I'm thinking that people don't fall in love ...

.. with people.


I'm thinking that they fall in love with the idea, the concept.


When you think about what you need in your life to feel loved, to feel valued and special in that loving way .. you actually have a set of criteria.

If you have criteria, then when you meet someone that you think you've fallen in love with, what has actually happened is that you've woven your principals around the other to fit in your needs, and then expect him/her to fulfill.


Just listen in here, this is proven time and again .... people are usually very unhappy in relationships because the other isn't treating them according to the idea they have in their heads about how they are expecting to be treated.


If you really loved that other person, REALLY .. then, only then, would I consider that unconditional love is possible.

Posted by P-Angel



I'm thinking that they fall in love with the idea, the concept.

Our society has set it up this way. The Cinderella Complex. Some Knight riding up on his horse (porsche) sweeping them away to this fairytale land of no problems, boat loads of kids and puppy dog tails. I don't buy into it, and I don't think I ever have, even at a young age. To your point, a lot of people don't allow themselves to be happy, because they are constantly comparing themselves to their friends, family members, commercials, television, etc. "Becky's husband just got her a 5 carat rock for their engagement, he must realllly love her. Mark only got me a 3 carat ring, he doesn't love me as much as Becky's husband loves her." I could go on, but I think I'll throw up! Love isn't these DeBeers commercials, or Hallmark card commercials (in my opinion), love is what we make of it, and it's not some crap being shoved down our throats by society. The way somebody may love me may not adhere to society's standards, but as long as I feel loved, appreciated and respected, that's all that matters to me.

.. with people.

I'm thinking that they fall in love with the idea, the concept.

I think this too... we carry around a lot of bias about everything and anything so we just extend it to the love concept.

Seriously? Yes people don't know how to love or be loved in many cases, but that doesn't mean there is no possibility for love beyond falling for the idea that love exists.

Love is not superficial. Love is pure and very blind to what is put out there in our consumer society.

If you can't love and be loved and want to give up on such grand aspects of life, so be it. Doesn't make it not real.

Maybe love is beautiful and rare because it eludes our negative, greedy selves that we seem to cherish more these days.

Anyway, I call bullshit.

Anyway, I call bullshit.


hahahaha

Love is being completely yourself with someone. And allowing them to be the same.
I absolutely believe in love. Slow it down, base it on someone being your friend as well as lover.

P-Angel - I completely agree with this. In fact, I think I was like this. Caused me to be in realtionships that I knew were not right for me. Still struggle with this from time to time.

P.S. I'm baaaccckkk! 🙂

Posted by Awake
I dont agree with any of this..for the most part.

Take a look at Romeo in the tale of star crossed lovers. Someone in love with the idea of love until guess what, along comes Juliet to drop him on his head...we all know how that story ended.

Take a look at couples that have 50+ year marriages and still going strong...they love the idea of love..even at this point?

What about couples that have risked their own lives for their partner's? The 120lb woman lifting a burning car off her husband?

Helen of Troy..thousands dead at the feet of love.

I think the real issue is, people rarely, if ever find 'love' in what it should be..just some watered down version of arguements and feeling constrained. Im not some silly romantic, I just simply think that becuase the majority fucked up in their selection process...does not make their relationships the standard on what 'love' truly is. IMO

c/s. She makes a good point I find some people like that, but then again if thats all you see or experience it's easy to say real love doesn't exist. I have to say it does.

Posted by natural25
P-Angel - I completely agree with this. In fact, I think I was like this. Caused me to be in realtionships that I knew were not right for me. Still struggle with this from time to time.

P.S. I'm baaaccckkk! 🙂

Welcome back!

Thanks Amandus!!! 🙂

After my first love dismantled my heart, I became disillusioned with regard to the prospects of unconditional love. For me, relationships from that point were either born out of lust or contractual obligations...two parties agreeing to certain terms with the ability to amend the contract as needed. I therefore stopped believing that I would ever be the recipient of unconditional love, not that I was incapable of rendering it...just that I didn't feel I could trust someone else's ability to do the same.

Recently I've met someone who has a simplicity and honesty about him which has thrown me for a loop. I find my practical taurean nature softening a bit and the walls I have built appear to be on shaky ground. What I feel right now isn't love, lust or contractual. Its that pure emotion that causes one to openly walk/run forward with heart in hand. In essence, I don't fear what he is or what he is not.

I think love can only bloom were it is given freely and without precondition. Unfortunately as we get older this becomes a near impossibility but maybe every once and a while you get lucky and meet someone who yearns to be open and vulnerable at the same time that you are in that exact same space. If you two are lucky, love has the potential to plant its seeds and grow.

So I agree with the OP that real love is not the norm...the divorce rate reflects that BUT real love is indeed possible.

^ I like this very much tubby. 🙂

Posted by tubbyscubby
Unfortunately as we get older this becomes a near impossibility but maybe every once and a while you get lucky and meet someone who yearns to be open and vulnerable at the same time that you are in that exact same space.

Hmmm...food for thought. I wish I could believe that in my heart, but I am a cynical person (in my own personal relationships) but I always believe in love for others 🙂 Rock on Tubby and good luck with your crush!

VERY well put Tubby.

Thanks ladies.

USC based on our common sun and venus I get what you're saying far more than you realize so trust me, this guy threw me for a loop. It's VERY early but I honestly haven't found anything wrong with him yet. I think with most guys there was something in the beginning that I chose to ignore or allowed myself to feel/rationalize my way through. Right now I can honestly say I'm ignoring nothing and that scares the shit out of me.

I realized earlier today that in matters of the heart, my fear isn't failure, it's success. Up until this moment I never had to worry about success and maybe that's why I too saw "love" as something for other chicks who are so easily jaded? All I know is, I really like the way this man approaches life and I'm definitely feel a yin-yang. It's not about his being the same. Seriously, what do you do when even your differences are compatible? Yeah I know! Whaaaaat!?

Relax, and enjoy the ride. 🙂

Posted by tubbyscubby
Seriously, what do you do when even your differences are compatible? Yeah I know! Whaaaaat!?

Do the damn thing!

Let's just hope you are an alien ..... because if you were human then you would become blind the moment feelings arised.

Lol

Feelings? I've heard humans speak of them but what exactly are they? 😛

And I think that's y this encounter has been such a wake up call. I'm not naively putting on blinders nor do I feel the need to. Like fresh air. No expectations need be set. Just being who we are is working out just fine. Trippy!

tubby - that actually sounds AWESOME! What a great way to start a relationship!

I have such screwy logic when it comes to relationships that I try to combat with all my might. I am the all in fall head over heels type. Typically. Not so much anymore. But it has taken a lot for me to change the way that I look at relationships, expectations and "love".

I know riiite?

Definitely a first. He seriously scares the poop outta me...in a good way.

Posted by tubbyscubby
After my first love dismantled my heart, I became disillusioned with regard to the prospects of unconditional love. For me, relationships from that point were either born out of lust or contractual obligations...two parties agreeing to certain terms with the ability to amend the contract as needed. I therefore stopped believing that I would ever be the recipient of unconditional love, not that I was incapable of rendering it...just that I didn't feel I could trust someone else's ability to do the same.

Recently I've met someone who has a simplicity and honesty about him which has thrown me for a loop. I find my practical taurean nature softening a bit and the walls I have built appear to be on shaky ground. What I feel right now isn't love, lust or contractual. Its that pure emotion that causes one to openly walk/run forward with heart in hand. In essence, I don't fear what he is or what he is not.

I think love can only bloom were it is given freely and without precondition. Unfortunately as we get older this becomes a near impossibility but maybe every once and a while you get lucky and meet someone who yearns to be open and vulnerable at the same time that you are in that exact same space. If you two are lucky, love has the potential to plant its seeds and grow.

So I agree with the OP that real love is not the norm...the divorce rate reflects that BUT real love is indeed possible.

Thats beautiful.

You are an amazing person Kaleidescorp.

"Whenever we are getting to know someone, there are gaping holes in our knowledge. If we like the person we invariably smooth over the current gaps in our knowledge with assumptions that we don't realize are significantly better than reality. We end up creating in our minds a part-real, part-fantasy hybrid and it is this, not the real person, that we fall —in love?? with. What starry-eyed lover fantasizes about the man of her dreams burping, snoring and leaving his smelly socks in the bathroom? Who daydreams about that sexy voice being used to hurl abuse in a temper tantrum? Who guesses that the person who heartily agreed on every matter so far discussed would dogmatically disagree on matters not yet explored? Who focuses on the time when that gorgeous figure sags and that impressive body is smashed by crippling disease?

Reality gradually closes in. The fairy tale fizzles. Our dilemma, however, is that once we've had a whiff of that euphoric high mistakenly called —love,?? we usually keep hankering for it. The temporary delusion that we have found Mr/Miss Perfect is perhaps the most addictive thing on earth. Merely imagining what it would be like to find this mythical being can create such ecstasy that we are in danger of panting after that elusive feeling for the rest of our lives; vainly imagining that the person who can permanently give us the unsustainable high actually exists somewhere in the real world. Once married, we continue our quest for the perfect partner by trying to manipulate our partner into this fanciful creature, and when we finally lose hope of this working, we consider looking further afield."


-From, http://net-burst.net/help/lover.htm>True Love

Posted by Amandus
"Whenever we are getting to know someone, there are gaping holes in our knowledge. If we like the person we invariably smooth over the current gaps in our knowledge with assumptions that we don't realize are significantly better than reality. We end up creating in our minds a part-real, part-fantasy hybrid and it is this, not the real person, that we fall —in love?? with. What starry-eyed lover fantasizes about the man of her dreams burping, snoring and leaving his smelly socks in the bathroom? Who daydreams about that sexy voice being used to hurl abuse in a temper tantrum? Who guesses that the person who heartily agreed on every matter so far discussed would dogmatically disagree on matters not yet explored? Who focuses on the time when that gorgeous figure sags and that impressive body is smashed by crippling disease?

as to "who asks these questions," the answer is...me.

this is generally how i've operated since i got my heart ripped in pieces. it's actually what got me through the whole ordeal. i took time to honestly evaluate him/us and it dawned on me, i wouldn't have truly been happy and neither would he be. imagine my surprise when i acknowledged that i was in part to blame? that i was, in my youth, controlling, manipulative and selfish in love?

i think the passage assumes that one continues to chase the fairytale indefinitely and that people do not learn from their mistakes.

i think people are capable of continuing a relationship knowing that the fairytale has long been shattered and in those instances, i think it's less about the story and more about what's really going on. maybe they don't want to be alone? maybe the sex is just that good? maybe he/she has money? regardless, in those instances it's less about the white horse and damsel in distress. there's a cost-benefit analysis that makes some people stay that has nothing to do with a fairy tale. i.e., i knew the leo and i would never marry. in fact, i stopped believing that was possible after year one. where i acknowledged the reality, his sex was was the most amazing thing on the planet, i knew its mesmerizing hold over and yet, i willing rode that wee till the proverbial wheels fell off.

Heheheheee Jase, I count on the other person to belch, leave socks about, snore, and even fart. Oh dear, a real person.

To make a decision in life to stay with a person is similar to making a decision to stay with your job .. you wiegh the options, decide what is beneficial to you .. and go with it.


That has nothing to do with the subject matter of this topic.

I'm not surprised the point flew over your head.



Again, this topic is about falling in love with a concept .. it's not about making mature decisions about what is worthy of love.

for me its a chemical love......the chemistry thats between me and the guys i get with is intense and im on a high for a year and then it fizzles out and i have a really bad come down but nothing a xanax wont fix......well actually it wont fix it just another relationship i guess.

I think i need to go to rehab...

actually I have never been in a relationship where there was no drugs involved.......thats probably why my relationships only lasted a year....go figures

and no i dont need to go to rehab just a relationship rehab.

but theres drugs going on in ur head constantly when someone cuddles you your brain releases endorphins....... you see someone theyre angles and measurements please your eyes. you smell someone your attracted to theyre pheramones depending on your sexuality your hormones react with your partners.......sex binds it all its the act of love making for me the whole two becomes one thingy then u fall asleep together and dream about each other.........when we first started to sleep together we had dreams of us fighting and we didnt know why? I would wake up feeling really sad say i had a bad dream and then 2 nights later hes have a dream aswell about a fight really weird.....is this some sort of chemical foresight thing going on?...intelligent chemistry heheh

uhm....men are disgusting creatures.

gays and lesbians are interesting studies when it comes to human relations. talk to gay men about "love" and you'll find that what it almost always boils down to is sex. guaranteed that after an hour conversation about their SO you will have learned more about their sex life than the individual.

thus for men, gay or straight, what it seems to boil down to is their dick. maybe that's why men in jail who engage in sexual relations do so solely to bust a nut where women prisoners generally share more personal aspects of their lives with their female partners?

point being, men are monkeys with human linguistics and it's no wonder that women have trouble relating to them.

Men shag in prison due to testosterone build up. its a thing they do to releive stress or anger otherwise they bash people and rampage.....women have estrogen which makes them get theyre period and have babies and go on emotional rampages...yes were men and women but were still human and yet we all seem to come from different planets and have different attributes....after visiting this messageboard finding a a guy that i can have a meaning-full relationship should be easy

good bye chemical relationship hello astrologically compatable relationship......errrm i think

that offered nothing.

dude, you're weird but kudos to you for owning it.

Posted by Amandus

Posted by CapGal

Young heart. By the time you get to my age you will realize that there is infatuation...as outlined above and REAL love....when you accept someone faults and all...even expecting the unexpected...like a fart that actually stinks

I already know. I posted the passage and the link because its something to ponder about.

Posted by venusianbull
Heheheheee Jase, I count on the other person to belch, leave socks about, snore, and even fart. Oh dear, a real person.

Yeaaaaa Its actually quite romantic innit?

Who are you talking to CapGal?

I just went through trains of thought, and everybody seems to be conversing with someone except for you.



In order for a person to fall in love with another and it actually be with the person and not the idea of it .. an unconditional love would have to exist, and unconditional love doesn't exist. It would be impossible for it to exist.


If you loved a person unconditionally then you would expect for them to regard you free from error, harm and/or emotional injury completely free from judgement .. and that is an expection.

And expection is a condition.

Posted by venusianbull
Love is being completely yourself with someone. And allowing them to be the same.
I absolutely believe in love. Slow it down, base it on someone being your friend as well as lover.

But, people don't do that .. in theory it sounds nice, in reality, it doesn't happen, maybe because it cannot = a concept.

When two people, of any relation ... you, as well as them HAVE to treat them a certain way. When you are with another person, you have an expectatation of how they are suppose to treat you, and if they don't treat you according to YOUR standards, then it will be deemed inappropriate ... yet, they could be being totally themselves.

I have questioned before about social acceptance, who sets these boundaries, how can there even be boundaries ... answer = society at large sets the standards, which means they HAVE to behave within a certain criteria to be considered normal. That is dictating to another how they are suppose to be to be acceptable.

Same principal in relationship ..... a person has to be acceptable, and a part of this acceptance is behaving and treating you a certain way, which = they aren't allowed to be who they are, they are allowed to be what within the established guidelines, to be considered being who they are.

Another thing that must be a consideration when analyzing this ... people put thier best foot forward when trying to establish a relationship.

Let's be honest here .... when we are trying to make an impression of ourselves to a new person in our lives, they never see anything except our most positive and gorgeous attributes.

How many times have you had a new friend, partner, co-worker, etc who at first you thought was awesome, only later to find out this is not a good perosn?

We say ..... showing true colors


Ok, so, this would mean .. you never saw who this person really is, if their colors weren't true from when you formed your basis of their character. So, now what?

Now, you are automatically on guard because you think you might be decieved?

Didn't you also present yourself with false colors? Or, do you normally when trying to develop a relationship ..... chics: bitch, and dudes: stare at tits