The perils of not being a churchie.

Are any of you churchies?
By that I mean christians, catholics, etc. I guess not because by your believing in astrology goes against the popular notion of christianity. You're actually pagans or agnostics.

Well I noticed that people who grow up with support of churches have more positive mindsets, due to a supportive and good group of friends. Now which bunch of people go to church and are actually baddies? Those'll drop out after one or two 'sin cleansing' sessions of gospel.

So, the perils of not being a churchie is that the people you gravitate towards are also not churchies, and they're usually tainted by society's ills.

I wish I grew up with the church, but I am a natural heretic and cannot stand any dogma let alone attend sermons or songs I dont believe in. So what to do?

Would you rather grow up with an instant group of supportive cell mates or be cast out to sea to mingle with the secular fish?

Yeah Eden I concur. Actually they can be shitty but they always have a cell group to forgive their sins. And dont you hate it when they have an instant throng of friends who under the name of jesus help hem out whenever? I agree its a grounding base on fear, but its like they put their blame all on the devil and god cleanses them all. I dont care for that butter, but its not fair, I want church sistas too!!!

lol

I think next time if I have kids I'll encourage them to join a church. I'd do the hypocrisy thing, like, nevermind about me, you should go because its best for you. I think church children grow up healthier overall. church is essential for teens towards adulthood.

Posted by BellaBulleautiful
I quit going to church a few years ago because I just don't seem to fit in anywhere,but I still follow Christ.astrology does not go against that for me.I used to think it did, but now I realize God made the heavens and everything in them for a reason.those planets are up there moving because they serve a purpose.

I agree Bella. Bits of astrology was actually removed from the bible. my fave quote was "there's a time for everything unde the sun.. etc", that is a reference to astrology.

No its not a bash christianity ploy. basically i dont have the resources to tear down religion.
its a good structure. I wish I joined a church. christians are better people overall because they have a good guiding hand.

Posted by BellaBulleautiful
I want to be a part of a church,we are supposed to spend time with people with our beliefs, but I don't look and act like a typical Christian so the women are threatened by me I guess.
I wish I'd have stayed in and raised my kids in one though.

ya well because u believe in astrology. thats a step above them who abide strictly by the bible.

That is if they have parents who provide structure. Alot of teens and young adults grow up away from parental support and guidance, or their parents dont know how/ too busy to impart values.

Doing well in life - by that you mean successful?

From the people who moved in and out of my life, those who follow religion or philosophy: muslim, christianity or buddhism are better people overall.
people need structure when they grow up. not everyone can or bother to seek it for themselves.

Alot of people, while growing up do not naturally have the sources to make themselves good people. They tend to follow their social groups and peers. Thats why I mention its better for majority oftheir peers to be church people..

"You can hide behind it, you can blame it and you can credit it, but I do believe a strong moral foundation is developed from a very basic human nature."

I disagree.................. schools and institutions develop a person's character and build their foundation of intelligence. People need structure to develop properly.

"I also find atheists/agnostics in general to be very open minded people who are willing to listen to another's prespective. I haven't seen that with religious people. The close mindedness is suffocating sometimes. I know I can be that way too and I struggle with it."

Open minded yes.. but religion or at least a religious philosophy offers a basic guideline for behavior....

Basically, you didn't get my original intent. Its not really the doma, but the quality of church peoples' characters are better overall than those without.
Atheists on the other hand, make a concerted effort to hone their own charcater because they think theyre the highest power there is over their own lives, so they live it the best they can.

For the rest of the lost souls (dont tell me you havent been there, as a kid upwards).. a community is best. church still rules because theyre such shiny happy people.

"Discipline comes from within."

But strategies need to be taught.

"happy faces aren't always happy people from within. "

Thats beside the point. church teaches people how to cope with their pain.

"Religion is blind. "

So is alot of things.

"A missing parent is a missing parent. Religious or not."

parents need not be religious for their children to go to church.
And indulgent parents usually produce horrid kids. Parents are beside the point here..

there is a crucial point in time when a childs personality that is developing sets. once they go under bad influences, theres no turning back. it becomes the blurprint for the rest of their lives. it doesnt mean a non religious parent can have a non rebellious child.

Id say that rebellion is much more inherent in a personality than discipline.

Schools dont give out exams or tests for nothing. thats to help studets build discipline.
the point is the structure and the teachings.
teens tend to move from parents towards their peers. thats why its better that most of their peers be church people. Not to make them religious, BUT as a community of support.

alot of church goers arent all that religious. they just go for the friendship. they need to be reminded everytime how important it is to follow the bible.
so my point is not religion perse, but the influence.....

but I can understand if you vehemently disagree because you did not enjoy your religius upbringing. I had no religious upbringing so who am I to say?

I was just venting after reading someone's christianity infused blog.

Posted by sb_cap
"Id say that rebellion is much more inherent in a personality than discipline."

Not really. Its just been made out that way. But really I think discipline is something that does come from within. Because if you cant do something with discipline without someone looking over your shoulder( or within a structure), then you were never disciplined to begin with. Just scared of losing good will of your peers really.

you say that because you're capricorn. Discipline comes naturally to you. For other signs, it does not come so naturally. dreamy pisces and lazy libra can attest to that somewhat.
fear and discipline can interact yes, but fear does not mean lack of discipline.

I just think that overall, its still better to be brought up in a more moralistically structured environment. At least if there's rebellion, there's still something to fall back on when things go awry.

People can also be forced to be disciplined. through punishments and rewards..

But overall, we choose the way we live. I never would be a church person, I already knew that. And yes, the grass is greener on the other side.. but if we realy wanted the other side, we would go there already.....

Posted by sb_cap


"you say that because you're capricorn. Discipline comes naturally to you. "


😄

I wasn't really thinking about myself but my brother and sister. I mean my sister, my brother and I have had the same upbringing, yet only my sister and my brother ( water sign and water/air cusp) have the self discipline to master something or anything. I never did really. My sister mastered the piano and my brother the guitar.

Yet I never really rebelled either. 🙂

That could be due to alot of factors. Are you the middle child or the youngest?
Did they have strong neptune balanced by venus and saturn in their chart?
Astrology people are naturally rebellious, though, abit more so than most.

My christian friends who genuinely believe in their religion have the happiest lives. Not the half baked kind.. but those who'd say they'd marry Christ before their spouse, yes, those. They're the most conventional type of people who marry at the correct age and go to church every sunday..


Also, you dont see murderers/ killers who are church goers..
basically life's so different for the secular and the religious.. as they say, its all in the mind. what if you could change places for a time period?

...
..
.

""you dont see murderers/ killers who are church goers"

That Wichita serial killer was a very prominant member of his church from what I remember reading."

What I mean is, from statistics it will be less likely... like maybe 1/20 s. killers are church goers. even less.

"Middle child. :/"

Okay, well from texts it says the Eldest has the most responsibility, whilst the youngest is most visible. The middle child is usually the most free to do what they want.

"I dont believe in astrology either. I'm just here because its fun."

Bah thats what you all say. Thing is, you're here cause you're drawn to it. I've been gospelizing astrology to my friends when I first got into it, but most of them were interested enough never to even buy an astrology book. And highly unlikely they'd even come here. See? 😄

Posted by sb_cap
"What I mean is, from statistics it will be less likely... like maybe 1/20 s. killers are church goers. even less."

Unless there has been some serious studies done, the jury's still out there on that.

Thats just like saying you need a lawyer to prove a household incident. I'd think its logical that church goers are less likely to be deranged mentalists. I dont need "serious" studies to prove that.

And I sense you're really anti religion; "gospelizing" was just a play on words. But I do like to practice on my friends.

Posted by BellaBulleautiful
Dennis Rader pretended to be a human being.he also pretended to be a "christian" it was all a cover.and it worked for a very ,very long time.he's neither a Christian nor a human being.

ya well I agree. I wanted to mention he was not really a christian but its subjective since he goes to church.

Posted by BellaBulleautiful
I don't argue about Christianity or politics anymore....neither side ever actually wins and it never opens any eyes.

I think it is also a personal choice whether you'd wish to go to church or take sides.
Actually, my thread was not to argue about religion. It doesssnt bother me that much. I just like how some of 'em turned out. Im not even religious.

I'm just saying that I noticed the people in my life who are religious or follow a spiritual philosophy overall have better characters.
That's my personal view on things.

And thanks, both of you for taking them way out of context to support your own personal agendas!

Oh, and hard scientific facts are your forte? Don't hang out in a pseudoscientific forum"just for fun". It's like going to church without believing in the religion.

Posted by BellaBulleautiful

Posted by sb_cap

Posted by spica

Posted by sb_cap
"What I mean is, from statistics it will be less likely... like maybe 1/20 s. killers are church goers. even less."

Unless there has been some serious studies done, the jury's still out there on that.

Thats just like saying you need a lawyer to prove a household incident. I'd think its logical that church goers are less likely to be deranged mentalists. I dont need "serious" studies to prove that.

And I sense you're really anti religion; "gospelizing" was just a play on words. But I do like to practice on my friends.

I'm not anti religion. I'm anti- establishment. I'm anti -" because you dont go to church/temple/mosque you are somehow deranged and dont have a fulfilling life".

It isn't "logical" to conclude that people who go to a place of worship are somehow less likely to be violent. It's an assumption promoted by establishments that aren't based on facts.

I agree with that as well.

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And stop agreeing to prove your point on another issue, or rather, an issue to which you are also torn. It just seems, erm.. dishonest.

Posted by BellaBulleautiful
I really thought I was supporting yours.......

I never thought so. I don't need supporters.

Posted by BellaBulleautiful
you seemed to be ok as long as you thought I was totally on your side.....

well I knew you weren't. why would you be anyway? except to support your own agenda?

By the way, I dont start topics to stir crap up. You stirred your own by dredging up your religious status. Sorry it upset you - cause it doesnt upset me as much. Religion is not very much tied up on me.

I'm just bouncing opinions. Who knew its get so dogmatic?

Why would you support my agenda when you don't know anything about me?
It's just aplatform to voice your own biases for and against religion.
At least I know both of yours now.

You win, kay? I'm off.

Bye. I just don't like nasty discussions. Apparently it happens with earth signs........? oh nevermindddddddddd.

Posted by Prince_Pisces
I think that i should create my own church 🙂 where instead of a painting or mural of Jesus or whatever, it can be one of me instead LOL!!! Id be very interested in that lol. 🙂

Ya well, why don't you do that? Those that wont preclude sexual preferences.

Posted by BellaBulleautiful

Posted by spica
Why would you support my agenda when you don't know anything about me?
It's just aplatform to voice your own biases for and against religion.
At least I know both of yours now.

You win, kay? I'm off.

you said you didn't have an agenda...I took you at your word.my bad,I'm sorry?

click to expand

Well BellaB, I figured there was no point in arguing with you anymore. Your argument makes little sense, but is based more on the taurean type of sliding and evasion. Look, my original thought of your post was that YOU were aginst church bashers. But SB_CAP is a huge church basher and the fact that you Amened her every sentence is not only confusing, but based very little on logic. You're just bashng my opinion. which is fine by me.

Posted by sb_cap
Ugh!

Please. No one is making it personal. You made a topic. I disagreed. End of story. Bella thought you had some valid points and she thought I made some valid points.

And I didn't bring personal agendas here. Just some personal experiences.


The only person who is being dogmatic is you.


And they say earth signs aren't flexible.

*rolls eyes*

As for you, budderfly, you're being ridiculous. Uptight, insistent, authoritative. Well, I cant fault you, you're Capricorn. Notice, please that you never really did address my original intent of the post, but you brought up your own agenda on christianity and argued on that. Basically, I mentioned this "discussion" was an ugly one because my opposition party used more like force and er.. whatyacall silly fugged uo logic to prove their point, which to me is pretty much moot.

Oh, and you can loll back your eyes, cause they're not moving from your inflexible dogmatic stance.

Posted by BellaBulleautiful

Posted by spica
Why would you support my agenda when you don't know anything about me?
It's just aplatform to voice your own biases for and against religion.
At least I know both of yours now.

You win, kay? I'm off.

you said you didn't have an agenda...I took you at your word.my bad,I'm sorry?

click to expand

Sorry? does this even make sense? I don't think you even understand your sentence. Deliberate fog up, eh?

"I'm not anti religion. I'm anti- establishment. I'm anti -" because you dont go to church/temple/mosque you are somehow deranged and dont have a fulfilling life"."

1. If you're so anti establishment as you proclaim, you'd break our of school and be a hippie already. Why still conform to educational and family structure? Hmmm? its ridiculous when you use that as your supporting stance when its just a nice concept not actually put into practice.

2. I'm anti - "because you dont go to church/temple/mosque you are somehow deranged and dont have a fulfilling life"

Very nice sentence taken absolutely out of context. I never said that ; you used it as a straw man fallacy to support your stance. How sneaky.



You win; but my original opinion still stands.. because essentially it has not been addressed in the 'discussion'.

"what has really got me confused,is I was never arguing...."

You were never arguing, just throwing U-turns and sort of taking sides here and there. Oh, and disapproving too.

Nevermind. maybe this shows an elemental difference.

Oh, yeah, and my meds are those happy pills on my avatar. Want some?

Posted by BellaBulleautiful
Oh,I get it.yeah,I'm against Christian bashing....churches are just buildings.
but sb is right,a person can go to church everyday and still be a bad person.it's what's in the heart that transforms,not where the behind is perched. 🙂

Well if you read carefully, sb was arguing or rather, disagreeing with my stance because she does not approve of religion. Its not the building.

General observations are just like statistics. Thats all I am saying. Generally, spiritually inclined or religious people have better characters because they were brought up under a good structure.. especially in their formative years.
Sb asserted that it is up to the parents, and not churches. But then again, that was not my point. She turned this (u did as well) whole thing into an argument about religion which was really not my point at all.

My main point is not the religion in itself, but more the community and their teachings.. for a secular person, teachings, christian, buddhist or hindu, are just adapted as life philosophies.. nothing more.

Posted by BellaBulleautiful
I thought I was the Christian and you were the agnostic...? *scratches head*

thing is, if we really we'rent arguing religion, it doesnt matter who's the agnostic and who's the christian. SB was anti religion in her stance, but then I am not religious, yet she strongly disagreed with my stance as if I was propagating religion. That in itself stems from her own issues and thats where I mentioned personal agendas.

Shouldn't even say this but...going to!!
Why is it that most of Spica's posts end up in arguments with Spica being nasty to people for expressing their opinions?
Just a thought I had when reading all this...
🙂 (Hi Spica!)

"But SB_CAP is a huge church basher"

Huh? When did this happen? I got from her post that she can see both sides of the fence. Not exactly bashing to me, but I'm just a selfish Aries who walks over everyone 🙂

Posted by FeistyAquarian

Posted by spica
Are any of you churchies?
By that I mean christians, catholics, etc. I guess not because by your believing in astrology goes against the popular notion of christianity. You're actually pagans or agnostics.

Well I noticed that people who grow up with support of churches have more positive mindsets, due to a supportive and good group of friends. Now which bunch of people go to church and are actually baddies? Those'll drop out after one or two 'sin cleansing' sessions of gospel.

So, the perils of not being a churchie is that the people you gravitate towards are also not churchies, and they're usually tainted by society's ills.

I wish I grew up with the church, but I am a natural heretic and cannot stand any dogma let alone attend sermons or songs I dont believe in. So what to do?

Would you rather grow up with an instant group of supportive cell mates or be cast out to sea to mingle with the secular fish?

I'm Catholic and I still believe in Astrology 🙂 Who's gonna care that much anyway?? lol I don't go to church every week or anything but at the same time, I do love the traditions (for the most part) of the Church. Just to see what it would be like if I didn't do anything churchy, I didn't participate in Lent last Easter season and I wished I would have. If anything, it teaches you some self-discipline. I also want to get married in the church and raise my future children in it too, though I wouldn't say that I am religious but I do feel like the morals you teach your children can be a positive impact throughout their life, as it was for me.

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I agree. I also mentioned about having the spiritual commune of church is because there are mostly positive energies there. Even if there are a few bad eggs, mostly the influence is good. And evil/ negative energies have less power over someone under the umbrella of a safe ground, than when they do by themselves. Even if someone is agnostic and they lead a non crooked life, they're very very susceptible to bad influences and energies. It is not easy to combat those when you don't have the tools. I have personally seen and experienced very rampant and evil energies, but mostly because
1. the perpetrator has no moral compass, not religious etc (THOUGH brought up by religious parents; but didnt follo

w)
2. the 'victim' has not enough spiritual/social support and therefore fell under dire influences, sometimes even without realizing it.

Growing up secular and pretty much anti dogma and religion, I can appreciate it so much more now, how the church/instituition actually hones and supports a person's character and wellbeing.

I agree with you, too that they can turn cultish and its up to you to discern which to join.

"I also want to get married in the church and raise my future children in it too, though I wouldn't say that I am religious but I do feel like the morals you teach your children can be a positive impact throughout their life, as it was for me."

Go you; I feel the same way regarding it's positive impact.