Let's Talk About Sex :) (Page 2)

"This isn't the same as a young love, or an attraction ... this is a marriage of 25 years, so, we've progressed past all the insecurities, and adjustment period of getting to know each other."

You have yet to answer this question: WHY are you unhappy? WHAT do you need?

LOL.....and I have no right to give you advice P-Angel. I cant even get a boyfriend right now let alone give advice on a 25 year marriage....LMAO....I just thought about that. 🙂

"So, this is the reason for the celebacy .. it's not a punishment, though perhaps, I made it sound that way .. it's more about getting him to realize that it's finished."

You dont understand.(or maybe you do) HE isnt the one that wants to let it go, so he's not going to ever let go. YOU are going to have to leave him in order for him to let go. That's the why Virgo's work. We wont leave unless it's OUR idea to leave and get out. Other wise, you have to hit us with reality and leave us in order for us to "get it". Cutting off the sex and giving him more time is not going to work. Because in his mind, he might be thinking that staying around will show you how much he loves you, and then you'll want to stay. I dont even think that it'a an issue of his sign. But that's just the way it is period. When it's not mutual, it's hard for the other person to let go.

lol, no problem, Southern .. I'm always open to hear what other people think. You never know .. you might hit on something that makes me stop and take notice .. such as this "unconditional love" thing. Though, I don't believe in it .. I'll certainly ponder over the validity.

I'm not set in ways ... wide open.

I'm uncertain why I'm unhappy .. perhaps, we've just experienced everything there is to learn, or gain, or enjoy from each other. This is why marriage shouldn't be forever .. what if forever meant hell?

If you were with a person and your life was pure hell ... would you still believe it should be forever? I'm not suggesting my life is hell, far from it .. I'm just saying, when it's over .. it's over, and a person should be open to realize that marriage isn't suppose to be until death parts them .. if it was, there would be no divorces.

Actually, it's not uncommon for a woman my age to go through this transformation during mid-life ... when hormones change, so do our desires .. it could all be something that isn't even within my control, and perhaps that would make sense as to why I'm uncertain .. because I can't find a reason.

"We wont leave unless it's OUR idea to leave and get out."


Right and since he's male .. I figured being cut-off would hit him enough below the belt to make the decision that HE wants out.

My plan was flawed ... he can handle being sexless !!!!
I figured if it was his idea to ask for a divorce .. then he wouldn't be hurt .. it didn't work.

That's what I get for expecting ... shit doesn't work, I'm telling you. If you expect something .. you're foolish, such as me.

Oh well .. this was suppose to be about sex .. hijacked another thread, sorry !!

"I can't find a reason. My plan was flawed ... he can handle being sexless !!!!"

Let me say this: Most people spend an entire life time trying to find unconditional love. Only a small percentage of us are blessed to receive and experience it. You have this right now. Enjoy it and appreciate it and embrace it. Because if you walk away from this man, you may NEVER experience it again. And not only that, realize this: What you have right now in the palm of your hands, there are plenty of people in this world who are alone & lonley and can only "dream" about having what you already have.

Is it truly worth it?

"Oh well .. this was suppose to be about sex .. hijacked another thread, sorry !!"

Not a problem. The man above works in mysterious ways. 🙂

"Oh well .. this was suppose to be about sex .. hijacked another thread, sorry !!"

It doesnt bother me. It's more important that you get things off your chest and possibly save your marriage. Another example of "unconditional love"...putting someone else's needs before your own.....You'll understand it and appreciate one day. Hopefully. 🙂

"The man above works in mysterious ways."

Man? Humph ....

"Because if you walk away from this man, you may NEVER experience it again. And not only that, realize this: What you have right now in the palm of your hands, there are plenty of people in this world who are alone & lonley and can only "dream" about having what you already have."


It's actually quite simple to secure ... the reason why other people can't find harmony in a relationship is because their mind is closed to preconcieved expectations .. how can they win?

"It's more important that you get things off your chest and possibly save your marriage."

This is age-old ... however, I'm hoping for you to be able to glean some insight into what happens in life.

Love isn't about forever, for life is about changing .. without change, we become stale, stagnant .. we stop flourishing and become yesterday's news. You want your yesterdays to be just as beautiful as your todays, for it's through reflection of the union that respect is gained, not goals for tomorrow.

For love to end is apart of life ... so live it for today, not tomorrow, live it before it has to come to an end.

Where you're trying to get me to have a desire to continue in my marriage .. I'm trying to get you to realize that by attempting to put a man on the same page as you, with the intentions of making a life-long commitment will send him packing, for life is about growth and evolution .. not an expectation that is set, locked and bound.

Through being willing to be open to go with the flow of the union, without focusing on how he feels about you ... you will find that it is the absence of this emotional burden that will keep him .. that is, until the experience is over.

My aim here isn't to get someone to have sympathy ... rather, to show you that 25 years of commitment, with respect can be secured by NOT putting pressure on the man by attempting to force him to make a solemn vow about your tomorrows.

As each day passes .. you both will look back to yesterday, and all your yesterdays were about loving each other NOT emotional burdens, worrying about years to come ... and as you both see this in hindsight, you will cherish each other more.

Somewhere along the way .. I got side-tracked and started talking about my unhappiness .. sorry about that. Not to worry .. when enough time has passed and he has come to terms with our partnership being over, he will accept it for what it is.

That's a good point, brad. I think danger or the threat of death might actually enhance a relationship.

In fact, I've seen it first hand. I just wish for once that the girl would be the one in danger for a change.

I don't know how that had any relevance but we have killers for many reasons. Some do it for money and others seek vengance. It could be a gesture of mercy or a sadistic thrill.

"I just wish for once that the girl would be the one in danger for a change."

I didn't really mean that comment. I was just being silly.

Have you been waiting here all night for my response? Lol.

Hmm... Who else do I know whose 43 and from Europe? *Scratches head*

When I clicked on this thread I expected pictures and stuff. I was mislead. The title is misleading.

"Through being willing to be open to go with the flow of the union, without focusing on how he feels about you ... you will find that it is the absence of this emotional burden that will keep him .. that is, until the experience is over."

Ok, I understand and accept this.


Love isn't about forever, for life is about changing .. without change, we become stale, stagnant .. we stop flourishing and become yesterday's news. You want your yesterdays to be just as beautiful as your todays, for it's through reflection of the union that respect is gained, not goals for tomorrow.

THIS, I do not agree with necessarily. You are essentially saying that people change. OK, granted they do. And what I am saying is that, when you are ALREADY in a committed relationship (not just simply dating), then you have to be willing to fall in love with that person all over again. Common sense tells us that who we married 25 years ago WILL not and CAN not be that same person from 25 years ago. But starting 25 years ago, you and that person became ONE. You are both responsible for your continued growth as individuals and you are BOTH responsible for adding to the growth of your partner. The learning, growing and changing never ceases. Your possiblilities should not be exhausted after 25 years. It's not enough for either party to say "well I dont think I love him/her or want him/her anymore because they arent a reflection of the "preconceived" thoughts or the same person they were yesterday". If someone, and this is SIMPLY MY OPINION, but if someone has forever-changing expectations, (beyond naturally challeging you partner to grow), if a person has forever-changing expectations, then they will NEVER be happy or satisfied. And of course what you wanted and needed as a woman 25 years ago is not the same as you needs and wants today. But my point is, somewhere down the line, they two of you lost touch and stopped cultivating the marriage. And I'm sorry but I still stick by what I said earlier: Your thoughts become your actions. If you have in your mind that marriage isnt supposed to last forever, then your not even going to bother putting forth the amount of effort that it takes for it to last forever. It's like you dont even believe in love itself anymore instead of challenging yourself to fall in love with this man all over again 25 years later. You know that this man is in love with you and now that he's in love with you, you loose respect for him because he wont leave—

"Love isn't about forever, for life is about changing"

And this is were you come to learn about uncondiational love. And I do not believe in unconditional love playing a major part in the simple dating phases. But inside of a committed relationship and marriage, uncondiational love will start to present itself. No love itself is not about forever, but unconditional love is will to embrace the fact that "life is about changing". And a marriage is the safest environment to explore this kind of love, because if your not willing to understand AND give AND understand that YOU deserve this kind of love, then THAT is were marriages end.

It's simple:

Love = I love you for who you are right now at this moment
Unconditional Love = I am willing to love you for whoever you may be tomorrow.


I mean it's like a man loving a woman when she weighs 125 lbs but then NOT willing to love her when she's 200 lbs. What gives??

"Somewhere along the way .. I got side-tracked and started talking about my unhappiness .. sorry about that. Not to worry .. when enough time has passed and he has come to terms with our partnership being over, he will accept it for what it is."

It sounds like you dont really want to leave either because if you did, then you would have left by now instead of saying that your still there because your giving HIM "time". Dont understand this? If you are going to express love by your definition, then that means loving him enough to walk away from him NOW and open the doors for him to find and receive somebody else's love. Right?

OK evrybody, we have two seperate threads going on essentially....lol....

BACK to my original thread: Should a woman give the man sex in order to get what she needs emotionally afterwards or should a man FIRST give the emotionalally in order for a woman to want to give sexually?

"Ok, here's my contribution to the lets talk about sex thread...I'm not having alot at the moment. Maybe someone can give me tips as to how I can go about getting it?

Until then www.therabbit.com"

LOL.....you're probably getting waaaaay more than I am at the moment. 🙂 It's sad when woman who wants the #3 kind of sex has to wait and go forever and a day without it, because it takes much longer to find that kind of sex.

No wumbo hee mee. Mufteechuk monkeykwank. Viagra humbowimbey. Wimbey Viagra dolo. Ho! Ho! Me Mumbo tuft twah. Viagra.

"Common sense tells us that who we married 25 years ago WILL not and CAN not be that same person from 25 years ago."

"for your continued growth as individuals and you are BOTH responsible for adding to the growth of your partner. The learning, growing and changing never ceases."

This is what I was saying ....

" .. if a person has forever-changing expectations, then they will NEVER be happy or satisfied."

However, apparantly I'm not clarifying my expression accurately enough on how I process this .. for, you still believe that I look at my marriage with an expectation.

Southern, you're absolutely right .. a person will NEVER be satisfied if there are forever-changing expectations .. they will NEVER be satisfied BECAUSE of the expectation changing or solid.

Let me try to word this differently, so you can see what I'm trying to say. If you (3rd person) ..

Had a new potential new partner and analyzed things such as: His financial situation, his spiritual beliefs, his non-use of tobacco or alcohol .. as a means of determining whether he will respect you, or treat you as you need to feel loved "forever" ... then in essence, you are expecting him to never change his habits FOREVER. You can't look to 10 years down the road, or 50 and expect him to always be the same. He could lose faith in God, he could start smoking ... but, you have this "expectation" you are looking at NOW with the intention of believing that he will ALWAYS be this way FOREVER.

That is a set-up to fall because it retards any changing, growth or evolution. You've put your expectations of this man inside a box, because you would try to respect him for what HAS to come, rather than the person he has been.

When you look at a person to whom you want to respect .. you aren't looking at who that person will be 10 years from now .. you have no clue who he will be in the future .... you look at the person's past. DID he respect his mother, DID he make his child-support payments, DID he use diplomacy, DID he take care not to hurt people's feelings.

It's our yesterdays that pave the way .. not tomorrows, for tomorrows haven't even been lived yet ....

No lol. I was referring to the Viagra commercials. Those things are damn funny. Nobody gets me.

"I do not like men who would make moves before me that would piss me off actually."

INTERESTING.....I'll have to work up the nerve to try that one day and stop being such a prude little Virgo. Although my hormones are raging right now. Wish that Scorpio guy was here right about now. 🙂

replace him with a banana for now.

"Had a new potential new partner and analyzed things such as: His financial situation, his spiritual beliefs, his non-use of tobacco or alcohol .. as a means of determining whether he will respect you, or treat you as you need to feel loved "forever" ... then in essence, you are expecting him to never change his habits FOREVER. You can't look to 10 years down the road, or 50 and expect him to always be the same. He could lose faith in God, he could start smoking ... but, you have this "expectation" you are looking at NOW with the intention of believing that he will ALWAYS be this way FOREVER.

That is a set-up to fall because it retards any changing, growth or evolution. You've put your expectations of this man inside a box, because you would try to respect him for what HAS to come, rather than the person he has been."

Ok fair enough. I understand what you are saying. But dang, you are basically saying: Dont have ANY standards. (—??)

So, what I'm trying to say is that ... to find growth within a union, you have to be able to look BACK to see how you treated each other in order to have respect for each other, or not. If you see respect, and you see harmony .. then growth together as a couple is there to embrace.

However, if you have entered into a partnership with expectations of who you want this person TO BE .. then what you will see when you look back to see if you respect him, or not ... is that he didn't fulfill the position of what you expected him to be forever ... you won't have respect for him because he CANNOT be "that" person that you put in your mind as to whom he should be forever.

So, though, we are saying the same thing .... that relationships have to grow and evolve .. what I'm saying is that this tolerance, acceptance for growth, the learning, and the harmony/compatibility comes from thinking in terms of who you are today, because today was paved from yesterday ... it doesn't come by who you might be tomorrow, because without regarding and holding respect today, which comes from yesterday .. tomorrow will be different.

Do you see what I'm saying?

You can still use the banana. Just peel it. I mean it's no big deal right? You're just putting back something that was already in there already right. Also it's a good way of hiding evidence. By eating it.

I thought it was just one? Bananas eh? Someone likes to indulge.

I know they are. I'll shut up. Although it'll get super quiet. Too quiet.

"Ok fair enough. I understand what you are saying. But dang, you are basically saying: Dont have ANY standards"


No, I'm not saying that .... you are.

You said that love should be unconditional ... this is in fact, not having any standards.


To approach love unconditionally means ... you have no self-respect, for you would sacrifice anything .. how then can this partner have respect for you?

To live each day with respect for each other .. means you have respect for yourself.

"You've put your expectations of this man inside a box, because you would try to respect him for what HAS to come, rather than the person he has been."

All I can say about this particular man is that I KNEW from day one. I FELT it from day one. BEFORE I even knew those things about him. The things that I listed just happened to be the icing on the cake that came AFTER that gut feeling. Everybody keeps telling me to "feel" and not analyze. Well I am "feeling" and I've been "feeling" since the day I met him a year ago. And the type of feeling that I have, some (SOME) of those things wouldnt have even mattered. You cant control who you have that gut feeling for and you can control whether or not that person ends up fitting into you "box" of expectations. Prime example: I'm a female Virgo. I CANT STAND and HATE vulgarity. This man curses once and a while. Am I going to write him off because of it? Nope. Bottom line: He's a man.

"To approach love unconditionally means ... you have no self-respect, for you would sacrifice anything .. how then can this partner have respect for you?"

Whoa....lets back up here. My definition of uncondiational love is for example loving somebody regardless of if they loose or gain weight throughout the course of the relationship. (just for example). However it DOES NOT mean (for example)- waking up 25 years later to a husband that decides to start verbal abuse or physical abuse. There's no way in h@ll that unconditional love apply's to that.

There's a difference between giving unconditional love and simply not having a backbone. Major difference.

"can't control whether or not that person ends up fitting into you "box" of..."

"it will change everyday. But act on the ones that come through where you absolutely sure that this is what you want to do..."

Thanks 🙂....lol.....man I've never met anybody that made me feel like 20 differnt emotions all at one time. If nothing else, this will turn out to be a learning experience for me.

"To approach love unconditionally means ... you have no self-respect, for you would sacrifice anything .. how then can this partner have respect for you?"

And also, I DO NOT believe in approaching dating unconditionally. Dating is where you set the standards of how a man should treat you. There sure as h@ll is no unconditional love given in the begining by me.

Now do I need to work on NOT bending in crucial moments in the begining, YES I will admit that. And that is a daily challenge for me. That is a challenge for alot of younger women who dont have as much experience and every situation is a learning experience. But essentially, I understand now what you are saying:

DONT EVER SACRIFICE OR BEND ON WHAT YOU EXPECT AND WANT AS A WOMAN BECAUSE THIS IS THE FOUNDATION FOR WHICH A MAN WILL HAVE (AND KEEP) RESPECT FOR YOU.

Right? Am I understanding now?

My whole reasoning with this is because for some time now, you have been fretting over how to get this man on the same page as you. You have these feelings, and like you say, you are feeling the person you are feeling .. and this just happens to people, and we never know who it is going to be .... vulgar speech included.

Your worry, your concern, your focus .... is on getting this man to give you something that you can hold onto, an expectation of his intentions with you tomorrow.

And this is the very reason for your feeling of rejection ..... you have feelings surging inside of you, so you feel compelled to place these emotions on him, in hopes that he will feel the same way so it isn't a burden any longer ... and, I'm trying to tell you that this is where you are faltering.

He told you .... he's not interested in a relationship right now, but, you can't see that because your emotional burden is too heavy to carry alone .. so, you are expecting him to have The Talk, where he'll tell you that he loves you, so that you can put part of the burden on to help you carry it .... and this mind-set will push most men away.

Check your baggage at the door ... to do this, STOP letting your mind worry about what he might do or feel, and just LIVE for today. Once he sees that you are living for what there is to embrace, instead of worrying about what he might do, or how he might feel for you .. then, he'll realize that you've put your emotional baggage in check, and look at you as though you have personal standards = respect.

"However it DOES NOT mean (for example)- waking up 25 years later to a husband that decides to start verbal abuse or physical abuse."


What the hell are you talking about? If that's a reference to me, then you haven't heard anything I've said.

DONT EVER SACRIFICE OR BEND ON WHAT YOU EXPECT AND WANT AS A WOMAN BECAUSE THIS IS THE FOUNDATION FOR WHICH A MAN WILL HAVE (AND KEEP) RESPECT FOR YOU.

Right? Am I understanding now?



Nearly ... don't visit this on him. If within your personal standards, a man isn't right for you ... WALK AWAY ..

"My whole reasoning with this is because for some time now, you have been fretting over how to get this man on the same page as you. You have these feelings, and like you say, you are feeling the person you are feeling .. and this just happens to people, and we never know who it is going to be .... vulgar speech included.

Your worry, your concern, your focus .... is on getting this man to give you something that you can hold onto, an expectation of his intentions with you tomorrow.

And this is the very reason for your feeling of rejection ..... you have feelings surging inside of you, so you feel compelled to place these emotions on him, in hopes that he will feel the same way so it isn't a burden any longer ... and, I'm trying to tell you that this is where you are faltering.

He told you .... he's not interested in a relationship right now, but, you can't see that because your emotional burden is too heavy to carry alone .. so, you are expecting him to have The Talk, where he'll tell you that he loves you, so that you can put part of the burden on to help you carry it .... and this mind-set will push most men away.

Check your baggage at the door ... to do this, STOP letting your mind worry about what he might do or feel, and just LIVE for today. Once he sees that you are living for what there is to embrace, instead of worrying about what he might do, or how he might feel for you .. then, he'll realize that you've put your emotional baggage in check, and look at you as though you have personal standards = respect."


AND LET THE CHURCH SAY: AMEN

(sigh....) ok, I get it. I needed somebody to break it down for me like that.
wow.....yeah...I get it now....

"What the hell are you talking about? If that's a reference to me, then you haven't heard anything I've said."

Wait a minute....calm down. That is not a reference to you at all. I dont know what your situation is and why you want to leave. That was an example. I keep using the number 25 because that was mentioned by you as far as how long you've been married. I just kept using that number after that point in my general discussion. That was not by any means directed at you. It was simply an example. Slow your role..... 🙂

Look to his yesterdays for respect of this man ....

He has a harem of women, you are just one of the many

He wants a woman to provide meals for him, you are one of many to choose from


If you bend to that, and disregard your personal standards, with hopes that in the future he will learn to respect you for it, because you loved him unconditionally ..... then your "forevers" with him will be in suffering and self-sacrificing.

I'm done .. that is all I can say. I'll leave this alone now. Sorry if my words are too harsh .. I'm trying to get you to understand that by your actions of how you are presenting yourself and having unrealistic expectations IS WHY you don't have him.

Out .. peace 🙂

lol, I'm always calm ...

"If you bend to that, and disregard your personal standards, with hopes that in the future he will learn to respect you for it, because you loved him unconditionally ..... then your "forevers" with him will be in suffering and self-sacrificing."

ok, I no longer believe in unconditional love.

"lol, I'm always calm ..."

ok....wait a minute. Tell me this. So "for example": Are you loosing respect for this man because you have cut him off from sex and he's still there? Or are you realizing that you loves you regardless of sex?

No, to either/both ... loving each other isn't in question.

At one time, I had him to the point of accepting that we need some kind of counseling, or aid .. which didn't come to fruit. At that time, he had begun to understand that we are bound for divorce .. we put our house on the market and decided that we were going to move to be near our son and grandchildren, however, living next door to each other, or close enough nearby, so we can still relate, share our pets and grandkids.

However, he's not ready yet to accept that our time together has come to an end, and I won't abandon him .. unlike my Piscean nature, which under ordinary circumstances, would have NO problems swimming away without further ado, or concern.

Cutting him off from sex was an attempt to persuade him, to help the light switch in his head that I no longer have the desire to continue in our marriage. Though, I need to re-evaluate my interpretation of the term, "emotional support", from how I originally percieved it, likely won't change my desire for an exit.

Whenever the time comes that he sorts out that to be divorced doesn't constitute any kind of ignorance to each other, for we will indeed STILL share in our life what we've created, just on different terms ... the love and respect we hold for each other will not end, and I won't allow the ending to come in dispute. To say, I'm unhappy, doesn't necessarily mean that I'm unhappy with anything he has done specifically, rather, just within my own personal desires to experience more in life at this stage of my evolution.

Do I still love him? Absolutely !! Our companionship is very close, we continue to share things and talk everyday, still "sleep" next to each other ... but, my life-experience with him as a partner in "marriage" has come to an end .. however, I still have a desire to continue sharing our lives in friendship. Certainly, I don't want to lose him in friendship, or lose his respect .. so, if he needs more time to come to terms with putting a period behind our marriage, then this is what I want to do.

My aim is for both of our happiness .. though, I've been known to bitch and moan about him .. this doesn't mean I hate him, or have stopped loving him as a person. He knows how I feel, Southern .. articulating my feelings isn't a problem .. but, I'm not going to visit my feelings on him constantly. I keep these feelings in check the majority of the time .. when he's ready, he'll approach it.