venusianbull
@venusianbull
15 Years25,000+ PostsTaurus
Comments: 438 · Posts: 33721 · Topics: 241
Is cheating in a relationship... (Page 2)
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This is not about both sides of the Scales, this is about basic understanding on a very REAL level. I did not stand here before everyone and damn them to the Seventh Bolgia of Dante's Inferno, I stated MY truth. This is what I believe. What I know. And if that renders me the more closed minded of the argument. So be it.
This is about honesty, and honoring someone else. Respecting them, their feelings. THAT ( Open..wtfevah ) is not a relationship, it's a complete farce of everything it stands for.
Oh boo-hoo. Should I feel BADLY that my man knows exactly where he stands with me? Oh DEAR. I'm faithful. I'm such an asshole. The SHAME of wanting to have integrity, security and solidarity. I mean honestly, I should be taken out back by the hollyhocks and flogged.
This is about honesty, and honoring someone else. Respecting them, their feelings. THAT ( Open..wtfevah ) is not a relationship, it's a complete farce of everything it stands for.
Oh boo-hoo. Should I feel BADLY that my man knows exactly where he stands with me? Oh DEAR. I'm faithful. I'm such an asshole. The SHAME of wanting to have integrity, security and solidarity. I mean honestly, I should be taken out back by the hollyhocks and flogged.
Posted by venusianbull
"Live and let live." That is the one of the weakest things I have every heard in my life. If 'insecurity' means respecting my relationship, my man that I do not share my body with any other than him and expect him to do the same? Are you expecting me to believe you sanction another mans body all over your womans? His body in hers? Because why exactly? Because your thought processes are so lofty you can 'rise above' such mundane and petty things, is that what you're telling me? Why enter a relationship at all in that case. That is not a relationship. "OH HAI HON! Who'd you bone today!?"
I think NOT.
That completely lays waste to everything that should exist in a relationship. Bringing it into the realm of lies. The very first one believing that it wouldn't bother you. That it wouldn't hurt. No trust, that is not respect and feeling towards someone you said you'd elevate above all others. It reduces everything down to animal base level.
You misunderstood live and let live. You would feel at loss if your partner "boned" another woman? right? So you depend on this person for your happiness and security...hence you're gambling your emotions and feelings. If you read back a bit there's a part I wrote that says being complete BEFORE you get into the relationship. People get into relationships because they feel it's a standard and a condition to their happiness. That's delusional.
Posted by gemtaur
I don't think VB is critiquing it. I think she is making the point that RESPECT isn't part of the relationship. Consent does not equal respect. I can give you consent to do as you please with me, but that does not mean that you respect me.
Respect for humans involves rationality, not just sensuality, as it does with animals. In the animal kingdom, no one's getting it on without the consent of the other either...but there's no respect involved. Why? Because THEY ARE NOT RATIONAL so that consent is limited to no harm as opposed to also including "respect".
Do animals understand the concept of respect? No.
And if respect should not be part of our human "expectations" in the context of adult, consensual relationships, then, why not?
Why should pleasure override respect?
Correct me if I'm wrong VB.
Correct. No alteration needed Gemtaur.
Posted by hybred27Posted by venusianbull
"Live and let live." That is the one of the weakest things I have every heard in my life. If 'insecurity' means respecting my relationship, my man that I do not share my body with any other than him and expect him to do the same? Are you expecting me to believe you sanction another mans body all over your womans? His body in hers? Because why exactly? Because your thought processes are so lofty you can 'rise above' such mundane and petty things, is that what you're telling me? Why enter a relationship at all in that case. That is not a relationship. "OH HAI HON! Who'd you bone today!?"
I think NOT.
That completely lays waste to everything that should exist in a relationship. Bringing it into the realm of lies. The very first one believing that it wouldn't bother you. That it wouldn't hurt. No trust, that is not respect and feeling towards someone you said you'd elevate above all others. It reduces everything down to animal base level.
You misunderstood live and let live. You would feel at loss if your partner "boned" another woman? right? So you depend on this person for your happiness and security...hence you're gambling your emotions and feelings. If you read back a bit there's a part I wrote that says being complete BEFORE you get into the relationship. People get into relationships because they feel it's a standard and a condition to their happiness. That's delusional.click to expand
You are thick as a fence post. You do realize that.
If you think that being with someone is a delusion, then you better check your very existence. Or we could spin clear on back to the beginning of time if you like.
Gambling emotions and feelings. Hmmmm, sounds like...now where did I put that..why YES, it sounds like life. Everything is a gamble, nothing a certainty. So where is the error in thinking exactly. Now, you are going to tell me everything else in life that should be held with some sanctity in the world should just be allowed to let slide. Is that right?
I have depended on myself thanks. You keep bringing that up as though it's a character flaw on my part, when it's a difference of stance. Nor did you answer my question.
I do not believe not now, nor ever, that physical outside the parameters of a relationship is right. Because
it isn't. You can show me everything in your arsenal, every tool at your disposal; well hell! You can even attack me personally if you choose too. But not that you'd do anything of the sort, for you're above that, eh? Being such a free-thinker and all.
Posted by size zero superhero
No however when both respect the idea of outer sources as pleasure, why must it equate to disregard of the other?
Some believe humans are not inherently designed to meet a one-mate-for-life philosophy. If they can adhere to this without feeling inadequate, disrespected, pushed aside--or whatever other negativity may stem--let 'em.
Personally I would also feel that an open relationship is a pointless gamble, but I'm applying this solely to myself. What made me interpret your review as biased was the introduction of "live and let live = weak".
Because a relationship is not a game, it's not kids setting around playing Monopoly FFS, it's the real deal.
Posted by gemtaur
LMAO
What's delusional is someone who wants to have his cake and eat it too and packages it in terms of security and unconditional love.
Have you been able to shag any women using this nonsense? Or are you trying it out here for size?
Unconditional love is not the same thing as an open relationship. Want it? Who is anyone to judge you. Just don't call it unconditional love because that DEBASES love. And if you need that explained to you, then, perhaps you should pack up and move to the jungle.
By the way, you have yet to answer my question, which I posed at the very beginning.
what was the point of my post? Did I post it because I thought cheating was ok? Or did I post it to prove a point? I'm not going to answer this because you missed the point...along with everyone else who thinks that I think cheating is right. That's a superficial view of my opening post.
Posted by gemtaur
LMAO
What's delusional is someone who wants to have his cake and eat it too and packages it in terms of security and unconditional love.
Have you been able to shag any women using this nonsense? Or are you trying it out here for size?
Unconditional love is not the same thing as an open relationship. Want it? Who is anyone to judge you. Just don't call it unconditional love because that DEBASES love. And if you need that explained to you, then, perhaps you should pack up and move to the jungle.
By the way, you have yet to answer my question, which I posed at the very beginning.
YEP.
^ And agreeing again.
-.-...I'm not caught and if you think I'm afraid of being caught by anonymous ppl that don't know me then you're mistaken. It is common for sheep to follow each other. And sheep in our society aren't uncommon. Numbers don't mean anything to me. I know what I have said and what I meant by what I have said. And so far no one has understood my question.
Well how enlightened of them. May I wish them every happiness in life and much joy. I am quite interested in why you affixed my words to your parents swinger friends though. Rather odd mental segue that.
Well then hybred, quit dancing around the damned thing and ask it outright. It's so crazy it just might work.
meh I don't feel like it anymore...I might post later if I feel up to it.
this had everything to do with wrongly placing your security in a relationship and how to avoid going through relationship problems rather then actually cheating...cheating is wrong ill admit. Maybe this will help you understand my post.
Alright, I'll be back in the morning in case you've added to it. 🙂
The op makes a lot of prejudiced assumptions. Sex between people who love each other is a physical manifestation of the love they share so when one partner wants to get their rocks off with another it is a betrayal of their intimacy. Yeah, intimacy, not a big word in the 21st century. We're all about immediate gratification and satisfying our selfish needs. Superficiality reigns supreme! If it feels good, how can it be bad?
Where are you getting that people want an exclusive relationship out of insecurity? The opposite is true, only insecure people would feel unworthy of love.
This seems to be more about the lack of understanding love rather than sex issues. Because if you're saying that you can love someone and still have sex with another then what makes another sexually attractive to you? The face & body? It gets technical here since feelings aren't in play. And this is not worrying? The superficiality, the lack of connectedness...and to never experience the transcendence & utter ecstasy of making love. It's not Hollywood darlin', it's what people experience & Hollywood is merely trying to capture it.
Where are you getting that people want an exclusive relationship out of insecurity? The opposite is true, only insecure people would feel unworthy of love.
This seems to be more about the lack of understanding love rather than sex issues. Because if you're saying that you can love someone and still have sex with another then what makes another sexually attractive to you? The face & body? It gets technical here since feelings aren't in play. And this is not worrying? The superficiality, the lack of connectedness...and to never experience the transcendence & utter ecstasy of making love. It's not Hollywood darlin', it's what people experience & Hollywood is merely trying to capture it.
Posted by size zero superheroPosted by venusianbull
Well how enlightened of them. May I wish them every happiness in life and much joy. I am quite interested in why you affixed my words to your parents swinger friends though. Rather odd mental segue that.
Nothing wrong with the application of examples, IMO. A fitting instance, at that.click to expand
If you say so, I still do not see it, but mmmmhokay. And nor do I, hence all the information on my own life experience to date. So, if one woman valuing something = swinger couple in that instance then you keep on trucking with that.
Posted by gemtaur
Or is it meep meep? Bah!
— Baa, baa black sheep, have you any wool? Yessir, yessir, three bags full.. ??
🙂 And before coffee even. Going to rectify that shortly here.
Here comes my Venus in Cap...
Why is the divorce rate so high? Just puzzling isn't it? Lol. :/
I'll come back. It's getting too busy at work atm
Why is the divorce rate so high? Just puzzling isn't it? Lol. :/
I'll come back. It's getting too busy at work atm
^ 🙂 It is quite an enigma that.
Alright you two. *giving hairy eyeball* Don't make me get defensive. 😛
😄
BG: "but modern men rarely cheat in order to further their chances of producing offspring so I doubt that is the motivation behind cheating for men."
Perhaps not on a conscious level, but isn't that the basis for the drive itself? Its clear that modern men no longer benefit from spreading their seed all over the place, but they are still biologically hardwired to behave as if it does.
So, while I do think that cheating is often a reflection of what is lacking in a relationship, I don't underestimate the part that pure carnal instinct plays, as well.
I'm not condoning or excusing anything, I just like to approach relationships honestly and practically. I know that men can love their woman, and still desire sex outside of a relationship, especially after being with one person for a long time. Whether right or wrong, I would still rather be equipped with this knowledge, and not enter relationships with rose colored glasses.
I always hear people say relationships are hard work, which they are, but I think people mistakenly find them hard because we are conditioned to have too high expectations of each other. Whether we are in a relationship or not, we are still human and the hard part is accepting each other even when our animal natures rear their heads. Funny, many like to believe we're so 'above' animals as well...when really, its all an act! lol
And no, I'm not suggesting one shouldn't expect loyalty and honesty. I'm suggesting we understand that because we are human, loyalty and honesty will sometimes be tested, and even if one fails at a particular moment, that should'nt automatically make the rest of the relationship null and void.
ALSO, I think many so called victims of cheating and all the other pitfalls of relationships have themselves to blame, tbh. We jump into relationships without foresight, because in typical human nature, the high from infatuation blinds us. People reveal themselves upon first meeting them....we just have to open our eyes.
Perhaps not on a conscious level, but isn't that the basis for the drive itself? Its clear that modern men no longer benefit from spreading their seed all over the place, but they are still biologically hardwired to behave as if it does.
So, while I do think that cheating is often a reflection of what is lacking in a relationship, I don't underestimate the part that pure carnal instinct plays, as well.
I'm not condoning or excusing anything, I just like to approach relationships honestly and practically. I know that men can love their woman, and still desire sex outside of a relationship, especially after being with one person for a long time. Whether right or wrong, I would still rather be equipped with this knowledge, and not enter relationships with rose colored glasses.
I always hear people say relationships are hard work, which they are, but I think people mistakenly find them hard because we are conditioned to have too high expectations of each other. Whether we are in a relationship or not, we are still human and the hard part is accepting each other even when our animal natures rear their heads. Funny, many like to believe we're so 'above' animals as well...when really, its all an act! lol
And no, I'm not suggesting one shouldn't expect loyalty and honesty. I'm suggesting we understand that because we are human, loyalty and honesty will sometimes be tested, and even if one fails at a particular moment, that should'nt automatically make the rest of the relationship null and void.
ALSO, I think many so called victims of cheating and all the other pitfalls of relationships have themselves to blame, tbh. We jump into relationships without foresight, because in typical human nature, the high from infatuation blinds us. People reveal themselves upon first meeting them....we just have to open our eyes.
Posted by brianafay
Here comes my Venus in Cap...
Why is the divorce rate so high? Just puzzling isn't it? Lol. :/
I'll come back. It's getting too busy at work atm
Because women have options and have leveled the playing field. If we had them back then, the divorce rates would be just as high. I don't think society has declined 'morally' and all that other crap. We are who are, who've we've always been, and who we will remain. The game has changed, is all.
One more thing. Open relationships, whether we could do them or not, are still relationships.
All an open relationship states is that if one chooses to sleep outside the relationship, they're honesty will be respected and their desire granted. How is that not a relationship? The rules are just changed a bit.
Its like saying gays shouldn't have the right to marry, because their relationships don't consist of a man and a woman.
An open relationship may not always consist of just 2 people sleeping together, but who are you to negate the validity of it being just as much a relationship as anyone elses, especially when the parties involved are consenting?
All an open relationship states is that if one chooses to sleep outside the relationship, they're honesty will be respected and their desire granted. How is that not a relationship? The rules are just changed a bit.
Its like saying gays shouldn't have the right to marry, because their relationships don't consist of a man and a woman.
An open relationship may not always consist of just 2 people sleeping together, but who are you to negate the validity of it being just as much a relationship as anyone elses, especially when the parties involved are consenting?
Posted by hybred27
People forget to strengthen themselves and expect the relationship to complete what's missing. How about feeling complete BEFORE you get into a relationship. So that way you have nothing to lose if it doesn't work out.
Agreed. That's not to say there won't be some sadness, etc, but in the end, all you can really do, is take care of YOU.
Also, now that I'm older (and more or less wiser), I don't believe that someones cheating has one flying f@ck to do with me. I don't have a fear that "I've failed" or "I'm not good enough." I think, "Damn, they are stupid, they had the key to the city and they lost it all for a piece of a $ $ - oh well, their problem, not mine."
I think as Ms.P has stated, it's one thing to have expectations (as any sane person should in any relationship - friendship, business, etc) but I'm a practical person, and while I would love for things to always work out the way I'd like - Murphy's Law always shows up and proves me wrong.
I think as Ms.P has stated, it's one thing to have expectations (as any sane person should in any relationship - friendship, business, etc) but I'm a practical person, and while I would love for things to always work out the way I'd like - Murphy's Law always shows up and proves me wrong.
Oh dear god. Reading this has just really emphasized the reason exactly why I am not in a relationship. I have venus at 0degrees in Aquarius. I just honestly can't see myself ever truly finding "the one"
Posted by HeavenlyHera
Oh dear god. Reading this has just really emphasized the reason exactly why I am not in a relationship. I have venus at 0degrees in Aquarius. I just honestly can't see myself ever truly finding "the one"
and when I say the one. I mean the one person I could spend my life being faithful to. It sounds horrible but I feel I am better not being in a relationship because I just really don't want to hurt anyone. And I don't want to get hurt myself.
Exactly.
Posted by HeavenlyHeraPosted by HeavenlyHera
Oh dear god. Reading this has just really emphasized the reason exactly why I am not in a relationship. I have venus at 0degrees in Aquarius. I just honestly can't see myself ever truly finding "the one"
and when I say the one. I mean the one person I could spend my life being faithful to. It sounds horrible but I feel I am better not being in a relationship because I just really don't want to hurt anyone. And I don't want to get hurt myself.click to expand
Fearing hurt will only hold you back, as hurt is inevitable.
Besides, we need to hurt to appreciate not hurting.
I thought this was about why cheating is really "that bad" in a relationship...not another thread about open "relationships" which is why I answered the way I did...
I don't want to talk about open relationships, the whole idea just annoys me (at least I'm honest!)
Going off the OP...
I think what's annoying is the mindset that people are somehow "insecure" if they want a committed relationship.
That's human nature - to want to love and be loved. Some people CAN share multiple partners, and still feel loved if their partner loves other people in the same way (open relationships.) However, some people need the exclusivity. They need to feel like they're not just another...they need to feel special to someone. I don't think the latter person is any less evolved because they want commitment.
Like get over yourself if you think that. :/
I don't want to talk about open relationships, the whole idea just annoys me (at least I'm honest!)
Going off the OP...
I think what's annoying is the mindset that people are somehow "insecure" if they want a committed relationship.
That's human nature - to want to love and be loved. Some people CAN share multiple partners, and still feel loved if their partner loves other people in the same way (open relationships.) However, some people need the exclusivity. They need to feel like they're not just another...they need to feel special to someone. I don't think the latter person is any less evolved because they want commitment.
Like get over yourself if you think that. :/
He didn't say you're insecure if you want a committed relationship.
Cheating is such a sensitive topic, people can even read right once the word is even mentioned! lol
*That* is essentially the point.
can't even**
With that being said, yes cheating is "that bad" if you're in a committed relationship in which the two of you have agreed to be devoted and exclusive with one another. It's a betrayal of the trust and intimacy built in the relationship.
It kind of sounds like you (OP) don't want traditional relationships, as you've already said you find it annoying when females want commitment from you. It would be in your best interest to explore open relationships in that case. That way, it is agreed upon and understood, and cheating is not possible. Problem solved. 🙂
It's all about your personal view on what defines a relationship.
I don't know why views are changing - if it has to do with women's liberation, or not...sounds pretty plausible - but they are. & it's no surprise to me that divorce rates are climbing due to it. People who do not believe in committed "traditional" relationships should not marry in the traditional sense.
There's no reason why anyone should feel like they have to make that commitment when they don't want to or feel it is necessary.
It kind of sounds like you (OP) don't want traditional relationships, as you've already said you find it annoying when females want commitment from you. It would be in your best interest to explore open relationships in that case. That way, it is agreed upon and understood, and cheating is not possible. Problem solved. 🙂
It's all about your personal view on what defines a relationship.
I don't know why views are changing - if it has to do with women's liberation, or not...sounds pretty plausible - but they are. & it's no surprise to me that divorce rates are climbing due to it. People who do not believe in committed "traditional" relationships should not marry in the traditional sense.
There's no reason why anyone should feel like they have to make that commitment when they don't want to or feel it is necessary.
Posted by hybred27
Could loving that deeply just be another form of insecurity?
Posted by hybred27
Is it insecurity that causes a person to want to keep that other person to themselves...
Posted by hybred27
If people learned to become more secure for themselves, this type of problem wouldn't occur.
Posted by hybred27
ppl think that they NEED to be in a relationship and live the romantic life...i think that's gross and its a big turn off for me when I meet girls like that.click to expand
Please don't even imply I cannot read right becasue I am so emotional over someone else cheating....
jerkoff 🙂
None of those quotes ever even suggested you're insecure if you want a committed relationship.
Need and want are two different things, and are the root of the OPs point.
He also never said he thought cheating was okay.
What I took was, he was questioning WHY cheating was such a big deal, beyond your surface reasoning. Why the NEED for a relationship.
But instead, everyone turned it into "I never cheat" "Cheating is wrong" "A relationship is about trust" blah blah, no shit, blah blah.
He wasn't asking for people to state the seemingly obvious.
Need and want are two different things, and are the root of the OPs point.
He also never said he thought cheating was okay.
What I took was, he was questioning WHY cheating was such a big deal, beyond your surface reasoning. Why the NEED for a relationship.
But instead, everyone turned it into "I never cheat" "Cheating is wrong" "A relationship is about trust" blah blah, no shit, blah blah.
He wasn't asking for people to state the seemingly obvious.
Posted by aPiscesPrincess
lol Yeah sure I'll agree to be in an open relationship.. then later, oops sorry I gave you an std because I slept with so many other guys and basicly became an unpaid whore like we agreed, and got pregnant by some other guy I don't even know the name of 😢
...NOT
Yes, we know you don't like open relationships. KingPisces knows your not a whore like his last girlfriend, relax.
Open relationships aren't even the basis of this thread.
And fwiw, condoms exist and are pretty effective.
Most know how to use them. The problem occurs when they don't use them.
One can get an STD while being in a so called monogamous relationship, as well. In fact, it happens way more often than people are comfortable with.
Whether you're committed or not, if not using protection, you're at risk.
One can get an STD while being in a so called monogamous relationship, as well. In fact, it happens way more often than people are comfortable with.
Whether you're committed or not, if not using protection, you're at risk.
There is not a 'good' chance they will break. It is actually extremely, and I mean EXTREMELY rare for a condom to break.
That's a fact.
That's a fact.
The guise of monogamy won't protect you nearly as well as a condom.
"Right but it's exponential increase if you start sleeping with multiple partners...That's what aPP is trying to get at..."
Yea but she's speaking as if people don't use condoms. Perhaps she doesn't, but there are a lot of responsible people out there who do sleep around and use protection and are fine.
If you're sleeping around without a condom, well then of course...
I know of far too many people who only found out their partner was cheating, because they contracted an STD....coincidentally, they never used condoms in their 'monogamous' relationship.
Yea but she's speaking as if people don't use condoms. Perhaps she doesn't, but there are a lot of responsible people out there who do sleep around and use protection and are fine.
If you're sleeping around without a condom, well then of course...
I know of far too many people who only found out their partner was cheating, because they contracted an STD....coincidentally, they never used condoms in their 'monogamous' relationship.
"You're looking at 1/5 or 20% failure rate..."
Which was more than likely due human error, and not failure of the condom itself.
Which was more than likely due human error, and not failure of the condom itself.
"Although condoms do provide protection against getting pregnant, they also carry a 15% failure rate."
That represents the non perfect use category.
Its about 2% if used correctly each time.
That represents the non perfect use category.
Its about 2% if used correctly each time.
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I think NOT.
That completely lays waste to everything that should exist in a relationship. Bringing it into the realm of lies. The very first one believing that it wouldn't bother you. That it wouldn't hurt. No trust, that is not respect and feeling towards someone you said you'd elevate above all others. It reduces everything down to animal base level.