self. ask her what she needs from you.

click to expand

Personality wise I guess, like I still have old habits and I still do them, idk she said she can write an essay about my negative traits if she wants to
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Firefly
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Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by MoonshineLeo
i think it depends on who you're with, i dated a pisces sun cap moon and he wanted me to constantly depend on him. Maybe thats the "stability" shes talking about. Sounds toxic to me.
Insightful. Though I just don't want to be her burden and she's not always around since she has to do everything as she's the heiress of the family and she said that's one of the main issues as well.
click to expand

yes but she wants to see you need her, she needs that.
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Posted by MoonshineLeo
Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by MoonshineLeo
i think it depends on who you're with, i dated a pisces sun cap moon and he wanted me to constantly depend on him. Maybe thats the "stability" shes talking about. Sounds toxic to me.
Insightful. Though I just don't want to be her burden and she's not always around since she has to do everything as she's the heiress of the family and she said that's one of the main issues as well.
yes but she wants to see you need her, she needs that.
click to expand

I already subconsciously show that by demonstrating Cancer-like clinginess

Though part of me argues it can be mistaken for being childish, she called me childish numerous times already
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Posted by Koniuchaa
Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by Koniuchaa
Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by Koniuchaa
Is she willing to figure it out with you?
She's fixated on the idea that she can't change even though imo its bullshit so
So she can't change but you have to change?
More like she's not sure and I'm trying to find ways for her to change
What are ya'all trying to change anyways?
click to expand

Change our personalities and certain aspects of the relationship so it has more stability and commitment instead of what she describes as a weird relationship with almost no common goal or interest or stability
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Posted by ellesbelles
Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by ellesbelles
Why force things in a certain direction?


So this relationship goes well and takes off well instead of... whatever randomness and weirdness this is now
You are a cap/pisces moon and she is a pisces/cap moon....the two of you are trying to control the current.

Relationships don't have a manual.

Stop that.
click to expand

By controling the current you mean deciding who's in charge of the relationship or how it goes?
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DividedWeCapricorn
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Posted by Koniuchaa
Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by Koniuchaa
Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by Koniuchaa
Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by Koniuchaa
Is she willing to figure it out with you?
She's fixated on the idea that she can't change even though imo its bullshit so
So she can't change but you have to change?
More like she's not sure and I'm trying to find ways for her to change
What are ya'all trying to change anyways?
Change our personalities and certain aspects of the relationship so it has more stability and commitment instead of what she describes as a weird relationship with almost no common goal or interest or stability
That seems strange and impossible. How the heck are you going to change your personalities??

Seems easier to find someone that loves you for who you are. You guys are trying to hard
click to expand

But I mean

Does our relationship have stability at all or are we trying too hard?
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DividedWeCapricorn
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Posted by Koniuchaa
Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by Koniuchaa
Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by Koniuchaa
Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by Koniuchaa
Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by Koniuchaa
Is she willing to figure it out with you?
She's fixated on the idea that she can't change even though imo its bullshit so
So she can't change but you have to change?
More like she's not sure and I'm trying to find ways for her to change
What are ya'all trying to change anyways?
Change our personalities and certain aspects of the relationship so it has more stability and commitment instead of what she describes as a weird relationship with almost no common goal or interest or stability
That seems strange and impossible. How the heck are you going to change your personalities??

Seems easier to find someone that loves you for who you are. You guys are trying to hard
But I mean

Does our relationship have stability at all or are we trying too hard?
I don’t know if it does. What does stability mean to you?
click to expand

I dunno, girlfriend said there's only 1 definition which is to rely on each other but I disagree

Imo, stability is where there's no major change in a relationship, like stagnation almost, but instead of being negative, its positive, because it means there wouldn't be anything to destroy the relationship and peace is what I desire.

Like how sailors go out for sea and those chill sunny days are stability. Unstable relationships are ships that always go through storms, but despite how strong it is, it can break apart, meaning the end of a relationship.
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Posted by UnicornSag
Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by Koniuchaa
Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by Koniuchaa
Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by Koniuchaa
Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by Koniuchaa
Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by Koniuchaa
Is she willing to figure it out with you?
She's fixated on the idea that she can't change even though imo its bullshit so
So she can't change but you have to change?
More like she's not sure and I'm trying to find ways for her to change
What are ya'all trying to change anyways?
Change our personalities and certain aspects of the relationship so it has more stability and commitment instead of what she describes as a weird relationship with almost no common goal or interest or stability
That seems strange and impossible. How the heck are you going to change your personalities??

Seems easier to find someone that loves you for who you are. You guys are trying to hard
But I mean

Does our relationship have stability at all or are we trying too hard?
I don’t know if it does. What does stability mean to you?
I dunno, girlfriend said there's only 1 definition which is to rely on each other but I disagree

Imo, stability is where there's no major change in a relationship, like stagnation almost, but instead of being negative, its positive, because it means there wouldn't be anything to destroy the relationship and peace is what I desire.

Like how sailors go out for sea and those chill sunny days are stability. Unstable relationships are ships that always go through storms, but despite how strong it is, it can break apart, meaning the end of a relationship.
Yes but are you forgetting a fact there are cloudy days and storms as well? You can't expect weather to be always perfect and sunny, that's why you need a strong ship to sail. It won't fall apart from few storms if it's good. It's way more rational to build a good ship than to expect weather to always be nice and sunny. Hope you get the point from this...
click to expand

Yes but it should happen as little as possible, not happen every month because this ship might as well as be the titanic

But how do you build a good ship? I think we're stuck there
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Posted by sultrykitty
I think it's really hard to have an interdependent, stable relationship long distance tbh.

Are you sure that one or both of you might be fantasizing a bit, or not really seeing things clearly? How long are you expecting to stay long distance?
Kinda

I mean I'm trying to see the big picture and so is she, her aspects and overall maturity helps with this as I'm more childish.

We're planning that we can visit each other during 2019 April since we live close (She lives in Montenegro, I live in Portugal).

But she's taking things slow and many obstacles has still not been broken through sadly, but with time it should be possible. She mentioned once we can do naughty things over internet if she wished, to be as real as possible.
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sultrykitty
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Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by sultrykitty
I think it's really hard to have an interdependent, stable relationship long distance tbh.

Are you sure that one or both of you might be fantasizing a bit, or not really seeing things clearly? How long are you expecting to stay long distance?
Kinda

I mean I'm trying to see the big picture and so is she, her aspects and overall maturity helps with this as I'm more childish.

We're planning that we can visit each other during 2019 April since we live close (She lives in Montenegro, I live in Portugal).

But she's taking things slow and many obstacles has still not been broken through sadly, but with time it should be possible. She mentioned once we can do naughty things over internet if she wished, to be as real as possible.
click to expand

It's tough. Not all cap moons are alike for sure, and I think as we get older our perspectives change a lot. I am not sure she wants you to be able to depend on her though. As a woman, especially with a Cap moon, we know that we are dependable and solid and can take care of ourselves. What we *don't* want is to carry water for our man.

We spend a lot of time and energy making sure everyone and everything around us is good. Everyone has what they need, including ourselves.

When I was younger, having a man who was good to me and who I connected with was more important than how he took care of me because I knew I could do that just fine. But as I got older I realized that in my relationships, I wanted to be able to let go of that a little and let someone else pick up the slack for *me*, to let someone take care of some of the things I normally take care of. Being able to trust that someone else can take care of me as well as I take care of myself is a really hard thing to do. Even harder when I can't see the everyday stuff to reinforce that you're up to the job by doing the same for yourself.

I can't say that she's feeling this way or thinking this way, but it is something that does evolve without realizing it. She may br expressing those feelings without knowing the underlying motivation behind them.

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DividedWeCapricorn
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Posted by sultrykitty
Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by sultrykitty
I think it's really hard to have an interdependent, stable relationship long distance tbh.

Are you sure that one or both of you might be fantasizing a bit, or not really seeing things clearly? How long are you expecting to stay long distance?
Kinda

I mean I'm trying to see the big picture and so is she, her aspects and overall maturity helps with this as I'm more childish.

We're planning that we can visit each other during 2019 April since we live close (She lives in Montenegro, I live in Portugal).

But she's taking things slow and many obstacles has still not been broken through sadly, but with time it should be possible. She mentioned once we can do naughty things over internet if she wished, to be as real as possible.
It's tough. Not all cap moons are alike for sure, and I think as we get older our perspectives change a lot. I am not sure she wants you to be able to depend on her though. As a woman, especially with a Cap moon, we know that we are dependable and solid and can take care of ourselves. What we *don't* want is to carry water for our man.

We spend a lot of time and energy making sure everyone and everything around us is good. Everyone has what they need, including ourselves.

When I was younger, having a man who was good to me and who I connected with was more important than how he took care of me because I knew I could do that just fine. But as I got older I realized that in my relationships, I wanted to be able to let go of that a little and let someone else pick up the slack for *me*, to let someone take care of some of the things I normally take care of. Being able to trust that someone else can take care of me as well as I take care of myself is a really hard thing to do. Even harder when I can't see the everyday stuff to reinforce that you're up to the job by doing the same for yourself.

I can't say that she's feeling this way or thinking this way, but it is something that does evolve without realizing it. She may br expressing those feelings without knowing the underlying motivation behind them.

click to expand

She never asks me to depend on her (well she did once, that backfired horribly and she was apologetic about it).

I think the issue is how I told her I'm just as capable of being by her side and doing things she can't do, but she said she can't depend on me because her whole life is basically her playing mom (If we count really loose aspects, she has moon square saturn on a 12' orb) towards her sister who's the same age as me.

She also mentioned her ability to hide emotions well, and how she is a sad and bitter person deep down because she's not used to people telling her what to do.

Her stubbornness and her decision on hiding her anger (Mars opposite Saturn) results in us have issues with communication (Composite Saturn in Aries, 3rd house).

In the end, I think its a mix of stubborness, habits, personality, and lack of trust?
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sultrykitty
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Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by sultrykitty
Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by sultrykitty
I think it's really hard to have an interdependent, stable relationship long distance tbh.

Are you sure that one or both of you might be fantasizing a bit, or not really seeing things clearly? How long are you expecting to stay long distance?
Kinda

I mean I'm trying to see the big picture and so is she, her aspects and overall maturity helps with this as I'm more childish.

We're planning that we can visit each other during 2019 April since we live close (She lives in Montenegro, I live in Portugal).

But she's taking things slow and many obstacles has still not been broken through sadly, but with time it should be possible. She mentioned once we can do naughty things over internet if she wished, to be as real as possible.
It's tough. Not all cap moons are alike for sure, and I think as we get older our perspectives change a lot. I am not sure she wants you to be able to depend on her though. As a woman, especially with a Cap moon, we know that we are dependable and solid and can take care of ourselves. What we *don't* want is to carry water for our man.

We spend a lot of time and energy making sure everyone and everything around us is good. Everyone has what they need, including ourselves.

When I was younger, having a man who was good to me and who I connected with was more important than how he took care of me because I knew I could do that just fine. But as I got older I realized that in my relationships, I wanted to be able to let go of that a little and let someone else pick up the slack for *me*, to let someone take care of some of the things I normally take care of. Being able to trust that someone else can take care of me as well as I take care of myself is a really hard thing to do. Even harder when I can't see the everyday stuff to reinforce that you're up to the job by doing the same for yourself.

I can't say that she's feeling this way or thinking this way, but it is something that does evolve without realizing it. She may br expressing those feelings without knowing the underlying motivation behind them.


She never asks me to depend on her (well she did once, that backfired horribly and she was apologetic about it).

I think the issue is how I told her I'm just as capable of being by her side and doing things she can't do, but she said she can't depend on me because her whole life is basically her playing mom (If we count really loose aspects, she has moon square saturn on a 12' orb) towards her sister who's the same age as me.

She also mentioned her ability to hide emotions well, and how she is a sad and bitter person deep down because she's not used to people telling her what to do.

Her stubbornness and her decision on hiding her anger (Mars opposite Saturn) results in us have issues with communication (Composite Saturn in Aries, 3rd house).

In the end, I think its a mix of stubborness, habits, personality, and lack of trust?
This is the key:

i think the issue is how I told her I'm just as capable of being by her side and doing things she can't do, but she said she can't depend on me because her whole life is basically her playing mom (If we count really loose aspects, she has moon square saturn on a 12' orb) towards her sister who's the same age as me.
click to expand

Ponder this fully. She wants to, but cant give up control of any part of her her life. This is by far the hardest thing for us to do. It's not about you (if in fact you really are able to carry your weight plus some of hers). It isn't about trust really, in the sense that she doesn't think she can trust you. It's deeper and more personal to her than that. If she gives up control and something goes wrong, she'll take the blame, and we don't do well with failure. We don't take on things we're not 100% sure we can handle, and we realize that other people aren't like that.

It isn't stubbornness per se, it's that we take ownership of EVERYTHING in our lives. So it's extremely difficult to give any of that up to anyone, because we just don't believe that anyone can handle things like we do. And that can be seen as a kind of failure (on our part) if they don't.

That's why I said it's hard in a LDR, because she can't *be* with you to see how well you can handle the things that *she* feels are important to her.

I don't know that I'm explaining it well but I hope I am.



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DividedWeCapricorn
@EtherealTraveler
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Posted by sultrykitty
Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by sultrykitty
Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by sultrykitty
I think it's really hard to have an interdependent, stable relationship long distance tbh.

Are you sure that one or both of you might be fantasizing a bit, or not really seeing things clearly? How long are you expecting to stay long distance?
Kinda

I mean I'm trying to see the big picture and so is she, her aspects and overall maturity helps with this as I'm more childish.

We're planning that we can visit each other during 2019 April since we live close (She lives in Montenegro, I live in Portugal).

But she's taking things slow and many obstacles has still not been broken through sadly, but with time it should be possible. She mentioned once we can do naughty things over internet if she wished, to be as real as possible.
It's tough. Not all cap moons are alike for sure, and I think as we get older our perspectives change a lot. I am not sure she wants you to be able to depend on her though. As a woman, especially with a Cap moon, we know that we are dependable and solid and can take care of ourselves. What we *don't* want is to carry water for our man.

We spend a lot of time and energy making sure everyone and everything around us is good. Everyone has what they need, including ourselves.

When I was younger, having a man who was good to me and who I connected with was more important than how he took care of me because I knew I could do that just fine. But as I got older I realized that in my relationships, I wanted to be able to let go of that a little and let someone else pick up the slack for *me*, to let someone take care of some of the things I normally take care of. Being able to trust that someone else can take care of me as well as I take care of myself is a really hard thing to do. Even harder when I can't see the everyday stuff to reinforce that you're up to the job by doing the same for yourself.

I can't say that she's feeling this way or thinking this way, but it is something that does evolve without realizing it. She may br expressing those feelings without knowing the underlying motivation behind them.


She never asks me to depend on her (well she did once, that backfired horribly and she was apologetic about it).

I think the issue is how I told her I'm just as capable of being by her side and doing things she can't do, but she said she can't depend on me because her whole life is basically her playing mom (If we count really loose aspects, she has moon square saturn on a 12' orb) towards her sister who's the same age as me.

She also mentioned her ability to hide emotions well, and how she is a sad and bitter person deep down because she's not used to people telling her what to do.

Her stubbornness and her decision on hiding her anger (Mars opposite Saturn) results in us have issues with communication (Composite Saturn in Aries, 3rd house).

In the end, I think its a mix of stubborness, habits, personality, and lack of trust?
This is the key:

I think the issue is how I told her I'm just as capable of being by her side and doing things she can't do, but she said she can't depend on me because her whole life is basically her playing mom (If we count really loose aspects, she has moon square saturn on a 12' orb) towards her sister who's the same age as me.
Ponder this fully. She wants to, but cant give up control of any part of her her life. This is by far the hardest thing for us to do. It's not about you (if in fact you really are able to carry your weight plus some of hers). It isn't about trust really, in the sense that she doesn't think she can trust you. It's deeper and more personal to her than that. If she gives up control and something goes wrong, she'll take the blame, and we don't do well with failure. We don't take on things we're nit 100% sure we can handle, and we realize that other people aren't like that.

It isn't stubbornness per se, it's that we take ownership of EVERYTHING in our lives. So it's extremely difficult to give any of that up to anyone, because we just don't believe that anyone can handle things like we do. And that can be seen as a kind of failure (on our part) if they don't.

That's why I said it's hard in a LDR, because she can't *be* with you to see how well you can handle the things that *she* feels are important to her.

I don't know that I'm explaining it well but O hope I am





click to expand

I mean its emotional stuff in the end, I can't physically solve her problems, the most I can do is act like an advisor, since as me and my parents noticed, I'm able to give clear analysis and solutions when I'm detached from emotions, and when she's down, affected by her emotions, I serve as a plan B.

Isn't that what couples are expected to do, communication? She isn't talking, she's swallowing her issues and if she can't solve them, results to binge drinking, smoking or ghosting me in the process, sometimes which worries the shit outta me. If she's drunk and out talking about her shit to random strangers, why can't she do it to me?

I feel useless and I have more Cap than her so I feel even worse about it.

P.S: Insensitive but its just irresponsible I guess. I see my mom's shadow in her and my mom sometimes consults me, my aunt (her sister), or her very close friends, but never without talking to my dad once eventually. She doesn't hide stuff from him, most stuff, nor does my mom ghost my dad for god knows what reason. She's a Cap sun Virgo moon but I think she's just as Cap dominant with her iron will.
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sultrykitty
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Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by sultrykitty
Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by sultrykitty
Posted by EtherealTraveler
Posted by sultrykitty
I think it's really hard to have an interdependent, stable relationship long distance tbh.

Are you sure that one or both of you might be fantasizing a bit, or not really seeing things clearly? How long are you expecting to stay long distance?
Kinda

I mean I'm trying to see the big picture and so is she, her aspects and overall maturity helps with this as I'm more childish.

We're planning that we can visit each other during 2019 April since we live close (She lives in Montenegro, I live in Portugal).

But she's taking things slow and many obstacles has still not been broken through sadly, but with time it should be possible. She mentioned once we can do naughty things over internet if she wished, to be as real as possible.
It's tough. Not all cap moons are alike for sure, and I think as we get older our perspectives change a lot. I am not sure she wants you to be able to depend on her though. As a woman, especially with a Cap moon, we know that we are dependable and solid and can take care of ourselves. What we *don't* want is to carry water for our man.

We spend a lot of time and energy making sure everyone and everything around us is good. Everyone has what they need, including ourselves.

When I was younger, having a man who was good to me and who I connected with was more important than how he took care of me because I knew I could do that just fine. But as I got older I realized that in my relationships, I wanted to be able to let go of that a little and let someone else pick up the slack for *me*, to let someone take care of some of the things I normally take care of. Being able to trust that someone else can take care of me as well as I take care of myself is a really hard thing to do. Even harder when I can't see the everyday stuff to reinforce that you're up to the job by doing the same for yourself.

I can't say that she's feeling this way or thinking this way, but it is something that does evolve without realizing it. She may br expressing those feelings without knowing the underlying motivation behind them.


She never asks me to depend on her (well she did once, that backfired horribly and she was apologetic about it).

I think the issue is how I told her I'm just as capable of being by her side and doing things she can't do, but she said she can't depend on me because her whole life is basically her playing mom (If we count really loose aspects, she has moon square saturn on a 12' orb) towards her sister who's the same age as me.

She also mentioned her ability to hide emotions well, and how she is a sad and bitter person deep down because she's not used to people telling her what to do.

Her stubbornness and her decision on hiding her anger (Mars opposite Saturn) results in us have issues with communication (Composite Saturn in Aries, 3rd house).

In the end, I think its a mix of stubborness, habits, personality, and lack of trust?
This is the key:

I think the issue is how I told her I'm just as capable of being by her side and doing things she can't do, but she said she can't depend on me because her whole life is basically her playing mom (If we count really loose aspects, she has moon square saturn on a 12' orb) towards her sister who's the same age as me.
Ponder this fully. She wants to, but cant give up control of any part of her her life. This is by far the hardest thing for us to do. It's not about you (if in fact you really are able to carry your weight plus some of hers). It isn't about trust really, in the sense that she doesn't think she can trust you. It's deeper and more personal to her than that. If she gives up control and something goes wrong, she'll take the blame, and we don't do well with failure. We don't take on things we're nit 100% sure we can handle, and we realize that other people aren't like that.

It isn't stubbornness per se, it's that we take ownership of EVERYTHING in our lives. So it's extremely difficult to give any of that up to anyone, because we just don't believe that anyone can handle things like we do. And that can be seen as a kind of failure (on our part) if they don't.

That's why I said it's hard in a LDR, because she can't *be* with you to see how well you can handle the things that *she* feels are important to her.

I don't know that I'm explaining it well but O hope I am






I mean its emotional stuff in the end, I can't physically solve her problems, the most I can do is act like an advisor, since as me and my parents noticed, I'm able to give clear analysis and solutions when I'm detached from emotions, and when she's down, affected by her emotions, I serve as a plan B.

Isn't that what couples are expected to do, communication? She isn't talking, she's swallowing her issues and if she can't solve them, results to binge drinking, smoking or ghosting me in the process, sometimes which worries the shit outta me. If she's drunk and out talking about her shit to random strangers, why can't she do it to me?

I feel useless and I have more Cap than her so I feel even worse about it.
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Strangers aren't expected (in her mind) to view her as strong. So it may be easier to express those things to them and when she's a little less inhibited.

I think something like this just takes time. I still have trouble being vulnerable with my SO, or anyone really. When it happens it's like releasing floodgates that takes an act of God to close. Then I'm spent.

Maturity is going to play a big part in this too. You're both pretty young. Just keep doing what you're doing. She may just have to deal with her stuff her way and you'll have to do your best to let her, even if it worries you. You can express your concerns, but we do generally handle our shit pretty well. Even when we go off the rails a bit , it not typical that we stay there. Pisces might encourage that more than my sun sign, but even when I had phases where I completely checked out, I knew my limit and could pretty quickly get myself back on track. Just having someone there who cares is all we really need.