Devalued by a Narcissist (Page 2)

Posted by ellessque
fair enough tiki. you seen what you wanted to see because your beliefs and values are very much engrained in you. sometimes you have a difficult time looking outside of the box.

if someone were to make me feel those things that I listed, I would simply think they are reflecting those feelings onto me because that is how they feel about themselves. Because I'm a martyr/fixer (inherently) my primary goal would be to make them feel the positive opposite of that list.

therefore, it's sort of impossible for me to feel those things. you have to remember, scorpios have very large egos and can be extremely self-absorbed. It's something that protects us from ourselves because when we are with someone we set up shop in their head.

if i came on the board and gave off a certain vibe, it usually was because he was, and I was looking for ways to make him feel better about himself. hence the martyr/fixer.

the only time i get uncomfortable is if someone actually finds one of my insecurities and brings it to my attention. that is when i become in a state of panic. the cap did that, but he also showed me how to make them go away and fix them for good. so my dependency became stronger. he SAW me, really, really SAW me, not just my surface. At that moment, i needed someone to do that for me.

we both served our purpose.

so therefore I owed it to him to stick around.

I understand and I can accept that was your truth with him. At the time I was just disgusted with your energy, this man seem to be bringing you down OR you seemed to be willing to allow him to bring you down and that's my opinion of course, I don't expect you to agree with me at all. It seemed you were stuck and you wear adamant that you stay stuck on him as if you were obligated to share the same dark energy together with him, I was frustrated at your inability to see this man wasn't right for you and he was bringing you down, a few other people besides myself could see you were in a dark relationship and your strings were being pulled by this man. I see you around the board sometimes and I see and sense that you are a much more healthier woman and I like that person, I just didn't like the person you were being at the time, now I can see a much more calmer emotionally balanced strong minded woman.

Posted by ellessque
thanks tiki.

the problem is, just like the OP has stated, we like dark energy and the dark relationship. it makes us happy.

these days i'm just "present". no feelings of up or down. just "present". THAT is what I was afraid of and that is what the OP is concerned about.

is it twisted and wrong? nope, not at all. it's the scorpio.

she just needs to be reassured there isn't absolutely anything "wrong" with her, that's all.

Okay so I get it...Some scorpio women revel and play around in the abyss of dark energy and it makes her happy....Now that's interesting lol

No I don't think anything is wrong with lostheart, we all have been in dark spaces with men, I personally don't love to dwell in the dark with a man but apparently some women do and on some level I will have to wrap my head around that and accept that some women will be drawn to and attracted to men with dark energy and it's going to take a bit more time to release herself from that situation as opposed to getting out immediately...Understood

::: shakes head :::

Posted by ellessque
well, i'm interested to see if that is what she is feeling. because, dealing with a man very similar to what she has described (not really sure if he's a narcissist but the thought crossed my mind), i didn't have the kinds of feelings you are describing.

I never felt stupid
I never felt ugly
I never felt unable
I never felt undesirable
I never felt inferior
I never doubted my worth
I was on edge and had anxiety because it was like a "fix" of some sort, sort of a sense of thrill and excitement

Actually, the feelings you described were actually quite the opposite. I had a feeling of being invincible and in total control of my life because I was digging the control I had handed to him.

If her scenerio is different, I may be completely wrong in what I'm saying to her and I digress.

I did feel ugly, undesireable, inferior BUT ONLY TO HIM. It's strange. To other men I know I am a good catch. I just feel like to HIM I'll never be good enough.

Posted by ellessque
lol...you are right. I am in another world. 😛


Dear P,
you made the mistake of telling me about the pisces grudge in the past. so, knowing that you are pissed off at me is only going to make me mess with you because I know it doesn't matter what I say or do, i get no second chance. you hold on to grudges like a scorp in venus holds on to hair samples. i thought you knew me, really. i thought you could figure out what i was doing on that thread. guess not. so, with that said, i'll be obsessed with you for a few days until I get bored.

In reality, you're wrong .. I don't hold grudges .. I merely lost respect for you, and no longer trust your judgement.

This seems to be the theam with these men. They take goodlooking smart women and find their inner weakness and exploit it for thier own gain.

I attracted him into my life and he found my weakness and used it against me. Aqua was right. That is F-ED UP!!!!!!!!

So I know what happened and why it happened, now I just need to know how to get past it all and feel better.

It's been a very long night for me, it's daytime now. I'm taking a nap.

What that means is if I hear you giving advice to women, I counter it .. and not because of a grudge .. because you're leading the women astray.


I couldn't care a less about your confusion as to why you think you know how I feel and why I do or don't do the things I do .. because whatever it is you are speculating due to some fantasy that I can't get over you so I have to resort to begrudging you only makes you look like you think of yourself as that important.


Fact, if I hear you giving woman advice .. it's wrong, so I correct you. However, 90% of the time, you don't even help the person, instead you use it to your advantage to help yourself and your own problems.

Posted by lostheart
This seems to be the theam with these men. They take goodlooking smart women and find their inner weakness and exploit it for thier own gain.

I attracted him into my life and he found my weakness and used it against me. Aqua was right. That is F-ED UP!!!!!!!!

1. a person being goodlooking is in the eyes of the beholder, so however you view yourself isn't relevant to anything that has to do with this man

2. a smart woman wouldn't allow a man to come to her to fuck her until he felt good enough to go find better fucks for the physical ... meaning this ...

... you are good for his emotional needs, and not good enough for his physical needs because if you were then you would be the one he would run to when he was at his highs.

a smart woman wouldn't allow that ... so you can scratch smart off the list

3. he was exploiting you .. you've done all of this to yourself. You are now back to square one where you put all blame on him and hold no accountibility for yourself.

You're not a victim .. to say the quote above means you believe you've been victimized and you haven't .. a person who willingly participates isn't a victim .... you lie to yourself and it looks like you have plenty of people to convince you it's the truth .. truth being, he did this to you because you are helpless because of your father.


sobeit ... you choose to not be emotinally healthy and I cannot make you ... good luck being able to help yourself.

3. he was exploiting you .. you've done all of this to yourself. You are now back to square one where you put all blame on him and hold no accountibility for yourself.

correction .. he *wasn't* exploiting you

LS, a depth of a person doesn't have to do with what you think they have or don't have.

It doesnt' matter what your approach is, Elle .. what kind of bullshit is that?

How the communication happens doesnt' outwiegh the message.


Ok, maybe you had an agenda with that woman .. then you should have talked to her privately, rather than put a message out there for all women who didn't know your secret, and heard the message for what it was.


Unspoken what? You know nothing about my approach if you think it even has to do with approaches. I don't give a fuck about approaches .... it's the message. Who cares about some approach you have in your mind that I must not be getting. I don't care about your fucking approach. Is that a side-step so you don't have to hear the truth?



You told a woman that it is perfectly ok to take a man who not only belongs to another woman, this woman KNOWS ALL ABOUT the other woman because he has only been with his partner for 2 months, so how seriously can he be taking his relationship?


And you honestly think that because you had an agenda with this woman that this was ok to say it openly in public .. where there are women reading who are confused and didn't know you had a method to your madness?


of course you would think that ... just look here, you think your approach is what is in question even here, so why wouldn't you put priority over your approach then, instead of the real priority = the message

You know what?


It doesn't matter. That woman, and others reading this, know that you were wrong in telling her that ... and THAT is what matters.


Have fun thinking it's something else to which you can obsess over when bored ... because you've already proven that when your feathers are ruffled you reach for something to use as a defense rather than actually hear the message.



Others do though, and the woman in question did .. and whether she acknowledged it at the time, or not is irrelevant .. because I know she heard the truth = it's NOT acceptable to take another woman's man.


So, whatever you want to believe ... have fun believing .. I know I'm right, and that's good enough for me.

My messages are always heard.

Posted by ellessque

because if you fuck up the approach your message doesn't get heard.

did i really need to spell that out.

Yes, you do need to spell that out, however, you are the one who needs to read it and two, you have spelled it incorrectly.


As soon as I enter a room .. every person in the room responds to me, Elle. Whether they agree with what I said or not isn't the point here. The point here is that they heard it.

Again, they are hearing me now .... it is NOT acceptable for a woman to knowingly step into another women's territory, and your hidden agenda which altered your approach doesn't change the message to make what you said right.

And it has nothing to do with a grudge, that is just an excuse you said so you don't have to face the truth of it ... if you put a label on it, then you no longer have to be accountible for it because then it becomes another persons fault.



Pretty much what the woman in here is doing and you all are telling her she's right.

So long as there is label to put blame on ... then there's no accountibility.


I have a grudge, you say = you don't have believe that you shouldnt' have said that out loud
This man is an N = she has a valid reason for spending 3 years letting herself be shit

The person who created this thread is not just like you.


I'm beginning to see the real issue here .. if with every thread, you think it's about you, then naturally you're going to view every situation subjectively enough to answer that way.

Posted by ellessque
hold on P.

I've been talking my virgo for about two months now. If some woman came in that was a better match for him and swooped down to clutch him in her claws there isn't anything I could do about it. To each their own. Two months can hardly be a committed relationship. Two years, yes. Two month, no way.

This woman is at fault ..... yes, she is at fault .. for spending 3 years with a man who only wanted to use her up.

And it doesn't matter what label you or tiki or anybody else puts on the man .. because the man didn't do anything wrong.

He did nothign wrong .. she wronged herself. And so long as people are telling her that it's ok that she did this, the more fucked up she's going to be.


Because it's NOT ok to spend THREE YEARS in that scenerio.


At the end of the OP she talks about how she wants him .. and you all have successfully convinced her that she's helpless to this because she's been conditioned to be this way because of not getting what she wanted from her father.

You just enabled her, by you, I mean all of you who told her it's not her fault

Posted by ellessque
"I'm beginning to see the real issue here .. if with every thread, you think it's about you, then naturally you're going to view every situation subjectively enough to answer that way."

You are absolutely correct. I've never denied that. Every single thread is about me. This is my world. Just like when you log on....it's yours.

That's the beauty of message boards.

Actually, that is false .. I never (rarely) put myself in anothers situation to measure it according to how I would feel because how I would feel is irrelevant because we aren't talking about me .. we are talking about the person with the problem.

Everybody here does realize that this man did nothing wrong, don't you?

We do as we are led to believe is acceptable within the terms of a relationship.


It's just like if your man was allowed to go out every Saturday night with his friends and get sloppy drunk to stay out all hours of the night, and he did this for 3 years, and this was perfectly acceptable to you, and you allowed him to do it.

Then suddenly one Saturday night you didn't like it, and you decided that he should be spending more time with you, and so he got in trouble with you for doing it.

You do realize that you'd be wrong for yelling at him, because he only did according to what you established was acceptable withing the terms of relationship?



Like with this woman .... he was led to believe for 3 years that it was acceptable to her for him to come to her only when he is in need .. because that is apart of the established terms that she set from the first time he did it, and she didn't say "no"

Posted by ellessque

Posted by P-Angel

Posted by ellessque
"I'm beginning to see the real issue here .. if with every thread, you think it's about you, then naturally you're going to view every situation subjectively enough to answer that way."

You are absolutely correct. I've never denied that. Every single thread is about me. This is my world. Just like when you log on....it's yours.

That's the beauty of message boards.

Actually, that is false .. I never (rarely) put myself in anothers situation to measure it according to how I would feel because how I would feel is irrelevant because we aren't talking about me .. we are talking about the person with the problem.

semantics.

at the end of the day we are all the same, just put together a little differently.

so you can not sit there and honestly say you do not put yourself in anothers situation in one way or another.

that is a bold-faced lie.

click to expand

No, I don't. I may recall an experience I had that was similar, we all have had similar experiences in some fashion .. but, I don't answer the person as if I'm sitting there living it.

I've seen often (more than often), when a person is in here telling their story, responsers begin to talk about themselves and what they are currently going throught, to finally get to a conclusion about the person who started the thread to make an assessment that is directly related to themselves and not the OP.

I never do that. Of course, I can relate to what a person is saying .... but, I'm not going to tell a woman that her man is a cheater, based on me believing mine might be.

That's absurd .. because it's not about my situation, it's about their situation, and however I feel, or whatever has happened in my life isn't relevant.

Perhaps, LS ... but, it becomes apparant that she no longer takes responsibility, and instead takes the position of being the victim

Posted by lostheart
This seems to be the theam with these men. They take goodlooking smart women and find their inner weakness and exploit it for thier own gain.

I attracted him into my life and he found my weakness and used it against me. Aqua was right. That is F-ED UP!!!!!!!!

Because it's NOT a theme with these men ... it's a theme with her

A narcissist is someone who is in love with themselves to the point of struggling to find happiness in anybody else.

I got the pity.


Most every time a thread is even made in here it's about wanting sympathy for making bad decisions.

Question to you Elle:


Do you think that kstarks didn't hear me?

Nevermind, don't answer that because after further reading, I see that she couldn't comprehend comparisons due to lower brain functions.

Narcissism is the personality trait of egotism, vanity, conceit, or simple selfishness. Applied to a social group, it is sometimes used to denote elitism or an indifference to the plight of others.

The name "narcissism" was coined by Freud after Narcissus who in Greek myth was a pathologically self-absorbed young man who fell in love with his own reflection in a pool. Freud believed that some narcissism is an essential part of all of us from birth.[1] Andrew P. Morrison claims that, in adults, a reasonable amount of healthy narcissism allows the individual's perception of his needs to be balanced in relation to others.[2] In Spanish, and specially in Spain, where psychoanalysis is not used in public health, the word "narcissism" has a different meaning, i.e., "overindulgence at considering one's faculties or acts".[3] Thus, the term "healthy narcissism" is replaced by "healthy self-love".[4]

Some experts believe a disproportionate number of pathological narcissists are at work in the most influential reaches of society such as medicine, finance and politics.[5]

According to humanistic psychology, pathological narcissism is a symptom of low self-esteem





That's wiki ^^^ ... according to Freud we all are narcisstic to some degree because without having this we wouldn't love ourselves enough to want to succeed or be happy. So, if you told your mother she was one, you would be right.

Hi lostheart, hi all-- I cannot believe I am posting here again but I really want to say something to everybody...
(BTW this is prettymoonlight not nickiedancer)

Ok, first off when a person deal with a trauma of any kind and a break-up is a trauma they start to re-evealuate their life. They start to dig deep and look-- I know I did anyway.

You start to experience a whirlwind of emotions. You are angry one minute, sad the next, hurt the next... your feelings bounce off the walls. She is a Scorpio and like me a Cancer she is filled with many more deep emotions than... say... a Taurus (no offense to any Taurus people).

When I went through the situation with the narcissist I knew I felt exactly as she does now. I needed his valadation. I also came from an abusive home.

I dont know if she is an interverted narcissist.

What she needs to do is make a choice "Get busy living or get busy dying".

Lostheart, you will only get to take this ride once (aka live your life). It is obvious that NO MATTER WHO IS AT FAULT your guy is broken.

The question you have to ask yourself is this: Do you want to pine and possibly get back together (but just know you get what you get so dont be suprised when it happens again) with this guy or take a chance with a new one. Nobody here can answer that except you.

As for feeling better-- hunni that's all up to you. Time (and meeting somebody else always helps). NOTHING ELSE. TIME. Accept that and you will be fine-- IN TIME.


As for Ellesque- You asked a question as to why she likes the darkside. I cant answer for her but I can for me so I hope this helps you. I like the thought that I am special and unique to nobody but him. I like to thin that I am the exception. I like the comfort of the dark side. I know happy is normal, but I feel "safe" in the dark.

And I agree with who is the judge of what is right and wrong. there is a movie I love called "The Secratary" with James Spader. Who's to say their love is abnormal. It works for them.

I want to be engulfed by my man... I like to be devoted to him... I feel comfort in submitting to him... That is how I know how to show my love.

Hope that helps.

I don't trust happy ..lol.. I'm suspicious of it. When I see overly happy couples..lol.. I always think "what goes on behind closed doors?"

Have a nice day ellesque

Posted by ellessque

Posted by P-Angel
Everybody here does realize that this man did nothing wrong, don't you?

I do.

But you'll have to hang tiki by her toe nails before she'll agree to that.

click to expand

LOL@Elle...I'm lost

Are we saying the guy in losthearts thread did nothing wrong?

I'm seeing P talk about some other thread that I have nothing to do with were some leo chick was in relationship with a guy who cheats...I'm confused

But I didn't label losthearts guy...Lostheart called him a Narcissist and I encouraged her to not label him in N if he hasn't been diagnosed.

As for doing something wrong, I dunno, all depends

I'm curious....Just b/c some of you believe/feel that you are happy dwelling in the darkside with a man why do you assume lostheart is happy there too? She clearly isn't happy and I noticed Elle and moonlight wasn't happy there either so whose lying because if any of you were completely happy with being in that dark happy place why did you get out?

I feel there is a bit of self deception going on with this whole I love the darkside thing. Women who love the darkside stay in it no matter how terrible so clearly some of you have limits in how much of the darkness your going to permit yourself to dwell in...Is that the case?

And we can't really look at the movie Secretary and compare that kind of happiness to your situations...She got her happy ending but that's not realistic, most women will not get a happy ending in a masochistic relationship.

This coming from a light dweller, I love the light and I live in it daily...That's why I said I'm curious, I'm sincere when I ask for an explanation.

Actually I can and I have, that doesn't mean I haven't come across a few dark souls b/c I have, I avoid living in darkness as much as possible, I don't trust it and I don't particularly care for the people that dwell there on a regular basis.

Arrogant call it what you want lol...I don't care for the darkside, I respect it but anyone who says I love to live in the dark got some serious issues, it's so much better on the other side that's just my opinion and I'm sticking to it. I'm not going to debate what side is better but for me the light is better. There are many light dwellers in the world and we all cast shadows, we just don't dwell in darkness, nor gravitate towards it, it's something we shift away from but were clear it exist and sometimes we gotta walk through the darkness to help a few souls but we always remember who we are.

Posted by ellessque
we leave being happy in the dark because everyone tells us we aren't really happy there. so we go to find "happy"

only to find out when we leave the dark....we feel nothing.

nothing. nada. zip. pure aloofness.

i'm dangerous when i've reached the point of aloof. i can hurt people.

not physically, so don't lock your car doors. i just become extremely unemotional.

i like happy better. even if it isn't defined as someone elses happy.

That's playing with fire and being stubborn don't you think Elle? Even a child know there isn't any happiness in the darkness, I guess it's just something a person has to succumb to on her own, the understanding of what's on that side on her own.

Most of us have lived in darkness through our parents or a parent or someone close to us as children/teens, there is no way in hell anyone can convince me there is happiness in hell, living in hell and darkness with a man. It's miserable so maybe some women are just naturally miserable and are drawn to miserable men and I can't imagine a woman have good healthy self esteem living in that darkness, they call it darkness for a reason and ain't nothing good coming out of that...Or am I way off?

Posted by ellessque
why do you equate darkness with hell?

because you don't like it?

i don't like eggplant but i don't label everyone who eats it as evil.

You know we could actually debate this but I see that it would be futile for you and I to go in that direction, we have 2 different ideas about what is happiness and were happiness resides for ourselves of course I would never be able to comprehend how anyone would feel happy being dark, living in darkness not only by themselves but with another human being and frankly wouldn't want to know nor understand how one could be happy living in the dark, clearly the opposing factors between light and dark put us fundamentally at odds with one another so I will say this if your happy in darkness, if you really feel and believe that is were your happiness resides then be there because that's were you belong and if you see nothing wrong with it then so be it and now I fully grasp the understanding of why you encourage women to live in the dark because your a dark person, makes sense.

Posted by ellessque
serious issues defined by who?

an aqua, gem or libra (non cusp) who likes the light?

it seems to be a theme with scorpio, maybe all water signs.

doesn't mean we have issues. just means we are different from you.

i think the fire signs can dig it. they might not want to stay there with us but they definately will visit for awhile.

earth? depends. i'm not sure about those creatures yet.

Yes you/they (some water signs) are different than most...I don't dig darkness

Posted by ellessque
wow. tiki totally understood me. thanks! 🙂

First time for everything

your welcome

(from prettymoonlight)
Ok, I am going to have to open up an account again at the rate I am going but I can't stop myself!

I don't know about lostheart or ellesique but I do know about me.

When I say dark side I mean I like a man who is a bit of a dick. Not to me-- but to everybody else. It makes me feel that much more special when he gives his attention to me.

I don't like "happy" people because I find myself to be a very difficult person. A happy person would (and do) lose their minds with me. I dont mean to but I drive them crazy. "dark" people are as screwed up as I am. I will tolerate their "crap" to a certain point (not physical abuse) because I know I dish it out myself sometimes.

I need a man who can take me-- moods and all. One who will be mine no matter what. One who understands that some days I am insecure, some days I want to be left alone, some days I want to be the center of attention, some days I dont.

Happy people can't deal with me.

This is why I will take a man who has a "dark" side as I have one too. I'll give him TONS AND TONS OF SLACK. I will do this because deep inside I know I am a total nut at times to deal with.

For me it's a give and take. I get hurt when he hurts me so much-- and then is not sorry. I will tolerate a lot as long as I know when it's all over the person is sorry. For me an apology goes a very long way.

I can't deal with cheating, but a nasty attitude, the pulling back & fourth, I can handle that.

It's the other women I cant deal with.

This is part of the reason I cant see the narcissist I know. He's too all over the place. He makes me feel like I am competition. I dont like competetion.

I dont even need a full blown relationship. I jus need to know that I am the one that has his heart and I am good. I will pledge myself to him in my heart (although I'll never tell him that ..lol..).

I can forgive almost anything. It's when I question my importance to the person in my life that I start to lose it for them. That is my explination of my darkness.

The loss of importance-- it kills me. I hate feeling insecure.

But yes, I need a man who can deal with all my shit I dish out, in return I'll take a lot of shit from him.

Hope that helps. Did I explain that ok Tiki33?

Piscesprincess- hi and thanks. You are so pretty BTW!

kstartks that song is perfect for the man I know. I wish I could sing because I would sing it to him...lol.. too bad I cant hold a note for my life!

(oh, I am still prettymoonlight)

I get what your saying prettymoonlight...I can't say I completely understand it just yet.

I'm trying so hard not to offend anyone and at the same time I have so much to say...But I'm not going to say too much about this "dark" topic, the little bit I will say is this....

Men that are dark by nature don't give a shit about love, nor do they care about loving any one particular woman, these men don't play by rules or boundaries, they do what they want with whom they wanna do it with, if he's truly a dark natured man well he's only going to give to get and in some cases he don't give he take, many dark hearted men will not apologize for being a dick.

It feels like the women who gravitate towards men with dark energy are confused because I see the expectation level with you moonlight is high, you expect a dark soul to love you and only you and per my understanding dark men feed off of energy and so after he sucks the energy out of you well he's off to find new targets, you could never be the only one, that's impossible.

Men that are dark rarely say I'm sorry and mean it, you expect him to give, you don't want him to cheat, you want him to be mean with everyone for the exception of you, you want to be the only woman he's sharing the dark with, to me it's unrealistic. A dark soul is a dark soul, he's going to be him (whatever that is) with you and with everyone else, if he's a sleazy lying cheating narcissistic son of a bitch then being with you isn't going to change that. To me that's fantasy land kind of thinking when women have certain expectations with dark souls b/c those type of people don't play by anyones rules but there own, they can be very clever at hiding that fact but they pretty much do what they wanna do and deal with the repercussions later if there are any.

If you want a dark men well fine but wouldn't it be in your best interest to let him cheat and lie and do whatever it is he wants to do? If you can't allow that then maybe you really don't want that kind of man, maybe you just think you do, maybe it's the fantasy fueling this attraction to dark men.

I get what your saying Elle...Still seems like a bunch fantasy la la land BS to me. I'm not going to piss on anyones parade but I'm not really buying it and maybe the men aren't buying into it either and that's why some of the women that come here are having a really hard time adjusting themselves with these dark men, most women can't stay with a dark man without compromising herself, her boundaries and standards and losing herself (the self she was before he showed up), women that mess around with these men inevitably end up getting out.

if i was single..i'd love to be with some of you nutty ass broads on here..i'll treat you like pieces of shit that you feel you are 🙂

naa but seriously, i ALWAYS thought that a woman never really wanted a man that was "nice"..i got a real fukked up side to me and my girl gets to see it from time to time, but i think she needs that..and so far so good! we been together for 6 yrs now..

so i guess the key to a healthy, long lasting relationship is treating your spouse like shit sometimes,lol..you gotta do it! and also, the person thats getting treated like shyt CAN'T be just like you..they have to be the "victim" in the relationship for it to work..

and what i mean by treating'em like shit is knowing how to hurt'em without being physical..and since most women are unstable, emotional creatures, you gotta know how and when to touch the soul with those unbridled words of pain..and it has to be some TRUTH sprinkled in those scathing remarks..gotta make'em cry sometimes is what i say..

ya'll can deny it all you want, but the fact of the matter is..ALL YOU WOMEN WANT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT SOMETHING..nothing can be 100% perfect for you, it can't even be 90% ..because if it is..then..you wouldn't want it, or you would take advantage of it and become a narc yourself..you need fucked up stuff to happen to you because YOU'RE fucked up mentally..ALL OF YOU! every last one of you beastesses!!

now excuse me while i go clog my girlfriends throat with my penis

Piscesprincess:I feel pretty much exactly the same way. Plus I've never really been attracted to guys who are 'too good' or 'too nice', but I've never been attracted to complete 'bad boy' types either.. but always to guys with some darkness to them or with a hard childhood or some kind of mystery to them."

Ellesque:It's not "bad" boys. It's men with a dark nature. All of the men that I've been attracted to with that nature weren't cheaters or abusers....they were just rough around the edges with emotions. kind of like me. i am hard to handle. i'm a chameleon with my emotions sometimes, in private i can be.....mouthy, i can be rude, sarcastic...i need someone secure in themselves enough to handle that. in public i have a different persona so they have to "merge" with me.

i want to be submissive in private and the powerhouse independent woman in public. you need a confident man for that, someone very secure with themselves. for me, i find that in the darker natured men.....they are not intimidated or afraid.

Tiki33:Still seems like a bunch fantasy la la land BS to me. I'm not going to piss on anyones parade but I'm not really buying it and maybe the men aren't buying into it either and that's why some of the women that come here are having a really hard time adjusting themselves with these dark men, most women can't stay with a dark man without compromising herself, her boundaries and standards and losing herself (the self she was before he showed up), women that mess around with these men inevitably end up getting out.

Tiki33- No, it's real. When I see a guy that is a total dick to everybody-- I have a way about me. I turn on the charm-- to just him. I stare a couple of seconds extra. I don't complain if he askes for something, I'll make jokes with him-- I eventually-- win his eye (for me I consider this a victory!). Now, he'll treat everybody around him still like shit-- but to me, I am the exception-- I love that. (another victory).

Now I start to date this man and we spend time together and he opens up to me-- tells me things about himself, private things-- I can FEEL his honesty, his vulnerability-- look out, I'm in love.

Now, I get in my pissy shitty moods from time to time and he holds his own. Stands up to me, calls me out on my crap-- he gets in his moods-- I give him his space-- let him deal with his crap-- this is all ok with me. He can slam a door, be a big baby, throw a tantrum, I'm ok with it all-- because in the end I know--

he is mine. I dont care about anything because with him behind me I can do anything.

It's when the guy-- like the narcissist I delt with did-- makes me doubt myself, my worth. Makes me think I'm not so great-- he projects his own flaws onto me-- and I fall for it-- then checkmate. He wins-- or loses depending how you look at it. I shut down. Like how I was when you helped me. I was closed,distroyed, put a fork in me I was done.

All I want is a man I can give my soul to-- and I mean this, actually give my soul to.

Oh, it's prettymoonlight again ..lol.. nickydancer says "hi" ..lol.. I have to make another email account up to get a new DXP account ..lol.. this is so much easier (I'm cheating).



As for Damen- Ummmm yes, if things were perfect 100% of the time-- I would get bored. I need some drama here and there, thus is why I need a dark guy. I also need to see that vunerability in my man to make me feel special BUT it cant be for everybody-- only me-- and if I do see it from time to time... and if I do feel special-- yeah, as sick as it sounds-- then... hey, I like to have my air cut off-- oh, and I like him to pull my hair back while he's doing it!
:-p

a gooooood man is hard to find-- or rather a man I want is hard to find.

You know why I call women like you addicts? Because you romanticize bad men. It doesn't matter how bad he treats others which is a reflection of how eventually he's going to treat you, it doesn't matter that he literally almost put you in a mental ward, all your stuck on is the romance of being with a dark person, Once these dark souls get every last drop of energy out of the relationship and out of you, you can best believe he's going to devalue and discard you in some way and IF YOUR LUCKY he will find a new target and if your not lucky he won't let go, he will just pull a womans strings because it's fun, matters that she's in emotional agony.

I call it fantasy la la land thinking b/c it's like the brain is only attaching itself to the beginning when everything is perfect, your brain is high on oxytocin (so your bonding to him and he's not bonding to you) and your living in heavenly bliss and your brain isn't really placing any importance on reality nor is she clearly able to grasp the end were she's being humiliated or devalued and discarded or played with mercilessly. Interesting stuff

A good book/ebook that I actually bought online about 2 years ago may explain this dynamics of what you and others are describing

Why Women Love Psychopaths by Sandra L. Brown http://www.womenwholovepsychopaths.com/

you can read the reviews on amazon.com interesting reviews as well...

It's pathological love relationships...It's dangerous