Grudges

I've spent the last 4 decades, give or take a few years, trying to understand something about the Scorpion grudge. Now, before I start, I want everyone to understand, I'm not faulting you or trying to offend .. just to understand.

My father did not speak to my brother for all that time .. refused to even acknowledge that his son was his flesh and blood. For ages, I tried to repair the damage in whatever way I could, to no avail .. my Scorpion father did not budge. So, I'm trying to figure out why?

Is there just some principals that once crossed, there's no redemption?

Is it a "waiting" for the other person to concede and apologize first?

My brother is a Cancer with Pisces moon and therefore VERY emotional .. is there some kind of detestment for weak men who behave like sissy-boys?

Is there a sort of embarrassment of actions that is too difficult to overcome?

Of course, you don't know the story .. but, I was hoping that somebody in here would be able to shed some light on why something can be held "forever" against a family member? What would make one of you do this "forever"? I tried asking my dad, but, he didn't even acknowledge his son exists, so he ignored the topic.

Again, I'm just trying to figure this out .. if I had an idea, I could at least try and soothe my brother over, so he can find peace.

And another thing .. what happened to rockchic .. did Blingy give her his std?

lol

I just know how much Blingy Lurvs promiscuious people who spread their nastiness around.

lol

Just being a snit .. the only I really wanted to know is about the grudge thingy.

I would not call it a grudge...I would call it being DONE.

I am in that position at the present time. I am currently DONE with my sister, I have forgiven and forgiven her to many times, and recently was the last straw. I have removed myself from my life with her although I still love her and she still has the title of my sister. But conversations, hanging out etc. I no longer can do those things with her.

I did go through the same thing with my mother,(gemini) and older sister (taurus), but I never claim to be done with them, but with my younger sister I am DONE, I did not speak to my mother or my older sister for about 3-4 months.

I can't say how long it will take me to associate myself with my younger sister again. All I know is right know I don't want to be around her or see her and if I do I will be cordial but that is as far as it goes.

I believe the hurt/pain of a love one that a scropio feels, is very deep and it takes a while to heal. I believe that people take our kindness as a weakness, and then be blown when we walk away and never look back.

I know if I ever speak to my sister again it will never be the same I will never trust her ever again.

I guess I held grudges when I was younger but later found they have far too much negative energy attached to them and thus can't be bothered with it all now..I actually don't care enough now to hold a grudge..LOL..forgive we may, forget NEVER..

However having said that, in answer to your questions:

Is there just some principals that once crossed, there's no redemption? - Yes our principles..nobody knows them..they are just there abide them or suffer the consequences..(silent treatment, full blown lashing..whatever takes our fancy)

Is it a "waiting" for the other person to concede and apologize first? - Yes Scorps never say sorry (unless they can feel beyond reasonable doubt they were at fault)

I don't know about others but I cannot stand weak people..Help is at hand as we are all about helping and transforming an individual but if we detect victim mentality or just pathetic weak nature having offered the help..we usually just leave you to your own devices and think of you a total loser!

Is there a sort of embarrassment of actions that is too difficult to overcome? - Yeah they become an embarrassment and we wish no association with them..

However I love my family very dearly and would never wish abandonment of any sort...Saying that they are all a bunch of angels in my eyes..Of course I fault them when needed but generally they are a good bunch.

P.s that was my personal view, not the general scorpionic public..

Peace out..

EG: "My b/f though, as angry as he gets sometimes is absolutely incapable of holding a grudge"

Anger is a release..so therefore no need to harbour resentment.

Its all about respect..if we lose that for the individual..EVERYTHING else ceases to exist..for me anyway..

"Its all about respect..if we lose that for the individual..EVERYTHING else ceases to exist..for me anyway.."

I think that is what I was trying to say about my sister. I have no respect, trust, I feel nothing for her, So I am done, I can't help her I can't do nothing for her ever again.

I get the part about family but I feel sometimes you just have to let family members go.

I could hold grudges for anyone all my life till he apologises or something like that..But i won`t ever ever hold grudge for any of my family member,no matter what he/she did or does to me..

Hhmmmmmm....very interesting, thanks for responding, everyone.

You may have it something there, mm, with the respect thing. The "done" part, I can't imagine would be it because this was my father's son .. all children screw up, from time to time, so as a parent, I can't fathom that my father would have taken that position. When this "event" happened, my brother wasn't an adult ... but, respect?

Still, though, certainly we've all done things disrespectful when we were younger that we wouldn't do once matured .. however, maybe my dad saw something, a trait of some kind that had been going on for a long time and he thought it would carry-over into adulthood, for I was much younger and didn't always see, or comprehend, what was going on. And perhaps this "event" was merely the final straw.

But, when my mother talked about it .. her words were slanted in a disrespectful angle. Wow, that's a tough one .. my purpose was to try and help my brother put this in perspective and you guys really helped .. but, how in the heck do I tell him that he might have lost his father's respect?

I'll have to think on that one .. thanks again.

I have a similar relationship (or lack there of) with my father (having not seen or spoken to him in 10 years)... It is not so much a grudge, like Scorpionlady says. It is being merely done.

In my case, removing myself from a constant source of severe emotional pain. As I grew older, I tried to push it back to him (the "vindication" route), but at some point I realized that any relationship with him was unhealthy. I could do nothing, and merely live with the pain. I could try to hurt him back, but while that may temporarily transform the pain (into anger and spite), as long as I allowed him in my life and in my thoughts it would always be there. And it would eventually eat me alive...

So, I walked away and have not seen or spoken to him since. And I try hard not to think about him, for everytime I do, it returns the same as before (even after 10 years)...

I will answer more in detail about the respect thing P-angel..right now my movie is on..and am watching it..LOL

"Anger is a release..so therefore no need to harbour resentment."

Sometimes, sometimes not...

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On a side note, I do have a similar relationship with my older sister that Scorpionlady has with her younger one. This is not do to pain, but merely being fed up (again DONE).

I refuse to waste effort on someone that has shown time and time again that they are incapable of having a functional relationship and doesn't give a damn if they do have a relationship with that person (except when they want / need something, and if you do want a relationship with them, then you are expected to give it).

* due to

"This is not do to pain, but merely being fed up (again DONE). " - hmmmm....no agreement on that. Because there IS pain involved - and disappointment and feeling let down by them. If you didn't feel anything - you'd go back again and again. Because it wouldn't matter.

Hrmmm... I suppose that is possible.

I just think of it as getting tired of a situation that I have no control over, no ability to achieve even a modicum of what I want or deserve out of it, and no forseeable end to those facts. With my father, I can still feel the pain and hurt, but with her, I am not entirely certain I feel anything. It feels like a fact...like "what is, is". If that makes any sense...

I doubt it will last forever... Merely until the situation / she changes, if ever.

Yes, he is .. he thinks he fools everybody by being non-chalant and indifferent ..

But, he's not tricking me .. he's really a sweet and sensitive bloke, who takes a lot more consideration than most men .. especially for those Yorkies (?)

What's Yorkshire blokes called?

yeah, i can relate a little to the grudge thing.

but what would happen if the person that you loved, that you held a grudge against, were to die? then what? how would you feel then? ask yourself that before you keep wasting precious time and energy and love on a grudge.

think of what you are doing. live each day as if it were the last.

don't hold grudges...they hurt the ones you love, but most of all, THEY HURT YOU.

My father and brother have been permantly parted by death .. the bridge CANNOT be mended in this plane of existance .. one can only hope that in another level of living, their hearts can be bonded again.

In the meantime .. I have to figure out a way to mend my brother .. this has damaged his whole adult life .. he's lost now that's he going through a mid-life crisis and the injury is extremely deep .. I don't know how to help him.

"but what would happen if the person that you loved, that you held a grudge against, were to die? then what?"

Then it would be their loss (speaking personally, no disrespect for PA's situation intended)...

I do not hold grudges. I remove myself from self-destructive situations... I bear none of them any ill will or misfortunes. I merely cannot continue to place myself in situations that have no other possible outcome than harm to me (and where the person causing the harm doesn't give a damn)...

"In the meantime .. I have to figure out a way to mend my brother .. this has damaged his whole adult life .. he's lost now that's he going through a mid-life crisis and the injury is extremely deep .. I don't know how to help him."

I don't really know what to tell you... I detailed my situations in hopes of giving you at the very least a better idea of possible motivations. That being said, even if our answers did help you to perhaps figure out why your father did that, I am not quite sure it would help you much.

I wish you luck in trying to help your brother...

So, it's like a self-protection mechanism?

That makes sense .. I do the same, only mine is by submerging myself into an illusionary world so I don't have to face whatever it is .. though, not the same in one sense .. in another, it IS ignoring. I certainly can understand that a person has to take care of theirselves. At the end of the day .. a person still has to live with and look out for themselves.

From all the responses in here .. it just sounds like a self preservation thing.

It has helped, Alcheme .. because I now have a handle on "what" it is .. I'm still not sure on how I'm going to approach this .. but, perhaps, I can use the example of this "self-preservation" thing, just like with him and his crab shell, my dreams .. dad just felt that he had to protect himself.

I don't know .. I have to chew on it for awhile .. however, all the responses did give me some insight. Thanks !! 🙂

"I do not hold grudges. I remove myself from self-destructive situations... I bear none of them any ill will or misfortunes. I merely cannot continue to place myself in situations that have no other possible outcome than harm to me (and where the person causing the harm doesn't give a damn)..."

I so agree. I still love my sister but I just can't deal with her and I don't know when and if I could ever.

I disagree. To me, a grudge is something that you think about. To me, a grudge is intended to harm another person. To me, a grudge is a form of vengeance.

The noun grudge has one meaning:

Meaning #1: a resentment strong enough to justify retaliation
Synonyms: score, grievance

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The verb grudge has 2 meanings:

Meaning #1: bear a grudge; harbor ill feelings
Synonym: stew

Meaning #2: accept or admit unwillingly

As I stated:
"I bear none of them any ill will or misfortunes."

P-Angel,

All signs hold grudges. Personally I don't have a grudge against anyone, although if someone hurts me, I find ways to make sure it does not happen again.

For example, my ex really hurt me and I hated him for a long time...then when the pain was over I decided not to talk to him because he is part of my past, and I am a in-the-moment woman. I pray for him and hope he finds someone who can make him happy.

Sorry, I didn't mean any offense. Scorpionlady was agreeing with my statement, so I figured you meant both of us...

Perhaps there is no difference. Who knows...

"Yes Scorps never say sorry"

Maybe thatz Specific to U Doctor. Cant be categorized as an achievement though.

" we are all about helping and transforming an individual but if we detect victim mentality or just pathetic weak nature having offered the help..we usually just leave you to your own devices and think of you a total loser!"

Therez an inherent contradiction in that statement. Transformation should be complete and holistic. If U offer help and desert upon detection of some sort of flaw, then the process/approach itself isnt honest and truly transformational. U dont have a magic wand which can metamorphize an individual, but I believe that itz the intensity,resolve and passion which U guys work with which helps in surmounting obstacles and bring about a major change. If U decide against investing such emotion while attributing this avolition to somebody else's weakness, then perhaps either U r trying to escape responsible action or U arent confident enuf of Ur own calibre.

If at all ( astrologically speaking ) U folks are associated with transformation, control, bearing pain, etc. then I dont see any rationale` behind holding grudges and fixing blame on others and in fact it sounds very paradoxical. The kind of huge premium U stand to command from leveraging the positive traits entails sacrifice and forbearance as well. Such stature is not easy to come by and one has to shed some flesh just to reach there.

Well Notso, on hindsight I realize that Scorps ( not a generalization ) are normally righteously in control and seldom get into situations where they have to offer apologies. But there definitely are some sour spots like - vengeance and grudges.

GA,

Given that you are not a Scorp, what is a grudge to you?

Just curious, since we are on the subject...

Alcheme

To me, grudge is something which makes U forget/ignore Urself and compels U to commit energies to the act of revenge/reaction. It prevents U from taking an objective view of Ur own shortcomings and identify various other possible root-causes to be ascribed to a given malady. Grudge is a pre-mature closure on the problem-solving effort and is actually a product of an embittered "self" trying to deflect blame and shut out introspection.

Grudge can be a mis-understanding,diffidence, and it can be about communication gaps as well. It can be about distance ( mental and physical ), interests, pride and situations too.

Agreed Notso...U may not actively seek revenge or U may not be in a position to extract one. The very thought can influence the way U act/react in the future, though.

"To me, grudge is something which makes U forget/ignore Urself and compels U to commit energies to the act of revenge/reaction. It prevents U from taking an objective view of Ur own shortcomings and identify various other possible root-causes to be ascribed to a given malady. Grudge is a pre-mature closure on the problem-solving effort and is actually a product of an embittered "self" trying to deflect blame and shut out introspection.

Grudge can be a mis-understanding,diffidence, and it can be about communication gaps as well. It can be about distance ( mental and physical ), interests, pride and situations too."

Both impressively well thought out and intriguing. Food for thought... I am sure that I will be chewing on that for a while.

Thanks!

"Holding a grudge does not necessarily mean you seek revenge."

While I agree, I do believe that holding a grudge means that you harbor resentment and / or bitterness. Though I am not quite sure about pain / hurt, I tend to gravitate towards not, as I am not quite sure how one would not.

"I think that people may confuse that with something that I'm holding in my heart when reality is that I set you free."

I agree...

I don't hold grudges. If I dislike the way someone is acting, and this is a repeated problem for me, I'll extricate that person from my life. After I've reached the point at which I've had enough, I'll ignore that person. Buh-bye! I'm not going to focus my energy on someone who doesn't give me the same treatment that I give in kind.

G: "Transformation should be complete and holistic. If U offer help and desert upon detection of some sort of flaw, then the process/approach itself isnt honest and truly transformational"

Its not about deserting upon detection of new flaw, its whether you sense your advice, efforts, action is helping the individual..actually registering..If it isn't, what is the point? If the individual isn't willing to help themselves then well to me they are a lost cause and I haven't personally got any time for them any longer..my time is precious..

In my opinion Scorpios are the only sign to overcome the most unbearable of pains..and its a total thrill...

i'm similar to a lot of the opinions here - i don't hold grudges, too much energy is sucked out of me to maintain a grudge. it is painful, and consuming - and easiest to simply let the pain go.

not having the person in my life that caused the pain just seems to happen as a natural consequence. maybe out of sight, out of mind? whatever, they're just no longer on my radar. that's not to say i will never talk to them again, i just wouldn't make the effort to do it first.

when it comes to family, it would take something major for me to have a grudge and hold on to the anger & pain. i don't have a relationship with my biological father, and he is 'off my radar', but whenever something happens to make me think of him i still bristle, so i suppose i have grudge in the backburner ... and i say 'backburner' coz i won't let the grudge poison other areas of my life

and in writing this i've just realized something ... when i hold a grudge it means a part of me still cares. when i let it go, it means i'm indifferent and i couldn't care less about the other person.

you asked if it makes a difference whether someone concedes and apologizes first. in my case my father did try, and i was willing to listen. however, there was no follow up on his part and therefore we have no relationship. he was all talk and no substance. so that's why i cannot be bothered... maybe now that more time has passed and if he tried again, i might be willing to hear him out.

strangely enough, when it comes to my family - and by that i mean my mother and 2 sisters, as my biological father has not been part of the family since i was 4 - i'm usually the peacekeeper ... same thing that you are doing for your father & brother.

whenever i'm trying to heal a rift in my family, i usually go to my sisters first and get them to apologize even if my mother is in the wrong ... my mom (virgo) does carry monster grudges, and she will go without talking to one of my sisters for years. she seems to alternate between the two. during these times, whenever i bring up my sister, she gets angry so i know it's not because she doesn't care, she just feels deeply disrespected. and she also has a lot of pride, so she will never concede first. in her case, it's pride that stops her from contacting my sisters, but once they make the first move, she makes them squirm for awhile, then she starts talking to them again.

truthfully ms morrals? Or the most to be counted on to find/create unbearable pains? lol Karma seems to take a devoted fixation to you all....but I must admit, you do very well, outstandingly so; most times you surprise me with your practicality, and firm principles....most interesting. You were given these tools for the life you all had ahead; the road is long and hard, but you guys pull through, and this I can bow unto. If only I could train you to take it in stride.....

*grabs leash, and pincer muzzles*

I've actually cornered people alone....I wait for an instant when they are alone, and most vulnerable and strike; afterwards it's war on them everytime afterwards....I've done some BAD THINGS.....I choked another kid untill he passed out....and enjoyed it....something about 'putting him in his place' did something to me....which is why I restrain from fighting; I HATE THAT PART OF MYSELF. My Scorp father asked/told me;

'are you a monster? Have you no feelings? How the hell could you do that?' He was really upset by that....I'll never forget that.

I don't like that feeling; I can hold grudges like nobody's buisness....I really feel that something is wrong with me....I burn with this flame inside me when I encounter a hated person.....I want to strike fear into them, and terrorize them.....I've been a prick to my dad....I'm trying to forgive the guy but damn these memories; I've gotta go with what I know about him, and I KNOW HE CAN'T BE TRUSTED; anyone else who sides with him I cast away as well; good ridance.....side with a loser, and you will become that loser. I can cut people loose becuase I never hold them so tight, do as you will; I'm also too damned proud to relent....I always told myself 'I'm not going to be the hot blooded youth' but yet here I am.....

Virgoexalted: "Or the most to be counted on to find/create unbearable pains?"

Nobody goes out there looking for trouble. Not even us!!..LOL. Its true we plunge in at the deep end..but you know what, it actually makes us stronger so personally for me, thats why I do it..can't speak for everyone..Best way to learn is being thrown in at the deep end

lol....perhaps we aren't so far off from each other....I can say that every thing that's been thrown my way I've usually turned it in my favor; I suppose it's true what they say MM.....I've said before:

'what don't kill ya makes ya stronger'

It's cool; I understand that....I would rather struggle, than to be comfortable...I cannot live knowing that I ran away from something.....I would rather die than to know that I was defeated by something....loss is inevitable yes, but for some reason I can't accept 2nd place.....not even within myself....I feel as if I sorta disgust myself...

'what don't kill ya makes ya stronger' - Never has a truer statement been spoken..

I don't know, you remind me of a a Taurus..not Virgo..Hmmmm

lol

(Spreads wings to MM's Dismay)

I've got Cappy Rising, and Mars in Aries

"(Spreads wings to MM's Dismay)

I've got Cappy Rising, and Mars in Aries"

Hooray I would say!..not dismay..lol

Knew there was some fire igniting you somewhere..long live the Aries Mars..