Observant vs. Wandering

So I have this recurring issue that I can't seem to get off my mind. I tend to push it away and forget about it, but when it happens again, I feel like every incident comes running back, and I get bothered and hurt even more. My boyfriend considers himself to be observant. I will say this, on many occasions I have caught him looking at men, not out of lust, but out of his "observational" tendencies. Let me also describe myself, I am the kind of woman who would go to a strip club with her boyfriend. If there is a pretty girl, or someone with a nice body I am the first to say baby look at that girl, she is really pretty or she has a nice body. I am very open to things. I consider myself to be very confident. However, when those acts are not initiated by me, I consider to be disrespectful for my boyfriend to check out other women. Maybe this sounds contradictory but let's give an example. My boyfriend sees a guy and he happens to be getting a lot of attention from women. He says to me, yeah I can see that guy is popular with the ladies, but he is good looking, and I look and say, yeah he is. It would not be disrespectful. Now let's say my boyfriend doesn't say anything, and he sees me checking this guy out. Could I use the argument well I was just observing how all these women were all over him, I was just observing, NO. It would be clear that is just an excuse. I wouldn't feel like I am being controlled by my relationship, but rather respecting it.

Picture this, you are at an event with your significant other. You are walking towards him and you see his eyes checking something out from top to bottom. So you look to see what it is and it's one of your closest friends. How would you feel? Would you be quick to think, oh he's just being observant, or would you feel disrespected and insecure. If it happened enough times, would it start to build insecurities that could have a lasting effect?

Well that situation occurred this weekend, and when I tried to bring it up to my boyfriend, he said he doesn't have a wandering eye, he is just an observant person, and would never look at any person more than once. He said he does it to men and females, and it could range from observing weight loss to shoes, and not out of interest. He told me, he doesn't want to feel like he has to walk with his head down or watch where he looks if he is doing nothing wrong. I am not asking that he does that, but maybe he needs to really reverse the situation and see if I were doing

cont'd

He told me, he doesn't want to feel like he has to walk with his head down or watch where he looks if he is doing nothing wrong. I am not asking that he does that, but maybe he needs to really reverse the situation and see if I were doing it, would he be satisfied with I am observant. Would he be ok with me looking at his friends, for the mere act of observing, even though to an outside party, it could look otherwise.

There was a time when he himself would tell me, oh so and so was talking about your friend's legs and I didn't look because I didn't want to and out of respect for you. When I heard that, it said a lot to me about who he is, and it made me envision a serious relationship with him, because wandering eyes are a pet peeve to me. My father constantly disrespects my mom, and it was something I knew I couldn't live with, and now to a certain degree I am, and I don't want to.

A good example I can use for this, is when we were dating he would talk about strip clubs, and I said to him, they don't bother me, they are not a big deal. He said that statement said a lot about who I was, that I was laid back. About a few weeks ago I made a comment about one of his friends and how it was cool if he went every now and then, but not all the time. He brought up how that statement is very different from the one I made when we were dating. There were no conditions on my original statement but there were on my more recent one. It showed a difference, that's how I feel about him "observing" my friends now, it was something that when we were dating I never thought I would have to worry about, with my friends or with any other woman in general. It seemed his eyes were only for me, and now they "observe" all women, now there is a difference.

Any thoughts?

Yeah .. why don't you just claw his eyes out, then you won't have to worry about him being a human with eyes.

Problem solved ..

fyi: Normally, when people stop checking out other people, it's because they are dead.

You know P-Angel, I appreciate your frankness, some would be offended, but you put me in my place every time I need it!!!

It still bothers me, I am not going to lie, but you know what it is human nature, I just wish it didn't involve my friends.

Yeah, I think it depends how long the eyes linger.

Personally I've never believed women who say they are cool with going to strip clubs, and saying "That girl has a pretty body." I think you're just kowtowing to your boyfriend...that will make him despise you in the end.

I mean, is it an activity you would do by yourself? I hope not! So why do it with him?

If I really liked the guy, I might start flirting with his friends and eyeing them. Then when he got all pissy and jealous, as every guy would, I would give him a big wide-eyed look and say sweetly "Why honey, you know I'm just an observant person. I *surely* don't have to keep my eyes to the ground, do I?"

That ought to cut his crap out pretty quick. If he cares, that is...

Sometimes, making more of it, will intensify the effect it has on you. Try to ignore it, maybe he's trying you.

lol, ah-ha

Sometimes, making more of it, will intensify the effect it has on you. Try to ignore it, maybe he's trying you.

What would be the point of him trying me...I am 100% loyal, and dont feel the need to be observant...I dont care what his friends look like or what they wear...

and as for the earlier post of I am kowtowing to my boyfriend...maybe I am to a certain degree...I am laid back, but maybe by doing that it makes it sound like I am ok with him being "observant"...something to keep in mind...

"when we were dating he would talk about strip clubs, and I said to him, they don't bother me, they are not a big deal. He said that statement said a lot about who I was, that I was laid back."

Ok, here goes, lol .. during the initial stages of a relationship, two people set up parameters as to what is acceptable and what isn't. People for the most part, will actually ADHERE to these conditions because they care about the person and the terms of relating .. such as DC, for example .. his girl thought it disrespectful, he was willing to have this comprimise .. this is how relationships work.

"He brought up how that statement is very different from the one I made when we were dating. There were no conditions on my original statement but there were on my more recent one."

Now, after how ever long it's been .. YOU change the conditions, lol

Omg .. now what?

Eye ball someone balls, lol

Start overtly flirting with his friends to play a head-game, just to later come back and say, "What, moi?" lol

Or, perhaps, he's trying you, lol

You changed the fucking rules .. lol

I'm sorry, but, this all seems so hilarious to me .. everybody gives you their input as to how they feel about a man looking at another woman .. but, completely overlook the fact that up until now .. YOU TOOK HIM TO STRIP CLUBS .. lol,

.. you set the precedence YOURSELF .. this isn't about all of a sudden out-of-nowhere, this man is disrepecting you ..

.. bottom line, if you want to "act" like the cool chick and encourage disrespectful behaviour by taking him to watch naked women .. then you have to suffer the consequences when he looks .. hehehehehehehehehe

It may be funny and there may be things that are contradictory, but that is the purpose of me trying to figure it out.

You see the strip club thing, it really doesnt bother me. From day one, since the moment we met, I told him my pet peeve was wandering eyes. Like I state previously, my ftather did it all my life, and I knew it was something I never wanted to live with. I made this crystal clear to my boyfriend. There was no vagueness in that. He knew coming into the relationship that it was something I would not tolerate. He ironically enough always thought I had a wandering eye, but I was always a people watcher, when I saw it affected him, I curbed my eyes, because his feelings mattered more than observing a crowd.

So that is my question, if he sees it bothers me, and I have addressed, why does it continue to happen?

"I consider myself to be very confident."

"feel disrespected and insecure. If it happened enough times, would it start to build insecurities that could have a lasting effect?"

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"I am the first to say baby look at that girl, she is really pretty or she has a nice body. I am very open to things."

"My father constantly disrespects my mom, and it was something I knew I couldn't live with, and now to a certain degree I am, and I don't want to."

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There seems to be a conflict here, Angel .. and quite frankly, I don't think it's him.
From what you described, he has continued with the relationship in the same fasion it was presented to him by you as to your standards ..

I mean trying to make you jealous. You know just egging you on.

"why does it continue to happen"


Because you changed the rules .. it continues to happen because you set it up for him to believe that it was ok to look, lol

This isn't rocket science .. you tell a kid, a dog, a spouse .. whatever the rules are .. they will obey .. but you can't change the rules and then bitch because they didn't follow, lol

"on many occasions I have caught him looking at men, not out of lust, but out of his "observational" tendencies"

"He said he does it to men and females, and it could range from observing weight loss to shoes, and not out of interest."


Quite Frankly .. this doesn't sound much like trying to make a person jealous.



It's not "that" the wind is blowing .. it's "what" the wind is blowing.

PA...I didn't overlook the strip-club que. It's obviously not a threat to her for some reason while eyeballing her 'friend' is. Sounds like he's just a horny s.o.b. to me quite frankly. Sounds like a player who would prefer an orgy. Sorry, but it DOES EXIST.

Course now my logical side would have to fight with my spiritual side and say "hey he's just a guy looking at everybody's goods" what's new?

I agree with both perspectives, if I voice it bothers me, then don't do it, and appreciate the times when I point things out, but I also agree P-Angel, if I am cool with it sometimes, then I am sending the wrong message.

but why my friends—

Something to think about...

PA...Since when does what anyone "says" they are doing it for make it SO?

You set the precedence, Angel .. the terms of relating with you according to your standards .. you allowed him, supported his desire and even encouraged him to the point of pointing out pretty women to him to goggle at ..

.. is he gonna change? Probably not because according to your testimony, he even commented at the beginning of dating on how he noticed you are laid back on this topic .. had you not been that way, it's possible that you two wouldn't even be together any longer.

.. this is a serious issue with people and capturing a partner, that happens way too many times. You can't "fake" how you believe just for the sake of making an impression, and then "expect" the other person to make you happy.

"Sounds like he's just a horny s.o.b. to me quite frankly"


He's DUDE .. com'on .. hello .. they're all horny ALL THE TIME, lol

Look, it's like this .. I understand the difference between my man looking at naked women at a strip club and eye-balling my friends .. what I'm saying is that he is a HE, not a SHE .. if you set up the conditions with a GUY that's ok to look .. HE WILL .. EVERY FEMALE WHO CROSSES HIS PATH ..

.. that's WHY you set up terms and conditions for the union in the beginning.

so tell me P-Angel...what can I do at this point— What would be your recommendation?

"baby look at that girl, she is really pretty or she has a nice body"

"It seemed his eyes were only for me, and now they "observe" all women, now there is a difference."

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There's a definite conflict here, Angel and it's within you ..

It's doubtful you'll get him to change .. the only person you can change is yourself.

You want him to stop looking? Then stop condoning it .. it's that simple.

You find what you seek .. you reap what you sow .. so long as you are pointing out women's asses when they look by, your approving of the behaviour.

I sooooo second that PA! you are right on there. As for ME, he better stay the hell outa the strip-club! I'm not that "advanced" LOL

STOP POINTING OUT HOT WOMEN TO HIM .. STOP TAKING HIM TO STRIP CLUBS

Stop anything that suggests it's ok to look at other women .. perhaps, over time, he'll figure it out .. but, you can't expect him to just change, just like that when it's been approved for so long.

What is his sign, anyway?

He is a Virgo...

and you are 100% right...thank you

A Virgo .. they are creatures of routine .. it may take even longer to get him to comprehend that you've changed the way you feel.

The part that worries me most about this is that he's a Virgo ..

.. you know, their screening process is very stringent. When he decided that the two of you would be an item .. he took EVERYTHING about you into consideration.

This might work against you, if you now decide it's not acceptable. How is he attitude now that it offends you? Not his words, rather, his tone?

I thought the same thing, but you know what, I made it clear from the beginning how I felt about wandering eyes. Although I have contradicted myself to a certain degree...I did not begin saying oh look at that girl, she's pretty way after we became exclusive. So he became my boyfriend on the premise that I did not tolerate wandering eyes.

So I agree I need to stop egging it on, but he knew the reality of me, before I went and skewed it.

Well, that's good .. at least you don't have to worry about him thinking you were decieving him ..

You know, Angel .. not just do you have to figure out how to cope with making this adjustment in your relationship .. you also have to look at why you've changed. At one time, this wasn't an issue, you were confident in yourself .. now, it makes you feel insecure. It's really not a disrespect thing because you didn't think it was disrespectful before. Something has happened that made you now feel insecure .. that needs to be addressed because if it's not, then something else might pop up that brings back these feelings .. know what I mean?

I've no clue about your relationship, but, one thing that pops in my head is .. has one of your friends made eyes at him? Is that why now, all of a sudden, this is dis-tasteful to you?

Seriously .. I just can't fathom why there's only certain people where this bothers you. I, too, don't care if my man goes to strip clubs .. he can go without me, it doesn't effect me, because I am confident enough in my relationship to know that him just being "male" is no reflection on my feminity .. however, I'm that way with all people he interacts with .. so, I find it odd that there's a certain person, or set of persons, where this insecurity comes in to play.

Is it because with the dancers, or a random woman walking by .. they are unobtainable?
And with your friends .. they are at his disposal?

So, it's really a trust issue?

You know P-Angel I was thinking about the same thing. At one point things didn't really bother me, and I was very comfortable with everything. Very confident. But you know what the reality is I think that my friends have gotten way too comfortable with my boyfriend. The joking around, the way they interact with him, is just too close to comfort, and I don't like it. My Virgo is a gentleman and I think women tend to confuse this for more. Maybe it's me, maybe I feel he use to put me on a pedastal and now I feel like he just thinks I will always be there. I don't know what it is, but I definately have to give it some thought, because I hate when a topic becomes recurring. I like to nip things in the bud, if not things start to become draining. I love this man more than words can say, and I want a future with him, somehow we both fell off the pedastal we held each other on...and somehow we need to find our way back on top.

I think it is a Trust issue...there is a lack of trust...he doesn't trust me, I don't trust him...and until we find a way to gain it...there will always be some issue...

I feel I go over and beyond to gain his trust...and so when I tell him on several occasions that his "observational" skills are beginning to affect me, why wouldn't he stop. I mean realistically speaking, whenever he thinks I am staring at someone I make it a point to make sure he knows I wasn't. If his friends become too friendly I steer clear of them because I know it bothers him. So why is it so hard to do the same in return.

Angel .. I'm getting the impression here that the two of you are confusing something, here. If you look at a man without his persmission, or without him pointing it out .. that's NOT disrespectful and visa-versa .. everybody looks at other people, it's matter of HOW one looks, or like EagleGirl said, if the gaze lingers.

To check someone out, isn't snogging them in the corner .. it's harmless to a relationship, so long as two people trust each other.

Altas .. it's about trust. Have you never trusted one another? You did when you both had each other on a pedalstool?

"But you know what the reality is I think that my friends have gotten way too comfortable with my boyfriend. The joking around, the way they interact with him, is just too close to comfort, and I don't like it. My Virgo is a gentleman and I think women tend to confuse this for more. Maybe it's me, maybe I feel he use to put me on a pedastal and now I feel like he just thinks I will always be there."

So, change your perspective .. say, "Hey, my boyfriends hot," and feel proud that he's yours. This is harmless, you know .. every woman I know, other than family .. LOVES my husband .. he is so kind, a complete gentlemen, he likes to wear Happy Faces when my friends and family are around .. it's just his disposition, he likes to please. Sounds like your man likes to wear Happy Faces too .. that's a cool thing, he could be mean and insufferable.

You know what .. if he wanted to be with another woman .. he would, any person would if that's what they wanted to do. You can't control another person, he's gonna love you, or he's not .. if he's enjoying the company of friends, male or female, and he's happy and still coming home to you .. then you have no worries.

I remember when my son started smoking at 14 and people would say, "You let him smoke?"
My answer was always simple, "Let?"

Angel .. if you didn't have him, then you wouldn't.
And if he didn't have you, then he wouldn't.

The only thing to fear is that you don't have him .. but, you do.
Trust "that", if you can't .. what .. then one day, trusting that you have him, will make you see "what" it is you have .. and visa-versa.

I didn't think you ever got pissed off, archer .. so, this is a button?

For some reason, it doesn't appear that way to me .. for he even checks out men.
It was said .. that there was no lust in the eyes.

I'm not sure I'm understanding why women get so jealous .. I'm not sure why friendliness is deduced to flirting and being dispicable.

Message posted by: Angel1177 on 4/16/2007 4:14:18 PM ip: xxx.xxx.xxx.2
.. My Virgo is a gentleman and I think women tend to confuse this for more.

Message posted by: P-Angel on 4/16/2007 5:25:14 PM ip: xxx.xxx.xxx.190
Message posted by: Angel1177 on 4/16/2007 4:14:18 PM ip: xxx.xxx.xxx.2
.. My Virgo is a gentleman and I think women tend to confuse this for more.

P-Angel I like your way of thinking...but let me be very honest...I in no way am trying to control him...I just think there alot of double standards in my relationship...do I think he is looking at my friends in a lustful manner, no, but regardless of his incessant need to observe everything, and yes like I said men, there needs to be a line drawn. From the beginning he knew that this particular friend is extremely flirtatious and has a bad rep...but I accept her for who she is...she has been a good friend, and when we were dating he made it a point to keep his distance from her because he knew how I felt. Throughout the course of our relationship he has grown increasingly chummy with my friends and I DON'T like it...I don't do it, because I know how he feels about it...so why does he think it's okay to do...

as for the comments of him doing it to test me, I sure hope that is not the case because those games will only lead him to lose me...

I don't say this to be conceited but I am a very attractive woman who has never had an issue finding a man, and at that men who take me seriously...I have alot to offer as does he, but there are things we do to compromise in a relationship, and if you know there is something that bothers and hurts the other, than you stop, you do not test those limits...and mine are being pushed...

I told him earlier how I felt about the incident and he said he was sorry if I felt he had been looking at my friend but that he didn't and we could discuss it further later on tonight face to face...

I agree with you, I have to set the presedence and stop antagonizing the situation...but my patience is wearing thin...

to notice is one thing, I notice, but I find no interest in other men...and I could care less what his friends look like or what they wear, or if they lost weight...I respect my boyfriend...I stay clear when his friends are flirting with me or looking at me, I make my grounds known...so I want the same in return...

"he knew that this particular friend is extremely flirtatious and has a bad rep...but I accept her for who she is...she has been a good friend, and when we were dating he made it a point to keep his distance from her because he knew how I felt. Throughout the course of our relationship he has grown increasingly chummy with my friends and I DON'T like it"

Try removing him from your friends, then ..

"and when we were dating"

You two are no longer dating?

when I say dating...I mean...when we weren't exclusive...

we are still together...

oh, I thought maybe you were living together

"I stay clear when his friends are flirting with me or looking at me, I make my grounds known..."


For a man who is jealous .. I find it quite odd that he wouldn't notice his friends flirting with you.

well, they do it subtly, but trust me he is quick to jump in and pull me out of the situation...I should rephrase flirt to being bery friendly, and putting their arms around me...and so on...

he has told me he doesn't like his friends talking to me alot, so I have avoided doing that...and the ones I talk to in now way flirt with me, and I am not doing anything wrong, but I know it bothers him...so I avoid it...I don't feel controlled...I am putting his needs as a priority...

his friends like my way of being so they love to get my point of view on their situations...but my boyfriend has this saying...better safe than sorry...and although I know my intentions and that I wouldnt ever wrong him...it's how he feels so I respect it...

So, then .. toss all friends, male and female .. problem solved.

LOL...you are too much...and we should move to a desserted island, just the two of us...

Perfect!

"and we should move to a desserted island, just the two of us"

Not such a bad idea, right?

Then you two will learn to trust each other .. and maybe you will because you want to, rather than just because you'll have to.