Confused by leo behaviour...

Hello, have posted on scorpio board about the man I'm in love with , but this is about my ex!!!
I'm not sure what to think. Basically I was interested in him for a couple of years before he agreed to date me, last March. He was pretty full on from then on in, but soon I found he was quite moody, wanted always to prove he was right, especially when it came to bringing up my 3yr old son. I didn't really like this. he was also very insecure, convinced I'd dumped him one night when my mobile broke, turned up pissed and demanded I come to his house - at midnight - with my sleeping child - yeah right! I nearly left him then, but stuck it out another 6 months by which time i'd got pregnant, and he had got really horrible - controlling, moody, critical of everything I did/wore/etc. making me cry and demanding I had an abortion.
I left him, and since then he has been begging to come back saying he now wants everything, whereas before he used to say he would never help with the baby, never live with us etc. and never lifted a finger to help with anything at all!
I am not sure how to take it, I'm due his baby in June, he still leaves chocs by my door, which I find scary after the way he was so abusive. He says he wants us all back but I have a strong feeling it's his pride, he wants to save face— I can't trust a man who hurt me like that, but he says he's changed, he's never loved anyone before etc etc. (He's 40, I'm 33).
I can't figure it out - commitmentphobe to stalker in 7 months!!!
Any ideas?

Thankyou - that helps. It seems accurate too, I had him here the other day because I wanted answers - I was hoping to hear something that would make me feel I could trust him again, even though it feels way too late - but I'll still have to know him due to the baby, and don't like not understanding him.
He said a lot of things, but the upshot was, he had been ready to stop being horrible to me just before I dumped him - but he had to be horrible for a while, knew he was doing it, doesn;'t know why, and swears it won't happen again - this wasn't quite enough for me to feel that a future with him would be free of suffering.
I'm sure he's genuine in his apology but I still think it would start all over again next time something freaked him out - or he felt loss of control - because he doesn't understand himself. He said I'm the first person he's even Wanted to understand him, but I don't feel I can go with that.
I wish he would find some other girl to adore and hope for - someone who didn't mind him having no insight into his weird moods!
Us virgos are far too analytical probably : )

Hello, that's really interesting. I think actually it's quite likely that yes, I do stroke his fur the wrong way, as it were...which just enforces the idea that we are not right for each other, in my mind - in fact, the other day, we pretty much agreed that we don't understand each other, even if we are quite similar in some ways.
An example of how we interact. Well usually we are able to talk and laugh quite easily, but as our relationship progressed, perhaps he felt trapped, I don't know - but he seemed to become very 'testing', as if he was trying to get me to stand up and fight, or something? One time, I had asked a question on an internet forum about how to deal with an incident where my toddler had done something bad to the cat, and asked advice on how to make him treat her well. Most of the answers were constructive and helpful, but one said, 'I'd beat the kid to within an inch of his life, it's the only way'.
My then-partner pointed this out, and said, 'what do you think of that?' to which I replied that I felt it was rather extreme, and asked him what he thought of it...
he replied, 'I agree with it'.
I think this was utter bull, but for some reason he wanted to try and prove something - I mean we often disagreed on childrearing, but I really felt it was mainly him wanting me to 'listen and obey' rather than actually his real views...if that makes sense.
I dont know if he felt threatened by my having my own views - or maybe I was too reluctant to take on anyone elses opinion when I'd been raising my boy alone for three years already. There may be an element of truth in this reluctance but it wasn't there initially - what I mainly objected to was someone demanding that I listen to them, however silly their suggestions, purely because they wanted to be in charge of my household. (He never lived with us, didn't want to).
Does this help?
I seriously think his need to be adored and looked up to, was bigger than my ability to defer always to the male...especially a male who needed me to?

I can't remember what I said now. I think we talked about it a little, I refused to be drawn I think. He has older kids with whom he is impatient (just the boy - he worships the girl) but not violent as far as I can tell. He isn't the kind of parent who enjoys being one, nor the kind I'd really want for my children. Which is one big reason why I left him once I realised I could (had felt obliged to stay due to pregnancy until my mum begged me to go). I doubt he would beat a child, but his stupid insistence on making it a contentious issue, for the sake of having an argument, was what really annoyed me. Underlying it was probably the constant debate over my son's behaviour (not unusual at all for a 3 yr old, but perhaps a source of jealousy for Mr. leo - I have a feeling he wanted to set me up against my son, or prove I valued him above son?) He always told me 'just wait till he's a teenager, you're storing up trouble' etc. which was just ridiculous. I'm no way over-lenient but I try to be kind and reasonable.
Mr. Leo's father left when he was 6, he hates the man. I don't know what preceded this but he did have a rough childhood in Liverpool and seemed very conscious of having had it hard. This may be a clue.
He also says he's spent his whole life trying NOT to be understood, as a defence. He obviously has big, big issues which he isn't yet ready to address. During the course of our relationship, every time I did stand up against annoying behaviour, he would appear to change it/stop it, and actually followed through. (unusual in a typical abusive pattern, perhaps?) However I realised that he seemed to WANT me to 'sort him out', that is, to get him into line, and this, together with the constant provocation to ensure I would want to, was what I got sick of - I hadn't the energy or desire to play that kind of game. I didn't see why I should. He was acting like I was his mum or something!
I think he feels I should have been flattered that he 'chose' me to do this important task, but actually it just made me feel rather sick...and I quickly lost my respect for him.

And yes, it does seem very 'convenient' - most of the issues we discussed the other day, actually ended up being turned around so that in fact they were all because of things I had done - all without my knowing his apparent 'plans'. Like the time I had arranged to go with my parents to the seaside one Sunday, and he suddenly decided that HE wanted to take me and my son (despite not really seeming to enjoy my son in the way I'd hoped he would) and being therefore massively offended that I still went with them.
This was a bit of a pattern. And then he would be moody and grumpy, or ignore my calls for a few days, later saying he was waiting for me to act first or something...confusing stuff like that.
Even now he still says, after eg. not being in touch for a few weeks (something I was glad of) that he was surprised I hadn't called him...so it was MY fault somehow. Maybe he is really glad to be out of the ring in terms of commitment - I suspected he wanted out before leaving him - and is just happy to go away if it's somehow me that asks him to. Very extreme face-saving going on there, when he knows I'd be happy for him just to say, 'No, you're right, I really don't want to be tied down, thanks for letting me off the hook'!
This just makes the chocolates thing really bizarre. Like he's in total denial? Confused about a role as a father when his own dad left his kids...maybe. Maybe he can't stand doing what his father did. But still can't actually bring himself to commit without a huge struggle.
I don't know...

Me too! I have known quite a few. They always seem to find me attractive, I think maybe I'm a challenge - I'm not all that well balanced myself IMO but I'm very open, and also don't like to put up with games or nonsense. And I ride a motorbike...always helps!; )
But all the ones I've dated (last count three) have been controlling; the ones I've messed around with but not dated (another one or two) have been incredibly insecure and face-saving, and one of my oldest friends from school, also a leo man, is one of the strangest people I've ever met in my life! Lots and lots of problems. Not saying that everyone doesn't have problems, but I do know so many of these leos...gives you a good handle on their tricks, at least!!

Sometimes wish I was totally weak and dependent. Might attract somebody stable...?

Wow, I'm with a Leo right now, and I'm a bit stunned to see that these seem to be typical negative traits with Leo men. Mine drives me up the wall, and sometimes I feel like he does it just because he can. He's always testing me, sometimes even feels like psychological warfare! I'm a Capricorn woman, and I'm pretty straightforward, I can't stand people with ulterior motives. It's gotten to the point where I feel I have to guard myself from him, it's so stressful. When he's good, he's the best man I've ever known, and when he's bad.......I could castrate him with my teeth!

I hate how he can't ever accept that HE might be the one in the wrong once and a while. Everything gets flipped around so that I'm the immature one, or the one who isn't giving him what he needs. I always have to be the one to make the first move. I've told him over and over that it makes me feel unappreciated when I have to always take the initiative when it comes to showing love or even smoothing out fights. I feel he wants me to serve him, and I WILL NOT serve any man who won't reciprocate.

And yet, I can't seem to let go of him! It's the fact that he has such great potential but is too much of a commitment-phobe and emotional coward to do anything goo with it. Love-hate, indeed!

Sorry, leokitten, forgot to put our entire relationship in that one post so it would be clear that it's a bit more complex than I made it seem. 😛

Ever love someone? You'd be amazed what you could put up with when you do. How have I made him take me seriously? Hmm, well it took us a year to get together b/c I wouldn't take him seriously, and we've been together for about 2 years now. I have no problems with him when it comes to cheating or being physically abusive, it's just the general mind games that irk me. Yet to meet a Leo who wasn't fond of them.

I don't serve him, and that's a part of the problem. I don't know what I typed to give the impression that I do. As for talking a big game and playing it? Um, what? I'm not interested in playing games, that's kind of the point. I'm trying to find the constructive part of your post, but I'm still missing it. Damn.

take him back..

not sure why my whole post isn't showing up.

AQuirkyGoatess if you ever wanna chat hit me back I will send yo my IM, i'm sure we have lots of stories to share.

peace

Thanks Tiki...It's funny how many of the people who've replied to this thread, have described in detail exactly the character traits I've seen again and again in these leo men I've known. I find most of them unbearable now, especially having seen them too many times - in my Petulengro book, it says that us virgos 'know dear leo's tricks too well' and I can't help but relate to that.
From these responses it would seem that many of them have certain things in common, namely controlling/mind game behaviour, which just does nothing for me.
It's Ok Tiki, this board has been a tremendous help actually, I've really found that talking it through with you all has crystallised how pathetic the excuses from the other day really were...I've come to the conclusion that
a) the man has no genuine interest in commitment - at least, not in a loving way. He seems often to have really enjoyed making me cry (criticism of my appearance, saying he was ashamed of me, even saying he thought his kids were appalled by the fact I had messy hair one visit - it was windy!) and then holding me, comforting me whilst I cry. This to me seems manipulative and a bit sick. I realised this was a pattern when he told me the other day, how he had wanted to go with me to the abortion clinic, and then if I couldn't go through with it, holding me and taking me home...but he was so disappointed that I'd wanted my mother to go with me instead. (It was only his bullying that made me even make the appointment, which I later cancelled). so, 'make your woman suffer, so that she'll need you' seemed to be a key part of his fantasies.
b) he is a little unhinged.
and c) I would rather stick needles in my eyes than have him back.
More to follow but running outta words!...>>>>

All this of course makes me upset, because I still am carrying his kid and really am quite afraid of the stress that having to see him at all is going to put me through.
But it's a bit late to go back now.
One more thing which I cannot remember right now. I'll come back and post it when I do! : )

Thankyou for that advice - I have been dreading it but hoped we might be able to do without legal interference - however he still complains regularly about the woman who had his other kids 14 & 11 years ago - they went to court and ended up with a child each. (poor kids) so I know he's not averse to legal battles...he does say I'm nothing like her but I realise that could all hange once he knows he won't get me back with charming comments.
The thing I was going to write before was about the self-esteem issue mentioned by one of the posters.
I remember one thing he said to me, on one of the occasions when he had made me cry. He said, 'you haven't got much self esteem, have you?' to which I thought (but didn't say) 'Well, not after you've been chipping away at it for the last few months!'. He went on to say, 'You know, you could take the most beautiful woman in the world, take away her self esteem, and she'd be really unattractive'.
I wondered then if that was what he was trying to do - not that I'm that beautiful ; )
Seemed very threatened by my being fairly strong and self-assured. And wanted to find the chinks, and dig deep to find the fears and insecurities beneath the surface, so that I would need him to make me feel I was worthy.
I could be wrong?

tiki33, I'm a Capricorn-Aquarius too! 🙂

"Mr.Leo seems to get gratification off of keeping everything tossed up in the air, we shouldn't have to go days without speaking to one another, he makes mental CHESS moves all day long, he seems to thrive off of reactions from me and he knows I hate being ignored but will do it just because....it's like a circus show! Way too much."

You're stealing the words from my brain!

This one time, when I'd gotten fed up with him trying to make me "work" for his attention, I cut him off for a few days. When I finally took one of his calls, he was like "Where have you been? What have you been doing? I see you've picked up one of my tricks. Give them a lot, and then take it away and they can't help but miss it." That really should have freaked me out more than it did at the time. What is wrong with this man and me??

He's even told me that he likes to "test" me to see how much I care and how much I'm willing to do for him. He knows what pisses me off because I'm the type who tells people straight out, and he says he's testing me to "teach" me. Teach me what? How to come up with creative and untraceable ways to end you in your sleep?

The second he feels like he's losing me, he becomes open, attentive and damn near perfect to reel me back in. I know, I know. Sometimes I think he wants something with me that he can't handle, but he can't let it go b/c, according to him, I'm the only woman who gets him. *cue violins* If he weren't such an arrogant, tricky bastard, I'd trust him enough to love him as he wants. But I can't relax around someone I feel is trying to get one up on me all the freaking time. Staying with him is hard, and leaving even more so! I love challenges, but damn!

He's got Scorpio Rising too. Mommy.....

Hey Quirky, gosh it must drive you absolutely nuts! I too wonder what they really want from us. Mine says instead of that I'm the only one who understands him, I never DO understand his motives - well, I don't - but he's never met anyone else whom he WANTS to understand him. Similar, sort of...
Also mine becomes Mr Perfect when he wants me back. He was all over my three yr old the other day, nearly made me puke after the way he used to be horrible both about him and to him.
I didn't even bother saying anything. It was too laughable and transparent, really. I just smiled sweetly and was very friendly...but I know he's not getting me back, and that's what counts. I know if I say so, he will become cold, sulky, and resentful, with immediate effect - which I cannot handle.
Wish you luck with yours honey : )

Virgogirl73, my bf says stuff about my confidence level all the time. Always telling me that part of the reason I don't feel like he appreciates me is because I don't have as much confidence as I should. At first, I was like "Hmm, maybe he's right." Then I thought it over and realized he was full of crap. I told him I have no issues with myself, but if my bf says or does things to make me feel like HE has issues with me, then, yes, it'll get to me.

I read somewhere that Leo men are looking for a Queen, and they can't help but test the worthiness of the woman they want. Whatever, that's okay, but it's horrible how they go about it.

Yours sounds like an unhealthy Leo too. I wish you all the luck in sorting your situation out. Take care of yourself and your kids!

Yay, I think they ARE testing us. It's all about whether you really are that bothered if you pass it or not...!

I've started wondering if he's worth all this trouble. If it's just a test phase where he's trying to see if I can handle him, I can understand that a bit. But if this is just a taste of what life with him would always be like, hell no. No, no, no, no, no.

Virgogirl73, I'm glad you're over him. He definitely doesn't sound worthy of you. And after re-reading what I've posted and read in this thread, mine sounds in need of a swift kick in the @ss too. Think I have to give him some of his medicine.

AQ:I've started wondering if he's worth all this trouble. If it's just a test phase where he's trying to see if I can handle him, I can understand that a bit. But if this is just a taste of what life with him would always be like, hell no. No, no, no, no, no.

I feel ya on this one...this is the first and the last leo I will deal with, the sex is stupid good lol!! So I will probably never turn it down LOL!! but its funny how you knew him for years and he still misbehaves...I bet you didn't see that coming, he probably seemed all sunshine and light, now your in it,your sorta stuck because you put so much time and energy in the relationship.

AQ:I read somewhere that Leo men are looking for a Queen, and they can't help but test the worthiness of the woman they want. Whatever, that's okay, but it's horrible how they go about it.

How the hell does a person test the worthiness of a potential Queen?? Explain that
*giggling*

AQ: The second he feels like he's losing me, he becomes open, attentive and damn near perfect to reel me back in. I know, I know. Sometimes I think he wants something with me that he can't handle, but he can't let it go b/c, according to him, I'm the only woman who gets him. *cue violins* If he weren't such an arrogant, tricky bastard, I'd trust him enough to love him as he wants. But I can't relax around someone I feel is trying to get one up on me all the freaking time. Staying with him is hard, and leaving even more so! I love challenges, but damn!

This is soooooo true, I just have to emphasize this behavior, as soon as I say f*ck it, I'm out, he comes in with his cape and his S on his chest and I feel so safe, this is like CRACK!!

He pushes me away but then when he realizes that some other man will receive the goodies that he so adores, here he comes riding in on his white horse and saving the day! Arrogant and tricky my leo is and I too feel the same way, I would trust him but he wants the upper hand all the daym time which makes me uneasy and mentally throwed off and I can't breathe or relax being put in that position.

LMAO@kris: Aquirky goatess break up with him , we leo guys just suck period.

pretty much but leos have great qualities actually dayum near perfect, I wish leos would focus on that part of themselves and strengthen it instead allowing there darkside to overcome them and overwhelm potential partners and destroy relationships.

I'm a little mental myself but I try so hard to make sure people see ME for who I am and not what I pretend to be and alot of leos only want you to see that surface face and if a person isn't conscious she/he can get sucked in thinking wow this is a great person only to find out that they have been sleeping with a maniacal ego maniac down the line, who knew lol!

No worries Kris I don't hate leos, I just know a little bit more than I did before and will use caution when dealing with leos.

LoL@kris: If I could, I would. I think. 😛

@tiki33: "How the hell does a person test the worthiness of a potential Queen?? Explain that"

*shakes head* I'm not sure, but it ain't pretty.

I just read this stuff on Leo men:

"The Leo male looks for a ?special' lover, a woman who can capture and hold his interest, often by being a bit demanding herself. She has to have a somewhat regal aura about her, a woman who exudes a lofty wait-on-me feeling or he won't bother turning his head or get up out of his chair to make her acquaintance. Indeed, he rarely makes an effort in meeting new people, assuming that he should be the one who is approached first. It takes a rare woman to elicit such a response from him. He likes to play with his potential lovers (think cat and mouse) in order to size them up for an ongoing relationship. Leo really isn't about one night stands or carrying on multiple sexual relationships?he may tease and flirt and play around, but he isn't going to enter into a sexual relationship and dirty his golden **** with just anyone who is capable of giving him an erection. He needs a woman who can orbit around him and merge calmly, supportively, into his kingly realm?a Moon who can reflect his brilliant, self-important light and add sparkle and glitz to his everyday world. She (or he) must be devoted and naturally assume that the Leo is superior and the authority in the relationship. He may have a string of lovers in his life, a parcel of glamorous girls he thought - at the time - were the one. If there is one thing that can be said about the Leo male, he is quite picky about who he beds?and even moreso about who he weds. And such - since he usually takes his time in selecting his favorite out of the line-up and drilling and testing her in oh, so many fiery ways - the Leo male, when he falls, falls hard. Once he is in love, he shows it?and if that love should fade and the lover walks away, he will fall into a state of desolation no other sign could match. He is typically a one-woman man because, simply, how could he have chosen the wrong one?? He will hang on to a dying relationship for the longest time, refusing to swallow his pride and call it quits?if he loves, he loves. It is as simple as that."

Such a handful.

LMAO@AQuirkyGoatess: *shakes head* I'm not sure, but it ain't pretty.

I have to agree with you on that...I thought I was a clown juggling 4 monkeys for the minute lol!!

Wow were did you find that, I mean I been all over the net and I pride myself on finding interesting tid bits on leos, that was a great read and it explains why I been dealing with so much BS with my leo! He flirts etc but I don't mind, its just the ignoring me and not being as attentive that drives me nutz, actually it makes me think I been a bit hard on him in some ways, the more I know the less anxious I feel. Do you find your like that also?

I feel like if I don't know the ins and outs of a person I naturally mistrust that person and leos tend to be a little sneaky and secretive like cat and mouse and it drives me insane...so hmmmmmm what say we play the cat and mouse game AQ? LOL!!

hey leo luvin ladies well im new to this sight but, not new to actively searching for answers to the baffling mysteries that my leo beast is exhuding.. I am a taurus w moon in cap and venus in gemini and he is a leo with moon in sag and venus in libra.. we have been off and on for a year now I am seeing a pattern on this sight that most of us ladies involved with the leos are first and foremost very intellegent and extremely apt at summoning up the real and detailed characters that make up our leo men. Im pretty sure that by just these attributes alone its no wonder we have captured the attention of a leo man despite that we are all pretty stunning beauties along with many other alluring qualities.I am at this moment very frustrated by his lack of communicating with me.. and im not gonna go into alot of the detail at this moment ( i will elaborate later when I have time ) but for the moment im just gonna say that I am feeling pretty raw right now by his lackluster attitude towards me so i have decided to combat my frustration by pouring a jim beam ,gettin dressed to the hilt, and going to the rock bar to shoot sum pool and whip sum ass on the tables .. yes im gonna get a bit flirty just to feel that I still got it .. (and i do) then after i have sucessfuly flirted and got hit on ( I can assure u that probally none of these men will hold a candle to my leo)i will win maybe 3 games . then ill come home a he will infiltrate my thought until i mercufully fall asleep ..