Pretentiousness In Film

Okay.

Dictionary results are vague as fcuk.

I happened on this forum the other day where people listed movies they thought were pretentious. Flicks like Crash, Magnolia, There Will Be Blood etc were all in there.

How the fcuk is a movie pretentious?! How the fcuk can a movie be pretentious? What does it do to be pretentious?

I gotta know because it seems people take ambition in film to be pretentious. And the above movies were pretty straight forward to me. Multifaceted, sure, but straight forward.

How the fcuk do certain movies SUBTLY try to be something they aren't?

This in't going to cloud my ambition screenwriting wise. I just need to know what the critics could mean in case the day comes were I have to argue for my work.

Posted by satori
oooH! I loved Magnolia and There Will be Blood! I just love PT Anderson! I found nothing pretentious about those, or any of his films at all.

I think some people get insulted by movie makers who try to get people to think in a subtle way or are bold and like you said, ambitious. Unfortunately, I think most people want the same dumbed-down shyt. It might not be any good but at least people aren't threatened by it if they don't "get it".

What I can't stand about some movies is how unrealistic the most of the lives of the characters are. Like every effing Diane Keaton movie has her living in a multi-million dollar house and she has an ambitious dream job and near-perfect family whose few disfunctions are only charming. That's not reality for most people. That's pretentious.

Also, movies like Juno and Away We Go were kind of pretentious if you want to call something pretentious. They are movies for hipsters. They try too hard to be ironic and clever and that's not funny to me.

Pretentiousness to me is anytime it's obvious film characters are trying to be something that is totally out of touch with reality to market to the target audience and not resemble real people.

PT Anderson's characters and storylines are so real to me, I can't see how anyone would call them pretentious.

THANK YOU, Satori. I completely understand 🙂

So it sort of sucks, though. To a certain extent. I mean I understand the concept of something being far removed from reality...

...but isn't that the point of the movies? Escapism?

Because that's what I pay the ticket price for.

Meaning I'd interpret pretentiousness in film as EVERYTHING you said, Satori (characters etc) EXCLUSIVE to films that are OBVIOUSLY trying to make a point.

You know films dealing with serious topics, establishing serious tones and then f**king it all up with unrealistic situations and characters.

So grateful, Satori. The people on those boards didn't seem to know what they were talking about.

Posted by Astrological Aftermath1
prententious? nooo! self indulgent? maybe

Hmmm...

But... to make or write a self indulgent film, wouldn't you have to have a certain amount of clout and celebrity?

Like "Oh, that blah blah blah is always using the same techniques" etc

And... doesn't self indulgence apply more to the directing side of things as opposed to the writing side?

Ugh my head hurts lol

Posted by Hypnotic—
lol..
this is a pretentious thread..

😄

Posted by Astrological Aftermath1
oh your talking about the writing side to things? then yeah your right i think lol

Hey, writing can be self indulgent too, though. I just think you'd have to have work already published/produced for the critics to compare your most recent to for self indulgence.

I think...

zombieland was pretentious. the first 15-20 min were ok. the rest was an insult to b-movies and zombie flicks.

i thought it was going to be some high-brow, intelligent take on the zombie genre and in the end i realized, NO! i like cheesy. i like that they have moderate budgets. i like that the plot is simple...people eat people. and i like that "advanced" is dog eat people. sean of the dead is humorous. land of the dead is ironic. night of the living dead is classic!!!!!!! i didn't need some stupid film with 90 min of people NOT eating people. hmmph...i'm still mad about it.

crash was GAR-BAGE! if you want to watch really good movies, do a search on IMBD for movie releases that occurred a year before. if you're having a movie night, rent 11.14. it came out before crash, stars hillary swank, patrick dempsey and a lot of other people i totally forget about. less pretentious and far more engaging. remember...it came first.

Posted by &2gedanow

How the fcuk do certain movies SUBTLY try to be something they aren't?

Well let me put it this way. Never write a movie for other people, if you're gonna write something write it for yourself. A personal movie can never be pretentious! What is pretentious is when these so called independent filmmakers attempt at something supposedly personal, but what they are in fact doing is making something they've seen others do. It's like when you're a kid and pick up that camera for the very first time. What do you do? You make a horror film with your friends of course, like the ones you've seen TV. And when you attempt at something like that as a filmmaker of "meaningfull" films, you can bet your ass on it's gonna be pretentious. What's the point in making a "deep, menaingful" film if you're gonna use already used material? Go make TRANSFORMERS 5 instead, at least there you are not supposed to come up with anything of your own.

I've recently seen a movie called Brown Bunny , probably the most barked-on and barfed-on independent American movie of the last decade. Appearently it's 'PRETENTIOUS'. This comes from the same people who probably gave Wes Anderson and Paul Thomas' goofy dramas top rating. Yet I fail to see what's pretentious about it. It never plays cheap tricks on the audience, it never attempts to fit in... It's a movie that exists on its own terms. Pretentious is when you ask for audience approval while trying to do your own thing.

Anyway, that's my take on pretentious. But there are pretentious movies that I like, that are different in a good way but sort of attempting to seem more important than they are. Take a look at the works of Todd Solondz, you'll see what I mean. He's like those Anderson guys only with more guts! Pretentious? Sure. Intresting? Hell yeah!

Posted by tubbyscubby
zombieland was pretentious. the first 15-20 min were ok. the rest was an insult to b-movies and zombie flicks.

Hmm...I haven't seen it, but how can any B-movie be pretentious if it's obviousely not setting out to be more than what it already is?

^^^that's the point. it's not exactly a b-movie. it was too smart for its own good. it was a zombie movie that had about 30 min of zombie scenes...and that's being generous.

I just watched this movie called "The Nines" and lord knows what that movie is about. "Syriana" is another movie that I didn't get.

Well both Anderson fellas are obviousely 'personal' filmmakers and I respect that, but it seems that after a while in the spotlight they are just repeating themselves because it's what works with the audience. How about starting fresh? Also the themes and the people in their movies don't really strike a chord with me, but hey... I'm a miserable motherfucker and I like dwelling around the grey areas of life, which is why such a "boring and pretentious" movies like Brown Bunny worked on me. But seriousely, if you're gonna see it be prepared for a big emotional NOTHING! You'll be filling out all the blanks yourself. And that's why I love it, it's self-reflective somehow. Like sitting through a therapy session, "hmm, and what do YOU think that means?"

Take a look at Buffalo '66 too while you're at it, I can't imagine you won't like it. It's from the same guy who made the bunny pic. But I haven't seen Punch Drunk Love yet, I can't stand Adam Sandler. I'll see it the next time it aires on TV... and I'll think of Satori 😉 haha

Posted by FeistyAquarian
Pretentious isn't a word I would think to describe any movie...It just seems rather odd to stick that label to a movie.

If you're a serious film buff and have seen as much shit as I have, trust me labeling a movie as "pretentious" feels very good deep inside. A tingly sensation, like butterflies in your stomach. Actually it's like being in love 😄

Posted by enfant_terrible

Posted by FeistyAquarian
Pretentious isn't a word I would think to describe any movie...It just seems rather odd to stick that label to a movie.

If you're a serious film buff and have seen as much shit as I have, trust me labeling a movie as "pretentious" feels very good deep inside. A tingly sensation, like butterflies in your stomach. Actually it's like being in love 😄

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LOL! 😉 I will have to do that then just os I can get that feeling!

I find the critics of the arts in general, rather pretentious.

Posted by eden 3
nib it does pertain to pretending which we all know means attempting to be something u r not.

as for writing for u...uumm maybe if ur writing a novel where it is a clearly defined genre that will appeal to certain groups when it comes to a screenplay u must go for mass appeal or popularity until u can establish urself as a great scribe. any producer will tell u the same.

writing for urself from a very personal level is beautiful but finding people to back ur own agenda is the toughest aspect of making films.

EVERYTHING has already been done u just have to make it ur own...if ur a pretentious filmaker ur probably going to make pretentious films cuz ur writing from that place...on the other hand u could create an important piece that is ruined by bad casting, performances, editing, directing, etc...

there r just as many reasons for a film to fail as there r for it to succeed.

but, it's painful to c a film achieve unwarranted status or success

Perfectly understood.

It's one hell of a conundrum, though. At one end it makes sense because what's the point of making something which you clearly want to be appreciated if nobody appreciates it?

On the other end how do you KNOW what will be appreciated?

I've come to realise that in everything in the business of showing (sports, music, movies, art), freedom of expression only becomes attainable when you achieve status.

So I'm gonna stick to writing SVE movies... you know, movies with sex violence and big explosions? (I'm kidding, but they'll have some elements of universal appeal, though).

i'll be as pretentious as i wanna be. i like my zombie movies with zombies damnit!

I'm not very into zombie flicks but Return of the living Dead (1985) is truly a masterpiece!! 😄

Posted by satori

Posted by MsPisces.
I find the critics of the arts in general, rather pretentious.

People who seriously love art, whether it be movies, music, visual art or fashion, are bound to have opinions about them. Sports fans are the same the way that they judge teams and players. Anytime a person is passionate about anything they are going to develop strong likes and dislikes about it.

But what it all really comes down to is personal preference, nothing more. As long as you and others don't take it too seriously, I think talking about the things in life you enjoy and what makes something so appealing to you is a great thing.

But like they say, "Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one." 🙂

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Yea I know, but my point was, I don't find the art itself pretentious, I find many of the opinions of those who judge the art pretentious, as they are assuming to understand what the artists intent was. I realize the importance of interpretation in art, but some of these artsy fartsy folk can really get on my damn nerves lol

Or perhaps it all evades me...I realize that can be the case too, but man, have you ever gone to an art gallery or a play with one of those snooty artsy types? Their interpretations can be so far fetched and pretentious, its repulsive to listen to them.