@seizeTheDay
21 Years1,000+ Posts
feeling under-appreciated?
STD
As Parallax says.. Plus.
See it for yourself.. Marriage is a traditional thing; in today's fast moving modern societies that both sexes are independent, marriage is a meaningless a "paper work".
Couples can live with each other have kids? till death turn'em apart without being married. There is no reason to get married unless couples are both raised in communities with the religion and traditional belief.
It was a time when men and women initiate the marriage to declare their independency to the world and their family. Is it necessary today..?? Why are we looking for a long term relationship before possible marriage "desperately".? Taste the goods before buy it..??
Back in time, engagement periods as far as I remember was set at max 6 months (just dating and talking, and absolutely NO sexual contacts was allowed during at that time), take the lady out with her parents permission and deliver her right to the door "intact" at promised hour (just to prove lady's parent that you are responsible).
Those rules were the reason to get married with the lady ASAP.
Today however is different, we don?t follow the traditions anymore, anyone can pick anyone at nearest bar or meeting place or web date stuff with a bit luck and couple of date end up in bed with a passion and sex hunger? like animals. Actions before thoughts..!
The success formula was "innocence, moral, love, tender, and then passion"??. Now is more likely, passion then perhaps some tender as follow, no love and absolutely no innocence.
Now.. Why would anyone get married..??
As Parallax says.. Plus.
See it for yourself.. Marriage is a traditional thing; in today's fast moving modern societies that both sexes are independent, marriage is a meaningless a "paper work".
Couples can live with each other have kids? till death turn'em apart without being married. There is no reason to get married unless couples are both raised in communities with the religion and traditional belief.
It was a time when men and women initiate the marriage to declare their independency to the world and their family. Is it necessary today..?? Why are we looking for a long term relationship before possible marriage "desperately".? Taste the goods before buy it..??
Back in time, engagement periods as far as I remember was set at max 6 months (just dating and talking, and absolutely NO sexual contacts was allowed during at that time), take the lady out with her parents permission and deliver her right to the door "intact" at promised hour (just to prove lady's parent that you are responsible).
Those rules were the reason to get married with the lady ASAP.
Today however is different, we don?t follow the traditions anymore, anyone can pick anyone at nearest bar or meeting place or web date stuff with a bit luck and couple of date end up in bed with a passion and sex hunger? like animals. Actions before thoughts..!
The success formula was "innocence, moral, love, tender, and then passion"??. Now is more likely, passion then perhaps some tender as follow, no love and absolutely no innocence.
Now.. Why would anyone get married..??
STD
Your friend may also considering (DA RULES).
Rules to Be a Man (as Men see it)
? The female always makes the Rules.
? The Rules are subject to change at any time without prior notification.
? No male can possibly know all the Rules.
? If the female suspects the male knows all the Rules, she must immediately change some or all of them.
? The female is never wrong.
? If the female is wrong, it is due to a misunderstanding which was a direct result of something the male did or said wrong.
? If the previous Rule applies, the male must apologize immediately for causing the misunderstanding.
? The female may change her mind at any time.
? The male must never change his mind without the written consent of the female.
? The female has every right to be angry or upset at any time.
? The male must remain calm at all times, unless the female wants him to be angry or upset.
? The male is expected to be a mind reader at all times.
? The male who doesn't abide by the Rules can't take the heat, lacks backbone and is a wimp.
? Any attempt to document the Rules could result in bodily harm.
? If the female has PMS (Preposterous Mood Swings), all of the Rules are null and void.
? The female is ready when she is ready.
? The male must be ready at all times.
... And don't you dare forget it!
Once again, the female staff will be offering courses to men of all marital status. Please note: the names of some courses have been changed. Attendance in at least 10 of the following courses in mandatory.
? Combating stupidity.
? You Can Do Housework, Too.
? PMS - Learning When To Keep Your Mouth Shut.
? How to Fill an Ice Tray.
? We Do Not Want Sleazy Under things for Christmas - Give Us Money!
? Understanding the Female Response to You Coming in Drunk at 4 AM.
? Wonderful Laundry Techniques (formally titled "Don't Wash My Silks")
? Parenting - No It Doesn't End with Conception.
? Get a Life - Learn to Cook.
? How Not to Act Like An Asshole When You're Obviously Wrong.
? Spelling - Even You Can Get if Right.
? Understanding your Financial Incompetence.
? You - The Weaker Sex.
? Reasons to Give Flowers.
? How to Stay Awake After Sex.
? Why It Is Unacceptable to Relieve Yourself Anywhere But the Washroom.
? Garbage - Getting It to the Curb.
? #101 - You Can Fall Asleep Without It If You Really Try.
? #201 - "The Morning Dilemma" - If It's Awake, Take a Shower.
? I'll Wear It If I Damn Well Please.
? How to Put the Toilet Lid Down.
? 'The Weekend' and 'Sports' Are not Synonyms.
? Give Me A Break! - Why We Know Your Excuses Are Bullshit.
? How to Go Shopping With Your Mate without Getting Lost.
? The Remote Control - Overcoming Your Dependency.
? Romanticism - Other Ideas besides Sex.
? Helpful Postural Hints for Couch Potatoes.
? Mothers-in-Law - They Are Peopling Too.
? How Not To Act Younger Than Your Children.
? You Too Can Be A Designated Driver.
? Male Bonding - Leaving Your Friends At Home.
? Honest, You Don't Look Like Mel Gibson (Especially When Naked).
? Changing Your Underwear - It Really Works.
? The Attainable Goal - Omitting "@&^@#!" From Your Vocabulary.
? Fluffing The Blankets after Farting is Not Necessary.
sigh........females......
🙂
Your friend may also considering (DA RULES).
Rules to Be a Man (as Men see it)
? The female always makes the Rules.
? The Rules are subject to change at any time without prior notification.
? No male can possibly know all the Rules.
? If the female suspects the male knows all the Rules, she must immediately change some or all of them.
? The female is never wrong.
? If the female is wrong, it is due to a misunderstanding which was a direct result of something the male did or said wrong.
? If the previous Rule applies, the male must apologize immediately for causing the misunderstanding.
? The female may change her mind at any time.
? The male must never change his mind without the written consent of the female.
? The female has every right to be angry or upset at any time.
? The male must remain calm at all times, unless the female wants him to be angry or upset.
? The male is expected to be a mind reader at all times.
? The male who doesn't abide by the Rules can't take the heat, lacks backbone and is a wimp.
? Any attempt to document the Rules could result in bodily harm.
? If the female has PMS (Preposterous Mood Swings), all of the Rules are null and void.
? The female is ready when she is ready.
? The male must be ready at all times.
... And don't you dare forget it!
Once again, the female staff will be offering courses to men of all marital status. Please note: the names of some courses have been changed. Attendance in at least 10 of the following courses in mandatory.
? Combating stupidity.
? You Can Do Housework, Too.
? PMS - Learning When To Keep Your Mouth Shut.
? How to Fill an Ice Tray.
? We Do Not Want Sleazy Under things for Christmas - Give Us Money!
? Understanding the Female Response to You Coming in Drunk at 4 AM.
? Wonderful Laundry Techniques (formally titled "Don't Wash My Silks")
? Parenting - No It Doesn't End with Conception.
? Get a Life - Learn to Cook.
? How Not to Act Like An Asshole When You're Obviously Wrong.
? Spelling - Even You Can Get if Right.
? Understanding your Financial Incompetence.
? You - The Weaker Sex.
? Reasons to Give Flowers.
? How to Stay Awake After Sex.
? Why It Is Unacceptable to Relieve Yourself Anywhere But the Washroom.
? Garbage - Getting It to the Curb.
? #101 - You Can Fall Asleep Without It If You Really Try.
? #201 - "The Morning Dilemma" - If It's Awake, Take a Shower.
? I'll Wear It If I Damn Well Please.
? How to Put the Toilet Lid Down.
? 'The Weekend' and 'Sports' Are not Synonyms.
? Give Me A Break! - Why We Know Your Excuses Are Bullshit.
? How to Go Shopping With Your Mate without Getting Lost.
? The Remote Control - Overcoming Your Dependency.
? Romanticism - Other Ideas besides Sex.
? Helpful Postural Hints for Couch Potatoes.
? Mothers-in-Law - They Are Peopling Too.
? How Not To Act Younger Than Your Children.
? You Too Can Be A Designated Driver.
? Male Bonding - Leaving Your Friends At Home.
? Honest, You Don't Look Like Mel Gibson (Especially When Naked).
? Changing Your Underwear - It Really Works.
? The Attainable Goal - Omitting "@&^@#!" From Your Vocabulary.
? Fluffing The Blankets after Farting is Not Necessary.
sigh........females......
🙂
LOL Qbone those are just internet jokes. Anyway I know many things sound far from good humour.
Theoritically speaking, in economics marriage has been defined as a convenient and most accepted way of property settlement. Sociologically it implies the best way to bring up the children in emotionally stable environment. Some authors also agree that marriage brings emotional stability and order in society( sexual behaviour). Whatever the accpeted defnition of marriage the truth of the matter in most societies was/is that men are the main bread winner & hence in several societies property/wealth owner. After him his children would inherit his property.
In very early part of pre-historic age humans didnt realsie that sexual intersourse results in pregnancy. They thought that a woman with her extra-ordinary powers produces a child- hence the mother goddess image.. The maternity of the child was important in determining the property rights. But as realisation of a man's role in reproduction dawned in... the control of woman's sexuality began. Men wanted their wealth ot pass downt o their biologial children. He had to ensure that his wife is carrying his baby .. who would inherit his property. So paternity of the child became a criteria to inheritance(in most societies).A woman used to be her father's reponsibility till she got married and the responsibility was later on transfered to her husband who would take care o her till her deaath. She in return was supposed ot look after the household and give birht to babies and nurture them. So she was trained to behave in a particualr way(innocene, morals etc..)
Coming to modern times. The women got their rights & the right to divorce became a major breakthrough in liberation of women. But it also meant division of property & the alimony issue. This went against the carefully built up economic set up by men. As marriages became more unstable the awareness that each time a man gets divorced, he will have to pay through his nose for post-divorce arangements & he would end up at where he started all over agian. I am mainly talking about the wealth part...what more he even looses his children. In most countries the court gives total authority to mothers to make all decisions regarding the child including when s/he can meet the father. So all this has made marriage a very unattractive proposition to men.
Ofcourse the other reasons include pledging loyalty to their respective wife! 😉 The loss of independence! LOL they are so used to fight battles outside on their own but at home they may not be the boss. But on the other hand there are couples who have really balanced the scales very well & are blessed with marital bliss for ever.🙂
Please note this post is a to the point response to sTD's question regard male discomfort in marriage. I am not being partial to men..
Theoritically speaking, in economics marriage has been defined as a convenient and most accepted way of property settlement. Sociologically it implies the best way to bring up the children in emotionally stable environment. Some authors also agree that marriage brings emotional stability and order in society( sexual behaviour). Whatever the accpeted defnition of marriage the truth of the matter in most societies was/is that men are the main bread winner & hence in several societies property/wealth owner. After him his children would inherit his property.
In very early part of pre-historic age humans didnt realsie that sexual intersourse results in pregnancy. They thought that a woman with her extra-ordinary powers produces a child- hence the mother goddess image.. The maternity of the child was important in determining the property rights. But as realisation of a man's role in reproduction dawned in... the control of woman's sexuality began. Men wanted their wealth ot pass downt o their biologial children. He had to ensure that his wife is carrying his baby .. who would inherit his property. So paternity of the child became a criteria to inheritance(in most societies).A woman used to be her father's reponsibility till she got married and the responsibility was later on transfered to her husband who would take care o her till her deaath. She in return was supposed ot look after the household and give birht to babies and nurture them. So she was trained to behave in a particualr way(innocene, morals etc..)
Coming to modern times. The women got their rights & the right to divorce became a major breakthrough in liberation of women. But it also meant division of property & the alimony issue. This went against the carefully built up economic set up by men. As marriages became more unstable the awareness that each time a man gets divorced, he will have to pay through his nose for post-divorce arangements & he would end up at where he started all over agian. I am mainly talking about the wealth part...what more he even looses his children. In most countries the court gives total authority to mothers to make all decisions regarding the child including when s/he can meet the father. So all this has made marriage a very unattractive proposition to men.
Ofcourse the other reasons include pledging loyalty to their respective wife! 😉 The loss of independence! LOL they are so used to fight battles outside on their own but at home they may not be the boss. But on the other hand there are couples who have really balanced the scales very well & are blessed with marital bliss for ever.🙂
Please note this post is a to the point response to sTD's question regard male discomfort in marriage. I am not being partial to men..
First of all, a marriage is a surrender of one man to one woman, period. No state, federal, or government anything. Anything attached to that, (money, material things, children, legacies) is a part of the original intent, not of it.
Man got what he wanted in the beginning. He draws her back to where she came from, unless she doesn't want to go.
Some men are starting to act more like women.
Man got what he wanted in the beginning. He draws her back to where she came from, unless she doesn't want to go.
Some men are starting to act more like women.
Well my dear There are differnt definitions of marriages & each thinker defines it in terms of her/his field of study.
The surrender of man to woman concept - well dont you think it was the other way round? You yourself has admitted that the man got he wanted......his surrender was limited to making her pregnant and then after that just providing for her.
And you mentioned that some men have started acting more like a woman.. So what is "like a woman" behaviour? Will you define it?
The surrender of man to woman concept - well dont you think it was the other way round? You yourself has admitted that the man got he wanted......his surrender was limited to making her pregnant and then after that just providing for her.
And you mentioned that some men have started acting more like a woman.. So what is "like a woman" behaviour? Will you define it?
Good point Looneybird..!
I am curious too.
🙂
I am curious too.
🙂
Thank you all for your comments...
Parallax, you're right-- my friend is a big wuss, and he should get more involved if that's what he wants to be... but don't most men wanna sit back and enjoy the ride? As far as custody battles and role reversals go: although the wheels of justice are slowly turning, I have heard of court cases where men do receive some favor in court if they prove to be the more reliable parent. I think judges are finally realizing that some women aren't the "better" parent-- possibly because of emotional instability-- or the inability to support themselves and the children.
Qbone and Looneybird, I agree with you. Given that women are now more economically independent-- and societial rules no longer dictating that we wait for marriage to have sex...
Why IS marriage even necessary anymore?
In my opinion, marriage offers a structured environment conducive for having children... but for those of us looking for just a lifetime mate-- do we need to go down the isle? Where's the benefit?
Ladydane.. I don't think marriage is a "surrender" for women anymore. At least, not in the states. I think SOME women still go into marriage out of some obligation-- however, I think a lot of women know they have unlimited options, and their lives are not defined by the presence of a husband.
You're right, there are a lot of "role" reversals. More men are taking on the role of "home-maker", and dare I mention the "metro-sexual"? While women are being more active in coorporate settings and serving on the police force and in the army.
In answer to my own question. I haven't heard men specifically complain about being under-appreciated, but I do think some men feel a loss of control. The pendulum is swinging, but not in "our" direction... I don't think women want to take over. I think what will make the masses happy are nice shades of gray. Where people are who "they" say they are-- and society does not conform them to one role or another.
-sTD
Parallax, you're right-- my friend is a big wuss, and he should get more involved if that's what he wants to be... but don't most men wanna sit back and enjoy the ride? As far as custody battles and role reversals go: although the wheels of justice are slowly turning, I have heard of court cases where men do receive some favor in court if they prove to be the more reliable parent. I think judges are finally realizing that some women aren't the "better" parent-- possibly because of emotional instability-- or the inability to support themselves and the children.
Qbone and Looneybird, I agree with you. Given that women are now more economically independent-- and societial rules no longer dictating that we wait for marriage to have sex...
Why IS marriage even necessary anymore?
In my opinion, marriage offers a structured environment conducive for having children... but for those of us looking for just a lifetime mate-- do we need to go down the isle? Where's the benefit?
Ladydane.. I don't think marriage is a "surrender" for women anymore. At least, not in the states. I think SOME women still go into marriage out of some obligation-- however, I think a lot of women know they have unlimited options, and their lives are not defined by the presence of a husband.
You're right, there are a lot of "role" reversals. More men are taking on the role of "home-maker", and dare I mention the "metro-sexual"? While women are being more active in coorporate settings and serving on the police force and in the army.
In answer to my own question. I haven't heard men specifically complain about being under-appreciated, but I do think some men feel a loss of control. The pendulum is swinging, but not in "our" direction... I don't think women want to take over. I think what will make the masses happy are nice shades of gray. Where people are who "they" say they are-- and society does not conform them to one role or another.
-sTD
The metro-sexual man is the man who is not afraid to pamper himself. He gets facials, manicures, and he wears the latest fashion (for men). Not to mention, he also knows the best shampoo-conditioner combo that will give his hair body and shine.
This guy can intimidate some women with his unique eye for detail when it comes to his personal appearance-- but he's not homosexual. The "metro-sexual" label initially identified bachelors in metropolitan areas, who have taken on these unique qualities... but now I think this behavior has extended out to all walks of life.
This guy loves women like he loves himself.
This guy can intimidate some women with his unique eye for detail when it comes to his personal appearance-- but he's not homosexual. The "metro-sexual" label initially identified bachelors in metropolitan areas, who have taken on these unique qualities... but now I think this behavior has extended out to all walks of life.
This guy loves women like he loves himself.
Much very like "Patrick Bateman" ??....man....!
Well, yes-- minus the homicidal tendencies.
I don't mean surrender in the sense of submission or someone ruling over another. If you have what you want, why should anything related to society's views be attached to it?
As I understand it, a man chases a woman until she catches him. The woman has the ultimate power of saying no. An abused power, yes, but there nonetheless.
Women have become more of the chasers now. Men are developing the right (?) to say no. There is a chapter in the Bible called 'The Virtuous Woman'. Worth reading. Honestly, women can accomplish a hell of a lot more than before, and it's about time.
In short, when I say surrender, I mean fusion of one soul to another. Try and find that in this day and age. Try and find a man and a woman who will gives themselves to each other without any external influences.
'Original Innocence' is next to impossible now.
As I understand it, a man chases a woman until she catches him. The woman has the ultimate power of saying no. An abused power, yes, but there nonetheless.
Women have become more of the chasers now. Men are developing the right (?) to say no. There is a chapter in the Bible called 'The Virtuous Woman'. Worth reading. Honestly, women can accomplish a hell of a lot more than before, and it's about time.
In short, when I say surrender, I mean fusion of one soul to another. Try and find that in this day and age. Try and find a man and a woman who will gives themselves to each other without any external influences.
'Original Innocence' is next to impossible now.
ok so.....im not rich but i have worked really hard for myself to get in a comfortable place in life. got the house.. got the bike, a new truck, jeep, boat etc. it scares me to death that i could enter in to a marriage with someone and after 3 years it doesnt work out...then all of a sudden im selling all these things and giving up half of it to someone for just chilling with me. i mean i have worked really hard to get where i am...blood, sweat and tears.
it is hard to find a woman who has the same and is risking the same. my girlfriend now pushes marriage or brings it up alot. she has been married and divorced twice already. i cant blame her i would want that to if i was a two weeks late on the house and car payment.lol
i think if two poeple really love each other i dont see the need for a piece of paper stating so.
it is hard to find a woman who has the same and is risking the same. my girlfriend now pushes marriage or brings it up alot. she has been married and divorced twice already. i cant blame her i would want that to if i was a two weeks late on the house and car payment.lol
i think if two poeple really love each other i dont see the need for a piece of paper stating so.
Hi !
Yeah there are more of 'role reversals' that we come across nowadays. And it is happening for good. Ultimately the humanity is accepting that there is a masculine & faminine side to every human being- the 'Ying' & the 'Yang'. Unlike few years ago a today's male can choose to be less ambitious & there are quiet a few who would do settle down as 'house-husbands'. ( due to want of any ohter word to get across what i mean).
Saw the movie - "The Fockers"? Dustin Hoffman & Barbara Streisand? That was a cute couple & had successful marriage. Perfectly comfortable with each other.
And yes the females are pursuing the males, who in return are choosing to say 'NO'. But I do find that males tend to mostly say NO (back out)if being directly approached by a female. This thing about the females having to remain 'subtle' & male feeling like the 'initiator' seems to go on. The direct approach from females is still not considered to be a smart.
Yeah there are more of 'role reversals' that we come across nowadays. And it is happening for good. Ultimately the humanity is accepting that there is a masculine & faminine side to every human being- the 'Ying' & the 'Yang'. Unlike few years ago a today's male can choose to be less ambitious & there are quiet a few who would do settle down as 'house-husbands'. ( due to want of any ohter word to get across what i mean).
Saw the movie - "The Fockers"? Dustin Hoffman & Barbara Streisand? That was a cute couple & had successful marriage. Perfectly comfortable with each other.
And yes the females are pursuing the males, who in return are choosing to say 'NO'. But I do find that males tend to mostly say NO (back out)if being directly approached by a female. This thing about the females having to remain 'subtle' & male feeling like the 'initiator' seems to go on. The direct approach from females is still not considered to be a smart.
I was thinking the same thing, Parallax.
i actually had brought that up.....she had said that she would sign one. whether or not she was just humouring me i dont know. i just dont see why if i didnt work out i should leave with less than i came in with.
then a friend of mine told me that if i didnt own certain things out right it might not stand up in court. so im not really sure how that would work. i would definitly check into it if it went toward that.
the whole idea of marriage scares the crap out of me. my brother is on his third divorce and my sister has been divorced once too. it just seems like a losing situation. 😢
then a friend of mine told me that if i didnt own certain things out right it might not stand up in court. so im not really sure how that would work. i would definitly check into it if it went toward that.
the whole idea of marriage scares the crap out of me. my brother is on his third divorce and my sister has been divorced once too. it just seems like a losing situation. 😢
hello cj7!
I'm sure you know this, but there's no rush. It takes a long time to develop a really good relationship, and sometimes we forget how long, "till death do we part" really is. I don't think you should use your brother's experiences as a measure for how well your experience with marriage will be-- but it doesn't hurt to learn from his mistakes.
Also, take my post with a grain of salt-- because I am not married either. However, I'm not scared, I'm just in no rush... nor should you be.
As for pre-nups, I don't know how they work either. If you're really concerned about your personal assets after marriage- then it wouldn't hurt for you and your partner to sit with a lawyer and work through an agreement.
I'm sure you know this, but there's no rush. It takes a long time to develop a really good relationship, and sometimes we forget how long, "till death do we part" really is. I don't think you should use your brother's experiences as a measure for how well your experience with marriage will be-- but it doesn't hurt to learn from his mistakes.
Also, take my post with a grain of salt-- because I am not married either. However, I'm not scared, I'm just in no rush... nor should you be.
As for pre-nups, I don't know how they work either. If you're really concerned about your personal assets after marriage- then it wouldn't hurt for you and your partner to sit with a lawyer and work through an agreement.
Did this help you understand your situation?
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I had no idea what to tell him-- because I'm not married, nor do I necessarily agree that he's as powerless as he claims to be.
But I didn't write this get advice-- more so to ask a question.
Are men overall feeling under appreciated? Are parts of the world moving from a paternal society to a maternal society? Anyone want to talk about this?
-sTD