Friends with benefits (Page 2)

Tell me about this "real love". I am curious. I don't believe in the popular version at all.

Actually, my FB relationship fits my definition of love better than my marriage did at it's best. I don't expect anything, I trust him totally, I don't mind if he does or doesn't call me at a particular time, because I know he will eventually and he always does. I don't sit there staring at the phone either. I am completely loyal as he is to me, without demanding anything of each other, totally unlike the selfish draining kind of love that I had in my marriage. Then, despite my wanting to believe that my husband knew and trusted me, I was pretty much in a prison. How many of you "in love" trust your mate totally, unquestioningly and unconditionally? Or how many are prepared to forgive any mistake that can be taken as a slight (such as being late or forgetting a meeting with them, or if they want to spend time with other people instead of you, or if they forget your birthday/anniversary or some other thing of minor consequence?) Or would you think they are inconsiderate and get mad? Do you think they are supposed to put you first above all else all the time? And are you or they capable of keeping up this charade every single day? Is this really love? How many times have I heard my friends whining "If he loved me, he would/n't ----------- (fill in the blank)." I like to think that you should treat your mate as least as well as you treat your friends. In other words, we tend to be much more forgiving and loyal and trusting to people that we don't "love", and we don't worry about whether they will still be friends if they don't pay you daily homage. I have always been baffled by this lack of respect for the one that we are supposed to have the most respect for.
So think about it, maybe I love my FB more because he is my friend first, than many people love their spouses and bf's and gf's.

I've had one experience that developed into attached feelings and ended in cheating.
For me, I have such a strong connection between sexual intimacy and emotional intimacy, that it's hard for me to not complicate an FB relationship with emotional attachment.
One night stands, despite how unappealing and unfulfilling (in my experience), work way better.

lol,yeah actually those stupid little things that drama queens do is why I agreed most of todays relationships were doomed to fail is because of that stupid stuff.You have to trust the person before you can really say you love them because then your just trying to control them.Sure jealousy may happen if there is a real reason for it being there but thats more of feeling decieved and lied to about how they feel about you if they cheat and sometimes mild jealousy at other times just shows the persons a little paranoid but they can get over the latter one the other ones still the biggest and only no no that I won't put up with being done.Alcohol or not because the underlining meaning comes out more fully when drug induced.

So okay I'll answer your questions from an in love POV:
What I expect is loyalty and respect so I can't really say I don't expect anything however,if I give it it should be returned no questions asked,thats the coupling 50/50 terms we have.We live together again though so there is an extent of physical stuff that has to be 50/50 too.Bills,household to do's,etc.If kids were involved of course then alot more would be involved but there isn so we don't worry about those things as much.Theres cash put away for kids but thats the only thing there is and actually don't feel strongly about so aren't trying to have kids yet.The kids thing falls into responsability which noone can really argue with without sounding stupid and self centered because that is unconditional and just abusive if it's not cared about.

Like mentioned the only way he'd lose my trust is if he did actually do something to lose it through cheating or trying to control me unreasonably and without a real reason.The forgiving thing all those examples are spoiled brats motives to get angry or maybe an excuse to break it off because they really don't want the relationship.I think we pretty much got a good discussion going about it and still think it's driven be false love that is just ass kissing is the reason so many people end relationships for those petty little reasons.

Confusing wants and needs is the basic version of what I think it is with those people-lust which doesn't always mean sexual lust either,they only want it to be there rather than finding any good,real reasons why they really want to be there.Basically you love someone and completely hate them at the same time so I think thats the point alot of those people are missing is that you take the good with the bad and not just the good parts.Cause if you really loved them you'd have to love all the bad things about them too even if you don't like it.So all in all I would end a good relationship over being cheated on or they aren't happy and wants to be elsewhere anymore.There is a little more than your friends though,thats still unconditional when it's real but theres a little more effort put into it over just being you and not giving on your own half as well,you basically do the happy things because you want to make them happy pretty much.

Kinda falls into if you have kids,they piss you off but you would never really be content with yourself if you gave up on them or stop associating with them over a stupid arguement.Actually you could not talk to them for years and if something serious happened to them you'd be full of it if you didn't care about thier well being.Thats what that type of true love is,it's unconditional which does include arguements and heatedness driven by the feelings but when it comes down to it all the bad stuff doesn't come anywhere near what you really feel.So yes technically you do love your friend more than those people really love thier SO but there is more to it that you'd basically just have to find the right person and experiance it to know first hand.At best from a somewhat,maybe get the point across of the feeling is it's kinda like a forest fire with the "real" problems in relationships,lots of choas,destruction,etc but

Yep, does to me, OFA.
I wanna know about this "bad stuff". And why would you feel you have to take it with the good when you can easily have all good if you don't live with each other. I don't get this joined at the hip mentality. If I don't hear from the FB in, say 2 or more weeks, I am just all the more happy when I do finally hear from him, and I have never been suspicious or distrustful. You may think I am a fool, but I think that is what love is, and it requires no daily proof or accountability for anything.

There isn't one as far as a joined at the hip senereo,he goes out with his friends,I actually prefer him to so I can get private time thats actually at home where relaxing can happen and I do the same thing with no problems.It isn't about proving anything to the other when both of you actually trust each other.

Honestly I what im thinking is your doubtful of love because of your crazy ex that wasn't really love,not much to it.

As far as the bad stuff goes thats learning each other and you aren't always going to agree on things 100% with any single,living person on earth so being completely content in any relationship is impossible and your going to have to adjust and think about if you are wrong once in awhile because it's impossible for any one person to be correct all the time.Otherwise thats unrealistic to think you can without becoming alone in your own lonely,grumpy,old age hermit ways.I don't want a slave boy who does everything I want or say to do and has the balls to stand up to me when im out of line which I do quite often.I have no problem admitting im human and have faults that need to be corrected and so does he so thats what is worked out in a form of growing,not as a couple but as the people we could be in a better form and not just for the relationships sake.Correct me if im wrong do you think you are incapable of being wrong,don't have your faults or issues that may need to be pointed out by someone who really knows you?Isn't that what friends do as well?Well someone you live with is going to know you alot more than any friend no matter how close unless it's an ex cause you don't tell them what you think about thier problems do you when it's bugging by having to listen to the whiny crap do you?Why do you think they don't do the same with you?

And haha the message board is targetting us again with the advertisements based on the topics again.I think that ones meant for you yetta not all dudes are like that,it's just about finding the right one that will treat you like a human being rather than a slave to his idea of control over you.

I think my point has been missed. I question the need to live with someone. Simple. I don't get it. Tiamat, you opened your comment by saying you like when he goes out, so you can have time to yourself. I have that all the time, and enjoy it immensely because I am not a cranky old hermit. I can go out whenever I want as well, without clearing it or discussing it with anyone.

Do I expect to have people agree with me 100% of the time? Of course not. That goes without saying. Do I need to live with someone to underline that reality. No, and I do try to see both sides of the coin.

Do I think I am always right all the time? Far from it, but I do get my faults pointed out be my closest friends and of course from mistakes at work. We all make those from time to time. Do I need a live-in monitor to do this for me? No, I think I am pretty aware of my flaws and work on them daily. And as human, I think I am allowed to make mistakes, and no one kicks me in the arse harder than I do.

Will I become alone and lonely in my old age? Why would I? I have no fear of that. I don't think that is a good reason to live with someone either. Statistically, and this is going to sound brutal but it is true, men have shorter life expectancies. So most of us will be alone in our old age anyway. At least I will be comfortable and used to it.

I got a kick out of the slave boy comment. I appreciate a man that has the balls to stand up to me. Yes, agreed. Do he have to reside in my house? No. I like it better that he have his own house. Don't be confused by thinking that I expect the only person I can live with is some compliant wussy, because I am too set in my ways to deal with anyone else. Nothing could be further from the truth. I admire an independent man. They are very rare, or at least I haven't met many.

To address your closing comment, I am being treated like a human being in the current set up, moreso than ever. I don't see where living with someone has anything to do with that, or love. So why would I even be looking for this elusive "right one"? And no, my ex is not crazy, we are still friends. I just do not want to live with anyone, I don't see the need. I am perfectly ok with that. I don't know what harm I am doing to bring forth such a strong reaction from people. And if people want to think that I am kidding myself or that I have had no experience of the "real thing", I will question whether they aren't kidding themselves as well, that what is commonly perceived as love is just mutually agreed upon emotional neediness. Most couldn't cope with loving someone that isn't around them all the time. They need that constant feedback to feel secure. I don't.

You missed the point too so I guess we're even on that one.I don't view it as a "need" to live with someone and have lived alone plenty of times it gets boring and dull.It's not a live in monitor,it's not neediness,not about feeling secure,Bl_ah,Bl_ah.Kinda like talking to a wall or having the TV as your only entertainment when your friends aren't around.Or what happens when all your little friends get in successful relationships and aren't going to have the time for you.I know very few old people who don't have kids that are very upset that they don't have specials weekends to have visiters in the grandchildren way.They ARE lonely so they take an instant likeing to any person that does come into contact with them,it's to make up for it even when these people are complete strangers.Logical or emotional doesn't matter,humans are social creatues so they ARE happier when with other people thats what it has to do with so NO it's not wrong to live with someone and there having to be a needy reason for it.The needs fall into resposablities that even single people do but more responsability and the only differance is your taking care of other people as well as yourself because you choose to.

The point in it is that you can be in love in the living with someone sense and treated
like a human being,getting to go out without restrictions or guidelines,not being a prisoner,etc. if it is with a person who actually trust you and respects you as a human being,the not wanting you to go out,monitoring,etc isn't being treated like one and is a control issue.Your allowed to make mistakes that where the "bad" and "working out" things fall under.Allowed to be independant and vice versa,etc. that is where the finding the right one came into play is no every tom,dick and harry isn't going to cut it for this or that jane but that also doesn't mean that jane going to have to be fake to find someone who will care about her or put up with the little annoyances she may do or have.Noones telling you to do anything,mmkay.But as far as that whole seeing the other side of the coin you aren't proving it just by the simple fact that it wasn't an issue with me up until my actually having a good tradintional type relationship and being content with it.

As stated I see your points to the extent that they are being given to the given situations but im not going to agree with you on being extreme about my own lovelife because of your reasons,again it isn't wrong to this either.Thinks about it,you're bragging and inflatting the reasons with the FB's situation about being fine,happy and things being a mutual agreement but now because it's the opposite of your version thats in the same reasons in a different form your disagreeing with it.I do what I do because I want and need to do it for me and only me for my reasons for being happy with someone who is a best friend who happens to be a lover that I live with soo.Thats the mentality I have,Im doing it to make me happy,it's what I want to and noone can convince me it's wrong,plain and simple again just different side of the coin.

This isn't a strong reaction from me,you asked questions and im was for once being polite again and answering them because why not??I could because I do have a personal experiance of it in mind.You should probably be asking one of the tradition junkies for those ones not me.From what I can say is the 60's were the 60's and we all know what happened in the sixties so some of the older people's traditions are probably based on fear of sex and aids statistics are still growing around the globe,thats probably what that stuff has to do with,call VGT or branh out to find out for sure...

Stealing branhs,vgt and dreamy eyes outtrance and tia's OUTZ.....

"Kinda like talking to a wall or having the TV as your only entertainment when your friends aren't around.Or what happens when all your little friends get in successful relationships and aren't going to have the time for you."

I write, paint and do my design work, or get on the net and fish around for stuff. I may be alone, but seldom lonely. Too much to do. I love my solitude.

I know very few old people who don't have kids that are very upset that they don't have specials weekends to have visiters in the grandchildren way.They ARE lonely so they take an instant likeing to any person that does come into contact with them,it's to make up for it even when these people are complete strangers

Kids are not born to keep you company, how selfish.
My friends kids love me, they ask when am I coming over, can they go over to see me, am I coming for dinner? etc... I enjoy them immensely. I hope that we can always have a continuing friendship, these kids and me.

As stated I see your points to the extent that they are being given to the given situations but im not going to agree with you on being extreme about my own lovelife because of your reasons,again it isn't wrong to this either.Thinks about it,you're bragging and inflatting the reasons with the FB's situation about being fine,happy and things being a mutual agreement but now because it's the opposite of your version thats in the same reasons in a different form your disagreeing with it

I am trying to decipher this sentence. Bragging? When? Where? About what?
This whole thing started with people crapping down my neck because I can be happy in a relationship that doesn't require a shared living space or a declared commitment.

I never judged anyone else's life style , just stated some observations that I have made. I never said that YOU personally couldn't be happy doing what you are doing, but rather I comment on how I have personally seen it play for myselr and MOST people I know.

I do what I do because I want and need to do it for me and only me for my reasons for being happy with someone who is a best friend who happens to be a lover that I live with soo.Thats the mentality I have,Im doing it to make me happy,it's what I want to and noone can convince me it's wrong,plain and simple again just different side of the coin.

Actually, you underline my point for me here Tia. You are basing your relationship on need. You say above that you need to live your life this way to make you happy. I am happy without these things that you need. I am not saying you are wrong, you know best what you need. I am simply saying that I do not need these things, and I do not feel like I am missing out simply because I can meet my needs for happiness perfectly well on my own. Neither of us are wrong. Fair enough?

I get uppity when people tell me that I don't know my own mind, or that I don't know what I am talking about when I don't agree with them. And I get very annoyed, especially when they think that I "need" or should "need" the same things they do or I must be in some kind of denial to not think so. Comments like "you just need to find the right one, then you will know" etc... are just a tad patronizing, don't you think? Like I was born yesterday? Please.

This isn't a strong reaction from me,you asked questions and im was for once being polite again and answering them because why not??I could because I do have a personal experiance of it in mind.You should probably be asking one of the tradition junkies for those ones not me.From what I can say is the 60's were the 60's and we all know what happened in the sixties so some of the older people's traditions are probably based on fear of sex and aids statistics are still growing around the globe,thats probably what that stuff has to do with,call VGT or branh out to find out for sure...

I said "a strong reaction from people" not naming you personally

The kids statement wasn't in there it was used as an example.That wasn't stated you have kids because you want to start your own family instead of borrowing other peoples familys,so yes it is greed and no matter what anyone says it will always be about greed on some level for planning on having kids.Besides a child whos not wanted is viewed as an accident way too often and should be seen as surprises not accidents anyways.Thats whats cruel when it comes to kids,they aren't stupid and know those things very well and thats why some of them turn into the so-called "problem children" right now is parents have them but sit them in front of TV sets and expect other people to be thier parents;teachers,preachers,babysitters,etc.Even your own reason for liking kids,you enjoy being around them so thats greed too,kids are kids they have that effect on people.It's new life,whats not to love and to have around?

As far the patronising thing goes it wasn't saying you need to find the right one,it's
stating that there are people who may change your mind in the future it wasn't a command,rule or anything,falling under the never say never rule.Cause you never know if you won't have someone change your mind in that department,I prefered to be alone too but changed my mind when the right person came along that inspired that change.It doesn't mean you also can't be happy without it there is just a possiblity,like the perfect,independant man thing that you think is rare may come along is all and the two will hit it off on alot on levels and end up being commited before you know it,it actually happens like that too.Basically you have no idea you wanted it until it happens,even the unexpected pregnacies can happen like that,ask cancerlady she knows that one first hand,she never thought about having kids until later and if she found the right person.Do whatever you want to.

As far as the need to be happy,sure maybe so but it has the same equality as to what I want to do as well.Stating I don't need someone is in the form as in im not going to act like it's the end of the world if it did end and isn't life threatening need for survival or anything.I don't need a ego booster,self esteem booster,prisoner,etc.I prefer having someone around for too many reasons to mention thats a mix of both logically and emotionally.For each need theres also a want involved so it can't be based on one and only one of the two it's hard to define by either in either viewing point of it.It's just there.


As far as the 60's thing goes,the generation of sex,drugs and rock-n-roll,is it ringing a bell now?That was the biggest time for outbreaks of std's,unwanted pregnacys,overdoses,etc.Those three things in excess is the 60's thing,they found out some really bad things through alot of casual sex in that era so of course a really big scare of those things caused some brisk judgements on it through fear of having sex due to you may die from it.Education wasn't available at all really about the risks like there is now.

So okay im really outz now,i lied.

Fair enough.