Spectre
@Spectre
12 Years
Comments: 0 · Posts: 415 · Topics: 0
I can be downright cruel (Page 2)
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Posted by Gandalf
Playing around with the leo male huh?
well hope you are happy with yourself little ram. This is not what i expect for aries women whom i adore so much.
No Gandalf, she's not (never that...hahaha). I think it's just some other guys. She seems to be smitten for the Leo.
Posted by Spectre
Like my postings enuf 2 hv followed it throughout troll land?
Planning 2 be my No.3 fan or is it No.2 fan?
I'm flattered.
I lied, I simply do not care.
4 one such as me, judgements, criticisms and the likes r merely tools.
Tools 4 me to sharpen myself.
Each battle lost only serves one such as me the knowledge and experience to win the war.
In the end I usually do.
My net has been cast..
And the fishes r swimming furiously in all directions...
Some will perish...
Some will thrive...
But make no mistake my net is closing as I reel it in...
Gosh, since you like to "play"
I'll play along.
first, win the war? What war? The one where you fight against yourself?
And the fishes.. they are most likely not the piscean mermaids, but your neurons trying to make sense of it all..
yes, some do perish and are replenished..
and once your net closes in.. you gain some, and lose some too..
Yes you're a troll, rocky is right
Posted by rockyroadicecreamPosted by spicaPosted by rockyroadicecreamPosted by enfant_terrible
@feb16aqua: So out of all the things I've said about her, you picked the most innocent one - the ego - to turn it against me. Wow, I must be a terrible, terrible human being compared to the OP....
Don't forget, you're talking to people raised in a society who no longer promotes responsibility for one's actions nor feel any remorse for their actions.
It has been happening since time immemorial. It was worse in the past I think. I think this mimics the battle of god and the devil
By the way I find it strange someone with a ghost/ grim reaper as their avatar don't believe in spirits
And they're afraid of judgment. Judgment is harmless; if they didnt do anything that fails judgment, they wouldn't be terrified of it. Judgment, it is nothing.
Some get their delusions of power from an untoward source, not realizing they're the ultimate pawns.
This Aries I knew was terrified of judgment and kept bothering me with questions like " why do people judge?" Like it was the greatest sin in the world. Little did I realize she did things so unbecoming such that judgement is pretty much the only thing she's afraid of.
Yes, but it's getting worse. Blame the entitlement era.
If someone is that put off by the idea of judgement or fears it, chances are they're doing something that warrants being judged.click to expand
exactly.. find someone afraid of judgment, and you have a weirdo.. everyone judges all the time, it's how one makes decisions.
A Troll?
U got it wrong.
I am a mother farking great Troll.
U got it wrong.
I am a mother farking great Troll.
Posted by VenusAquarius
Awwwwww Spectre, that was fucking beautiful. It read like a poem.
What is your Sun sign?
Sidenote: King Kong was one of my favorite movies. I damn near cried at the end. I can't remember but, I might have actually cried.
Let's see how good u r.
Born
On All Saints Day.
Posted by SpectrePosted by VenusAquarius
Awwwwww Spectre, that was fucking beautiful. It read like a poem.
What is your Sun sign?
Sidenote: King Kong was one of my favorite movies. I damn near cried at the end. I can't remember but, I might have actually cried.
Let's see how good u r.
Born
On All Saints Day.
click to expand
Reaper makes sense Spectre 🙂
OP: Why did you post about being cruel? Is it for self reflection or is it a random pass for entertainment 😛 Also how is it roaring?
Reaper is for All Souls Day.
Spectre is reserved for All Saints.
Spectre is reserved for All Saints.
Clever, very good insight.
I'm afraid not many here will see it from your point of view.
But you surprised me.
I'm afraid not many here will see it from your point of view.
But you surprised me.
Posted by Spectre
Reaper is for All Souls Day.
Spectre is reserved for All Saints.
This depends on what and where, but I get your point 🙂
Posted by feb16aqua
Weirdo right here then! I'm not afraid of judgment. I'm just aware that our own judgment is limited by our own minds. I've learned that most judgments are projections of our own insecurities, things we ourselves are afraid to face or don't like. Something that we are envious of, a way that we would never act, even the way we are ourselves but hate it.
The way that you react to other people. YOU are responsible for that and it is a direct reflection of YOU.
I take each person as they come and I will have an open heart to learning from anyone.
🙂
Posted by feb16aquaPosted by spica
exactly.. find someone afraid of judgment, and you have a weirdo.. everyone judges all the time, it's how one makes decisions.
Weirdo right here then! I'm not afraid of judgment. I'm just aware that our own judgment is limited by our own minds. I've learned that most judgments are projections of our own insecurities, things we ourselves are afraid to face or don't like. Something that we are envious of, a way that we would never act, even the way we are ourselves but hate it.
The way that you react to other people. YOU are responsible for that and it is a direct reflection of YOU.
I take each person as they come and I will have an open heart to learning from anyone.
click to expand
Not always. You can only use that reasoning if what YOU did was not evil. Evil is beyond reason. It does fear judgement, which is harmless of itself. Not every opinion or judgment is a reflection of one's insecurities. To place it all in that category would not do it justice.
Posted by feb16aquaPosted by spica
Not always. You can only use that reasoning if what YOU did was not evil. Evil is beyond reason. It does fear judgement, which is harmless of itself. Not every opinion or judgment is a reflection of one's insecurities. To place it all in that category would not do it justice.
Yes of course. But even the idea of evil in itself, good and evil in general, are just simply specific to the individual's point of view. Good and evil technically don't even exist: they are manifestations of our own judgments, from our own unique perspective.
Evil is a label that we attach to an idea: the things we don't like, that are "wrong," even to something we've learned about or read about (ex the Bible) but each person's parameters are completely different.
click to expand
Oh I see... of course you'll say that. You have no conscience. Therefore, you go by "perspective".
Posted by feb16aquaPosted by spica
Oh I see... of course you'll say that. You have no conscience. Therefore, you go by "perspective".
What do you mean by conscience?click to expand
Are you implying it's my perspective as well?
Maybe you can refer to the standard definition of conscience?
Cannibals = Prisoner u r condemned to death, we shall behead you in 1 blow and honour your family by cooking and eating you, the Gods will be pleased.
Americans = Prisoner u r condemned to death, we will inject poisons into your body, where it will spasm violently until you die.
Both believe they r right.
Both will believe the other methods are Evil.
Both believe their methods are the most humane and respectful.
This is too simple...
Boring...
Americans = Prisoner u r condemned to death, we will inject poisons into your body, where it will spasm violently until you die.
Both believe they r right.
Both will believe the other methods are Evil.
Both believe their methods are the most humane and respectful.
This is too simple...
Boring...
Posted by FlaviaPosted by Spectre
Reaper is for All Souls Day.
Spectre is reserved for All Saints.
This depends on what and where, but I get your point 🙂click to expand
With you;
In public, i will be the Saint.
In the bedroom, i will be the Reaper.
Posted by feb16aquaPosted by spica
Are you implying it's my perspective as well?
Maybe you can refer to the standard definition of conscience?
No implications. Sure I can look it up, hmmm. I'd rather hear it from you though. I'm just curious what YOUR definition of conscience is.click to expand
I don't make up my own definition, it's the same as the one in the dictionary
Posted by feb16aqua
Even conscience itself is just a man-made description of a feeling. The empathy, the emotion behind feeling sorry for someone or something and it tugging on the soul. I would say that yes, I do have a conscience. But what does it matter anyway?
All of these thoughts and emotions that we feel in every moment. They are just that: feelings. If we learn to see things for what they are, without the cloud of emotion, if we realize that this is just all part of our personal evolution...then none of this even matters.
btw I like your avi. I love water like that. Where is that?
Of course it doesn't matter to you. I mean, you sound like you're trying to explain why it shouldn't matter. And it came from your own mental limitations, too. It probably tells you something about your own psyche and your reactions to it, right? I mean, yours comes from your own personal feelings.
From the online dictionary:
1.
the inner sense of what is right or wrong in one's conduct or motives, impelling one toward right action: to follow the dictates of conscience.
^^apparently, there's a universal right or wrong. Even babies/animals have this sense. YOU trying to explain away that it's perspective, does say something, don't ya think? 😉
And I got it from google, my avi that is.
Posted by Spectre
Cannibals = Prisoner u r condemned to death, we shall behead you in 1 blow and honour your family by cooking and eating you, the Gods will be pleased.
Americans = Prisoner u r condemned to death, we will inject poisons into your body, where it will spasm violently until you die.
Both believe they r right.
Both will believe the other methods are Evil.
Both believe their methods are the most humane and respectful.
This is too simple...
Boring...
sure.. coming from the grim reaper.. death itself..
Posted by feb16aquaPosted by spica
Of course it doesn't matter to you. I mean, you sound like you're trying to explain why it shouldn't matter. And it came from your own mental limitations, too. It probably tells you something about your own psyche and your reactions to it, right? I mean, yours comes from your own personal feelings.
From the online dictionary:
1.
the inner sense of what is right or wrong in one's conduct or motives, impelling one toward right action: to follow the dictates of conscience.
^^apparently, there's a universal right or wrong. Even babies/animals have this sense. YOU trying to explain away that it's perspective, does say something, don't ya think? 😉
And I got it from google, my avi that is.
You totally missed everything I was saying. I feel like my mind is melttttingggggg. 🙂click to expand
Your mind is butter anyway, can't blame you 😉
Posted by everevolvingepithet
*notices umm competitive air and side steps*
😛
lol
Posted by feb16aqua
I actually am not a big fan of debates. I like free flowing exchanges of ideas. To each their own. You have your beliefs, which I do not condemn or judge you for. I have my own. In my mind, maybe we can learn from each other and perhaps better ourselves in the process. All good. Let's talk about sex!!!
if there's no judgement, wrongdoings abound where the only victims are the innocent..
What I was just pointing out was that you prolly did something your conscience deemed as evil, thus the frantic explaining away you did.. it is just a little bit more than telling, is what 🙂
its oka..y
Lol, you are hilarious!
Actually I find Aquas the most judgemental.. because they hate it so much.. they probably do it the most.
You might also want to head on to the Taurus forum. I heard there are many bulls there.
Actually I find Aquas the most judgemental.. because they hate it so much.. they probably do it the most.
You might also want to head on to the Taurus forum. I heard there are many bulls there.
feb16aqua and spica both royal maids to my bedchambers.
Arguing over bra and panties, on who has the largest size.
Know that the Spectre is well pleased with the display of ur "assets".
I am amused...Muahahahaha
Arguing over bra and panties, on who has the largest size.
Know that the Spectre is well pleased with the display of ur "assets".
I am amused...Muahahahaha
Gosh spectre, I was just browsing some youtube videos, I saw this, reminds of you?
Posted by feb16aquaPosted by spica
exactly.. find someone afraid of judgment, and you have a weirdo.. everyone judges all the time, it's how one makes decisions.
Weirdo right here then! I'm not afraid of judgment. I'm just aware that our own judgment is limited by our own minds. I've learned that most judgments are projections of our own insecurities, things we ourselves are afraid to face or don't like. Something that we are envious of, a way that we would never act, even the way we are ourselves but hate it.
The way that you react to other people. YOU are responsible for that and it is a direct reflection of YOU.
I take each person as they come and I will have an open heart to learning from anyone.
click to expand
lol. Nice theory. There's a time and a place for this outlook.
I generally don't give an eff what people do, think, etc. However, when their actions start affecting others in some negative pattern (like the shining star who started this thread) that is a problem because their choices, actions, etc are now affecting someone else and even hurting them. This shit is about what's right and wrong, and the fact that some of you are jumping on the "NO JUDGMENT" bandwagon in this situation is fucking stupid, tbh.
To sit there and be all "tralala" because OH NOES JUDGEMENT makes you appear as if you want to stick your head in the sand, and that's just sad. Wake up to reality, please.
I get what you're saying, but again, there's a time and a place for this mindset. When someone starts intentionally doing something to hurt others, that is not the appropriate time .
I mean really, when there are pedophiles or rapists involved and you "judge" them for their heinous actions, is THAT projection?
If someone robs a bank and holds people hostage, and you find that terrible, is that projection?
When a kid is being bullied at school by some troll child and you think that kid is just a little shit head, is that projection?
I dunno about you, but all of the above gets judgement from people and it sure as hell doesn't make it a reflection of themselves.
Posted by feb16aquaPosted by spica
if there's no judgement, wrongdoings abound where the only victims are the innocent..
What I was just pointing out was that you prolly did something your conscience deemed as evil, thus the frantic explaining away you did.. it is just a little bit more than telling, is what 🙂
I'm sitting here, thinking about this. Thinking about your logic, the one word that comes to mind is:
NO.
Funny, I've had the same response to your logic....
Also, I gotta ask- are you one of those chicks who writes to prison inmates to become friends with them?
Posted by spica
Lol, you are hilarious!
Actually I find Aquas the most judgemental.. because they hate it so much.. they probably do it the most.
You might also want to head on to the Taurus forum. I heard there are many bulls there.click to expand
I was thinking something like this. Aquas are odd people. The way they handle things is special. At least the ones I've met. Head up their ass approach to a lot of things, including their own actions. I've met some okay ones, so I know all can't be like this...
@rocky, Actually I think some peeps in this thread are evil.. that just throws any logic out the window 😉 you don't reason with the evil.. it's their way without care for consequences.
I had an Aquarius older friend (female), she was as weird as they came.. hated to make judgements, but.. she knew right from wrong.. that's the difference. It's either you're good or you're bad.. the only discernment you need is to be able to tell the difference.
I had an Aquarius older friend (female), she was as weird as they came.. hated to make judgements, but.. she knew right from wrong.. that's the difference. It's either you're good or you're bad.. the only discernment you need is to be able to tell the difference.
I don't h8 u btw febaqua, to me posts are just pixels. I much prefer if posts don't have a name to them, it's the most objective 😉
The word "judgement" wasn't solely used by u in this thread, so u can't say that I was directly addressing u in the beginning. Actually, I wasn't addressing u. It was just a general statement.
The word "judgement" wasn't solely used by u in this thread, so u can't say that I was directly addressing u in the beginning. Actually, I wasn't addressing u. It was just a general statement.
Posted by SpectrePosted by FlaviaPosted by Spectre
Reaper is for All Souls Day.
Spectre is reserved for All Saints.
This depends on what and where, but I get your point 🙂
With you;
In public, i will be the Saint.
In the bedroom, i will be the Reaper.
click to expand
Figured out the best
Intrigued by reference
Knowledgeable and wandering
Boundless and fading
Posted by spica
@rocky, Actually I think some peeps in this thread are evil.. that just throws any logic out the window 😉 you don't reason with the evil.. it's their way without care for consequences.
I had an Aquarius older friend (female), she was as weird as they came.. hated to make judgements, but.. she knew right from wrong.. that's the difference. It's either you're good or you're bad.. the only discernment you need is to be able to tell the difference.
Also, people have to have a conscience too. People are human afterall and do make mistakes. Even good ones. The big difference is having that conscience tell them that what they're doing is wrong. If they don't then they have some serious issues to work out and I can see how they'd be viewed as "evil."
Posted by VenusAquariusPosted by Gandalf
Playing around with the leo male huh?
well hope you are happy with yourself little ram. This is not what i expect for aries women whom i adore so much.
No Gandalf, she's not (never that...hahaha). I think it's just some other guys. She seems to be smitten for the Leo.click to expand
Correcto-mundo!! Leo has my heart. Piggie laffs as she thinks mine is black and charred.
Posted by spicaPosted by Spectre
Like my postings enuf 2 hv followed it throughout troll land?
Planning 2 be my No.3 fan or is it No.2 fan?
I'm flattered.
I lied, I simply do not care.
4 one such as me, judgements, criticisms and the likes r merely tools.
Tools 4 me to sharpen myself.
Each battle lost only serves one such as me the knowledge and experience to win the war.
In the end I usually do.
My net has been cast..
And the fishes r swimming furiously in all directions...
Some will perish...
Some will thrive...
But make no mistake my net is closing as I reel it in...
Gosh, since you like to "play"
I'll play along.
first, win the war? What war? The one where you fight against yourself?
And the fishes.. they are most likely not the piscean mermaids, but your neurons trying to make sense of it all..
yes, some do perish and are replenished..
and once your net closes in.. you gain some, and lose some too..
Yes you're a troll, rocky is rightclick to expand
Spectre likens himself a warrior. @Spectre: Have you read any Carlos Castaneda?
And if this whole existance here is not more than a "school" to learn how to get off the wheel, I'll be shocked. We all play our parts, even in the lessons of others. We just may not see the picture at large. Worry not. It all works out.
Posted by FlaviaPosted by SpectrePosted by VenusAquarius
Awwwwww Spectre, that was fucking beautiful. It read like a poem.
What is your Sun sign?
Sidenote: King Kong was one of my favorite movies. I damn near cried at the end. I can't remember but, I might have actually cried.
Let's see how good u r.
Born
On All Saints Day.
Reaper makes sense Spectre 🙂
OP: Why did you post about being cruel? Is it for self reflection or is it a random pass for entertainment 😛 Also how is it roaring?click to expand
I am, at times, fascinated by myself. "Be the watcher, not the mind." I suppose I wonder if anyone else is so bold as to display their ugly side without fear. We all have one...even the piggy who calls me "cunt". lol
Posted by feb16aquaPosted by spica
exactly.. find someone afraid of judgment, and you have a weirdo.. everyone judges all the time, it's how one makes decisions.
Weirdo right here then! I'm not afraid of judgment. I'm just aware that our own judgment is limited by our own minds. I've learned that most judgments are projections of our own insecurities, things we ourselves are afraid to face or don't like. Something that we are envious of, a way that we would never act, even the way we are ourselves but hate it.
The way that you react to other people. YOU are responsible for that and it is a direct reflection of YOU.
I take each person as they come and I will have an open heart to learning from anyone.
click to expand
Indeed feb16aqua. I tried to point that out to piggy, but she's 14 or something. These things aren't integrated until life experience and the desire to seek knowledge come.
You do have an open heart! Nice job! And good to hear you are enjoying your Aries man. 🙂
Posted by feb16aquaPosted by spica
Of course it doesn't matter to you. I mean, you sound like you're trying to explain why it shouldn't matter. And it came from your own mental limitations, too. It probably tells you something about your own psyche and your reactions to it, right? I mean, yours comes from your own personal feelings.
From the online dictionary:
1.
the inner sense of what is right or wrong in one's conduct or motives, impelling one toward right action: to follow the dictates of conscience.
^^apparently, there's a universal right or wrong. Even babies/animals have this sense. YOU trying to explain away that it's perspective, does say something, don't ya think? 😉
And I got it from google, my avi that is.
You totally missed everything I was saying. I feel like my mind is melttttingggggg. 🙂click to expand
@feb16aqua: Again...most people are not at this level of understanding. I'll try...@spica: An ant may believe those big black things that randomly come from above and crush them are evil. They can't see the larger picture - perrrsssppeeeecctiivvvee. The universe takes everything at face value. Nothing is good. Nothing is evil.
feb16aqua: I bet we'd be friends.
Posted by everevolvingepithet
That one went over my head.🙂
Of course it did. But feb16aqua and I forgive you. 🙂
Posted by AriesinLuuuv
Indeed feb16aqua. I tried to point that out to piggy, but she's 14 or something. These things aren't integrated until life experience and the desire to seek knowledge come.
So deliberate cruelty is your path to knowledge?
Shit, some of you guys reason like sophmores still trying to figure themselves out.
And Hitler called, says he wants his lack of conscience back!
Posted by enfant_terriblePosted by AriesinLuuuv
Indeed feb16aqua. I tried to point that out to piggy, but she's 14 or something. These things aren't integrated until life experience and the desire to seek knowledge come.
So deliberate cruelty is your path to knowledge?
Shit, some of you guys reason like sophmores still trying to figure themselves out.
And Hitler called, says he wants his lack of conscience back!
click to expand
When the fuck did I say I was DELIBERATELY cruel—? My honesty to these guys can be downright biting, but I usually don't realize it til later. When you morons get stuck on something, so you can feel better about sad selves, your head gets sucked up your ass. Pull it out already and reread the thread!
Deliberate cruelty, in so many words..... Enjoy!
Yeah, you're a real human being.
Posted by AriesinLuuuv
With my Sag friend, that poor guy, he was the total pathetic puppy that never wanted to take the hint until I got brutal...I mean from the get-go I did say I questioned the physical chemistry, but I did like him as a person. He didn't really listen to all the red flags I threw...it actually became literal entertainment to see what he would do when I'd txt this or that...sort of pulling him back subtly, then wham! We even went away for a weekend and I sat thru tons of seriously dull conversation and eventually drank enough wine to try out what would happen physically...ugh. So on the way home, I delivered again the news that it just wasn't there... my "tactful in my mind" reasoning was that I was concerned about being with someone with health problems (he got frequent headaches) and I hated to tell him, but only a TRUE friend would, that he had bad breath and that it even created clouds. It was true and I felt this was a service to him. What is it about older men that at a certain point they get "old man breath"...jeebus! Anyway, he was pretty crushed and deflated, but guess what! He's STILL friends with me and STILL tells me he misses me and enjoys my company and invites me away skiing!! hahaha! I still need someone to txt with when I'm bored soooooo.....
Yeah, you're a real human being.
Dayum! I did say that! LMAO!!! Welp, I'm human, but I'll never convince those of you who are holier than thou. 😉
By the way....GOT YOU TO LOOOOOK!!!! Awww, my little mouse...so entertaining.
You mean apart from antisocial personality disorder?
Posted by enfant_terrible
You mean apart from antisocial personality disorder?
I absolutely can be antisocial at times...due to my incapacity to tolerate 'some types'. I'd rather be with my own wonderful company than suffer fools.
Don't do 'small talk'. How appropriately named.
Hmmm, what else do you need to boost your weak/needy egos?
Posted by ninjafishPosted by enfant_terriblePosted by feb16aqua
We can only state our opinions but no judging unless we're ready to open up our own closets. Mine's staying SHUT lol oh shit
Well.... guess what, I am passng judgements. Big time.
As far as treating people like shit goes, using them for my amusement and ego-trips, then calling them losers and love sick puppies, I can tell you my closet is wide open.
Unlike the OP, I possess something called empathy, which I think entitles me to pass judgements on her simply because I'm a better human being than she is. There you have it, plain and simple in black 'n white. 🙂click to expand
ur so cute ninja
FROM THE SAME PARAGRAPH (that enfant_terrible qouted)
-"...never wanted to take the hint until I got brutal..."
-"I mean from the get-go I did say I questioned the physical chemistry, but I did like him as a person."
-"He didn't really listen to all the red flags I threw..."
-"I delivered again the news that it just wasn't there..."
-"I hated to tell him, but only a TRUE friend would,"
-"He's STILL friends with me"
-"...never wanted to take the hint until I got brutal..."
-"I mean from the get-go I did say I questioned the physical chemistry, but I did like him as a person."
-"He didn't really listen to all the red flags I threw..."
-"I delivered again the news that it just wasn't there..."
-"I hated to tell him, but only a TRUE friend would,"
-"He's STILL friends with me"
Boring...
Some of u r like Muslims..
Judgemental and intolerant of opposing ideas.
Everyone has to pray in 1 direction even if Mecca is just right behind them and is actually nearer.
The communist were
Judgemental and highly intolerant of dissent.
Even if everything about them is falling apart and failing.
The core values of who u r determines ur principles.
In return ur principle determines ur methods in life which yields the results u all r getting in life right now.
If the results u get r positive then the methods r positive.
Likewise when ur life sucks then ur methods r wrong.
But 1 thing must always remain true;
Ur core values.
Once more, I am usually always correct......Muahahahaha
Some of u r like Muslims..
Judgemental and intolerant of opposing ideas.
Everyone has to pray in 1 direction even if Mecca is just right behind them and is actually nearer.
The communist were
Judgemental and highly intolerant of dissent.
Even if everything about them is falling apart and failing.
The core values of who u r determines ur principles.
In return ur principle determines ur methods in life which yields the results u all r getting in life right now.
If the results u get r positive then the methods r positive.
Likewise when ur life sucks then ur methods r wrong.
But 1 thing must always remain true;
Ur core values.
Once more, I am usually always correct......Muahahahaha
I don't know but some would consider entertaining, having sex, and going out with an old guy with bad breath, bad sex, and dull conversation, charity at best. Evil? I don't know?
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hello arians! i was wondering if any of you could tell me a little bit about having your mercury in pisces (if that is t
Like my postings enuf 2 hv followed it throughout troll land?
Planning 2 be my No.3 fan or is it No.2 fan?
I'm flattered.
I lied, I simply do not care.
4 one such as me, judgements, criticisms and the likes r merely tools.
Tools 4 me to sharpen myself.
Each battle lost only serves one such as me the knowledge and experience to win the war.
In the end I usually do.
My net has been cast..
And the fishes r swimming furiously in all directions...
Some will perish...
Some will thrive...
But make no mistake my net is closing as I reel it in...