Wonderful Cap-Virgo, but Cap married to his family

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wildvirgo
@wildvirgo
12 Years

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I'm a Virgo woman in relationship with wonderful Cap man. We live together. He repeatedly complains he doesn't feel we spend enough time together, and I feel he is basically married to his family, which prevents us from doing so. It doesn't help that, despite being lovely people, everyone in his immediate family lives on their own, doesn't have a romantic relationship & is somewhat lonely.

He complains about not having enough time to rest (sleep, work-out, read/ go to the cinema) & see his friends and me, & yet seems to have difficulty saying no to things, in particular his family. I have no issue with him seeing his friends & family, I myself am busy socially, but it seems to be to such an extent that he is exhausted. Taking this week as an example, he saw one family member on Monday which meant he had to work late, helped a friend out on Tuesday which meant he was late for a meal organised with my friends, saw an elderly relativ all of Wednesday afternoon and evening which meant he had to get up super early to get his hours in, will be seeing another relative this evening meaning he'll be home at 11pm, and despite this he expects me to be available when he's available. I should add that the week before we spent a week together 'on holiday', yet even that was constantly interrupted by his family. I feel like he has no sense of boundaries.

I like being at home with him (having sex, taking a bath, reading together or simply doing our own thing but knowing the other is around) but that doesn't mean I don't want to go out. I have told him this. Instead of inviting me on dates, he just invites me to family stuff now (e.g. this weekend - rather than thinking of things we can do together, we have yet more family things planned). He says this reflects how serious he is about me. I will not, however, stay with someone who is this married to his family, it is suffocating.

Other than that, things are fine. We instinctively 'get' each other, are able to laugh & have serious conversations, have similar ideas. It is the family thing in particular which I feel is a big issue. I am not this bound to my family (though I get on very well with all of them, especially close family) and have no intention to ever become so bound to family, his or mine.

We have talked about it but he doesn't seem to change his behaviour. Please help!
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Scenic
@Scenic
13 Years5,000+ Posts

Comments: 273 · Posts: 5457 · Topics: 33
It has to do with a difference in values. He values (spending time with) his family more than most things. Talking about it won't change his behavior. If he told you that he has issues with the fact that you're more involved in your relationship than you are spending time with his or your family, would you change that? And be happy? IMO, you both either have to learn live with this difference in values or move on because I can't see it changing.
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wildvirgo
@wildvirgo
12 Years

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Often he doesn't seem happy when he sees them though, it is often somewhat conflictual. I get the feeling he does it due to a sense of obligation more than real enjoyment. His happiest time, IMO, is when he is better-rested and sees his close friends more, who he doesn't have much chance to see due to his family...

It is also very contradictory, he says our relationship doesn't have the space to grow (his words), well, it's not a surprise! I feel like a lot of it stems from an inability to say 'no'. And I am not willing to be the person he sees just as home and to put my life on hold as soon as he has some time.

I think he also counts on the fact that due to our otherwise strong compatability, I will simply forget about this and accept it, which is not the case. I am not willing to continue this relationship if it continues as is.
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Scenic
@Scenic
13 Years5,000+ Posts

Comments: 273 · Posts: 5457 · Topics: 33
He still values them enough to keep at it even if he's unhappy, yeah?

And he's probably just being honest about your relationship not being able to grow. If he doesn't have enough time to put forward everything into it then it will stay the same. It could also just be dismissive behavior and he has more or less settled for you in his mind.

But yes from your side of the story he does seem complacent and unwilling to put much effort into the relationship because of being busy and because he doesn't think it can grow. If you've talked this over with him and expressed how big of an issue this is to you then what else can you do but either work around it or leave? And that's probably where you're stuck at and why you're asking for help, but it's a choice of action and we cannot make you act. It's also up to you to decide what you want to do. He doesn't seem to have time to rekindle anything by taking you out on a date and doesn't seem to have budged after your talk(s) with him so it really comes down to a final choice now, which I've mentioned a few sentences up.
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Damnata
@Damnata
15 Years25,000+ PostsVirgo

Comments: 252 · Posts: 36418 · Topics: 473
Boy does this shit sound familliar. Also a Virgo chick who's been with a Cap for 3 years.

Capricorns are creatures of habit. If further down the line you get married to him, you'll have to get along with his family.

I tried to do the reasonable thing and get along with everybody early on, didn't work, his mother hated me. We lived together and that woman called me every day to ask me what I'm cooking for her son. Multiple discussion with him because I didn't think it was my right to intervene, nothing changed. One day I blew up and told her if she's that concerned with his eating habits, he should go back to living with her, as I have a life on my own to watch for and I'm not a babysitter.

Honestly, nothing you will say or do will help. It's probably draining for you to see him tired all the time but talking about this won't alleviate matters. He needs to hit rock bottom - as in be completely drained of everything. I'd stay away until that happens and I'd think really well if I mesh all well term with someone who has no concept of boundaries.
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wildvirgo
@wildvirgo
12 Years

Comments: 0 · Posts: 53 · Topics: 12
I guess I get the impression that for him he considers we don't have enough time together, but he also deems his family is very important, and he seems to consider inviting me to loads of family things as integrating me into his family. It seems to be a 'step forward' for him. He also doesn't seem too concerned about the future of our relationship as he has made his mind up (his words) and is in the process of introducing me to the people in his social and family structure. All of which IS important, but we do need some (more!) time together in order to grow as a couple. Also, it would be nice not just to see him when he is always exhausted and wants to refuge himself at home.
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wildvirgo
@wildvirgo
12 Years

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Posted by Damnata
Boy does this shit sound familliar. Also a Virgo chick who's been with a Cap for 3 years.

Capricorns are creatures of habit. If further down the line you get married to him, you'll have to get along with his family.

I tried to do the reasonable thing and get along with everybody early on, didn't work, his mother hated me. We lived together and that woman called me every day to ask me what I'm cooking for her son. Multiple discussion with him because I didn't think it was my right to intervene, nothing changed. One day I blew up and told her if she's that concerned with his eating habits, he should go back to living with her, as I have a life on my own to watch for and I'm not a babysitter.

Honestly, nothing you will say or do will help. It's probably draining for you to see him tired all the time but talking about this won't alleviate matters. He needs to hit rock bottom - as in be completely drained of everything. I'd stay away until that happens and I'd think really well if I mesh all well term with someone who has no concept of boundaries.



Yeh, we also had issues with family wanting us to babysit their kids before and after work (!) and also repeatedly ringing us (e.g. letting it ring till the end, x3) early in the morning on the weekend when we were typically 1) asleep or 2) cuddling/ having sex. To which I told him either he tell them to ring once and leave us (and ideally not super early on the weekends) or that I would tell them myself. He told them and this has now stopped. He has also told them he is willing to babysit exceptionally but not as a rule. So I guess there have been some 'improvements'. Otherwise I get on quite well with his family, though they are very overbearing, and as they all live on their own they don't seem to understand what it is to be in a (healthy!) couple.

I feel like giving him some space (going and staying with friends, not making any plans with him) and waiting until he comes back to me and tells me he is exhausted and needs to recharge with me (which he generally will, after a while). There are plently of friends I can see and things I can do, but I resent being expected to organise my life around his. He is important, but not more important to me than my own well-being.
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Damnata
@Damnata
15 Years25,000+ PostsVirgo

Comments: 252 · Posts: 36418 · Topics: 473
Posted by wildvirgo
I feel like giving him some space (going and staying with friends, not making any plans with him) and waiting until he comes back to me and tells me he is exhausted and needs to recharge with me (which he generally will, after a while). There are plently of friends I can see and things I can do, but I resent being expected to organise my life around his. He is important, but not more important to me than my own well-being.



This sounds perfect. Make plans and maybe don't include him at all for a while, because you always run the risk of him canceling, which would fuel your resentment. He will only understand by you having strong boundaries. If he wants to come to an event with you, let him know where it's at and what hour and then forget about it. This way, if he comes, you'll be happy and you won't feel like you either pressured him to join or took him away from his endless responsabilities.
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wildvirgo
@wildvirgo
12 Years

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Posted by Impulsv
Do u understand that is his nature. Some people are family values that u may define over bearing. Me n ex had those difference n he tried to cut me off to once a month family visits with sister n parents n cut off from extended family. What do u think happened. He wanted me all to himself. Not that thats what ur asking but he killed my good giving nature. Well he didn't I chose n sake for marriage. In the end it made me misarable depressed, not who
I was. In the end he said I shouldn't have to give up my family. 8 yrs finale.
U can't change someone's nature it is cruel. Yes boundaries are needed but u need to realize part of it is his nature.
It's just different values. I found me ex cold only seeing family on holiday never really doing or extending himself not a giver. He found me to giving. Not a match.



I think what's made it worse recently, is that since we got together, two of his close family members have split up from their partners, and so are feeling lonely. I honestly believe though, that when you work 40/50 hour weeks seeing family members 5 days out of 7 is too much, and this seems to be why some of his other relatives' relationships broke up - no space to do stuff together as a couple. It's not as if we have kids either and are already caught up in that kind of family dynamic.

To me, seeing family once every week is already too much if you want to also see friends, have couple time & do sport. I think seeing family once every 2 weeks is more than enough personally. He also said that his ex complained about it and considered it was overbearing, so it is obviously not just me.
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Montgomery
@Montgomery
12 Years10,000+ Posts

Comments: 552 · Posts: 18848 · Topics: 149
Sounds like he is overburdened with perceived obligation.

If he doesn't do these things, who will?

And people, as you've clearly seen, will run to him because they can count on him-- but that, I've found, is all too frequently abused.

As someone said before regarding boundaries, maybe lead by example with less ultimatums-- he doesn't see that he's doing anything wrong-- quite the contrary.

And Caps-- you *can* talk to them-- but it has to make sense and be reasonable (which your point totally is).

But give it time-- he can change, but not overnight, I imagine.


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wildvirgo
@wildvirgo
12 Years

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Posted by Montgomery
Sounds like he is overburdened with perceived obligation.

If he doesn't do these things, who will?

And people, as you've clearly seen, will run to him because they can count on him-- but that, I've found, is all too frequently abused.

As someone said before regarding boundaries, maybe lead by example with less ultimatums-- he doesn't see that he's doing anything wrong-- quite the contrary.

And Caps-- you *can* talk to them-- but it has to make sense and be reasonable (which your point totally is).

But give it time-- he can change, but not overnight, I imagine.




This is the thing - I am all for helping people out, whether colleagues, family or friends, but all IN PROPORTION, which is what unfortunately seems to be lacking here.

People also know that he is competent and helpful so often ask him to do things they can even do for themselves.

At the end of the day, I don't want to live with someone who, when I finally see him, is so exhausted and stressed, because he doesn't know how to say no. It is sad for me because even if he enjoys helping people, he doesn't enjoy helping them when he isn't even taking care of his basic needs such as sleep, rest, exercise, regular meals.

I'm not sure how to get him to understand that I am very serious about this. He does really seem to be in the mindset 'I have made up my mind that I want to build a future with this person, it is certain'... thus thinking I'll put up with it!
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SureShotCap
@SureShotCap
12 Years500+ Posts

Comments: 12 · Posts: 793 · Topics: 6
Sounds like his family is taking advantage of him. He is so dedicated and dependable, that he ignores the facts(he's in denial). Lots of capricorns suffer from this syndrome, it's called "all work(responsibilities) and no play(personal life)", aka making everyone in his life happy but himself. His only thought at the moment is that he cannot let down the people he loves.

Loyalty is not a quality that many have by birth. Since we are born with it hardwired in our brain, it's not easy to change. He is also protecting his reputation to the fullest. Which is also been with himself since birth. He is using all of his essence from the root of his existence to please these people that he feels don't appreciate him enough. So he will continue to try at the expense of his personal life through sacrifice.

Capricorns really never feel truly appreciated for their efforts. This is why we will never quit trying.

You must use this exploit to bring forth the truth in the matter in a non subtile way, making it as natural as can be... If you get caught, he will notice and reject the possibilities of second guessing himself. The only way is to make him feel appreciated. So appreciated that he thinks about you all the time. So that he can compare everyone and come to a conclusion and make a logical decision about the matter. This might take some time. You can never demand his time, you must earn it. Only he is in control of his time and how he spends it. Capricorns also hate wasting time. Once he realizes, that this will never end, until he stops it.....
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wildvirgo
@wildvirgo
12 Years

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Posted by SureShotCap
You must use this exploit to bring forth the truth in the matter in a non subtile way, making it as natural as can be... If you get caught, he will notice and reject the possibilities of second guessing himself.



Thanks for your response. Can you elaborate on this part a bit please?

What's funny is that at the end of the day he is beginning to push me away and may end up in the same situation as the rest of his family, i.e. single. I don't feel appreciated when he pouts because I'm not free when, after days of literally not seeing him or only dealing with him in a mood because he's tired and worn out, suddenly he wants all my time and affection.

There's just no sense of order. I suggested thinking about time in a different way and thinking what the basics are he needs for himself (i.e. sleep, gym, see friends, relax) and then pencil in some time for family now and then. He didn't seem to get my way of doing it though.
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lnana04
@lnana04
15 Years5,000+ Posts

Comments: 2 · Posts: 8822 · Topics: 132
Maybe just maybe he spends so much time with them because he isnt completely comfortable in the relationshio yet, so he is constantly where his comfort is.

I mean reading, there is a lot of your personal preferences, and how you think things should go, what you think he should do etc...and maybe he is running away from that pressure of your idea of a healthy relationship, running away from that pressure especially if he's not getting something he'd want in return *hint* him saying he doesnt think the relationship can grow. It seems he likes you alot, but maybe doesnt feel the two of you are the perfect fit for eachother. Just my opinion.

Do you have or want kids? Marriage? Are you big on having a family of your own? Good with cooking, cleaning, taking care of things on the home front.

Cap males are also very traditional in that way.
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wildvirgo
@wildvirgo
12 Years

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Posted by lnana04
Maybe just maybe he spends so much time with them because he isnt completely comfortable in the relationshio yet, so he is constantly where his comfort is.

I mean reading, there is a lot of your personal preferences, and how you think things should go, what you think he should do etc...and maybe he is running away from that pressure of your idea of a healthy relationship, running away from that pressure especially if he's not getting something he'd want in return *hint* him saying he doesnt think the relationship can grow. It seems he likes you alot, but maybe doesnt feel the two of you are the perfect fit for eachother. Just my opinion.

Do you have or want kids? Marriage? Are you big on having a family of your own? Good with cooking, cleaning, taking care of things on the home front.

Cap males are also very traditional in that way.



An important precision: he said he thinks the relationship can't grow as much as he'd like it to right now -because- his family is so present. So I think he recognises it's an issue.

All these things (kids, marriage) are things we have discussed. He is also quite 'homely', and very much into us both doing as much as we can to help the other, at least when he's around.

I guess I feel it's so suffocating with his family. Where is our time just the two of us? Or with our friends, simply? When he's with me he's very happy, and indeed he wants/ demands time with me, but I don't think it's mature of him to expect me to drop everything because he suddenly wants to see me.
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capgirl69
@capgirl69
12 Years1,000+ PostsCapricorn

Comments: 31 · Posts: 2423 · Topics: 55
Well what I see is:
You live together.
Now, instead of asking you on dates, you guys stay home or go to family functions.

How long have you been living together?

I think this is normal, honestly.
You live together so now you're part of the family. He wants you to get to know his family, feel comfortable, etc.

Obligation is also a part of it, and in my opinion, that's not going to go away. So if you can't live with his family, or you think he spends an inordinate amount of time with them, then you are going to be unhappy.
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capgirl69
@capgirl69
12 Years1,000+ PostsCapricorn

Comments: 31 · Posts: 2423 · Topics: 55
Posted by wildvirgo
I guess I get the impression that for him he considers we don't have enough time together, but he also deems his family is very important, and he seems to consider inviting me to loads of family things as integrating me into his family. It seems to be a 'step forward' for him. He also doesn't seem too concerned about the future of our relationship as he has made his mind up (his words) and is in the process of introducing me to the people in his social and family structure. All of which IS important, but we do need some (more!) time together in order to grow as a couple. Also, it would be nice not just to see him when he is always exhausted and wants to refuge himself at home.



Lol. He made his mind up. That's it.
I'm the same way, I've said the same thing to my Scorp- I've made my mind up, I'm not going anywhere.

We can get very secure in a relationship if we trust a person.
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SureShotCap
@SureShotCap
12 Years500+ Posts

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Posted by wildvirgo
Thanks for your response. Can you elaborate on this part a bit please?

What's funny is that at the end of the day he is beginning to push me away and may end up in the same situation as the rest of his family, i.e. single. I don't feel appreciated when he pouts because I'm not free when, after days of literally not seeing him or only dealing with him in a mood because he's tired and worn out, suddenly he wants all my time and affection.

There's just no sense of order. I suggested thinking about time in a different way and thinking what the basics are he needs for himself (i.e. sleep, gym, see friends, relax) and then pencil in some time for family now and then. He didn't seem to get my way of doing it though.


Doing anything to help lift his burdens WITHOUT expecting anything in return is what I am talking about. You said you have free time. Go and help his family the way he does and he will see your effort. Then when they use you, he will see what YOU are talking about. Yeah, I know, to much work right. Sacrifice has no limits. If he can do it, so can you...

Posted by champranger

You had me up to the end of the second paragraph lol. I get that he continues to try to please the people he love because he wants appreciation and recognition for his efforts, yes?
Correct. But being loyal and being a sucker are two different things

So he will only keep trying to please the people he love, when he feels he is not appreciated enough? If OP does indeed making him feel appreciated (IF lol), how will that help him see that he is spending too much efforts on his family?
Caps would do anything for family. But, his family must all be old or handicapped because instead of helping each other with things, they leave the burden up to him, the responsible guy.

Appreciation isn't just a "Thank you" like the world sees it. It means returning the favor of equal or of more value in ACTION.


Cuz my mind thinks that maybe he will not put in as much effort if he is feels really really appreciated, but I know that is not true. *logic FAIL* lol
Caps only give up when we predict that there is no future in ones efforts...
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wildvirgo
@wildvirgo
12 Years

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Thanks for everyone's comments.

RE me taking on more: I am willing to assume a bit more when I have more time, but not everything. I am also busy with my own responsibilities. I have never been nor will become a doormat. My Capricorn generally gladly helps with cooking & housework, and IMO this is the way it should be.

Update: We talked. We discussed our respective ideas (including mine that seeing family - his or mine, since I consider it as one entity - every 2/3 weeks is more than enough), and he said he does indeed feel burdened with a sense of obligation and responsibility, but that indeed, not everything is his responsibility. He also said his family could help each other themselves & not always rely on him. There are several family members who are retired or who don't work much, who consequently have far more time than my Capricorn.

I also suggested one thing we could do is host family gatherings at our place from time to time, that way he can see everyone together & there is a sense of regular communion/ coming together, something both I and he think consider important. He acknowledged that he wants more sense of balance, and that it is indeed a sense of responsibility which he himself creates (!) and that at the end of the day it is only him who can create the life he wants. He also insisted that he wants to be able to focus on his goals & also his own future family, which can only happen if we honour our relationship/couple (his words).

So, watch this space...
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Iamawinelover
@Iamawinelover
16 Years500+ PostsCapricorn

Comments: 11 · Posts: 541 · Topics: 15
Posted by wildvirgo
I'm a Virgo woman in relationship with wonderful Cap man. We live together. He repeatedly complains he doesn't feel we spend enough time together, and I feel he is basically married to his family, which prevents us from doing so. It doesn't help that, despite being lovely people, everyone in his immediate family lives on their own, doesn't have a romantic relationship & is somewhat lonely.

He complains about not having enough time to rest (sleep, work-out, read/ go to the cinema) & see his friends and me, & yet seems to have difficulty saying no to things, in particular his family. I have no issue with him seeing his friends & family, I myself am busy socially, but it seems to be to such an extent that he is exhausted. Taking this week as an example, he saw one family member on Monday which meant he had to work late, helped a friend out on Tuesday which meant he was late for a meal organised with my friends, saw an elderly relativ all of Wednesday afternoon and evening which meant he had to get up super early to get his hours in, will be seeing another relative this evening meaning he'll be home at 11pm, and despite this he expects me to be available when he's available. I should add that the week before we spent a week together 'on holiday', yet even that was constantly interrupted by his family. I feel like he has no sense of boundaries.

I like being at home with him (having sex, taking a bath, reading together or simply doing our own thing but knowing the other is around) but that doesn't mean I don't want to go out. I have told him this. Instead of inviting me on dates, he just invites me to family stuff now (e.g. this weekend - rather than thinking of things we can do together, we have yet more family things planned). He says this reflects how serious he is about me. I will not, however, stay with someone who is this married to his family, it is suffocating.

Other than that, things are fine. We instinctively 'get' each other, are able to laugh & have serious conversations, have similar ideas. It is the family thing in particular which I feel is a big issue. I am not this bound to my family (though I get on very well with all of them, especially close family) and have no intention to ever become so bound to family, his or mine.

We have talked about it but he doesn't seem to change his behaviour. Please help!

You won't change his behavior. Yo
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Iamawinelover
@Iamawinelover
16 Years500+ PostsCapricorn

Comments: 11 · Posts: 541 · Topics: 15
Posted by Iamawinelover
Posted by wildvirgo
I'm a Virgo woman in relationship with wonderful Cap man. We live together. He repeatedly complains he doesn't feel we spend enough time together, and I feel he is basically married to his family, which prevents us from doing so. It doesn't help that, despite being lovely people, everyone in his immediate family lives on their own, doesn't have a romantic relationship & is somewhat lonely.

He complains about not having enough time to rest (sleep, work-out, read/ go to the cinema) & see his friends and me, & yet seems to have difficulty saying no to things, in particular his family. I have no issue with him seeing his friends & family, I myself am busy socially, but it seems to be to such an extent that he is exhausted. Taking this week as an example, he saw one family member on Monday which meant he had to work late, helped a friend out on Tuesday which meant he was late for a meal organised with my friends, saw an elderly relativ all of Wednesday afternoon and evening which meant he had to get up super early to get his hours in, will be seeing another relative this evening meaning he'll be home at 11pm, and despite this he expects me to be available when he's available. I should add that the week before we spent a week together 'on holiday', yet even that was constantly interrupted by his family. I feel like he has no sense of boundaries.

I like being at home with him (having sex, taking a bath, reading together or simply doing our own thing but knowing the other is around) but that doesn't mean I don't want to go out. I have told him this. Instead of inviting me on dates, he just invites me to family stuff now (e.g. this weekend - rather than thinking of things we can do together, we have yet more family things planned). He says this reflects how serious he is about me. I will not, however, stay with someone who is this married to his family, it is suffocating.

Other than that, things are fine. We instinctively 'get' each other, are able to laugh & have serious conversations, have similar ideas. It is the family thing in particular which I feel is a big issue. I am not this bound to my family (though I get on very well with all of them, especially close family) and have no intention to ever become so bound to family, his or mine.

We have talked about it but he doe