Germanwings Flight (Page 2)

Posted by e11e
the voice recorder and the black box are not the same thing.

Flight recorder
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

An example of a flight data recorder; the underwater locator beacon is the small cylinder on the far right. (Translation of warning message in French: FLIGHT RECORDER DO NOT OPEN) The warning appears in English on the other side.

A flight recorder, colloquially known as a black box, is an electronic recording device placed in an aircraft for the purpose of facilitating the investigation of aviation accidents and incidents.

Any type of aircraft in any condition of flight can be viewed in terms of its input parameters (e.g. control instructions) and output parameters (e.g. flight sensors), without any knowledge of its internal workings, as a black box model. The flight data recorder (FDR) is an independent device that preserves the recent history of the flight through the recording of dozens of parameters collected several times per second. The cockpit voice recorder (CVR) preserves the recent history of the sounds in the cockpit including the conversation of the pilots. The two recorders give a testimony, narrating the flight history with accuracy and impartiality, to assist in an investigation.

FDR and CVR may be combined in a single unit. The two recorders are required by international regulation to be capable of surviving the conditions likely to be encountered in a severe aircraft accident. For this reason, they are typically specified to withstand an impact of 3400 g and temperatures of over 1,000 ??C (1,830 ??F) as required by EUROCAE ED-112. They have been required in commercial aircraft in the US since 1967.

new:

"A ripped letter found in the trash in the apartment of Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz "indicated that he was declared by a medical doctor (as) unfit to work," a Dusseldorf prosecutor says.

150 people died when Germanwings Flight 9525 crashed in the French Alps on Tuesday.

Get complete coverage of breaking news on CNN TV, CNN.com and CNN Mobile."


Guess we'll have to see those medical records now... So far, very consistent. If he's being set up as a patsy...damn good job. We may never know the answer to that...time will tell.

Posted by e11e
they aren't even considering the possibility of a malfunctioning door.

THAT is what worries me.

I get on enough planes every year....that as a passenger...I'd feel a helluva lot more comfortale if they didn't just write this off IMMEDIATELY as a very disturbed individual.

Everyone knows the protocol for these doors on every aircraft changed after 9/11.

I don't want them to just stop here and everyone forget about it after a month or so.

This was already explained. There was no malfunction. Do the research.

...also on the voice/flight recorder

Posted by e11e

Posted by LetltB
new:

"A ripped letter found in the trash in the apartment of Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz "indicated that he was declared by a medical doctor (as) unfit to work," a Dusseldorf prosecutor says.

150 people died when Germanwings Flight 9525 crashed in the French Alps on Tuesday.

Get complete coverage of breaking news on CNN TV, CNN.com and CNN Mobile."


Guess we'll have to see those medical records now... So far, very consistent. If he's being set up as a patsy...damn good job. We may never know the answer to that...time will tell.

and you call me a sheep.

total manipulation in that quote (not by you but by who wrote it).

it's being pounded in everyone's head that the man did it....case closed.

click to expand

I'm sorry you are upset about this and dead set that this man is innocent elle. I'm going with the facts they state & are showing are facts put forth. I watched the live footage and unless they are paid actors representing rescue operatives, and until we are all shown different, this guy is looking worse by the minute. If it's all a farce, I sure as hell hope that comes out.

I don't see how anyone can prove that is not a cover up for a malfunction.

Any type of recording can EASILY be altered,changed, and made to say or express anything you want.

Sure there is.

It's 2015. Make a fingerprint or eye scanner that can only be opened by the pilot and Co pilot. That way the captainor co pilot at least has a fighting change to save everyone.

Chance *

Posted by e11e
yeah, I am upset about it.

I just can't make myself believe that he had such little regard for other people's life.

If someone wants to kill themselves, fine...but don't take people with you.

To think that he didn't even give them an option.....really bothers me.

I just can't fathom that mindset. At all.

I can fathom it...perfect example IS 9/11, the movie theater shooting, multiple high school shootings, mall shootings, etc.... All human beings who disregarded the life of others.
MONSTERS

Posted by LetltB

Posted by e11e
yeah, I am upset about it.

I just can't make myself believe that he had such little regard for other people's life.

If someone wants to kill themselves, fine...but don't take people with you.

To think that he didn't even give them an option.....really bothers me.

I just can't fathom that mindset. At all.

I can fathom it...perfect example IS 9/11, the movie theater shooting, multiple high school shootings, mall shootings, etc.... All human beings who disregarded the life of others.
MONSTERS

click to expand

And thus our cynical jaded nature's further increase in size.

Posted by e11e

Posted by Soul
Sure there is.

It's 2015. Make a fingerprint or eye scanner that can only be opened by the pilot and Co pilot. That way the captainor co pilot at least has a fighting change to save everyone.

this would be a great resolution to work towards.

that way, there would be very little doubt either way.

it would be very easy to indicate whether it was technical malfunction or human error.

click to expand

Exactly. I'm not saying these type of things would be completely eliminated from society, but it gives both the pilot and co pilot a chance to knockout/ kill who ever took over the aircraft and hopefully gain control before it's too late.

I see where your coming from seraph.

There is no evidence in history (to my knowledge) that proves tampering with aircraft evidence. There is however evidence that young people have killed themselves along with others from being mentally unstable.

But that point is exactly why tampering with aircraft evidence and saying it was a suicide would work.

Nonetheless everyone died, and everything else after that doesn't matter anymore.

May they rest in peace and their families eventually find a normal happy state kf mind.

Posted by LetltB

Posted by e11e
yeah, I am upset about it.

I just can't make myself believe that he had such little regard for other people's life.

If someone wants to kill themselves, fine...but don't take people with you.

To think that he didn't even give them an option.....really bothers me.

I just can't fathom that mindset. At all.

I can fathom it...perfect example IS 9/11, the movie theater shooting, multiple high school shootings, mall shootings, etc.... All human beings who disregarded the life of others.
MONSTERS

click to expand

How about those "normal" soldiers bombarding Dresden and other towns and killing thousands of innocent civilians during WW? Not THAT long ago? Or other more recent "casualties"?

.......HEROES? Does obeying an order make you less of a murderer?


All in all, WE are capable of mass murder. Anyone of us. Just get the circumstances right. FACT.

Posted by e11e
All distractions to keep from taking responsibility for a malfunctioning door?

How is this not obvious to everyone else?

It's so sad how people's good names get drug through the dirt in these situations to cover the asses of others. As soon as I heard he had been allegedly suffering from depression I was like OF COURSE HE WAS *eye roll*

May all those souls rest easy and their loved ones move on in oeace. Tragic

All on suicide missions, dwell.

That makes for a much better story and takes the blame off those who will have to spend millions to rectify

Lol at malfunctioning door.

Surely, this would also explain why the plane was MADE to descend deliberately and why the copilot kept quiet for the whole 10 min to the crash, while the main pilot was calling him to open the door, which needs to be LOCKED FROM INSIDE to prevent the main pilot betting in ....

getting in

It is a flaw in the design...maybe malfunctioning door isn't the right term...but let's say the copilot was on a suicide mission - since everyone is dead set on that story - you mean to tell me they haven't thought of this possibility before?

So, a mentally ill person, or terrorist (I know people prefer that term, again, much more sensational) can train to become a pilot... fly a plane with 100+ on board...lock the pilot/copilot out and fly the plane into the side of a mountain and there's nothing anyone can do about it?

That's not a design flaw?

I'm just saying it seems all too convenient to say these are all simply suicide missions. Who's left to take responsibility?

Everyone will make whatever conclusion they see fit ...and that's fine...there's no way to really know now. And it doesn't matter much anyway. Those people aren't coming back.

What is a door design flaw? A door is meant to open and close. That is what is designed for.

Some doors (including my own door) can be locked from inside, so that nobody can open them from the outside, even if they got the key/code. For as long as the person inside does not permit it. This is a safety measure.

The only "flaw" is not in the door design, but in the situation in which only ONE person remains in the cabin. Otherwise, the co-pilot would have had to murder /incapacitate the main pilot before crashing the plane. Not that would have been impossible...

Posted by brianafay
Everyone will make whatever conclusion they see fit ...and that's fine...there's no way to really know now. And it doesn't matter much anyway. .

Oh yes, it is. It's called science. Even if you can't be 100% sure, there is 99.99% certainty that things went this way and not another.

And it always matters to find out the truth. Especially for the families involved in this tragedy.

Posted by e11e

Posted by Undine

Posted by brianafay
Everyone will make whatever conclusion they see fit ...and that's fine...there's no way to really know now. And it doesn't matter much anyway. .

Oh yes, it is. It's called science. Even if you can't be 100% sure, there is 99.99% certainty that things went this way and not another.

And it always matters to find out the truth. Especially for the families involved in this tragedy.

nobody is going to find out the truth, not really.

everyone will simply accept the explanation they are most comfortable with and life will go on.

that's why you have headlines that read like this...

"A ripped letter found in the trash in the apartment of Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz "indicated that he was declared by a medical doctor (as) unfit to work," a Dusseldorf prosecutor says.

150 people died when Germanwings Flight 9525 crashed in the French Alps on Tuesday."

Everyone now associates Andreas Lubitz with being responsible for killing those 150 people and won't be able to see it any other way.

Emotional manipulation.

Especially easy to do with most intellects.

click to expand

Yepppppp

Posted by e11e

nobody is going to find out the truth, not really.

everyone will simply accept the explanation they are most comfortable with and life will go on.

that's why you have headlines that read like this...

"A ripped letter found in the trash in the apartment of Germanwings co-pilot Andreas Lubitz "indicated that he was declared by a medical doctor (as) unfit to work," a Dusseldorf prosecutor says.

150 people died when Germanwings Flight 9525 crashed in the French Alps on Tuesday."

Everyone now associates Andreas Lubitz with being responsible for killing those 150 people and won't be able to see it any other way.

Emotional manipulation.

Especially easy to do with most intellects.

Even if and when there is solid evidence showing the truth, they'll be those who prefer not to believe. Human nature. The truth always comes out in the end.
He's dead, 150 people are dead one person was heard breathing in the cock pit while another man (we are told the captain) was trying to get back into the cockpit also heard on the voice recorder, the plane descended and crashed. Those are the facts, and I'm sure we will sooner or later hear evidence when they air the voice recordings.

Media is reporting what German officials are reporting at press conferences. That is their job. When a thorough background is done on this guy and the captain, we will have more facts.

Until then....it's whatever your heart/mind tells you to believe. I am not 100% sure, I only believe what I see. I saw the wreck, and I saw the video of them locating and showing the black box. When I hear the recording (which is now documented), I'll determine from there. When I hear from this guy's flesh and blood, his doctors, girlfriend, and friends..I'll determine from there. Until then...nothing in this thread is 100% .

...including my views and take on what's been put out there.

Posted by seraph

And suicides aren't exactly an easy excuse. They are extremely rare. This would be the sixth one.

http://news.aviation-safety.net/2013/12/22/list-of-aircraft-accidents-caused-by-pilot-suicide/

^8, this one makes 9 (so far everything is explained in a logical manner to me)

vs

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_aircraft_hijackings

I don't know, what's the thing a door should guard against more? By sheer numbers/frequency.

Posted by e11e
at the end of the day, when all this is over....the real question is...

HOW DO WE PREVENT THIS FROM HAPPENING AGAIN?

nobody is going to take responsibility for that answer...because then they would appear to accepting partial blame.

as long as they can point the finger at it being the fault of a very instable individual.....it's just not going to happen.

THAT is the issue I'm having here.

The fact that the airline IS quickly pointing the finger, gives some reason to believe they have nothing to hide (plane malfunction etc..). Why would they document what was on that recording so quickly and not let others HEAR it? Would be pretty damn stupid. We all know there are lawsuits when this happens, I'm going by the speed of them documenting what is on the recorder is potentially the truth...I don't know German law, but I'm almost positive the family's lawyers will request and acquire that proof. I know my ass would if my kid was on that plane. For sure.

How do we prevent it?

Have we prevented mass murders of the nut jobs gunning down innocent people in schools and malls with new gun controls—

NOPE...

It's a crap shoot once you board a plane or get behind the wheel of a car.

...or get into the subway, bus station, whatever.

If they allow nut jobs in society this problem will continue.

...That's assuming of course what's been reported on this guy and that he has mental issues..

Jury is still out on that.

Has ANYONE heard anything yet from this guy's friends, acquaintances or family yet? Will they lie?

...stay tuned.

Good people can also snap.

Cannot prevent life, in general.

Tragedies are part of life. But there should be answers. No one will get down to this guy's psyche in those moments, but getting as close to the answer means the world of difference for relatives and friends.

As a friend of someone who died in a tragedy, it means a lot to me. It was the only way to preserve my sanity.

Posted by DwellingOnMove
Now they want to have found "Krankschreibungen" in his appartment.

You go to doctor and ask him to write you cannot work. Then you go home and does not work on that period of time.

So were his doctors in Barcellona? Or in Germany? Did he ignore their certificates because of the fear to lose his job? Or was he always changing his mind?

Would Rob Williams kill his passengers if he were a pilot and at the end of his game? If you do suicide where you danced, how can a software engineer kill himself?

Yea...suicide is not the term here for sure. So then they have to prove WHY..now that they say so convincingly it was intentional.

They will go through his PC, his background, and recent flights with other pilots. They are doing this on the captain as well, rightfully so. Hopefully more will come about?

I wasn't talking about manipulation or any emotional involvement.

But of the FACT that people investigating this have been able to HEAR what was going on in the cockpit. It's like being on a direct line to police while a crime is committed.

Based on the FACTS, it is safe to exclude (by people investigating this, not by me and you) many different scenarios. What we are left with, is the story as we've heard it.

If something else had happened (for example, a terrorist waited in the front row for the pilot to go to the loo, then stormed and killed the co-pilot, locked the door securely and crashed the plane), the question remains Of WHY OH WHY no indicative sound was heard.