The Cancerian Landlord/Landlady (Page 2)

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tcta
@tcta
10 Years5,000+ Posts

Comments: 3706 · Posts: 7112 · Topics: 18
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by tcta


Precisely, all signs and people just need to be direct and communicate well. Once you break down those walls everyone gets along. Cannot live in a snowflake world!

Respect that they have their own opinions and are different, if you cannot come to an amiable conclusion in your stifling dilemma, then move on.

At least the op is now realising that, hope she finds a better home soon.


lol I like that and will use that "snowflake world" lol

what you said is so true - I appreciate directness and I don't know what to do with in-directness

yes we are all different and have our own opinions and preferences and that in itself is where the beauty of this all comes into play - making it work between two very different people - compromising and understanding


Yup you can add that to your vocab ??

Difference is great and makes life interesting, especially if your bouncing off ideas
Thanks, could have used that when my ex was upset at my not putting the drain thingy back in the sink after I cleaned the sink (gee, there it was just sitting on the side of the sick all clean and spanky) - well I wasn't arguing about it he was just going off and so incredulous that this could possibly be happening in his world ... saying "what kind of a person doesn't put the drain back in the sink" - lol - I just looked at him because I was actually afraid he just lost his mind - and he just kept repeating it - he just could not get over that - lol - of all things in the world right lol





He'll probably laugh at it in hindsight, my bug bear is when women clog up the sink with their long hair. Like why? When I explain it that it annoys me they just stare at me blank, cannot understand why I'm so bothered.

We all have our nuisances ?
click to expand




lol see I totally understand that and if I clog a sink, I will fix it for the next person because I think about others

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Moonbutter
@Moonbutter
10 Years5,000+ Posts

Comments: 14 · Posts: 5192 · Topics: 94
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Cancers ARE PASSIVE-agressive.... And stupid...when it comes to the home, expect extreme behaviors, defensiveness....etc...they don't have the brains and professionaism to be normal.
Wow quite the generalization...I've experienced way worse behaviors from sags, Aries, Virgo, aquas. Etc. point is I think you should look at placements not the sign ?
But Cancers are like the 1st gear, there's a lot of good in them, but in the short term. They're not the sign of maturity, they often turn to the drink, or bitterness in their later years. They represent birth, and a young mother and her baby, there's all the mysteries of life in them, but they're not fit for the long haul, professional life etc...

Capricorns are like the 6th gear...?
click to expand

What a load of BS ?
Profile picture of Moonbutter
Moonbutter
@Moonbutter
10 Years5,000+ Posts

Comments: 14 · Posts: 5192 · Topics: 94
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Cancers ARE PASSIVE-agressive.... And stupid...when it comes to the home, expect extreme behaviors, defensiveness....etc...they don't have the brains and professionaism to be normal.
Only the moronic ones that are insecure and have no real power, not the ones that are sure of themselves. ?
Example of ones sure of themselves ?


This guy that the op is describing has serious issues hence the melodrama.

I currently work with loads at the moment for a few years now. They are all hilariously funny. Competent, sure of them themselves individually different with opinions. Have so many interesting pastimes and hobbies. Accomplished, they make a lot of money in their subject fields. They are in charge of their working hours. Have the healthy work life balance.

You cannot be around that many all the time and not see the mask drop, I would've seen it by now if they were passive aggressive. I'm really good at reading people.

Now I have met one Cancer boss who was a passive aggressive nightmare, lacks professionalism. I'm pretty sure she gave me IBS ? I'm not anymore. Everyday we had to walk on eggshells and to request annual leave we had to work out what kind of mood she's in.

I think she was an exception, I cannot have met over 12+ crabs and only find one neurotic mess and classify the rest as such.

Richard Branson maybe an example of crabs that don't really need to prove themselves, as he already came from money. To me he seems chilled AF then again I don't know him on a personal basis, so I could be wrong.

As for the childishness I never want to give that up! The eternally youthful despite how mentally mature I have to be ?
Well, that part is not the Cancer part, it's other stuff in their chart. Cancers are funny but moody. If they're consistently in control of their emotions and professional, then they're mostly some other sign(s).
Do you not think passive aggressiveness is reflected through communication? For example if the Cancer keeps undoing things you've changed at home or work space but doesn't have the balls to directly address it. Persistently moves things back to how they like it, like a OCD control freak?


No it's passive agressiveness in general.

Hey you're the one who started talking about perfect and mature Cancer people, you made me say "those traits are not typical".
Cancerians do need to go through that maturation process but that applies to the human race. All the negatives aspects of the sign everyone enquires about the signs are the immature nature, if they are old and miserable then it's their failures in life.

Good chat btw hehe
No l don't think you're grasping it, it's inherent to the sign that they "don't grow up", that they be moody and miserable in later years. If they can fight it, great, but that's not what we're talking about here.

Milk goes bad after a few hours, but a fine cheese will stay in a french cave for years.

In the same way, Cancers are better than everybody in their youth, and then they will tend to go bad.

Capricorns are already old when they're kids, but they remain steady and functional in their later years, and often attractive.
click to expand

Did you get that out of "Astrology for Dummies"? ??‍♀️?
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bricklemark
@bricklemark
10 Years5,000+ Posts

Comments: 76 · Posts: 6208 · Topics: 230
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Cancers ARE PASSIVE-agressive.... And stupid...when it comes to the home, expect extreme behaviors, defensiveness....etc...they don't have the brains and professionaism to be normal.
Only the moronic ones that are insecure and have no real power, not the ones that are sure of themselves. ?
Example of ones sure of themselves ?


This guy that the op is describing has serious issues hence the melodrama.

I currently work with loads at the moment for a few years now. They are all hilariously funny. Competent, sure of them themselves individually different with opinions. Have so many interesting pastimes and hobbies. Accomplished, they make a lot of money in their subject fields. They are in charge of their working hours. Have the healthy work life balance.

You cannot be around that many all the time and not see the mask drop, I would've seen it by now if they were passive aggressive. I'm really good at reading people.

Now I have met one Cancer boss who was a passive aggressive nightmare, lacks professionalism. I'm pretty sure she gave me IBS ? I'm not anymore. Everyday we had to walk on eggshells and to request annual leave we had to work out what kind of mood she's in.

I think she was an exception, I cannot have met over 12+ crabs and only find one neurotic mess and classify the rest as such.

Richard Branson maybe an example of crabs that don't really need to prove themselves, as he already came from money. To me he seems chilled AF then again I don't know him on a personal basis, so I could be wrong.

As for the childishness I never want to give that up! The eternally youthful despite how mentally mature I have to be ?
Well, that part is not the Cancer part, it's other stuff in their chart. Cancers are funny but moody. If they're consistently in control of their emotions and professional, then they're mostly some other sign(s).
Do you not think passive aggressiveness is reflected through communication? For example if the Cancer keeps undoing things you've changed at home or work space but doesn't have the balls to directly address it. Persistently moves things back to how they like it, like a OCD control freak?


No it's passive agressiveness in general.

Hey you're the one who started talking about perfect and mature Cancer people, you made me say "those traits are not typical".
Cancerians do need to go through that maturation process but that applies to the human race. All the negatives aspects of the sign everyone enquires about the signs are the immature nature, if they are old and miserable then it's their failures in life.

Good chat btw hehe
No l don't think you're grasping it, it's inherent to the sign that they "don't grow up", that they be moody and miserable in later years. If they can fight it, great, but that's not what we're talking about here.

Milk goes bad after a few hours, but a fine cheese will stay in a french cave for years.

In the same way, Cancers are better than everybody in their youth, and then they will tend to go bad.

Capricorns are already old when they're kids, but they remain steady and functional in their later years, and often attractive.


That's the thing with your analogy, you appreciate them when they are young. Wheareas I use to find them so irratatating in their youth, bratty and pouty. Ugh!

We just appreciate different spectrum. I do understand what you're saying just haven't experienced it in that order.

I guess I have to wait for the ones I know to get wrinkly and depressive failures to experience it otherwise I cannot agree.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

And yes Caps are very stable that tend to age backwards, don't know any older caps to truly judge. By going on celebrities I'd say Patrick Dempsey is a fine example.

click to expand

Well l never said depressive failures, l said boozers or bitter or passive agressive. Which in a sense is the adult version of being bratty. You see? We agree more than you think.

Yeah Kevin Costner and Mel Gibson ?
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bricklemark
@bricklemark
10 Years5,000+ Posts

Comments: 76 · Posts: 6208 · Topics: 230
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Cancers ARE PASSIVE-agressive.... And stupid...when it comes to the home, expect extreme behaviors, defensiveness....etc...they don't have the brains and professionaism to be normal.
Wow quite the generalization...I've experienced way worse behaviors from sags, Aries, Virgo, aquas. Etc. point is I think you should look at placements not the sign ?
But Cancers are like the 1st gear, there's a lot of good in them, but in the short term. They're not the sign of maturity, they often turn to the drink, or bitterness in their later years. They represent birth, and a young mother and her baby, there's all the mysteries of life in them, but they're not fit for the long haul, professional life etc...

Capricorns are like the 6th gear...?
What a load of BS ?
click to expand

No that's not bs. That's astrology 101. Right next to Cancer, what do we have, Gemini, the small, the minute, as opposed to Sagittarius the grand, the vast, the philosopher.

It COULD NOT BE CLOSER to the gear analogy ?

Are you a Cancer by any chance? Having teouble to come to terms with reality ? ? Jk

Also, you often see Cancers with great beauty and success in their later years, their other placements and their entourage can help them to succeed, they are a joy to be around, and a jewel, like Meryl Streep, or Pamela Anderson, they have a sort of purity that is fascinating. But that's the thing it can fade pretty badly, l know a 4x Cancer, from age 40 onward, his business, and drinking habit, and divorce, he just crashed and burned. It's like their light shines too bright, and then they fall, you know what l mean?
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Spidey~Sense
@SpidySense
8 Years

Comments: 0 · Posts: 58 · Topics: 0
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Cancers ARE PASSIVE-agressive.... And stupid...when it comes to the home, expect extreme behaviors, defensiveness....etc...they don't have the brains and professionaism to be normal.
Only the moronic ones that are insecure and have no real power, not the ones that are sure of themselves. ?
Example of ones sure of themselves ?


This guy that the op is describing has serious issues hence the melodrama.

I currently work with loads at the moment for a few years now. They are all hilariously funny. Competent, sure of them themselves individually different with opinions. Have so many interesting pastimes and hobbies. Accomplished, they make a lot of money in their subject fields. They are in charge of their working hours. Have the healthy work life balance.

You cannot be around that many all the time and not see the mask drop, I would've seen it by now if they were passive aggressive. I'm really good at reading people.

Now I have met one Cancer boss who was a passive aggressive nightmare, lacks professionalism. I'm pretty sure she gave me IBS ? I'm not anymore. Everyday we had to walk on eggshells and to request annual leave we had to work out what kind of mood she's in.

I think she was an exception, I cannot have met over 12+ crabs and only find one neurotic mess and classify the rest as such.

Richard Branson maybe an example of crabs that don't really need to prove themselves, as he already came from money. To me he seems chilled AF then again I don't know him on a personal basis, so I could be wrong.

As for the childishness I never want to give that up! The eternally youthful despite how mentally mature I have to be ?
Well, that part is not the Cancer part, it's other stuff in their chart. Cancers are funny but moody. If they're consistently in control of their emotions and professional, then they're mostly some other sign(s).
Do you not think passive aggressiveness is reflected through communication? For example if the Cancer keeps undoing things you've changed at home or work space but doesn't have the balls to directly address it. Persistently moves things back to how they like it, like a OCD control freak?


No it's passive agressiveness in general.

Hey you're the one who started talking about perfect and mature Cancer people, you made me say "those traits are not typical".
Cancerians do need to go through that maturation process but that applies to the human race. All the negatives aspects of the sign everyone enquires about the signs are the immature nature, if they are old and miserable then it's their failures in life.

Good chat btw hehe
No l don't think you're grasping it, it's inherent to the sign that they "don't grow up", that they be moody and miserable in later years. If they can fight it, great, but that's not what we're talking about here.

Milk goes bad after a few hours, but a fine cheese will stay in a french cave for years.

In the same way, Cancers are better than everybody in their youth, and then they will tend to go bad.

Capricorns are already old when they're kids, but they remain steady and functional in their later years, and often attractive.


That's the thing with your analogy, you appreciate them when they are young. Wheareas I use to find them so irratatating in their youth, bratty and pouty. Ugh!

We just appreciate different spectrum. I do understand what you're saying just haven't experienced it in that order.

I guess I have to wait for the ones I know to get wrinkly and depressive failures to experience it otherwise I cannot agree.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

And yes Caps are very stable that tend to age backwards, don't know any older caps to truly judge. By going on celebrities I'd say Patrick Dempsey is a fine example.


Well l never said depressive failures, l said boozers or bitter or passive agressive. Which in a sense is the adult version of being bratty. You see? We agree more than you think.

Yeah Kevin Costner and Mel Gibson ?
click to expand

It's all good ?

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Moonbutter
@Moonbutter
10 Years5,000+ Posts

Comments: 14 · Posts: 5192 · Topics: 94
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Cancers ARE PASSIVE-agressive.... And stupid...when it comes to the home, expect extreme behaviors, defensiveness....etc...they don't have the brains and professionaism to be normal.
Wow quite the generalization...I've experienced way worse behaviors from sags, Aries, Virgo, aquas. Etc. point is I think you should look at placements not the sign ?
But Cancers are like the 1st gear, there's a lot of good in them, but in the short term. They're not the sign of maturity, they often turn to the drink, or bitterness in their later years. They represent birth, and a young mother and her baby, there's all the mysteries of life in them, but they're not fit for the long haul, professional life etc...

Capricorns are like the 6th gear...?
What a load of BS ?
No that's not bs. That's astrology 101. Right next to Cancer, what do we have, Gemini, the small, the minute, as opposed to Sagittarius the grand, the vast, the philosopher.

It COULD NOT BE CLOSER to the gear analogy ?

Are you a Cancer by any chance? Having teouble to come to terms with reality ? ? Jk

Also, you often see Cancers with great beauty and success in their later years, their other placements and their entourage can help them to succeed, they are a joy to be around, and a jewel, like Meryl Streep, or Pamela Anderson, they have a sort of purity that is fascinating. But that's the thing it can fade pretty badly, l know a 4x Cancer, from age 40 onward, his business, and drinking habit, and divorce, he just crashed and burned. It's like their light shines too bright, and then they fall, you know what l mean?
click to expand

Isn't the ascent what a sign ascends to be in life? I don't believe about signs crashing and burning later in life. Moon has a lot to do with the personality as well...
Profile picture of bricklemark
bricklemark
@bricklemark
10 Years5,000+ Posts

Comments: 76 · Posts: 6208 · Topics: 230
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Cancers ARE PASSIVE-agressive.... And stupid...when it comes to the home, expect extreme behaviors, defensiveness....etc...they don't have the brains and professionaism to be normal.
Wow quite the generalization...I've experienced way worse behaviors from sags, Aries, Virgo, aquas. Etc. point is I think you should look at placements not the sign ?
But Cancers are like the 1st gear, there's a lot of good in them, but in the short term. They're not the sign of maturity, they often turn to the drink, or bitterness in their later years. They represent birth, and a young mother and her baby, there's all the mysteries of life in them, but they're not fit for the long haul, professional life etc...

Capricorns are like the 6th gear...?
What a load of BS ?
No that's not bs. That's astrology 101. Right next to Cancer, what do we have, Gemini, the small, the minute, as opposed to Sagittarius the grand, the vast, the philosopher.

It COULD NOT BE CLOSER to the gear analogy ?

Are you a Cancer by any chance? Having teouble to come to terms with reality ? ? Jk

Also, you often see Cancers with great beauty and success in their later years, their other placements and their entourage can help them to succeed, they are a joy to be around, and a jewel, like Meryl Streep, or Pamela Anderson, they have a sort of purity that is fascinating. But that's the thing it can fade pretty badly, l know a 4x Cancer, from age 40 onward, his business, and drinking habit, and divorce, he just crashed and burned. It's like their light shines too bright, and then they fall, you know what l mean?
Isn't the ascent what a sign ascends to be in life? I don't believe about signs crashing and burning later in life. Moon has a lot to do with the personality as well...
click to expand

Well yeah, with your Sag moon you have great aspirations and skills...and the opposing Gemini will give you the all-round vision, and Geminis do ok later in life anyway. They feel overwhelmed by kids but they get by. But l can see how my words don't really apply to you. You're a good mix, you definitely havent seen your best days, l don't think you'll "crash and burn". Remember l was talking about a 4x Cancer ?
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Spidey~Sense
@SpidySense
8 Years

Comments: 0 · Posts: 58 · Topics: 0
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Cancers ARE PASSIVE-agressive.... And stupid...when it comes to the home, expect extreme behaviors, defensiveness....etc...they don't have the brains and professionaism to be normal.
Wow quite the generalization...I've experienced way worse behaviors from sags, Aries, Virgo, aquas. Etc. point is I think you should look at placements not the sign ?
But Cancers are like the 1st gear, there's a lot of good in them, but in the short term. They're not the sign of maturity, they often turn to the drink, or bitterness in their later years. They represent birth, and a young mother and her baby, there's all the mysteries of life in them, but they're not fit for the long haul, professional life etc...

Capricorns are like the 6th gear...?
What a load of BS ?
No that's not bs. That's astrology 101. Right next to Cancer, what do we have, Gemini, the small, the minute, as opposed to Sagittarius the grand, the vast, the philosopher.

It COULD NOT BE CLOSER to the gear analogy ?

Are you a Cancer by any chance? Having teouble to come to terms with reality ? ? Jk

Also, you often see Cancers with great beauty and success in their later years, their other placements and their entourage can help them to succeed, they are a joy to be around, and a jewel, like Meryl Streep, or Pamela Anderson, they have a sort of purity that is fascinating. But that's the thing it can fade pretty badly, l know a 4x Cancer, from age 40 onward, his business, and drinking habit, and divorce, he just crashed and burned. It's like their light shines too bright, and then they fall, you know what l mean?
click to expand

I'm really intrigued on how you think the shine fades? A natural occurrence despite a happy successful life or they just can't cope and it's a downward spiral? What age group are we talking about here like retirement or sooner?

Genuinely curious
Profile picture of Moonbutter
Moonbutter
@Moonbutter
10 Years5,000+ Posts

Comments: 14 · Posts: 5192 · Topics: 94
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Cancers ARE PASSIVE-agressive.... And stupid...when it comes to the home, expect extreme behaviors, defensiveness....etc...they don't have the brains and professionaism to be normal.
Wow quite the generalization...I've experienced way worse behaviors from sags, Aries, Virgo, aquas. Etc. point is I think you should look at placements not the sign ?
But Cancers are like the 1st gear, there's a lot of good in them, but in the short term. They're not the sign of maturity, they often turn to the drink, or bitterness in their later years. They represent birth, and a young mother and her baby, there's all the mysteries of life in them, but they're not fit for the long haul, professional life etc...

Capricorns are like the 6th gear...?
What a load of BS ?
No that's not bs. That's astrology 101. Right next to Cancer, what do we have, Gemini, the small, the minute, as opposed to Sagittarius the grand, the vast, the philosopher.

It COULD NOT BE CLOSER to the gear analogy ?

Are you a Cancer by any chance? Having teouble to come to terms with reality ? ? Jk

Also, you often see Cancers with great beauty and success in their later years, their other placements and their entourage can help them to succeed, they are a joy to be around, and a jewel, like Meryl Streep, or Pamela Anderson, they have a sort of purity that is fascinating. But that's the thing it can fade pretty badly, l know a 4x Cancer, from age 40 onward, his business, and drinking habit, and divorce, he just crashed and burned. It's like their light shines too bright, and then they fall, you know what l mean?
Isn't the ascent what a sign ascends to be in life? I don't believe about signs crashing and burning later in life. Moon has a lot to do with the personality as well...
Well yeah, with your Sag moon you have great aspirations and skills...and the opposing Gemini will give you the all-round vision, and Geminis do ok later in life anyway. They feel overwhelmed by kids but they get by. But l can see how my words don't really apply to you. You're a good mix, you definitely havent seen your best days, l don't think you'll "crash and burn". Remember l was talking about a 4x Cancer ?
click to expand

Let's hope u are right about me lol. What is s 4x Cancer? Rising, sun, moon and Mars?
Profile picture of bricklemark
bricklemark
@bricklemark
10 Years5,000+ Posts

Comments: 76 · Posts: 6208 · Topics: 230
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Cancers ARE PASSIVE-agressive.... And stupid...when it comes to the home, expect extreme behaviors, defensiveness....etc...they don't have the brains and professionaism to be normal.
Wow quite the generalization...I've experienced way worse behaviors from sags, Aries, Virgo, aquas. Etc. point is I think you should look at placements not the sign ?
But Cancers are like the 1st gear, there's a lot of good in them, but in the short term. They're not the sign of maturity, they often turn to the drink, or bitterness in their later years. They represent birth, and a young mother and her baby, there's all the mysteries of life in them, but they're not fit for the long haul, professional life etc...

Capricorns are like the 6th gear...?
What a load of BS ?
No that's not bs. That's astrology 101. Right next to Cancer, what do we have, Gemini, the small, the minute, as opposed to Sagittarius the grand, the vast, the philosopher.

It COULD NOT BE CLOSER to the gear analogy ?

Are you a Cancer by any chance? Having teouble to come to terms with reality ? ? Jk

Also, you often see Cancers with great beauty and success in their later years, their other placements and their entourage can help them to succeed, they are a joy to be around, and a jewel, like Meryl Streep, or Pamela Anderson, they have a sort of purity that is fascinating. But that's the thing it can fade pretty badly, l know a 4x Cancer, from age 40 onward, his business, and drinking habit, and divorce, he just crashed and burned. It's like their light shines too bright, and then they fall, you know what l mean?
I'm really intrigued on how you think the shine fades? A natural occurrence despite a happy successful life or they just can't cope and it's a downward spiral? What age group are we talking about here like retirement or sooner?

Genuinely curious

click to expand

Happiness brings sadness, that's basically it. Sorrow is just worn out joy.

I see you're worried but this is the view from the outside, there will be no major surprises, relax lol.

Kurt Cobain, happy childhood, always surrounded, a genius kid, loved, very social etc....he fell hard and early. That's not to say you shouldnt seek joy, seek it, because the harder the fall the more you grow, and then you feel a deeper kind of joy.

Robert Downey Jr is an example of sm1 who flew too close to the sun, crashed, but didnt burn. He's a very serious guy, just does his job, expects nothing from life, and he's a shining success, without giving into happiness so to speak.
Profile picture of SpidySense
Spidey~Sense
@SpidySense
8 Years

Comments: 0 · Posts: 58 · Topics: 0
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Cancers ARE PASSIVE-agressive.... And stupid...when it comes to the home, expect extreme behaviors, defensiveness....etc...they don't have the brains and professionaism to be normal.
Wow quite the generalization...I've experienced way worse behaviors from sags, Aries, Virgo, aquas. Etc. point is I think you should look at placements not the sign ?
But Cancers are like the 1st gear, there's a lot of good in them, but in the short term. They're not the sign of maturity, they often turn to the drink, or bitterness in their later years. They represent birth, and a young mother and her baby, there's all the mysteries of life in them, but they're not fit for the long haul, professional life etc...

Capricorns are like the 6th gear...?
What a load of BS ?
No that's not bs. That's astrology 101. Right next to Cancer, what do we have, Gemini, the small, the minute, as opposed to Sagittarius the grand, the vast, the philosopher.

It COULD NOT BE CLOSER to the gear analogy ?

Are you a Cancer by any chance? Having teouble to come to terms with reality ? ? Jk

Also, you often see Cancers with great beauty and success in their later years, their other placements and their entourage can help them to succeed, they are a joy to be around, and a jewel, like Meryl Streep, or Pamela Anderson, they have a sort of purity that is fascinating. But that's the thing it can fade pretty badly, l know a 4x Cancer, from age 40 onward, his business, and drinking habit, and divorce, he just crashed and burned. It's like their light shines too bright, and then they fall, you know what l mean?
I'm really intrigued on how you think the shine fades? A natural occurrence despite a happy successful life or they just can't cope and it's a downward spiral? What age group are we talking about here like retirement or sooner?

Genuinely curious


Happiness brings sadness, that's basically it. Sorrow is just worn out joy.

I see you're worried but this is the view from the outside, there will be no major surprises, relax lol.

Kurt Cobain, happy childhood, always surrounded, a genius kid, loved, very social etc....he fell hard and early. That's not to say you shouldnt seek joy, seek it, because the harder the fall the more you grow, and then you feel a deeper kind of joy.

Robert Downey Jr is an example of sm1 who flew too close to the sun, crashed, but didnt burn. He's a very serious guy, just does his job, expects nothing from life, and he's a shining success, without giving into happiness so to speak.
click to expand



You sent us to our doom! I'll try to ration my happiness haha.

You realise we have shortened the shelf life of Cancers, I don't think they blossom till later and you think they fizzle out.. we've given crabs a 10 year window.

Kurt is a Pisces they are always genius child, they can't always cope with the reality of adult responsibilities. At the time he found his fame celebrity culture was just starting, you can tell he just wanted to make music but instead became an icon for generation, those grunge stars weren't prepped for fame like they are now. I wish Kurt had genuine good people in his corner instead of the blood suckers.

Robert Downey jr regenerated, that can happen if you hit rock bottom as there's nowhere to go but up. Happy for him

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Spidey~Sense
@SpidySense
8 Years

Comments: 0 · Posts: 58 · Topics: 0
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Cancers ARE PASSIVE-agressive.... And stupid...when it comes to the home, expect extreme behaviors, defensiveness....etc...they don't have the brains and professionaism to be normal.
Wow quite the generalization...I've experienced way worse behaviors from sags, Aries, Virgo, aquas. Etc. point is I think you should look at placements not the sign ?
But Cancers are like the 1st gear, there's a lot of good in them, but in the short term. They're not the sign of maturity, they often turn to the drink, or bitterness in their later years. They represent birth, and a young mother and her baby, there's all the mysteries of life in them, but they're not fit for the long haul, professional life etc...

Capricorns are like the 6th gear...?
What a load of BS ?
No that's not bs. That's astrology 101. Right next to Cancer, what do we have, Gemini, the small, the minute, as opposed to Sagittarius the grand, the vast, the philosopher.

It COULD NOT BE CLOSER to the gear analogy ?

Are you a Cancer by any chance? Having teouble to come to terms with reality ? ? Jk

Also, you often see Cancers with great beauty and success in their later years, their other placements and their entourage can help them to succeed, they are a joy to be around, and a jewel, like Meryl Streep, or Pamela Anderson, they have a sort of purity that is fascinating. But that's the thing it can fade pretty badly, l know a 4x Cancer, from age 40 onward, his business, and drinking habit, and divorce, he just crashed and burned. It's like their light shines too bright, and then they fall, you know what l mean?
Isn't the ascent what a sign ascends to be in life? I don't believe about signs crashing and burning later in life. Moon has a lot to do with the personality as well...
Well yeah, with your Sag moon you have great aspirations and skills...and the opposing Gemini will give you the all-round vision, and Geminis do ok later in life anyway. They feel overwhelmed by kids but they get by. But l can see how my words don't really apply to you. You're a good mix, you definitely havent seen your best days, l don't think you'll "crash and burn". Remember l was talking about a 4x Cancer ?
Let's hope u are right about me lol. What is s 4x Cancer? Rising, sun, moon and Mars?
click to expand

What does the 4x Cancer mean? ^
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bricklemark
@bricklemark
10 Years5,000+ Posts

Comments: 76 · Posts: 6208 · Topics: 230
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Cancers ARE PASSIVE-agressive.... And stupid...when it comes to the home, expect extreme behaviors, defensiveness....etc...they don't have the brains and professionaism to be normal.
Wow quite the generalization...I've experienced way worse behaviors from sags, Aries, Virgo, aquas. Etc. point is I think you should look at placements not the sign ?
But Cancers are like the 1st gear, there's a lot of good in them, but in the short term. They're not the sign of maturity, they often turn to the drink, or bitterness in their later years. They represent birth, and a young mother and her baby, there's all the mysteries of life in them, but they're not fit for the long haul, professional life etc...

Capricorns are like the 6th gear...?
What a load of BS ?
No that's not bs. That's astrology 101. Right next to Cancer, what do we have, Gemini, the small, the minute, as opposed to Sagittarius the grand, the vast, the philosopher.

It COULD NOT BE CLOSER to the gear analogy ?

Are you a Cancer by any chance? Having teouble to come to terms with reality ? ? Jk

Also, you often see Cancers with great beauty and success in their later years, their other placements and their entourage can help them to succeed, they are a joy to be around, and a jewel, like Meryl Streep, or Pamela Anderson, they have a sort of purity that is fascinating. But that's the thing it can fade pretty badly, l know a 4x Cancer, from age 40 onward, his business, and drinking habit, and divorce, he just crashed and burned. It's like their light shines too bright, and then they fall, you know what l mean?
I'm really intrigued on how you think the shine fades? A natural occurrence despite a happy successful life or they just can't cope and it's a downward spiral? What age group are we talking about here like retirement or sooner?

Genuinely curious


Happiness brings sadness, that's basically it. Sorrow is just worn out joy.

I see you're worried but this is the view from the outside, there will be no major surprises, relax lol.

Kurt Cobain, happy childhood, always surrounded, a genius kid, loved, very social etc....he fell hard and early. That's not to say you shouldnt seek joy, seek it, because the harder the fall the more you grow, and then you feel a deeper kind of joy.

Robert Downey Jr is an example of sm1 who flew too close to the sun, crashed, but didnt burn. He's a very serious guy, just does his job, expects nothing from life, and he's a shining success, without giving into happiness so to speak.


You sent us to our doom! I'll try to ration my happiness haha.

You realise we have shortened the shelf life of Cancers, I don't think they blossom till later and you think they fizzle out.. we've given crabs a 10 year window.

Kurt is a Pisces they are always genius child, they can't always cope with the reality of adult responsibilities. At the time he found his fame celebrity culture was just starting, you can tell he just wanted to make music but instead became an icon for generation, those grunge stars weren't prepped for fame like they are now. I wish Kurt had genuine good people in his corner instead of the blood suckers.

Robert Downey jr regenerated, that can happen if you hit rock bottom as there's nowhere to go but up. Happy for him

click to expand

I didnt send or shorten anything.... ? just observing

Kurt had a Cancer Venus l think, when the water signs add up, it gets bad. I think he was killed, he was revealing too many secrets ... But still, the heroin and all...l think Cancers burn out early. It may still be in their 40's but they burn out early.

Im surprised Roger Federer's still goin (Cancer venus and mars), but his leo, scorpio and virgo stuff probably power through.

Look at Rob's attitude tho...so serious, he's got his head on his shoulders.
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bricklemark
@bricklemark
10 Years5,000+ Posts

Comments: 76 · Posts: 6208 · Topics: 230
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Cancers ARE PASSIVE-agressive.... And stupid...when it comes to the home, expect extreme behaviors, defensiveness....etc...they don't have the brains and professionaism to be normal.
Wow quite the generalization...I've experienced way worse behaviors from sags, Aries, Virgo, aquas. Etc. point is I think you should look at placements not the sign ?
But Cancers are like the 1st gear, there's a lot of good in them, but in the short term. They're not the sign of maturity, they often turn to the drink, or bitterness in their later years. They represent birth, and a young mother and her baby, there's all the mysteries of life in them, but they're not fit for the long haul, professional life etc...

Capricorns are like the 6th gear...?
What a load of BS ?
No that's not bs. That's astrology 101. Right next to Cancer, what do we have, Gemini, the small, the minute, as opposed to Sagittarius the grand, the vast, the philosopher.

It COULD NOT BE CLOSER to the gear analogy ?

Are you a Cancer by any chance? Having teouble to come to terms with reality ? ? Jk

Also, you often see Cancers with great beauty and success in their later years, their other placements and their entourage can help them to succeed, they are a joy to be around, and a jewel, like Meryl Streep, or Pamela Anderson, they have a sort of purity that is fascinating. But that's the thing it can fade pretty badly, l know a 4x Cancer, from age 40 onward, his business, and drinking habit, and divorce, he just crashed and burned. It's like their light shines too bright, and then they fall, you know what l mean?
Isn't the ascent what a sign ascends to be in life? I don't believe about signs crashing and burning later in life. Moon has a lot to do with the personality as well...
Well yeah, with your Sag moon you have great aspirations and skills...and the opposing Gemini will give you the all-round vision, and Geminis do ok later in life anyway. They feel overwhelmed by kids but they get by. But l can see how my words don't really apply to you. You're a good mix, you definitely havent seen your best days, l don't think you'll "crash and burn". Remember l was talking about a 4x Cancer ?
Let's hope u are right about me lol. What is s 4x Cancer? Rising, sun, moon and Mars?
click to expand

Sun moon merc venus...

Rising virgo
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Spidey~Sense
@SpidySense
8 Years

Comments: 0 · Posts: 58 · Topics: 0
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Cancers ARE PASSIVE-agressive.... And stupid...when it comes to the home, expect extreme behaviors, defensiveness....etc...they don't have the brains and professionaism to be normal.
Wow quite the generalization...I've experienced way worse behaviors from sags, Aries, Virgo, aquas. Etc. point is I think you should look at placements not the sign ?
But Cancers are like the 1st gear, there's a lot of good in them, but in the short term. They're not the sign of maturity, they often turn to the drink, or bitterness in their later years. They represent birth, and a young mother and her baby, there's all the mysteries of life in them, but they're not fit for the long haul, professional life etc...

Capricorns are like the 6th gear...?
What a load of BS ?
No that's not bs. That's astrology 101. Right next to Cancer, what do we have, Gemini, the small, the minute, as opposed to Sagittarius the grand, the vast, the philosopher.

It COULD NOT BE CLOSER to the gear analogy ?

Are you a Cancer by any chance? Having teouble to come to terms with reality ? ? Jk

Also, you often see Cancers with great beauty and success in their later years, their other placements and their entourage can help them to succeed, they are a joy to be around, and a jewel, like Meryl Streep, or Pamela Anderson, they have a sort of purity that is fascinating. But that's the thing it can fade pretty badly, l know a 4x Cancer, from age 40 onward, his business, and drinking habit, and divorce, he just crashed and burned. It's like their light shines too bright, and then they fall, you know what l mean?
I'm really intrigued on how you think the shine fades? A natural occurrence despite a happy successful life or they just can't cope and it's a downward spiral? What age group are we talking about here like retirement or sooner?

Genuinely curious


Happiness brings sadness, that's basically it. Sorrow is just worn out joy.

I see you're worried but this is the view from the outside, there will be no major surprises, relax lol.

Kurt Cobain, happy childhood, always surrounded, a genius kid, loved, very social etc....he fell hard and early. That's not to say you shouldnt seek joy, seek it, because the harder the fall the more you grow, and then you feel a deeper kind of joy.

Robert Downey Jr is an example of sm1 who flew too close to the sun, crashed, but didnt burn. He's a very serious guy, just does his job, expects nothing from life, and he's a shining success, without giving into happiness so to speak.


You sent us to our doom! I'll try to ration my happiness haha.

You realise we have shortened the shelf life of Cancers, I don't think they blossom till later and you think they fizzle out.. we've given crabs a 10 year window.

Kurt is a Pisces they are always genius child, they can't always cope with the reality of adult responsibilities. At the time he found his fame celebrity culture was just starting, you can tell he just wanted to make music but instead became an icon for generation, those grunge stars weren't prepped for fame like they are now. I wish Kurt had genuine good people in his corner instead of the blood suckers.

Robert Downey jr regenerated, that can happen if you hit rock bottom as there's nowhere to go but up. Happy for him


I didnt send or shorten anything.... ? just observing

Kurt had a Cancer Venus l think, when the water signs add up, it gets bad. I think he was killed, he was revealing too many secrets ... But still, the heroin and all...l think Cancers burn out early. It may still be in their 40's but they burn out early.

Im surprised Roger Federer's still goin (Cancer venus and mars), but his leo, scorpio and virgo stuff probably power through.

Look at Rob's attitude tho...so serious, he's got his head on his shoulders.
click to expand



Kurt comes across as a sensitive soul, not everyone can cope with the fame and survive it all like Keith Richards now he's aspirational! Then again he's a Sag and they're immune to most things.

Feds is different and sports science has a lot to with athletes, I always knew he was hungry to beat Sampras' Wimbledon record and he did this year.

I'm curious to see how he's play next year whether that drive is still there?

That's great for Rob hope Charlie Sheen can take a page out of that book.
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lisabeth
@lisabethur8
13 Years50,000+ Posts

Comments: 4373 · Posts: 50653 · Topics: 564
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Cancers ARE PASSIVE-agressive.... And stupid...when it comes to the home, expect extreme behaviors, defensiveness....etc...they don't have the brains and professionaism to be normal.
Wow quite the generalization...I've experienced way worse behaviors from sags, Aries, Virgo, aquas. Etc. point is I think you should look at placements not the sign ?
But Cancers are like the 1st gear, there's a lot of good in them, but in the short term. They're not the sign of maturity, they often turn to the drink, or bitterness in their later years. They represent birth, and a young mother and her baby, there's all the mysteries of life in them, but they're not fit for the long haul, professional life etc...

Capricorns are like the 6th gear...?
What a load of BS ?
No that's not bs. That's astrology 101. Right next to Cancer, what do we have, Gemini, the small, the minute, as opposed to Sagittarius the grand, the vast, the philosopher.

It COULD NOT BE CLOSER to the gear analogy ?

Are you a Cancer by any chance? Having teouble to come to terms with reality ? ? Jk

Also, you often see Cancers with great beauty and success in their later years, their other placements and their entourage can help them to succeed, they are a joy to be around, and a jewel, like Meryl Streep, or Pamela Anderson, they have a sort of purity that is fascinating. But that's the thing it can fade pretty badly, l know a 4x Cancer, from age 40 onward, his business, and drinking habit, and divorce, he just crashed and burned. It's like their light shines too bright, and then they fall, you know what l mean?
I'm really intrigued on how you think the shine fades? A natural occurrence despite a happy successful life or they just can't cope and it's a downward spiral? What age group are we talking about here like retirement or sooner?

Genuinely curious


Happiness brings sadness, that's basically it. Sorrow is just worn out joy.

I see you're worried but this is the view from the outside, there will be no major surprises, relax lol.

Kurt Cobain, happy childhood, always surrounded, a genius kid, loved, very social etc....he fell hard and early. That's not to say you shouldnt seek joy, seek it, because the harder the fall the more you grow, and then you feel a deeper kind of joy.

Robert Downey Jr is an example of sm1 who flew too close to the sun, crashed, but didnt burn. He's a very serious guy, just does his job, expects nothing from life, and he's a shining success, without giving into happiness so to speak.


You sent us to our doom! I'll try to ration my happiness haha.

You realise we have shortened the shelf life of Cancers, I don't think they blossom till later and you think they fizzle out.. we've given crabs a 10 year window.

Kurt is a Pisces they are always genius child, they can't always cope with the reality of adult responsibilities. At the time he found his fame celebrity culture was just starting, you can tell he just wanted to make music but instead became an icon for generation, those grunge stars weren't prepped for fame like they are now. I wish Kurt had genuine good people in his corner instead of the blood suckers.

Robert Downey jr regenerated, that can happen if you hit rock bottom as there's nowhere to go but up. Happy for him


I didnt send or shorten anything.... ? just observing

Kurt had a Cancer Venus l think, when the water signs add up, it gets bad. I think he was killed, he was revealing too many secrets ... But still, the heroin and all...l think Cancers burn out early. It may still be in their 40's but they burn out early.

Im surprised Roger Federer's still goin (Cancer venus and mars), but his leo, scorpio and virgo stuff probably power through.

Look at Rob's attitude tho...so serious, he's got his head on his shoulders.
click to expand



What about Tom Cruise? He's not gonna burn out anytime soon and he's going strong even in his 50s.

but he got that Taurus mars and a Leo stellium pushing through maybe.

and Vin Diesel, i think he's gonna be like Sylvester Stallone, pushing through and being a bad ass old man in his 70s with big muscles and working out.
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Spidey~Sense
@SpidySense
8 Years

Comments: 0 · Posts: 58 · Topics: 0
Posted by tcta
Posted by SpidySense
By the time we've finished with this thread, I hope that op has moved out ?


I hope so too - that guy would drive me nuts - but I probably would have sensed that upon meeting and not moved in there - yuk
click to expand



He would drive anyone nuts!

Moving home can be a hassle, a lot of the times people need to weigh up what they can afford and location v the people.

Op will need to stand up for herself otherwise this pattern will keep repeating itself, it usually takes 3 months to get into proper routine with someone new that could apply to all types of relationships then again
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bricklemark
@bricklemark
10 Years5,000+ Posts

Comments: 76 · Posts: 6208 · Topics: 230
Posted by tcta


What about Tom Cruise? He's not gonna burn out anytime soon and he's going strong even in his 50s.

but he got that Taurus mars and a Leo stellium pushing through maybe.

and Vin Diesel, i think he's gonna be like Sylvester Stallone, pushing through and being a bad ass old man in his 70s with big muscles and working out.


Vin Deisel is a Cancer ?

click to expand

Of course, hes a big rpund crab baby ? Funny he played a babysitter in a movie ?
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bricklemark
@bricklemark
10 Years5,000+ Posts

Comments: 76 · Posts: 6208 · Topics: 230
Posted by lisabethur8
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by SpidySense
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by Moonbutter
Posted by bricklemark
Cancers ARE PASSIVE-agressive.... And stupid...when it comes to the home, expect extreme behaviors, defensiveness....etc...they don't have the brains and professionaism to be normal.
Wow quite the generalization...I've experienced way worse behaviors from sags, Aries, Virgo, aquas. Etc. point is I think you should look at placements not the sign ?
But Cancers are like the 1st gear, there's a lot of good in them, but in the short term. They're not the sign of maturity, they often turn to the drink, or bitterness in their later years. They represent birth, and a young mother and her baby, there's all the mysteries of life in them, but they're not fit for the long haul, professional life etc...

Capricorns are like the 6th gear...?
What a load of BS ?
No that's not bs. That's astrology 101. Right next to Cancer, what do we have, Gemini, the small, the minute, as opposed to Sagittarius the grand, the vast, the philosopher.

It COULD NOT BE CLOSER to the gear analogy ?

Are you a Cancer by any chance? Having teouble to come to terms with reality ? ? Jk

Also, you often see Cancers with great beauty and success in their later years, their other placements and their entourage can help them to succeed, they are a joy to be around, and a jewel, like Meryl Streep, or Pamela Anderson, they have a sort of purity that is fascinating. But that's the thing it can fade pretty badly, l know a 4x Cancer, from age 40 onward, his business, and drinking habit, and divorce, he just crashed and burned. It's like their light shines too bright, and then they fall, you know what l mean?
I'm really intrigued on how you think the shine fades? A natural occurrence despite a happy successful life or they just can't cope and it's a downward spiral? What age group are we talking about here like retirement or sooner?

Genuinely curious


Happiness brings sadness, that's basically it. Sorrow is just worn out joy.

I see you're worried but this is the view from the outside, there will be no major surprises, relax lol.

Kurt Cobain, happy childhood, always surrounded, a genius kid, loved, very social etc....he fell hard and early. That's not to say you shouldnt seek joy, seek it, because the harder the fall the more you grow, and then you feel a deeper kind of joy.

Robert Downey Jr is an example of sm1 who flew too close to the sun, crashed, but didnt burn. He's a very serious guy, just does his job, expects nothing from life, and he's a shining success, without giving into happiness so to speak.


You sent us to our doom! I'll try to ration my happiness haha.

You realise we have shortened the shelf life of Cancers, I don't think they blossom till later and you think they fizzle out.. we've given crabs a 10 year window.

Kurt is a Pisces they are always genius child, they can't always cope with the reality of adult responsibilities. At the time he found his fame celebrity culture was just starting, you can tell he just wanted to make music but instead became an icon for generation, those grunge stars weren't prepped for fame like they are now. I wish Kurt had genuine good people in his corner instead of the blood suckers.

Robert Downey jr regenerated, that can happen if you hit rock bottom as there's nowhere to go but up. Happy for him


I didnt send or shorten anything.... ? just observing

Kurt had a Cancer Venus l think, when the water signs add up, it gets bad. I think he was killed, he was revealing too many secrets ... But still, the heroin and all...l think Cancers burn out early. It may still be in their 40's but they burn out early.

Im surprised Roger Federer's still goin (Cancer venus and mars), but his leo, scorpio and virgo stuff probably power through.

Look at Rob's attitude tho...so serious, he's got his head on his shoulders.


What about Tom Cruise? He's not gonna burn out anytime soon and he's going strong even in his 50s.

but he got that Taurus mars and a Leo stellium pushing through maybe.

and Vin Diesel, i think he's gonna be like Sylvester Stallone, pushing through and being a bad ass old man in his 70s with big muscles and working out.

click to expand

Ton Cruise is a Leo....idc if your Sun is Cancer, if you got 4x Leo, which is rare, you're a Leo!... Lol that's why he's such a star.

Stallone has the exact same chart as GWBush, but Sag rising... Oftentimes stars will have chameleon charts, their signs arent so visible, they're a good mix.

But Vin l think we will see a fade, l never thought about it, but l'm guessing yeah.
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tcta
@tcta
10 Years5,000+ Posts

Comments: 3706 · Posts: 7112 · Topics: 18
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by tcta


What about Tom Cruise? He's not gonna burn out anytime soon and he's going strong even in his 50s.

but he got that Taurus mars and a Leo stellium pushing through maybe.

and Vin Diesel, i think he's gonna be like Sylvester Stallone, pushing through and being a bad ass old man in his 70s with big muscles and working out.


Vin Deisel is a Cancer ?


Of course, hes a big rpund crab baby ? Funny he played a babysitter in a movie ?
click to expand

lol I haven't seen that movie lol
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bricklemark
@bricklemark
10 Years5,000+ Posts

Comments: 76 · Posts: 6208 · Topics: 230
Posted by tcta
Posted by bricklemark
Posted by tcta


What about Tom Cruise? He's not gonna burn out anytime soon and he's going strong even in his 50s.

but he got that Taurus mars and a Leo stellium pushing through maybe.

and Vin Diesel, i think he's gonna be like Sylvester Stallone, pushing through and being a bad ass old man in his 70s with big muscles and working out.


Vin Deisel is a Cancer ?


Of course, hes a big rpund crab baby ? Funny he played a babysitter in a movie ?
lol I haven't seen that movie lol

click to expand

Me neither, but l notice these things..?