So Hard To Do

Okay. I've chosen "no contact" with LIbra Girl. Really. I'm so exhausted and have just had it with too many unknowns and not enough from her on her part. So, of course, she calls and leaves me a voice-mail, "I'm driving and have a long way to drive so just wanted to say, 'Hi.'" Well, less than a week ago, I would have called and probably had a nice chat and attempt to see her (to fit ME into HER shedule); but this time I was thinking, "I'm probably just one of many on your list and you're going down your list. You probably just want attention from ANYONE, doesn't matter who, and I've been such a sap, you'd expect me to just jump to talk to you---because I have again and again and again and again." So I didn't call back or e-mail or send a carrier pigeon or ANYTHING. Hasn't she figured out that her behavior toward me has communicated that she DOESN'T want to be with me?

I'm doing my best NOT to be resentful, but it's hard to do and, yes, hard not to call; and I think of time with her---YUCK----too hard. I read Chatz' posts and it's the same. I don't feel I can even be her friend right now because she doesn't treat me like a friend, doesn't seem to have interest in what I'm doing, doesn't ask about my family. I've been VERY good to her.

So if I don't contact her AT ALL, period, will she just let DIE whatever we had? It would have been nice to have a summer planned out; in my mind, a blast to do things together; does she even realize / care she's LOST that— At this point she acts like she's ASHAMED to be seen with me at certain times, but acts like nothing happened after she communicates that and then wants to visit, probably just wants me to spoil her.

I am NOT "off" all Libras. But this experience with a Libra hasn't helped.

Oh Atom *lotsa hugs*

Its probably a good idea to chill out for a while....I guess you're doing the right thing...its call self preservation. Honestly, let her dwell on it for a while. I honestly doubt you are just one of a list and she's going down it but it might feel that way to you (trust me, I get the same feeling sometimes - sad eh?).

She WILL realise what she's losing in time, that's of course, if you haven't got it all wrong that she's seeing somebody/others and she may indeed get that upset at losing you that she realises some home truths..maybe. I doubt she's embarassed to be seen with you but we've known all along there was something different about her. Im in the same situation - we never go out but its always comfortable at my place yada yada yada....guess we just got broken ones!

DON'T spoil her if she wants to visit, let her do some work (if of course she comes back)....its healthy to walk away sometimes....Im also doing this for now anyway until I get lured back, which of course we all know, I will be.

Stay strong Atom and remember the saying "good guys usually finish last"....gotta start being selfish for a while...one thing I have learnt about mine in particular, and that's, and as he put it "you're too nice"...they don't like nice, they want nasty so it seems, so there's something to complain about!!! Stop being so good to her, stop running errands for her, stop doing anything for her.

From what I can gather, Librans don't like people walking away - do your own thing for a while...let her start fretting that you DIDN'T return the call/email, etc.....stop doing the worrying - its your turn to enjoy life....let her come running...if she doesnt'—? you know there are plenty of gorgeous women out there

I really, trully am sorry that you're feeling so down - ya should have kept swimming damnit!!!! Chin up....Im sure there is a silver lining on that cloud real soon 🙂

xx

She?ll be dying inside, but her front is typical libra...its all about the pride. I agree that you shouldnt give her an easy time...bad for the Libras because (as you know) you will be taken advantage of. Dont contact her for a while yet, calm yourself first...!

Thanks for the cookie, kg---I was thinking of you this morning, cuz I always appreciate your point of view. Of course, Chatz is always such a HUGE support---you are all so good to me.

sola---thanks----I'll calm myself----and, yeah, I don't get that pride thing w/ Libras, but that's okay.

And---reinvent myself? Hmmm. Thinkin' about it---but I kinda like myself the way I am and it seems most people I know do too.

from reading your post your ROCK so don't change.

Find you a girl or let her find you....someone thats as into you as you are into her and you will be fine.

keep ya head up!

Atom, were you guys ever in a relationship? Or is it that you just liked her and she never reciprocated the relationship?

I am sorry you are going through this.

QS, so nice to hear from you. Relationships, as I believe you know, can have many definitions. so, yeah, in a relationship but what heckuva kinda relationship? (Seeing it in the rear-view mirror). (Hey, I didn't know you were 76 years old!).

tiki33, thanks for the encouragement. I know I don't need a woman to enjoy my life, but would sure like one, a good one, because it makes life better. *sigh*

It's not necessarily pride. But we don't talk emotional stuff very well and so we don't at all address what the other person needs to hear. As a result nothing is conveyed and this might be perceived as 'too much pride.' It is not that.

I also think that some of us Libras don't realise that we are not emotionally expressive, until this is pointed out and then we still don't get it. So there is the tendency for the other party to feel a bit lonely, their feelings are not acknowledged.

And that's the bit that is 'all in the head'. Equally we don't look for other people for emotional support.

Be strong Atom !!! Let's all hug him 🙂

"we are not emotionally expressive" - very interesting point , Libra , yet recently , my Libra is way too much emotionally expressive , not to mention all the compliments ! The point is that he thinks I like it !! but you re right in some extent , he was not very demonstrative about his feeling before .

Libra Girl called and left a voice-mail this morning. Yeah, I saw the caller ID, but didn't want to talk. I'm feeling very cool toward her and Aries don't like feeling cool or cold!

She said, "I'm just checking in," and right now I don't even know how to respond to that---thinking I just not communicate at all for now. I had a very long 10 days without a day off---just working, so exhausted, need to rest and do something FUN! Er, that was the idea to kick around with Libra Girl---to have FUN----BUT now that it's a good time for that---urmmmmmmmm.

I appreciate your points of view, Libras, and to all of you moms: HAPPY MOTHER'S DAY!

kg, you are sweet to ask. When Chatz' attention was pulled back to her Libra guy, I swam back; albeit with a much stronger firmly toned body; BUT haven't given up sending some of that firey Aries energy her way (she more than deserves to bask in warmth)---then I dove back into the Atlantic when it seemed appropriate and just taking my time occasionally dog-paddling, floating on my back, listening to the dolphins laugh and the whales sing. Taking my time and checking when Chatz gets back from her whirl tour. (I miss seeing her photo!).

Met with the woman pianist I'm doing a concert with---we'll do it the end of September, and we decided on the first movement of the Schumann A minor Concerto; she's also doing some Scarlatti and I'm tackling a few pieces by Scriabin and a seemingly impossible one by Ravel, maybe some Chopin. Some of this music maybe a little TOO rich and moody for how I have felt as of late. Thank you for asking. Music has been a faithful mistress all my life---I can't let her down!

"Taking my time and checking when Chatz gets back from her whirl tour. (I miss seeing her photo!)" LOL....when the look of this board changed I thought I post way too much, you'd all get sick of my ugly mug real quick so deleted it LOL

Atom, did you mention much stronger firmly toned body? *fans herself*

Atom

We are definitely not getting in touch with Libra Girl.

Denying her, as you are doing now, makes her head spin with wondering - and you're doing an excellent job at it. Keep this up and you'll see who comes knocking. But be careful, she may just be doing it to have you where she wants you - as a remote admirer. Then again, maybe more. This is where you want to be with a stubborn Libra Girl.

Exam

What I was writing is applicable to situations where a Libra wants to break up, no longer feels THAT way about you etc.

When all is well we are very expressive - to keep feeding your happy state and make you feel secure and not doubt us for a single second.

Ai, I just read your Mother's Day message. I am so proud of you for being direct. I would love to have seen Libra Girl's expression.

But you're none the wiser. Now what are we gonna do?

Promise me you're still not going to call her. She needs to approach you again.

I agree with Libra....don't make any moves

Repeat after me whenever you want to contact her , dear Atom : " Our faith is destined to end here " then go swimming 🙂

LOL

Libra, Chatz---yes, no moves. Our weather has changed. It is beautiful and sunny! I need to enjoy the WEATHER and not use energy pursuing her. I've also put together lots of business deals lately---that take time and attention. So I'll see when she shows up, pops up, e-mails or calls. Seems rather bizarre to me, being a guy, being aggressive, but seems like the only thing that WORKS with her right now.

Atom,

I see this whole thing completely opposite of everyone else. (big suprise)

She just isn't into you or attracted to you. She just isn't feeling it. She kept telling you that she only wanted friendship and you kept pursuing despite the fact that she was saying no. You didn't listen to what she wanted or needed. You didn't respect the fact that she wanted to be friends with you nothing more.

Your friendship came with strings attached. You only want to be her friend if she was romantically interested in you. Everything you did for her had strings attached and now you are resentful.

I don't think she has been selfish. I think you weren't listening or respecting what she wanted.

In other words, she values you as a person and a friend. She just doesn't want to get naked with you.

ls, can you quit being so subtle? GEE, I didn't know that meant strings were attached if I was up front with her the whole time. And, anyway, who said I'll have nothing to do with her UNLESS we "get naked?" I've already known her for about 2 years and haven't dropped the friendship. AND do you think feelings can change or not? WHY would a "just friends" person go out of her way and bake a lemon pie or be VERY concerned if I didn't get back to her? I obviously didn't take her up front statements as black and white definitive as you did. (Haven't MOST of the Libras declared their true romances came out of their friendships?). AND she at this point of time has NOT made it clear "just friends" sooooo what's going on there? Oh yeah, and I HAVEN'T pursued her at all--no contact at all---for about two weeks. And SHE came over---is that pursuing on MY part? (Just adding a little "heat" to the discussion).

kg, Yeah, may be a bump. I've hit a few before. Survived well. One reason for my "talk" with her yesterday was to find out where we stand. And I've pretty much concluded to just let her do her own thing, come and go as she likes; make the first moves (despite what I may feel). Age difference? I think she's actually about 1 1/2 years OLDER than me.

It seemed to me that you have repressed a lot of frustration and anger towards this girl ! This is really not healthy for your emotional state ! Why dont you keep her away for good ? Dont even return her calls or let her in the house . No explaination either! It sounds cruel but if you feel like being used , this is the only way not to hurt yourself and her 🙂

Interesting, Exam. Not sure how you reached that conclusion, but appreciate your viewpoint.

""It's not necessarily pride. But we don't talk emotional stuff very well and so we don't at all address what the other person needs to hear. As a result nothing is conveyed and this might be perceived as 'too much pride.' It is not that.

I also think that some of us Libras don't realise that we are not emotionally expressive, until this is pointed out and then we still don't get it. So there is the tendency for the other party to feel a bit lonely, their feelings are not acknowledged.

And that's the bit that is 'all in the head'. Equally we don't look for other people for emotional support.---


Yeah 😢 I have this problem bad...not expressing, but I'm very emotinal to myself.. underneath it all--- not that it counts i guess--- Damn :/ if I it could only surface.

Thanks, LL.

LovelyLibra

I happen to do this too - be emotional to myself/on the inside. For some reason I am not allowed to let emotions surface and in front of other people. I feel that I then come across as needy and weak yet I don't really see it that way when others share their emotions with me. Although I detest it when colleagues use emotive reasoning when trying to convince me on a particluar matter.

I am consciously trying to learn to communicate with certain people and not always think that 'they don't need to know' - when actually they probably do. Don't know if this is related at all to the behaviour described in my first paragraph.

* WHY would a "just friends" person go out of her way and bake a lemon pie or be VERY concerned if I didn't get back to her?

Because you are friends! That is what friends do. They are nice to each other, do nice things for each other and are concerned about each other.

* (Haven't MOST of the Libras declared their true romances came out of their friendships?).

No. Most of us have said we know within minutes of meeting you if we are meant to be partners or not. I know within 30 seconds if romance is possible. Doesn't mean we aren't cautious, we just know.

* AND she at this point of time has NOT made it clear "just friends" sooooo what's going on there?

Because ... how many times does she have to say it and in how many ways Atom? She hasn't kissed you. She has repeatedly told you that she isn't interested in a romantic relationship with you. You say now she acts embarrassed to be seen with you in public ... these are all clues that she just isn't feeling it. She acts embarrassed because she wants to leave herself open to meeting others.

* Oh yeah, and I HAVEN'T pursued her at all--no contact at all---for about two weeks.

You have pursued her for how many months? Two weeks is nothing.

* And SHE came over---is that pursuing on MY part?

It isn't. It is manipulation. You want her to do what you want her to do. You want her to feel what you want her to feel. So you accepted friendship with her on a certain set of terms then you break the friendship because she isn't behaving how you want her to behave.

How is that fair?

I am not trying to be mean. You are just seeing this through your own perspective, you want it so bad that you are looking for clues that this is what she wants. She likes you as a friend. She probably loves you as a person but not romantically that is why she allows you to hold her hand but not kiss her. She wants to make you happy but isn't romantic about you.

I really DO want you to be happy. Stoping you from banging your head against the brick wall over and over again is my attempt to help.

* Why dont you keep her away for good ? Dont even return her calls or let her in the house . No explanation either! It sounds cruel but if you feel like being used , this is the only way not to hurt yourself and her.

Actually, I can think of few things that would hurt more than a friend ignoring you and never explaining why.

I think you need to tell her that you have romantic feelings for her and since those feelings aren't reciprocated, you need to end the friendship.

I am not good at the whole emotional vulnerability thing either. I am learning but it is still very hard for me to tell someone my truth but I try. It usally involves a lot of stumbling for words, tripping over myself, repeating myself, pacing about, and uttering "this is horrific" over and over again.

Libras = not so good at the emotional vunerability thing but we know how to party. lol!

🙂

But what if you don't feel like your back is against the wall and really do feel fine?

I have a hard time telling someone they have hurt me and why. I am getting better at it though.

Most of the time I am just pretty happy.

Nope not for me--- not expressive = back up against the wall = fear... But, I've been learning to come out of myself, so to say, stop personalizing everything including my emotions, b/c it's not a good way to live...

Geez!...
Looking over that statement... I sound like a case lol--- ?


""Partee = everyone having a great time, no need to show myself!! My friends are fine and don't really care that I am up against the wall and can't show my true self.

Was me, not me anymore. LEEBRA's need to grow out of their self imposed exile.---I agree.

You know Atom I used to do the same things she's doing, maybe/ maybe not for the same reasons, but for me i'd had so many disappointments and so many men be fooled by my outward apearance and think that I'm easily manipulated- and try to take advantage-, that when someone good would come around they would get tried even harder, b/c it seems too good to be true... and I wait/search for that one thing to give me a reason. And when I couldn't find anything I'd back away in confusion/ uncertainty b/c it's hard to come out of that comfort zone of uncomfortable relationships.---- I'm coming along though 🙂--- see I'm really a case here...

I dunno.

Everyone thinks being open and honest is about sharing your dark, dirty secretes ... but what if you are over them? I think sharing your light, joy, and love are just as important, if not more important, than sharing your sorrows and fears.

The only time I have ever acted the way she is acting is if I truly love the person but am not attracted to them in a romantic way.

Responses to LS:

*The only time a woman has ever gone out of her way to bake me something and come over was when she was SERIOUS about me and we usually ended up in bed. I have NEVER baked a cake, pie, cookies, etc., for a "just friend" because I wouldn't want to lead her on---and in my opinion that is what I'd be doing. I personally think if a man baked a pie for a woman and brought it over to her place, he is definitely giving her signals and in my experience most women would feel like they were leadng him on if they accepted it.

*So the whole thing about Libras marrying their best friends is a lie— After all, if marriage came from best friendship, they had to have a friendship in the first place, right?

*Not kissing, etc. So then is she just manipulating me? And, if so, then why are you so mad at me?----thinking I'm manipulating her? If I bother her so much than why is she hanging around and coming to me? Even in your arguments you haven't made it clear why she would do that---except "that's what friends do." Really? How many "friends" put off a guy and then keep trying to be with him? Is that HER (and YOUR?) definition of "friendship?" With all the women I know, I let them know right out we're just friends. Period. And that I don't have a lot of time to spend with them because I will focus my time on a woman who wants to be serious. Despite what Libra Girl has said in the past her ACTIONS continue to indicate she wants more. Maybe she's just lonely. Maybe she just wants attention. She's putting a lot of energy into being "just friends."

*Er, sorry if you think two weeks is not long enough. Maybe it isn't in Libra Land. But after two DAYS I usually get calls from people in my life that haven't heard from me. AND it wasn't the whole: "Hey, look at this! I lasted for two weeks!" It would have been longer---I would have just let time go on. My point was SHE called right after that time.

*So tell me. How did I manipulate HER coming over? I IGNORED her! I didn't ask for her to come over or to bake a pie or to talk. It doesn't make any sense telling me that I manipulated her. That's just weird. Also, as far as the whole argument of manipulation: er, doesn't it seem that SHE wants me to do what SHE wants— You have pretty much laid this whole thing only on me----which again, in my opinon, is weird.

*And, yes, I AGREE with you ('hope you're not too surprised): I NEVER want to hurt anyone. Especially friends.

And life goes on. . .

THOUGHT you'd like that, kg!

😉

"Life goes on.." very true! Bravo 🙂 I agree with Libra that the method of silently cutting contact is cruel but if the girl is toying with Atom 's feeling then that might be the only way since he already asked her directly and her reply is still vague.

Sorry , I meant I agreed with LS ! Libra has been replying my post alot so I m confused ! Thank you Libra anyway 🙂

kg, you DESERVE lots of presents!

whoah, this topic is getting hot and heavy *sits back with a hot cuppa, enjoying the ride* LOL.....ummmm I think I'll stay out of it though 🙂

I'm thinking of staying out of it too. . .

ummmmm....might be quiet from here on then LOL

(Errrrrrrrrr, do you like quiet, Chatz?)

I don't think she is toying with his feelings. She is treating him as a friend. It is how I treat my friends. She has said repeatedly that she doesn't want to date him. It has been months, and months, and months.

Atom

How do you treat your friends?

What I am getting at is I do nice little things for my friends all the time. I have even been known to make them soup when they are sick or down. I help them move, detox (from antidepressents), pick up things for them when they are sick, help them organize, clean, whatever. Baking for someone isn't out of the realm of possibility although I hate cooking/baking so I am more likely to buy them something or make something else for them. You do things to make your friends happy and to make them feel loved, wanted, accepted. That doesn't mean you have romantic feelings for them.

* So the whole thing about Libras marrying their best friends is a lie—

Best friends they want to shag.

I am not mad at you. (I really wish people would quit assigning me emotions that I am not demonstrating on my end. It really frustrates me.)

This is the way I see it .... Because you want her to want you the way you want her, you are seeing everything she does as confirmation that she wants you. You are reading into her action and because they conflict you think she is confused. She isn't. She is treating you like a friend.

She isn't manipulating you. She hangs around you because she likes you. She has told you that she doesn't want to date you. You hanging around her and doing things with her suggests that you are okay with that and want to be friends with her.

* And that I don't have a lot of time to spend with them because I will focus my time on a woman who wants to be serious.

This is what you say. It isn't what you do. Because if that were true, you wouldn't be hanging around with this woman. She is assuming that you are okay with friendship.

* She's putting a lot of energy into being "just friends."

What are you talking about? This is how we treat our friends. We make time for you. We talk to you. We do things for you. We listen. We enjoy your company. Some of my male friends I see two/three times a week. Doesn't mean I want to shag them.

* But after two DAYS I usually get calls from people in my life that haven't heard from me.

I don't know this girl's story and her social life. I have a VERY busy social life. (that I am actually trying to cut back because it is exhausting.) It sometimes takes awhile to get back to my friends. My lovers? I get back to right away.

* So tell me. How did I manipulate HER coming over? I IGNORED her!

How did you not manipulate her? You purposefully ignored her. You dropped out of the friendship, changed your behaviour, without any explanation, in hopes that she would come looking for you. You wanted a reaction and you got one.

She felt like you were upset or angry with her so she showed up with a peace offering. I would totally do that.

I shower my friends in love and affection. I worship them. I think every single one of them is brilliant, talented, and amazing. I do everything I can to nurture and support them, their talent, their vision. I give them my time, my energy, my attention. I completely focus on them.

I hold their hands. I tell them they are beautiful. I tell other people we are with how amazing they are. I hug them. I stroke their hair. I do nice things for them. I tell them I love them.

I am pretty much a huge ego boost because I truly, truly believe in who they are as people.

Both male AND female. I completely fall in love with them. Losing a close friend is as bad (if not worse) than losing a lover .

That doesn't mean I have romantic feelings for any of them.

I have been known to sleep in the same bed as my business partner. His roommate has been known to nuzzle up to me and kiss my neck. I have never felt led on (nor have they) because we are friends who work very closely together.

Romantic relationships/ dating is very different. There is a whole formal courtship that goes on that doesn't happen in friendship. Friendship is very casual. Dating not so much.

I can see how people would get confused between Agape for Eros when they have never really experienced it before.