@Damnata
16 Years25,000+ PostsVirgo
Germanwings Flight
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No words.
Welcome back to life.
An unnecessary evil.
??The co-pilot is alone and he then starts the descent of the plane "deliberately"
??He has been named as 28-year-old Andreas Lubitz, a German national
??The recording reveals "several cries of the pilot asking to access [the cockpit]". The captain identifies himself on the intercom system but there's no answer from the co pilot. He knocks on the door and asks for it to be opened but there is no response"
??The co-pilot could be heard breathing "normally" until the moment of impact and investigators conclude he was still alive
??Alarms go off to indicate the proximity of the ground and just before the final impact the captain could be heard trying to break into the cockpit through the door
??"I think the victims only realised at the last moment because on the recording you only hear the screams on the last moments," says Mr Robin
??When asked if it was suicide he said: "I'm not even going to mention this word because I don't know"
??Mr Robin added: "There has been nothing to indicate so far this is an act of terrorism"
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/germanwings-plane-crash-live-updates-5401806
Posted by e11e
I have a question....Because of the whole terrorist thing....these cockpit doors have changed in the past 14 years, right?
Could the copilot have had a medical emergency (heart attack?) and the door malfunctioned (unable to open from the outside)?
They said he was breathing normally.
We should find more details as the investigation continues.
But if it's true he did commit suicide..it's sickening.
The rate of descend seems to back up the suicide scenario.
What I want to know is why doest the pilot have a key to get back in? A situation like this one should already be assumed possible.
I think its bullshit for things like this to have to happen for people to learn no human can be trusted.
Posted by e11e
they just found this flight recorder yesterday and it was found badly damaged.they have all this information already?
Preliminary conference on what they could recover until now. Don't think they analyzed the entire tape for the audio recorder.
The flight data should take a while..
Posted by Soul
What I want to know is why doest the pilot have a key to get back in? A situation like this one should already be assumed possible.I think its bullshit for things like this to have to happen for people to learn no human can be trusted.
I think the hijacking situation is assumed more probable:
"Airplane manufacturer Airbus rolled out a new system designed to prevent unauthorized entry. —A toggle control in the cockpit enables the crew to control access to the cockpit and secure the door in case of need,?? Airbus said when it was released. Here is a 2002 video, copyrighted by the aircraft manufacturer, explaining Airbus??s new —Reinforced Cockpit Door:??
I wish the best for the families who now have to live in confusion as to why this had to.
Just another handful of lives completely devastated from the worse parts of life. They get to spend life suffering for absolutely no logical reason.
I mean..on one hand..it's useful to have something to override the code from outside..in case of hijacking.
On the other..in case you get locked out because the pilot/co-pilot wants to commit suicide..what do you do then?
Say one of them goes to the bathroom, at which point a hijacker captures them and forces them to enter a code to get back in. Then it's a safety measure for the other crew member to completely lock the door and override that code.
The prosecutor said that the authorities had a full transcript of the final 30 minutes of the voice recorder.
—During the first 20 minutes, the pilots talk normally,?? he said, saying they spoke in a —cheerful?? and —courteous?? way. —There is nothing abnormal happening,?? he said.
The prosecutor said the transcript showed that the captain was preparing a briefing for landing in D?_sseldorf. The co-pilot's answer, the prosecutor said, was —laconic.??
The commanding pilot then asked the co-pilot to take over, and the noise of a seat backing up and a door closing could be heard.
—At this stage, the co-pilot is in control, alone,?? the prosecutor said. —It is when he is alone that the co-pilot manipulates the flight monitoring system to activate the descent of the plane.?? The prosecutor said that this action could only have been —voluntary.??
Continue reading the main story
—You can hear the commanding pilot ask for access to the cockpit several times,?? the prosecutor said. —He identifies himself, but the co-pilot does not provide any answer.??
—You can hear human breathing in the cockpit up until the moment of impact,?? the prosecutor said. —The pilot was therefore alive.??
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/27/world/europe/germanwings-crash.html
But I'd give this news another day or two to mature
Yup.
What is there was something wrong with the plane but Germanwings didn't want to take the blame so they made this story up ?
Or maybe the co-pilot was breathing normally but he had passed out ?
We can't say it was suicide for sure.
For the video:
"According to an Airbus video describing the operations of locking the cockpit door, it is locked by default when closed. But when a pilot wants to lock the cockpit door to bar access to someone outside, he or she can move the toggle to a position marked —locked,?? which illuminates a red light on a numeric code pad outside. That disables the door, keypad and the door buzzer for five minutes.
While these functions are disabled, the video shows, the only way to make contact with the crew is via an intercom. The doors can then only be opened if someone inside overrides the lock command by moving and holding the toggle switch to the —unlock?? position.
If someone outside the cockpit suspects the pilot is incapacitated, that person would normally first try to establish contact via the intercom or by activating a buzzer. If those efforts were unsuccessful, the video shows, a crew member outside the cockpit would need to enter an emergency code on the keypad.
The code activates a loud buzzer and flashing light on the cockpit control panel, and it sets off a timer that unlocks the door 30 seconds later. The person outside has five seconds to enter before the door locks again."
Posted by beggarsblanket
What is there was something wrong with the plane but Germanwings didn't want to take the blame so they made this story up ?
Case isn't investigated by Germanwings. For mechanical failures they need to see the data in the flight recorder.
Posted by beggarsblanket
We can't say it was suicide for sure.click to expand
Looking into the rate of descend should pinpoint whether it was deliberate or not.
It's not just the door and him having a heart attack or not, it's proving the plane didn't crash eratically and he steered it into the mountain.
Posted by e11e
only known by the crew that can override that door in case of an emergency like that.
If the pilot know, the co-pilot knows as well. So if one wants to lock the other out..well, yeah.
Posted by e11e
"If someone outside the chickenpit suspects the pilot is incapacitated, that person would normally first try to establish contact via the intercom or by activating a buzzer. If those efforts were unsuccessful, the video shows, a crew member outside the chickenpit would need to enter an emergency code on the keypad."So, it appears there was backup measures.....why wasn't it used? The way I read this....there could have been an emergency code to enter?
Again.....malfunctioning door is my conclusion.
Posted by Damnata
But when a pilot wants to lock the cockpit door to bar access to someone outside, he or she can move the toggle to a position marked —locked,?? which illuminates a red light on a numeric code pad outside. That disables the door, keypad and the door buzzer for five minutes.click to expand
Posted by e11e
I just can't allow myself to think he committed suicide.
I watched/read other instances of suicide too.
tee hee, me and seraph posting the same thing. there is balance in the world.
not making the case against the door malfunctioning btw.
so far, things seem logical. looking for more details.
Posted by seraph
I see the Virgo is keeping pace... 😄
It's only so I can check your..mane.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/mar/26/germanwings-plane-crash-investigation-press-conference-live-updates-4u9525
^live text, so we can refresh constantly.
Must be nice to be the rocks of the conversation. Always wishful thinking and hoping the best till the very end.
I expect the worse and hope for the best to prove me wrong. It never does though, not in this world.
He remembered Lubitz as "rather quiet" but friendly.
Rolling with the clich?s
Lufthansa conference:
Winkelmann addresses the issue of cockpit saftey. —What has happened here is a tragic individual event,?? he says. —We are trying to deal with an enigma.?? No systems could prevent such an event, he says.
He acknowledges that, in response to terror threats, cockpit doors have been reinforced such that they cannot be opened even —by weapons??. The doors can only be opened by pilots using a code that all air crew know off by heart. But this can be over-ridden from the cockpit. So even if the pilot entered the code in the dorr from the outside, the co-pilot would have been able to press a button that deployed a five-minute over-ride.
Posted by seraph
I see the Virgo is keeping pace... 😄It's only so I can check your..mane.
If I shake it a magnifying glass, fingerprint kit, and crime scene tape will fall out.
click to expand
Aslan Holmes.
Posted by KVZZMIR11
What happened with the French fighter jet flying next to the Airbus before it crashed? How come he hasn't been interviewed yet?
Because it's probably all a scam just to give people something tragic to think about.
None of it adds up, and nothing ever gets solved. So it's easy to question if it even happened in the first place. Or if it did happen, did it happen in the ways the news said it did?
If an aircraft did crash and all passengers died, you could create/alter any type of recording or story in any way you chose.
No one is alive to prove you wrong.
Posted by Soul
If an aircraft did crash and all passengers died, you could create/alter any type of recording or story in any way you chose.No one is alive to prove you wrong.
this is the only real truth to any of this.
click to expand
They form a line to formalize the former lies.
Posted by Soul
If an aircraft did crash and all passengers died, you could create/alter any type of recording or story in any way you chose.No one is alive to prove you wrong.
this is the only real truth to any of this.
click to expand
Yeah..
Following that mindset..we don't need an investigation team at all. I mean...any report would be forged. Better leave any accident up in the air on what the cause was. No way can that ever go wrong.
For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_rudder_issues
Had it not been investigated, planes would keep on crushing. Maybe they should've forged the report.
I'm sure investigations fail and there is not a perfect track for all investigations ever conducted. But I do believe the majority of them are correct. Outside of utopia, I'm good with a large procent as opposed to.. complete distrust.
Posted by clooneyyears
he was no iceman.
we don't have his chart yet.
Posted by Soul
If an aircraft did crash and all passengers died, you could create/alter any type of recording or story in any way you chose.No one is alive to prove you wrong.
this is the only real truth to any of this.
Yeah..
Following that mindset..we don't need an investigation team at all. I mean...any report would be forged. Better leave any accident up in the air on what the cause was. No way can that ever go wrong.
For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737_rudder_issues
Had it not been investigated, planes would keep on crushing. Maybe they should've forged the report.I'm sure investigations fail and there is not a perfect track for all investigations ever conducted. But I do believe the majority of them are correct. Outside of utopia, I'm good with a large procent as opposed to.. complete distrust.
click to expand
This is what I mean by I expect the ultimate worse and hope for the best to prove me wrong.
I'm not discouraging investigation, I actually want investigation. Just a different type from you.
There is a deeper meaning to everything, and humans are masters of mental manipulation to avoid those who think deep.
They give you a template to investigate to disguise the actual template.
I've seen this though my whole life, as did every human in existence.
Posted by seraph
I know that saying "I don't know and can't form an opinion" isn't in vogue (what with all the YouTube to digest), but let's keep our heads straight until more information comes in.
I agree, expecially for myself.
I'll dig myself into a pit so deep light will never make its way back to me..
Posted by Damnata
press a button that deployed a five-minute over-ride.The descent takes 10 minutes, so theoretically the pilot should've had time to get into the cockpit as long as he didn't take over 4.5 minutes in the bathroom?
click to expand
I think he would've been stuck to the door on the last part of the descent if it went nose down. Gravity and all that.
But yes, more details to get a full picture.
'When you have 150 people in your responsibility, I can't call this suicide, but I understand you can pose this question. '
That is true. You can't call this suicide at all. A person must be severely disturbed, worship satan or something, to kill 150 people.
And he is not just a regular guy or brainwashed like suicide bombers. He is a pilot.
Maybe he was schizophrenic ?
Basically from the point it started descending rapidly..to 700 km/h..it was over if he was outside the door.
Even if he was in the cabin but not strapped to his seat..same thing.
Andreas Lubitz, was born on Dec. 18, 1987.
Now they are saying he's had recent "medical" issues he kept from the airline company.
Regardless...this falls into terrorism and cowardice. Lots of kids/infants on this flight.
Disgusting!
Posted by seraph
Where is it said that the door malfunctioned?The co-pilot deadbolted it and overrode the keypad timer.
How do you know this for sure?
click to expand
I heard the explanation of the override as well along with a demonstration. Hence why they know it was deliberate.
I don't think this man is a monster. He was mentally ill. He was suffering from depression, which is a life-long illness with recurrent episodes and high suicidal risk. He shouldn't have been in charge of other people's lives under such tempting suicidal conditions.
It is not the first or the last time a pilot commits suicide. In fact there are at least other 5 cases worldwide.
Of course, we ask the question how could he take 149 other people in death with him....? The answer is...easily! He probably thought, like many depressive-suicidal people think, that life is a pain not worth going through. He might have even considered he was doing them a favor.
Posted by e11e
I guess everyone has already made up their mind that this man is a monster.May all of the passengers, crew and Andreas Lubitz rest in peace.
If you haven't noticed elle...there are monsters everywhere. However I do have room left for more facts to come forward. That door is digitally hooked up throughout the system in the blackbox/recordings as well as the tower control. Why would they make something like this up?
There is also something about his Sag stellium that tells me he got exited at the thought of this investigation. Maybe he didn't realize they will come so early to a conclusion. He may have hoped it will become another aviation mystery, at least for some time...
However, there was one thing he didn't have under control...the time when the main pilot goes to the loo. I wonder what could have happened if he decided to pee over a large town instead of in the middle of nowhere.
Posted by e11e
they found the voice recorder within 24 hours and it was badly damaged....and less than 24 hours later they have all this information all over the media?perhaps if they could have at least let a week pass or even 72 hours....I may have been more comfortable believing everything that is coming out of their mouth....but I can't.
I do believe it, you wanna know why? (enter logic..can't help it)
The first to be blamed in a crash like this is the Airline Corporations. (Keyword Corporations). When it IS their fault it normally takes MONTHS or even a year or so for the info. to come forward from the black box. (so I understand your thought process there). However, this may be a first (other than 9/11) where the Airline can remove any scrutiny of malfunction of the plane and get away with responsibility..enter IMMEDIATE INFO FROM BLACK BOX. The box wasn't destroyed..it was the first thing they found with the thingamagadget to locate it. Black boxes are made of steel armour plate.
"thingamagadget" = sonar
How is the black box designed?
To protect the stack of memory boards that store information, black boxes are wrapped in a thin layer of aluminum and a 1-inch layer of high-temperature insulation, and then encased in a corrosion-resistant stainless steel or titanium shell.
The black box must be able to withstand an acceleration of 3,400 Gs (3,400 times the force of gravity), which equals an impact velocity of about 310 mph. It must also survive flames up to 2,000 degrees F for one hour, and the beacon should be able to emit a signal once per second while submersed in 20,000 feet of saltwater for 30 days.
The beacon cannot be heard by the human ear but can be easily detected by sonar. The beacon is battery-powered, with a shelf life of up to six years.
What would it take to destroy a black box?
"It is extremely rare for a black box to be destroyed," says Hamilton. "Black boxes have traditionally outperformed their design."
Hamilton says he cannot think of a single case in which both devices have been damaged to the point of there being no useful data.
"It would take a concentrated fire beyond its design strength, or an impact so high that it would be beyond what it could withstand."
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2014/03/11/289189214/what-would-it-take-to-destroy-a-black-box
I can't speak for all scorpio moons, but I personally could never take innocent lives with me.
As much as people ruin everything, I still think their lives and their families wellbeing matter a lot more then myself.
I wonder what the signs were of the infants and kids he took out with him?
Posted by LetltB
I wonder what the signs were of the infants and kids he took out with him?
Obviously a mixture of everything, but I think the same thing sometimes.
Posted by e11e
they found the voice recorder within 24 hours and it was badly damaged....and less than 24 hours later they have all this information all over the media?perhaps if they could have at least let a week pass or even 72 hours....I may have been more comfortable believing everything that is coming out of their mouth....but I can't.
I do believe it, you wanna know why? (enter logic..can't help it)
The first to be blamed in a crash like this is the Airline Corporations. (Keyword Corporations). When it IS their fault it normally takes MONTHS or even a year or so for the info. to come forward from the black box. (so I understand your thought process there). However, this may be a first (other than 9/11) where the Airline can remove any scrutiny of malfunction of the plane and get away with responsibility..enter IMMEDIATE INFO FROM BLACK BOX. The box wasn't destroyed..it was the first thing they found with the thingamagadget to locate it. Black boxes are made of steel armour plate.
can you read what you just wrote?
you seen the plane...it's in a million little bits....and miraculously they found the voice recorder within hours (not days).
click to expand
Elle...did you miss the live footage of the rescue people who found it holding it?
Did this help you understand your situation?
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http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/mar/26/germanwings-plane-crash-investigation-press-conference-live-updates-4u9525
Summary of prosecutor's press conference
Here are the main points of the press conference held by the Marseille public prosecutor, Brice Robin.
The co-pilot of the Germanwings jet that crashed in the French Alps deliberately forced the plane into the descent that led to the disaster, the prosecutor said. He pressed a button that accelerated the Airbus A320??s descent when alone in the cockpit. —It was a voluntary action,?? Robin said.
The co-pilot - named by the prosecutor as Andreas Lubitz, 28, a German citizen, was alone because the pilot had gone to the toilet. When he returned, the co-pilot refused to open the door. —The intention was to destroy this plane,?? he said.
Lubitz was breathing normally at the point of impact, the prosecutor reveals. He said nothing during the final descent, which lasted about 10 minutes. —Absolute silence inside the cockpit. Nothing, no word during the last 10 minutes.??
There was no indication that Lubitz??s actions amounted to terrorism, Robin said. But he stopped short of declaring it suicide, saying only that was a —legitimate?? question to ask.
Cries could be heard just before the impact, the prosecutor said. —The death would have been sudden, immediate.??
Air traffic controllers attempted to contract the plane in the last few minutes before the crash but received no reply from the cockpit.
Robin said he had briefed the families of the dead.