Dating: It's Not Exclusive Until It Is (Page 2)

Yes tubby condoms and a solid pre-nupt is one of the better options...I wouldn't even live with a man without a pre-nuptial agreement.

@tiki, i know right. fish is worried about a woman going after his money. how about there's increasing probability that a woman will end up paying patrimony in a divorce.

we're going to and graduating from college at ever increasing rates while men, of all races, are falling by the wayside. we're also seeking more advanced degrees. if the trend continues, you won't have to worry about a woman wanting you to get down on one knee.

Posted by thefish
I'm not sure if its being primitive or just having bad morals. Its basic honesty im talking about.... Ive been honest with my girlfriend from the start. Its not my way or the highway. Just as a woman has the choice whether a man becomes a father or not the man also has the choice to choose whether a woman becomes a mother. I contradict because my instinct is to settle down and become a dad but its just not the right choice these days. Its a set up for disaster. If the scales were ever to become completely equal where custody and parenting are concerned i would reconsider. But the balance is far to the feminine.

are you latex intolerant? your entire argument crumbles when you come to the realization that you have a choice. wear a condom. get a vasectomy...they're reversible. freeze some of your tadpoles just in case. no one is forcing you to have unprotected sex and if you choose to do so, suffer the consequences.

i personally know of 3 men who have custody of their children. in the case of one, he has two sons each with different mothers. a man who wants to exercise his full parental rights can do so. pay for a good attorney and you don't have to worry about coming up short. but most men don't exercise this right. they'd rather sit and moan about not being able to do this/that. it would seem to me that if your children were important to you, you'd work four jobs, borrow from friends/fam, max out your credit cards, downgrade your car, do whatever it takes to cover your attorney's fees if it meant guaranteeing more than every other weekend with your child.

your gf is naive. i feel sorry for her because you know you're being selfish. and your economics professor is an idiot. prostitution is the world's oldest profession. men have been finding ways to wiggle out of the confines of marriage since the beginning of time. aint nothing new here dude. men are generally immature, self-absorbed, selfish, self-gratifying pricks.

Thefish I would tell men that I'm dating, I never said I had an issue with honesty and full disclosure, I think A muse libra said she wouldn't disclose her dating status until the issue came up, I feel were both very much willing to reveal ourselves with men. If I ward off a man that's okay, I'm in no hurry to keep a man and I can respect his choice to keep moving.

You have some fears you need to address but that's your life, your problem if it is even considered a problem, you think your taking the easy way out but the very thing you fear will not go away until you address it but hey it's your life to do with it what you want.

If you want to let others and socieity control your decisions and control your happiness well in my eyes that's a cop out, that's just a lazy lame excuse because your unsure how to have what he want and protect yourself as you create a life for yourself. As much as it's a risk there are so many legal loops that would protect you and protect your kids if you had any.

Your girlfriend is fine with it now but when her maternal clock starts ticking all logic goes out the window, she won't even consider not taking a risk, her biological make-up will be quite irrational and ready, she won't give a shit about your fears when those maternal instincts kick in, she will want what she wants because her body and her mind and hormones says it's time to have it, she may find ways to ward it off for a bit longer but the inevitable end result is her leaving you if you don't man up and come to some kind of compromise.

Posted by thefish
But i guess i was brought up in a still functioning two parent family. I wouldnt date a woman who has children or is already divorced as i see it as a huge failure on a personal level. They made a commitment for life with someone by bearing a child and or marrying a man. If i was female i would see a divorced man with kids as a failure as well. Not saying they cant redeem themselves. But if they cant take something like kids or marriage seriously whats to think they can manage small stuff?

I have a great job and im very supportive of her dreams goals and aspirations. A really well done prenup would be a possibility i suppose. Its something i would really have to consider and discuss with her. She does yoga and massage with pregnant women. So as time wears on.... Oh my.

The more and more you talk I am beginning to wonder if your the un-evolved one...men who have kids out of divorce are failures OMG give me an aspirin LOL.

i change my mind. men aren't pricks. some are man-whores though.

Posted by tubbyscubby
i change my mind. men aren't pricks. some are man-whores though.

Well you know the way men multiple date and the way women multiple date are polar opposites d:

A huge majority of women hate dating especially multiple dating, would much rather meet one man and stick with that...

baaaaaaaaaaaaasically.

i do agree with fish though. ultimately, if women want more or for things to change, we have to alter the rules of the game in our favor.

this is why i'm advocating that single women refrain from having sex in the year 2012. we don't need fire and brimstone to shut this shyte down! imagine how quickly men would get in line if women united around this single principle. imagine how much power and control we have in our pleasure centres.

if only, if only....i'd start damn revolution alright. by 2013 have dude's running to the chapel.

either that or there would be a dramatic increase in the gay/lesbian population.

fish you are an e-talking contradiction. this has nothing to do with marriage. you just don't want to financially provide for your children. which i would like to point out to you is a reality that has nothing to do with "current times."

just admit that you would much rather die old wrinkly and alone surrounded by money and cats.

if i was going to die wrinkly and alone i would choose dogs over cats tho. Just for future referral. =D

fish - you're unjustified because you presume that the courts will deny you joint custody. the courts of yesteryear may have defaulted to the mother. that is increasingly changing. a father who wants to have a more vital role in his child's life in exchange for paying NO child support can broker that deal. in such cases, it may be that one parent carry the child on the health insurance, that they split the fees for extra-curricular activities.

as tiki said, you have legal protection. just because the men you know have chosen not to exercise their rights doesn't mean the rights don't exist.

if you want a particular arrangement, you can get it. tell any woman you end up with that a prenup is mandatory if marriage were to occur. the prenup will cover everything from start to finish. that way, it doesn't have to be you and rover.

but if you and rover is what you want, i think you should set a time line on your relationships....especially if you know the women you date want children. either that or you need to start dating cougars. chances are they don't want any more kids and won't need your money either.

and on that note, i'm off to the gym....

Yeah it is something to think about and its a good point. Cougars are still pretty far out of my age range. Ill stick with my young lioness for now.

@thefish - when you first brought up your stance regarding mariage, I honestly thought it sounded so clinical. It's scientific, you're using statistics to protect your heart from venturing into an unknown, albeit risky territory. I don't blame you - you have a realistic concept of human relationships and their failures. However, the heart doesn't always adhere to the logical side of our minds.

It's an interesting fact that women and men with more education are less likely to get married at a young age. They are less likely to get married at all, but if they do, the majority of them do so in their 30's.

Those with a high school education and less - or just some college, are more likely to get married at a young age, in their early to mid-twenties.

Statistically, those who marry later in life have a better chance at success. The rates of success are much higher than those who marry at a younger age. My point is, your 50% rate is skewed data coming from a HUGE pool of information - it needs to be broken down if you're to be truly clinical in your approach at understanding - and living from them.

You seem like a smart, intelligent, caring person. But you're concept of your statistics is skewed to allow yourself to believe something. You obviously need to rely on this clinical breakdown of love and family and decision to keep on - to develop relationships that are half-hearted. To convince yourself that you won't really care if your girlfriend moves on for another man.

This coming from a man who wants to be the only man in her life!

I don't think you're entirely wrong, not at all. But the reason your statements read so contradictoraly is that you are not really convinced of them yourself, and you're not convincing me either.

I also agree that those you date deserve to know if someone is multiple dating. However, in the tender, fledging beginnings- so wrought with chance confusion and disentigration - broaching the subject is playing with fire.

I imagine a senario like this - I am currently dating (not sleeping) with a guy who I have a lighthearted, fun, casual relationship with. I go out with some friends one evening and meet somebody. We exchange phone numbers - as I am NOT single and I am NOT my dating-buddy's girlfiend - do I feel guilty about this?? I am NOT allowed to give my number to somebody of interest, to see if maybe I find HIM more alluring?

And, to your logic, even if I know WHAT I want, how do I know the man I just handed my digits over to is HIM? How do I know my casual dating buddy is HIM?

Many many many men have your attitude toward commitment and marriage. But most of the ones I date shy away, harcore, from developing a truly intimate relationship. A relationship of relaince and respect and caring. That is what scares them most, from what I've found.

I stand by my choices, I won't take myself off the market and keep my phone number or my Thursday night from somebody until I am truly intimately involved with someone who mutually respects and cares about me enough to call me his girlfriend and treat me as such.

oh - and in that senario, am I supposed to go up to my dating buddy and say "hey - I totally gave this guy my phone number last night. I'm hoping he calls, do you mind??"

In my opinion, unless a true intimacy has evolved, there is no easy way to say that. It's going to cause jealousy and anger and seem like I'm playing games, right? Wouldn't you take offense to that? I don't understand how to blurt out that I date other people, that this isn't a one-on-one thing (UNTIL IT IS).

How would you recommend a girl say a thing like that? And when? Tiki...do you know how to do this?


---I've found that very naturally, when the man begins to realize he likes you, he asks. He puts it plainly, and then I respond plainly. In my experience, the casual dating goes on the same way for a little while and either dissolves or he begins to get more serious.

At the point he is more serious, I then have an option to decide if I like him BEST, if I want him MOST. It's very liberating, much better than feeling the desperate girl just waiting for somebody to pick me, chose me, want me. It feels more real to me, this way....

A muse a libra I think the way you have chosen to date is absolutely fabulous because it works for you, you don't owe any one man anything until he's ready to claim you as his wife, I feel the way you have chosen to deal with your dating life is actually very attractive and prosperous and will only get better as you grow and become more conscious of your love life and your absolutely right, you don't have to sit up feeling desperate over a man only because your out there being open and available to other men that may want more than say what XYZ guys that you currently date wants. You can't force a man to be your Mr. Right, he has to want to be that for you and if he's not wanting it then why sit there waiting for him to change his mind, how frustrating is that to sit there begging for love and commitment as so many women find themselves doing and many women that date one man also end up investing a lot of time and energy on a douchebag because she has no one else around and she has that fear I will be alone mentality, I find dating more than one man destroys that fear.

Men that are smart will assume your dating already because most likely they are serial dating as well and as long as you are honest that your dating status is single and currently dating, most men will know what that means and if you lose a guy because he doesn't want you to date multiple men but yet he's not really offering you anything then how is that a loss for you?

Most dates never go beyond the first date, if you get to a 2nd or 3rd date, that's usually when the issue of dating comes up and it's okay to say I'm currently dating a few guys and open to meeting new people until I'm taken off the market, men understand that attitude, well a mature man will because most of these men live by that same dating code, they are single until married, a huge amount of men have live in girlfriends, have girlfriends and still look for a better option, still date, still flirt, being a man's girlfriend isn't a secure deal, it's temporary and it's still not in a womans best interest to give her whole self away before marriage if that's what she wants. That's the elephant in the room that most women want to avoid that even if she gives a man gf/bf relationship that he's still looking for better or looking for an out or he's stalling so he can stay in the gf/bf status box.

My opinion is different from everyone elses, I believe a woman is single until she's married, I don't believe in gf/bf.

If you date smart, you will get what you want, you will eventually get the man that wants to be your dream man but the women that don't date smart tend to settle for the man that shows up.

"Set the ground rules from the start -- let each man know that you're not dating him exclusively. If you don't, then even if you're overwhelmingly discreet, you're still a snake -- and that kind of behavior gives you a bad name and vibe. There's absolutely nothing wrong with casual dating, especially if you're not yet ready to settle down. In fact, it's probably a very wise decision to experience a lot of different men until one becomes a standout. But be up front about it instead of sneaking around behind their backs.Of course, by being honest from the get-go, you run the risk of turning off a lot of potentials, but at least the ones who are cool about your program will know it going in and can never find fault with your behavior."


Thefish puhleeze we have already said our piece on revealing our dating habits, why in the hell do you keep making it seem like we have a problem revealing that, are you not reading the post or what? I have said I reveal my dating habits, a muse libra has also said the same...let it go already LOL

Awake read my statement again please...I said if a woman date smart she will eventually meet the man that WANTS to be her dream man....I'm fully aware there is no such thing as a typical dream man but there are men that want to be the best he can be for his future wife and don't mind being a woman's dream man if he's truly has the right intentions. We are deserving of the best all of us, male and females, I wish men would stop with the BS about women feeling they are deserving, if she feels she is deserving then she equally feels the man is deserving too or she wouldn't have selected him or even showed any sort of commitment to be involved and interested in that particular man for that fact. It's a sign of respect and honor to be selected and approved of by our mates.

I stand by my statement, she's single until she's married, that's my point of view and you have yours, we are not required to agree with one another.

Men have this ME ME ME mentality as well, look at thefish and many of his college mates and friends, all about self, he has a thousand reasons why marriage is obsolete for men, that's a pretty selfish attitude as well but it's his way of expressing himself at this point in his life.

It's a matter of what each person wants and what each person wants can be manifested, if a man doesn't want to get married well his life will reflect that, if a man wants to get married and be his future wife's everything, her dream man well his life will reflect that by his statement to get married and move forward and build a life together with someone.

Any woman assuming love and relationships are owed is carrying around an old and antiquated attitudes....All this she must prove she's worth a commitment/marriage is childish and immature, a real woman, a woman of a certain age with high self esteem won't buy that BS. A woman doesn't have to prove her worth, she is has already proven her worth by standing by a man's side, treating him like a king even before marriage and if that's not good enough...C'est la vie is my motto

Thefish I'm not arguing this issue, to each his or her own, if how you choose to deal with women or this particular woman works for you then I say great, wonderful, hope it works out for you and you 2 can move forward in life together...If your girlfriend is happy with how things are right now today that's really all that matters, there will come a day when the hard stuff comes up because that's natural for women to want to move to the next level in relationships and if you don't she will most likely wise up and move on but for now you have time to enjoy her without the pressure and who knows maybe some day you will wake up and realize she's the one, she's your forever girl or maybe not...time will tell

Posted by thefish
I just think your approach to dating is hollow and will bear little happiness in the long term for you. But your choice is held high in your regard and dedication deserves respect even in the face of adversity. I still wish you luck with your endeavour.

My opinion is only given for your consideration and not as dictation.

what's more hollow than deciding before you meet a person, before you say hello, before you form a bond and know their heart, their worth or how you two relate, that you will NEVER marry them, that you will NEVER have children with them and no matter what your feelings are for them, you will NEVER change?

your scenario and the way you choose to approach dating and love is miserable. honesty does not = happiness and it would behoove your gf to get a clue. unfortunately she's young and as the book says, you're just robbing her of her pretty.

LOL@your scenario and the way you choose to approach dating and love is miserable. honesty does not = happiness and it would behoove your gf to get a clue.

Bingo!!

Tubby If she's as pretty as he claims she is the inevitable is bound to happen, a masculine male will OUT MAN him, you know the kind of man that isn't afraid of real commitment and all the responsibilities that come with commitment and take her off his hands it won't much matter because he doesn't want much more than a girlfriend so she won't really be missing out on anything.

@tiki, baaaaaaaasically. i mean for someone who is so smart, you'd think he'd know that when a woman agrees that she doesn't want kids or a commitment that she means "for now."

yes, she will have wasted her 20s dealing with him but when he least expects it, she will up and leave him for a man who doesn't love by numbers.

and what's great about this scenario, the moment she's ready to walk out the door, is when he'll rush to the jewelers. "he went to jared!"

Me a hoe well I never LOL!! What the hell is this discovery stuff your talking about? I have said and a few others have said they tell men up front that they are dating, a muse libra usually waits to see were it's going, what direction before she reveals her dating status and if you didn't get that part, comprehend that part that means for me if I'm dating, I will be up front about my status, I'm not ashamed and I surely haven't had any issues with how I choose to date because a date can be 1 date or it can be many it all depends on the individuals and how they click, to me that makes me a responsible human being ooops excuse me responsible hoe LMAO!

There is no dishonesty going on, what is the fricken point in that although I have witnessed many men hide there dating status to get what they want, I don't know why you can't wrap your unevolved mind around that premise, if a man has a problem with how I date, there's the door, don't let the good lord hit ya were the good lord split ya, I have yet to meet a man that isn't multiple dating himself and people are free to say nope no thanks because that's part of the dating process but I assume you called us a hoe because we triggered you in some way with our previous post so you resorted to name calling, that's understandable, immature but understandable.

@tiki, i think you should stop encouraging him. he fancies himself an intellectual but fails to see how asinine his arguments are. i mean anyone who contradicts himself within his own posts can not be reasoned with. besides, he's just a baby. he probably saw some rerun of leave it to beaver and has been going to sleep every night since then dreaming of June Cleaver.

Yep, I have to agree tubby, he's way too much work for me...I'm not benefiting from this conversation with him LOL, moving on....

@thefish ~ big words! yes, I had to look some of them up.

You have resorted to low brow - high-minded language. It's just dressed up insults. I thought you respected our opinions, and now, you spout dither at us? Get off the board, go somewhere else and be nice.

Posted by a muse a libra
@thefish ~ big words! yes, I had to look some of them up.

You have resorted to low brow - high-minded language. It's just dressed up insults. I thought you respected our opinions, and now, you spout dither at us? Get off the board, go somewhere else and be nice.

totally agree with your statement....thefish keeps spouting out all these big words and he keeps saying we or I are having multiple sexual partners which for me isn't true, now not only am I mass dating, I'm mass sexing yeeeesh, shaking my head, thefish stop trying to be intelligent and be intelligent and you can do that by reading our statements instead of making stuff up...how many more undercover insults can this dude hurl around.

Personally I really feel more women need not to give even a second thought as to what other females around them think.

There is nothing wrong with going out with only the intention of having fun and sex. As long as A) You're honest with the other person
B) Practice safe sex

I think more women would be open to dating around if they knew other people would not judge them.

Its very sad in this country how reverse sexism is displayed to women in dating. Because I've seen this kind of repression lead to cheating on BF's, hubbies, or dumping a guy when a better option comes on the scene instead of just staying single.

I'd be more open to get into a relationship with a girl who stayed single and gotten the wandering eye out of her system.

That's probably why me and certain sags, leos and gems click lol.

this topic just goes to show that it's different strokes for different folks! there's no manual in print to buy for these things.

i have dated up to 3 men at a time once. started to have sex with one of them right off the bat but not with the others. the one i had sex with right away i am still with and our relationship has deepened significantly. they did not necessarily know about each other but they knew where i stood. one guy couldn't handle it and fled. the other i let go cuz it wasn't there.

i guess i make up my own rules and i won't be swayed. i'm ok with the differences and am rather philosophical about it.

Hmmm...I've read this entire thread, and as most have pointed out, it's a personal preference. I will agree with Tubby (especially one of her first comments) in that, you can't POSSIBLY know someone within your first, second, third encounter, so why in the hell would you want to take yourself off the market for somebody who after 1, 2, 3 months time will show him/herself to be an ass...I'm not saying that's all the time, nor am I judging or condemning those who chose only to date one person at a time, but if you do that, I just feel you are considerably losing out on the possibility of actually FINDING and being with that "right person" instead of wasting it on somebody you owe absolutely NOTHING to.
I've dated multiple people since highschool. I never took ANYTHING for granted, and if I was out and saw one of them with another, who am/was I to be upset...turnabout is fair play.
On that same vain, I heard this hysterical comedian say this in his stand up one time (paraphrasing), "What's up with you women? I've been dating this woman for a month and she wants to be with me constantly. I want to ask her, 'Damn, what the hell did you do before you met me?"
For whatever reason, a woman will "latch" on to a man and will put a vice grip on him. That's not to say that you shouldn't express to someone if you are in to them, or like them, etc, but to just give up everything in its entirety for a man, I just have never, nor will likely ever understand that, and contrary to my comments, I have been in love before, AND I've been stupid before. I try to learn from my mistakes, and rest assured, unless a man and I have had a conversation about exclusivity, I do NOT believe he is being exclusive to me, and I definitely am not being to him. My ex-fiance' thought it was crazy that he had to ask me to "be his woman." I told him, "I don't take shit for granted. If it's not stated, because I'm the one who turns out looking like an ass when I step into the mall/bar/restaurant, and you have another woman on your arm, and if I confront you, you can say, 'I never said we were exclusive", and dammit, he would be right!
A Muse A Libra, it sounds like you know what you are doing, so keep doing "it." If it works for you, then it's all good, and conversely, for the women who date only one person exclusively, if it works for you, then I say, "keep doing that." In my own experiences, that just would not/did not work, but we are all individuals for a reason.

... or how about we figure out what we want first, make up our own rules accordingly, then find someone who is compatible with them?

so here's what i think... everyone should know there is no exclusivity clause in the dating game. straight up. then, for all those who have issues with this should say something to their date from the start. yes, it could potentially leave ur date running for the hills but at least ur weeding them out, no?