@SofiaV87
10 Years1,000+ Posts
Participating in gay porn does not necessarily define a person's sexual orientation. Some men do it for various reasons without identifying as gay. Sexual orientation is complex and involves personal feelings and attractions beyond past activities or work choices.
Posted by aquarius_man
gay for pay
Yes, gay for pay, I agree
No. I know a guy who is straight n said he'd sleep with men to get forward in his career. He's a model n wants to make it big in the field. He's not even bi. It's just how bad he wants it. So this doesn't surprise me. Maybe your friend wanted money?
Posted by Teena
No. I know a guy who is straight n said he'd sleep with men to get forward in his career. He's a model n wants to make it big in the field. He's not even bi. It's just how bad he wants it. So this doesn't surprise me. Maybe your friend wanted money?
Yes, it was 110% for money
Posted by aquarius_man
at least he wasnt a rentboy
Whets a rentboy ? Lol
Posted by aquarius_man
at least he wasnt a rentboyWhets a rentboy ? Lol
a male escort. its usually young good-looking males who choose to have sex with older men for money.
suck an old mans flaccid cock for hard cash.
click to expand
Ahhhh, well, some ppl would do anything for money. I would rather gauge my eyeball out with my toenail than do anything that would make me feel uncomfortable , cuz u know some of these rentboys aren't feeling the most comfortable in those type of situations lol
Does it matter if heβs gay or bi? No need to make a big deal about it even if it bothers you. He is who he is. He told you because he trusted you. Maintain that trust within yourself too.
Posted by pinkbird03
Does it matter if heβs gay or bi? No need to make a big deal about it even if it bothers you. He is who he is. He told you because he trusted you. Maintain that trust within yourself too.
No, I told him that I wouldn't judge him & im not, was just a bit shocking. I have gay, straight, lesbo & trans friends - none of that stuff bothers me lol
Posted by aquarius_man
at least he wasnt a rentboyWhets a rentboy ? Lol
a male escort. its usually young good-looking males who choose to have sex with older men for money.
suck an old mans flaccid cock for hard cash.
click to expand
but what makes them want that kind of life? π
maybe it's easier money for them (more money) than say working in a restaurant cleaning tables or decent work like janitorial or something that is harder work but not fast quick money, those jobs are minimum wage.
cause in reverse, as a woman, if i were young not educated, and finished high school (maybe i didnt finish) i have little options, so i would jsut work as a housekeeper or janitor work, or taking care of old folks (caretaker -- i hear you dont have to have a degree)....
so why would one choose that kind of life? to do prostitution? Unless they are addicted and on drgus so they can get fast money?
Posted by SofiaV87
Found out something about one of my Scorpio exes from way back when that I have contact with on & off over the years. He did full on gay porn. He told me he did gay porn & asked me how I felt about it. I said I don't feel anything about it, that I won't judge him. I didn't ask him to specify if it was just him alone in the video or with another guy. I got pictures sent to me today. Graphic pictures... do u think a man that does gay porn automatically should be labeled as gay? He also use to dance at a gay bar back in the day ..He's not gay though, bisexual maybe, but not gay .. he just got married a few months ago , I've known him for 16 years .. he's Pisces moon & Pisces rising
maybe he needs to pay his 100k student loan.
have you heard of the story of the UK lady?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belle_de_Jour_(writer)
born november 5.
so her birthday is tomorrow.
she said she did this cause it was fast easy money for college.
so why would one choose that kind of life? to do prostitution? Unless they are addicted and on drgus so they can get fast money?
the same reason why one would choose to become a drug dealer: high risks, but making a quick doller
these guys i knew were student actors/ young up and coming talent; maybe they were libertine like that and needed the money to buy hipster hats. π
click to expand
wow...you really need a rich uncle or wealthy family member, preferrably mommy and daddy
cause it sounds hard up life.
maybe that's why all the pointing fingers at Harvey Weinstein.... when maybe some of them thought.."hey easy money"
then later, thought how disgusting.
of course i dont know. just wondering with all the sexual allegations.
so why would one choose that kind of life? to do prostitution? Unless they are addicted and on drgus so they can get fast money?
the same reason why one would choose to become a drug dealer: high risks, but making a quick doller
these guys i knew were student actors/ young up and coming talent; maybe they were libertine like that and needed the money to buy hipster hats. π
wow...you really need a rich uncle or wealthy family member, preferrably mommy and daddy
cause it sounds hard up life.
maybe that's why all the pointing fingers at Harvey Weinstein.... when maybe some of them thought.."hey easy money"
then later, thought how disgusting.
of course i dont know. just wondering with all the sexual allegations.
the movie making industry is full of pervs & sluts. i know. been there.
click to expand
you have? where at?
in east europe?
OP, are you upset he was into that?
that's what you should think...if you're OK with it.
so why would one choose that kind of life? to do prostitution? Unless they are addicted and on drgus so they can get fast money?
the same reason why one would choose to become a drug dealer: high risks, but making a quick doller
these guys i knew were student actors/ young up and coming talent; maybe they were libertine like that and needed the money to buy hipster hats. π
wow...you really need a rich uncle or wealthy family member, preferrably mommy and daddy
cause it sounds hard up life.
maybe that's why all the pointing fingers at Harvey Weinstein.... when maybe some of them thought.."hey easy money"
then later, thought how disgusting.
of course i dont know. just wondering with all the sexual allegations.
the movie making industry is full of pervs & sluts. i know. been there.
you have? where at?
in east europe?
malta,eastern europe, then turkey, egypt, then western eu
click to expand
in the case of Brooke Magnanti, she came from good family from what i read, and lives in the UK
so....even in a westernized society, and good family one still wants more. She is very very smart too, from what i read. and a degree in some science field.
but in western europe we do have alot of male prostitution, in bars i heard, and some of them very very young, like teenagers and early 20s and these boys are usually from eastern europe, such as Bosnia, Poland ect. trying to find work but can't find a good decent place to hire them. If they get a job as a cleaner.
Posted by aquarius_man
@lisabethur8 : a lot of promiscuity in the industry, even for a libertine aqua π
π’
what about your parents? didnt they help you try to get some good jobs or help you with education? π’
i always think...aww what those poor boys have to go through, maybe broken homes or soemthing...
but in the case of Brooke Magnanti, even she went there, despite lots of options.
so why would one choose that kind of life? to do prostitution? Unless they are addicted and on drgus so they can get fast money?
the same reason why one would choose to become a drug dealer: high risks, but making a quick doller
these guys i knew were student actors/ young up and coming talent; maybe they were libertine like that and needed the money to buy hipster hats. π
wow...you really need a rich uncle or wealthy family member, preferrably mommy and daddy
cause it sounds hard up life.
maybe that's why all the pointing fingers at Harvey Weinstein.... when maybe some of them thought.."hey easy money"
then later, thought how disgusting.
of course i dont know. just wondering with all the sexual allegations.
the movie making industry is full of pervs & sluts. i know. been there.
you have? where at?
in east europe?
malta,eastern europe, then turkey, egypt, then western eu
in the case of Brooke Magnanti, she came from good family from what i read, and lives in the UK
so....even in a westernized society, and good family one still wants more. She is very very smart too, from what i read. and a degree in some science field.
but in western europe we do have alot of male prostitution, in bars i heard, and some of them very very young, like teenagers and early 20s and these boys are usually from eastern europe, such as Bosnia, Poland ect. trying to find work but can't find a good decent place to hire them. If they get a job as a cleaner.
yes, the guys i was talking about were from croatia and romania. one of them from portugal, though.
what do u mean western europe? i live in amsterdam, ive seen it all π
but hey, the rentboys im talking about i met in soho, london, which tells me that rentboys are very popular in england. the brits, instead of shagging their british roses, prefer these young lads from eastern and central europe. or s europe, ive seen lots of italians performing the same kind of ''social services''. western society is hypocrite and tamed. eastern society is savage but more free. arab world is under dictatorship but fascinating. (lots of rentboys in morocco btw, casablanca's cafes full of white trash from western europe and moroccan pretty boys)
click to expand
are you boomshakaaklala?
i thought it weird you online when i'm on, cause UK/ western europe, generally speaking, has similar hours and youre up when i'm up.
wow i didnt know that about rentboys.
maybe that's what OP was talking about with her bf. but instead, doing porn videos.
Posted by aquarius_man
@lisabethur8 : a lot of promiscuity in the industry, even for a libertine aqua ππ’
what about your parents? didnt they help you try to get some good jobs or help you with education? π’
i always think...aww what those poor boys have to go through, maybe broken homes or soemthing...
but in the case of Brooke Magnanti, even she went there, despite lots of options.
huh? am not talking about me. im not eastern european, not an actor, nor a rentboy !!!! π)))
am talking about female actresses that throw themselves at this talented aqua!!! πD that kind of promiscuity π)) easy girls. driven. they want to get a role.
click to expand
ooooohhhh i ok i see.
they threw themselves at you?
did you take up their offer?
so why would one choose that kind of life? to do prostitution? Unless they are addicted and on drgus so they can get fast money?
the same reason why one would choose to become a drug dealer: high risks, but making a quick doller
these guys i knew were student actors/ young up and coming talent; maybe they were libertine like that and needed the money to buy hipster hats. π
wow...you really need a rich uncle or wealthy family member, preferrably mommy and daddy
cause it sounds hard up life.
maybe that's why all the pointing fingers at Harvey Weinstein.... when maybe some of them thought.."hey easy money"
then later, thought how disgusting.
of course i dont know. just wondering with all the sexual allegations.
the movie making industry is full of pervs & sluts. i know. been there.
you have? where at?
in east europe?
malta,eastern europe, then turkey, egypt, then western eu
in the case of Brooke Magnanti, she came from good family from what i read, and lives in the UK
so....even in a westernized society, and good family one still wants more. She is very very smart too, from what i read. and a degree in some science field.
but in western europe we do have alot of male prostitution, in bars i heard, and some of them very very young, like teenagers and early 20s and these boys are usually from eastern europe, such as Bosnia, Poland ect. trying to find work but can't find a good decent place to hire them. If they get a job as a cleaner.
yes, the guys i was talking about were from croatia and romania. one of them from portugal, though.
what do u mean western europe? i live in amsterdam, ive seen it all π
but hey, the rentboys im talking about i met in soho, london, which tells me that rentboys are very popular in england. the brits, instead of shagging their british roses, prefer these young lads from eastern and central europe. or s europe, ive seen lots of italians performing the same kind of ''social services''. western society is hypocrite and tamed. eastern society is savage but more free. arab world is under dictatorship but fascinating. (lots of rentboys in morocco btw, casablanca's cafes full of white trash from western europe and moroccan pretty boys)
are you boomshakaaklala?
i thought it weird you online when i'm on, cause UK/ western europe, generally speaking, has similar hours and youre up when i'm up.
wow i didnt know that about rentboys.
maybe that's what OP was talking about with her bf. but instead, doing porn videos.
click to expand
Doing a porn film isn't the same as selling your arse for cash.
Yes, both involve sex and money, but it's the in between that makes the difference.
OP, the only concern I would suggest is for you to ask him if he's ever done bareback.
if he has, you might want to suggest you both get checked.
are you boomshakaaklala?
i thought it weird you online when i'm on, cause UK/ western europe, generally speaking, has similar hours and youre up when i'm up.
wow i didnt know that about rentboys.
maybe that's what OP was talking about with her bf. but instead, doing porn videos.
its 13:38 here. what time is it there?
yes, i think OP was telling about an eerily similar story. man needs money, man π a grand dont come for free
click to expand
i'm gonna say ...very similar that's for sure.
I agree with the commentors that i wouldnt do it. But if i were poor and my parents were bad and unsupportive and i didnt have anywhere to go, ....i would be happy to even find a maid job at a hotel.
i think it is dreaming about that good life.
Posted by aquarius_man
gay for payYes, gay for pay, I agree
click to expand
So let me get this straight you are ok with him being gay... if he only does it for money. Now if you collect his money would you be his pimp then... lol
I personally think sex is sex and if it is for money it is prostitution. Regardless that has nothing to do with bisexual, gay, or people what not...
So let me get this straight you are thinking about him and currently asking about because you care so much? Obviously more then a friend...
Sounds like he will take all cummers and exceptions will be made for money.
Lol
Piscesmoon
so why would one choose that kind of life? to do prostitution? Unless they are addicted and on drgus so they can get fast money?
the same reason why one would choose to become a drug dealer: high risks, but making a quick doller
these guys i knew were student actors/ young up and coming talent; maybe they were libertine like that and needed the money to buy hipster hats. π
wow...you really need a rich uncle or wealthy family member, preferrably mommy and daddy
cause it sounds hard up life.
maybe that's why all the pointing fingers at Harvey Weinstein.... when maybe some of them thought.."hey easy money"
then later, thought how disgusting.
of course i dont know. just wondering with all the sexual allegations.
the movie making industry is full of pervs & sluts. i know. been there.
you have? where at?
in east europe?
malta,eastern europe, then turkey, egypt, then western eu
in the case of Brooke Magnanti, she came from good family from what i read, and lives in the UK
so....even in a westernized society, and good family one still wants more. She is very very smart too, from what i read. and a degree in some science field.
but in western europe we do have alot of male prostitution, in bars i heard, and some of them very very young, like teenagers and early 20s and these boys are usually from eastern europe, such as Bosnia, Poland ect. trying to find work but can't find a good decent place to hire them. If they get a job as a cleaner.
yes, the guys i was talking about were from croatia and romania. one of them from portugal, though.
what do u mean western europe? i live in amsterdam, ive seen it all π
but hey, the rentboys im talking about i met in soho, london, which tells me that rentboys are very popular in england. the brits, instead of shagging their british roses, prefer these young lads from eastern and central europe. or s europe, ive seen lots of italians performing the same kind of ''social services''. western society is hypocrite and tamed. eastern society is savage but more free. arab world is under dictatorship but fascinating. (lots of rentboys in morocco btw, casablanca's cafes full of white trash from western europe and moroccan pretty boys)
are you boomshakaaklala?
i thought it weird you online when i'm on, cause UK/ western europe, generally speaking, has similar hours and youre up when i'm up.
wow i didnt know that about rentboys.
maybe that's what OP was talking about with her bf. but instead, doing porn videos.
Doing a porn film isn't the same as selling your arse for cash.
Yes, both involve sex and money, but it's the in between that makes the difference.
OP, the only concern I would suggest is for you to ask him if he's ever done bareback.
if he has, you might want to suggest you both get checked.
click to expand
ok...where do you draw the line??
he's still having sex with random folks.
unless he's doing it with a girlfriend, like i hear you have a steady girlfriend and they do it together.
Posted by aquarius_man
@lisabethur8 : a lot of promiscuity in the industry, even for a libertine aqua ππ’
what about your parents? didnt they help you try to get some good jobs or help you with education? π’
i always think...aww what those poor boys have to go through, maybe broken homes or soemthing...
but in the case of Brooke Magnanti, even she went there, despite lots of options.
huh? am not talking about me. im not eastern european, not an actor, nor a rentboy !!!! π)))
am talking about female actresses that throw themselves at this talented aqua!!! πD that kind of promiscuity π)) easy girls. driven. they want to get a role.
ooooohhhh i ok i see.
they threw themselves at you?
did you take up their offer?
i made it sound like am a media mogul like hw π)))) LOOOOL
i was just one of the guys on a film set, not the main guy, by any chance. but even in my position i had access to girls who were open-minded and easy. and our of interest or sheer pleasure would make advances at you/ flirt with you. its a world where ppl dont usually stay married, lets put it like this.
click to expand
the movie industry doesn't sound like a place to be married and settle down with children.
the movie industry doesn't sound like a place to be married and settle down with children.
ditto
too many temptations, the work schedule, a lot of travelling. i think @Ram416 works in the industry, too. he could attest to that
click to expand
I'm female lol
And I don't work in that industry anymore - gave it up for advertising (which I also eventually left). But even in advertising, arse for cash and/or career is common.
Whatever filming I do now is mostly for creative expression.
Posted by aquarius_man
gay for payYes, gay for pay, I agree
So let me get this straight you are ok with him being gay... if he only does it for money. Now if you collect his money would you be his pimp then... lol
I personally think sex is sex and if it is for money it is prostitution. Regardless that has nothing to do with bisexual, gay, or people what not...
So let me get this straight you are thinking about him and currently asking about because you care so much? Obviously more then a friend...
Sounds like he will take all cummers and exceptions will be made for money.
Lol
Piscesmoon
click to expand
The guy isn't gay.
Gay for pay means the guy is straight.
Also, he did mention that this was something he did in the past and not anymore.
She should be thankful that he at the very least was being honest with her about this.
Posted by aquarius_man
@Ram416 - buy the Sony Fs7, you ll thank me later.
I'm going to rent it next weekend for a gig to test it out. π
Posted by xXxBitcheroniiiXxX
I don't believe in the "gay for pay" scenario.If you can willingly have sex with someone of the same sex, paid or not, at the very least you are bisexual.
You could be bisexual and more into the opposite sex, but either way you are not straight.
Same goes for someone who's gay, but has sex with the opposite sex.
They're not gay if they can get their rocks off fucking someone who isn't same sex. Paid or not.
yeah right??
just be a gigolo and do older women who have alot of money.
just like Richard Gere in American Gigolo.
but maybe there is a deeper cause....
maybe the men give more money.
and there is not enough older women or women in general with power and money who can "pay" good.
still.... it's all about money and wanting more. they can't live frugal because there are alot of cleaning jobs, and jobs to work in the fields if they have no education.
Posted by aquarius_man
gay for payYes, gay for pay, I agree
So let me get this straight you are ok with him being gay... if he only does it for money. Now if you collect his money would you be his pimp then... lol
I personally think sex is sex and if it is for money it is prostitution. Regardless that has nothing to do with bisexual, gay, or people what not...
So let me get this straight you are thinking about him and currently asking about because you care so much? Obviously more then a friend...
Sounds like he will take all cummers and exceptions will be made for money.
Lol
Piscesmoon
click to expand
Of course I would be ok if he was gay but he's not gay .. doesn't matter to me what he does or who he likes, still love him as a person just the same .. we used to be more than friends, he's an ex .. I'll always care for him
Posted by lisabethur8
OP, are you upset he was into that?that's what you should think...if you're OK with it.
No, I'm not upset at all.. was just shocking to see pictures of him in action like that .. I'm ok with it
Posted by Cancervirgo15degrees
I would be shocked too. What would be shocking is seeing my ex in any graphic sexual situation with anyone else let alone porn. I would probably be devastated mentally.Dont ask me why. My ex and i did a lot of open fucked up sex shit on the reg way worse than gay porn. I guess i have to be in that headspace. But to have someone randonly send me shit i would be all Whaaaaaaat theeeeee fuuuuuu. Maybe its cause we were together for alnost half my life so i would feel betrayed of the secret.
Do i think hes gay? No. Hes def Bi.
Let me tell you there isnt much i wouldnt do for money. I wouldnt fuck a woman and i wouldnt do sex work in any form. I would do role play with my man for sure. Like sometimes i pretended i was a hooker. I would stand on the street and wear a wig and everything and he would pick me up πππ
Except one time we almost got arrested so that was a bit scary. But actually it turned me on more π€£
I once had this lesbian friend who kept trying to get me to experiment with her. I was all no fuck off. One time she grabbed my ass and i punched her in the face lmaoooo.
If you are not into something or someone sexually then you wouldnt even entertain the idea. I feel.
Good point .. I think he's bi too & that's ok... that hooker pick up story is great lol
so why would one choose that kind of life? to do prostitution? Unless they are addicted and on drgus so they can get fast money?
the same reason why one would choose to become a drug dealer: high risks, but making a quick doller
these guys i knew were student actors/ young up and coming talent; maybe they were libertine like that and needed the money to buy hipster hats. π
wow...you really need a rich uncle or wealthy family member, preferrably mommy and daddy
cause it sounds hard up life.
maybe that's why all the pointing fingers at Harvey Weinstein.... when maybe some of them thought.."hey easy money"
then later, thought how disgusting.
of course i dont know. just wondering with all the sexual allegations.
the movie making industry is full of pervs & sluts. i know. been there.
you have? where at?
in east europe?
malta,eastern europe, then turkey, egypt, then western eu
in the case of Brooke Magnanti, she came from good family from what i read, and lives in the UK
so....even in a westernized society, and good family one still wants more. She is very very smart too, from what i read. and a degree in some science field.
but in western europe we do have alot of male prostitution, in bars i heard, and some of them very very young, like teenagers and early 20s and these boys are usually from eastern europe, such as Bosnia, Poland ect. trying to find work but can't find a good decent place to hire them. If they get a job as a cleaner.
yes, the guys i was talking about were from croatia and romania. one of them from portugal, though.
what do u mean western europe? i live in amsterdam, ive seen it all π
but hey, the rentboys im talking about i met in soho, london, which tells me that rentboys are very popular in england. the brits, instead of shagging their british roses, prefer these young lads from eastern and central europe. or s europe, ive seen lots of italians performing the same kind of ''social services''. western society is hypocrite and tamed. eastern society is savage but more free. arab world is under dictatorship but fascinating. (lots of rentboys in morocco btw, casablanca's cafes full of white trash from western europe and moroccan pretty boys)
are you boomshakaaklala?
i thought it weird you online when i'm on, cause UK/ western europe, generally speaking, has similar hours and youre up when i'm up.
wow i didnt know that about rentboys.
maybe that's what OP was talking about with her bf. but instead, doing porn videos.
Doing a porn film isn't the same as selling your arse for cash.
Yes, both involve sex and money, but it's the in between that makes the difference.
OP, the only concern I would suggest is for you to ask him if he's ever done bareback.
if he has, you might want to suggest you both get checked.
click to expand
What is bareback ? I haven't been with him in over a decade .. if it was more recent I would be running to the doctors hahaha
Posted by aquarius_man
gay for payYes, gay for pay, I agree
So let me get this straight you are ok with him being gay... if he only does it for money. Now if you collect his money would you be his pimp then... lol
I personally think sex is sex and if it is for money it is prostitution. Regardless that has nothing to do with bisexual, gay, or people what not...
So let me get this straight you are thinking about him and currently asking about because you care so much? Obviously more then a friend...
Sounds like he will take all cummers and exceptions will be made for money.
Lol
Piscesmoon
The guy isn't gay.
Gay for pay means the guy is straight.
Also, he did mention that this was something he did in the past and not anymore.
She should be thankful that he at the very least was being honest with her about this.
click to expand
I'm very thankful he was so honest with me, made me feel good he could confide in me
Posted by xXxBitcheroniiiXxX
I don't believe in the "gay for pay" scenario.If you can willingly have sex with someone of the same sex, paid or not, at the very least you are bisexual.
You could be bisexual and more into the opposite sex, but either way you are not straight.
Same goes for someone who's gay, but has sex with the opposite sex.
They're not gay if they can get their rocks off fucking someone who isn't same sex. Paid or not.
Yea after I saw those pics & he confided in me, first thought was he's bisexual .. he got married a few months ago & is happy .. I hope he doesn't cheat on her but I have a feeling he's going to π Lol
Gay for pay
I'm seriously wondering if a guy who is 100% straight even gets hard when he is supposed to go down on another guy for filming? Does that work? Besides him cumming?
Cause I'm doubting that gay for pay works if the guy is 100% straight even if he really just wants to make quick money
Posted by AquaNextDoor
Gay for payI'm seriously wondering if a guy who is 100% straight even gets hard when he is supposed to go down on another guy for filming? Does that work? Besides him cumming?
Cause I'm doubting that gay for pay works if the guy is 100% straight even if he really just wants to make quick money
Yea I know.. I think he's bisexual
Posted by AquaNextDoor
Gay for payI'm seriously wondering if a guy who is 100% straight even gets hard when he is supposed to go down on another guy for filming? Does that work? Besides him cumming?
Cause I'm doubting that gay for pay works if the guy is 100% straight even if he really just wants to make quick money
Yea I think he's bisexual
click to expand
I think I'll post that question in the man cave - my aqua mind got curious π
Posted by AquaNextDoor
Gay for payI'm seriously wondering if a guy who is 100% straight even gets hard when he is supposed to go down on another guy for filming? Does that work? Besides him cumming?
Cause I'm doubting that gay for pay works if the guy is 100% straight even if he really just wants to make quick money
Yea I think he's bisexual
I think I'll post that question in the man cave - my aqua mind got curious π
click to expand
π€£π€£
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Found out something about one of my Scorpio exes from way back when that I have contact with on & off over the years. He did full on gay porn. He told me he did gay porn & asked me how I felt about it. I said I don't feel anything about it, that I won't judge him. I didn't ask him to specify if it was just him alone in the video or with another guy. I got pictures sent to me today. Graphic pictures... do u think a man that does gay porn automatically should be labeled as gay? He also use to dance at a gay bar back in the day ..He's not gay though, bisexual maybe, but not gay .. he just got married a few months ago , I've known him for 16 years .. he's Pisces moon & Pisces rising