So Hard To Do (Page 2)

That 's beautiful , LS , I love my friends like that too but sometimes , some people feel like being led on . Feeling is very tricky , that's why we need to be careful not to hurt people we love so much 🙂

Thanks Leeeebra and Exam.

I often feel very misunderstood and attacked on these boards.

er, seems to me you're not the only one misunderstood and attacked.

From reading your posts I just want to give up on friends with ANYONE and romance with ANYONE. I could NEVER be a Florence Nightengale friend. I would NEVER lead a woman on by having her sleep in the same bed WONDERING if it was going to be serious.

Obviously, you love PLATONIC friendships and that's working for you. ARE you / HAVE you been in a romantic relationship? Because I went for years "just friends" with everyone. Are you doing that now? And bringing up the whole Agapa / Eros thing---well, those aren't the only types of love.

***QS, so nice to hear from you. Relationships, as I believe you know, can have many definitions. so, yeah, in a relationship but what heckuva kinda relationship? (Seeing it in the rear-view mirror). (Hey, I didn't know you were 76 years old!).***

Hey Atom, oh, I truly understand, I just think your time is way too valuable to waste it on a peron who doesn't reciprocate it. Ya know— She would probably be good for "a friend" just don't seem like she wants to be in a relationship level w/you right now. So, don't waste your time...

Yeah I am old in age, but young at heart!!! Lots of sex and laughing is what keeps my youth!!! LOL!!! Well not as much as I would like due to the distance between me and my loved one. ***sigh***.



***Queenscorpio has re appeared after many days away from boards. (Smiles)***

Hey KG, well, ya know how that Libra/Scorpio love can be. We can create our own world and forget about our other friends for a second, but not for long!!! DXP is where I met my perfect Libra!!!

I often feel very misunderstood and attacked on these boards.

Awwwww LS I was feeling you from day one...no worries, speak your truth as sincerely and lovingly as possible, its up to others to accept it or reject it.

::pointing to eyes::

Yah. "To be or not to be."

LOL

Oh I love learning new words!!!

Why would you want to give up your friendships? I am explaining what friendship means to me and perhaps to other Libras. I believe Libras LOVE their friends.

I don't think of myself as "Florence Nightengale" or a martyr. I think of myself as a loving, supprotive, loyal friend. I am explaining that you may be on the receiving end of a devoted friendship, not on the receiving end of a romantic relationship.

As for me, I lived with a guy for five years and was engaged to another one so yes, I have romantic experience. Both of who are still active in my life because we genuinely care for each other. I have also spent the last year dating a variety of men.

I am looking for my forever partner. I am dating. I do not date my friends, but my dates become my friends.

You assume the only reason why a man would befriend me is because they want to sleep with me. And you are right. Anyone of my platonic friends would love to have sex with me but they also know that we would never be happy long term as I am not what they are looking for, they are not what I am looking for. Que Sera Sera.

There is no leading on and question of whether it will become serious because ... We AREN'T dating.

I actually went 10 yrs with only one male friend. Now, because of the activities I am involved with, I am surrounded by men. It is a very strange thing.

I am only interested in dating men who I have long term potential with. They must be at my level and I must be attracted to them. That doesn't mean I don't care about the other men in my life. I most certainly do! It just means that long term, I know we are not compatible enough to make each other happy. I know they will never be my forever partner so I don't even bother dating them.

well LS you broke that down thoroughly and to be honest your level of understanding when it comes to friendship versus potential longterm love relationships is much better than mine. You KNOW exactly how things are and should be when it comes to friendship and love relationships in your life.

I'm taking notes over here

***Yes Libra's and Scorpio's ca be quite the pair! Mr. Scorpio just called from Joplin Mo where he rode his motorcycle to attend a graduation ceremony. I unfortunately had schedule conflicts, but hey us Libra/Scorpio's do need diversity and the reunions are AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!✨**

Very true indedd KG, he is my peace... As I am going through so much hell in my life right now, he is my sence of peace...

Funny LS, I am a scorp, and I can totally relate and agree with your points of view about friendship. However, I have run into the same situations where others don't understand my point of view, maybe because I am a scorp and I am supposed to be more emotional, but they would have to blame that on all the fire and air in my chart. LOL!!!

Well it just kind of makes sense. You can love someone yet not be compatible for a long term relationship. If you are self-aware, you know what those things are. All relationships break-up because of incompatibility ... why torture everyone when you know it won't work out?

QS - it is totally your fire and air. 😉

"Well it just kind of makes sense. You can love someone yet not be compatible for a long term relationship. If you are self-aware, you know what those things are. All relationships break-up because of incompatibility ... why torture everyone when you know it won't work out?

QS - it is totally your fire and air."

I am not entirely certain of it being a fire / air thing, but I do have a gem moon and a lot of fire...? I can totally relate to a lot of what you said about the things that you like to do for your friends, the concept of loving and respecting your friends (though, being a Scorp, I suppose my circle of love and respect is a bit smaller than yours), and the friendship vs. romantic secularization. I, too, have had close male friends that I have slept with in the same bed, but they level of friendship and comfortability between us was no different than I would have had with a female friend so there was never anything misunderstood there for either of us. Before you two's assessment that it was a fire and air thing, I would have said it was a Scorp / water thing. I need to feel a connection, a romantic, soulful, and most certainly want to jump your bones connection, with someone and if it is not there, they are nothing more than friends. I may love them, but without that connection, I cannot love them romantically. I have heard other Scorps mention similar things about that type of connection and Pisces, as well... Oddly enough, though, the majority of them (if not all, can't remember for sure) were women. Maybeit is just a woman thing?!? Or who knows, maybe it is water assimilation of fire and air traits, just adding a bit more of an emotional edge to an otherwise non-emotional trait?

Friends are friends. When I am "just friends" with someone, they know that quite well. Either they can accept and respect that, or they cannot. If they cannot and continue to push me, they are showing to me that they do not respect me or my boundaries, and that is something that I will not accept in a friendship, much less a romantic relationship. A friendship is all that I am offering, nothing more. Take it or leave it.

That being said, the vast majority of my romantic relationships have come out of friendships, but until they reach that point, they are ONLY friendships. I need to respect and trust the people I am in romantic relationships with and that is a much easier concept from the perspective of friendship than from the perspective of the unknown. But, there is a part of that "connection" that cannot be forced or grown through friendships. It is either there or it is not.

Romantic relationships can develop out of friendships for some, but not for everyone. BUT, when they do, they do because of the bond that forms in that friendship, and unfortuantely, that bond cannot develop properly when the two people in the relationship are not on the same page. When two people are on the same page in a friendship, the ONLY thing that they are trying to achieve out of that relationship is friendship and the enjoyment of another's company. When someone wants something more out of the relationship than another does, you are not on the same page, and can never be. This fact can and will cause a distance and lack in the relationship inhibiting its ability to develop into anything deeper (whether friendship wise or something more).

I also agree with you assessment that aTom's Libra girl more than likely only wants a friendship-based relationship. I do not necessarily agree with her actions, and think that on some level she is leading him on. If I know that a person wants more from a relationship than I do, I generally act differently around them than I would "normal" friends. This is what I was talking about with the "distance". Yes, they are friends, and yes I more than likely care about them as much as every other one of my friends, but this is an exceedingly grey area. The difference is that your friends are on the same page as you. When you do something for them, with them, they take it in the light that it was intended. I don't hold hands wth my guy or girl friends (arms, but not hands), but you do. So, say you have a friend that wants more from you and continues to push for more from you (not accepting your boundaries for the relationship), are you still going to hold their hand knowing that they may take it as something more than you intended it? The point is that she is not leading him on from her persepctive, but from his. It is not fair, and you should be able to act merely based upon your own well meant intentions, but this is exactly why it is a grey area... The only way to make a person respect your boundaries if they won't is to dig the line in the sand.

I also agree with your assessment of her seemingly being embarassed of being in public with him. With some male friends, I can see this in me, as well. It is like a "Hey, baby! Over here! Don't get the wrong impression, I am not with him. I am available." kind of thing. LOL! But, I also see this as evidence to a potential rift in their friendsship caused by his conitnuing to push for a romantic relationship that she does not currently want. While I may do this with some male friends, with my close ones, I never would. They are my friends, and as such, at that specific moment in time while being with them, they are the center of my universe and everything else around us does not matter. The thought doesn't even cross my mind. One, because I generally don't notice anything / anybody else around us. And, two, because I just don't see them in that light. They level of friendship has surpassed the concept of seeing them as a man to just seeing them as a friend, and it doesn't cross my mind that some cute guy might see them as competition...

I don't know, perhaps Libras are different. After reading a lot of the issues that our frineds have posted about their Libra FWB, it would seem that Libras don't seem to hold off on intimate relations even when they know that the other person wants more from them and might be reading more into it than they intend. Perhaps it is the difference between the objective and the subjective... In the objective, everyone is treated and seen as the same, whether they actually are or not...?

Wow Alchemy! You really should write a novel. Not to be funny or anything, but you write A LOT...LOL. Do you talk Nic's head off? heheh j/k.

But if you are FWB you have AGREED to the terms and conditions of that arrangement. You aren't dating. You are *FRIENDS*. If you cannot accept that you are friends and not dating, no offence, but maybe you shouldn't agree to that arrangement. It would simply be my assumption that both people are looking for someone they are interested in dating. The FWB is not someone you are interested in dating otherwise, you would be dating, not friends.

I understand your point. Tons of men try to date me on the sly, befriend me in hopes of getting me to agree to a relationship with them, I do not act the same around them as I do other friends. But if I TELL them I am not interested in dating them, and do so for MONTHS, I assume they know where I stand. Eventually, I will pull the plug on the friendship if I can. If we work together, as I think Atom has mentioned, it makes it that much more tricky to navigate.

I don't know what this woman's story is but after this many months, I would take her at her word that she isn't interested in dating him. And if he doesn't like it, he needs to end the friendship.

And things like baking a cake, I don't see as crossing the line. I see it as being friendly.

The hand thing is on the line. If I were her, I wouldn't do it but I don't think she is initiating and I am not sure if she is capable of saying "don't".

My feeling, and I could be completely wrong here, is she feels backed into a corner. She has said many, many times that she isn't interested in dating him yet she values his friendship immensely. Since he is not respecting her "I don't want to date you" stance, she is torn and unsure how to keep the friendship yet not be sucked into a relationship she doesn't want.

Just my gut based on a personal experience.

"Wow Alchemy! You really should write a novel. Not to be funny or anything, but you write A LOT...LOL."

Amusingly enough, I have read that suggestion in several of my astrological readings... LOL! Nah, I just tend to write a lot when I have a lot to say, and for the most part not write at all when I don't. Plus, I WAS responding to 70+ posts worth of comments... 😛

"Do you talk Nic's head off? heheh j/k."

On occasion, but I think we take turns... LOL! Jk... Actually, most of the time there are far more fun things that I would prefer to do with my mouth and his head... 😉

And yes, I can easily have sex with someone I am not romantically attached too or interested in but am physically attracted too. It really isn't a big deal to me. If they are attached to me, it makes it messy and I don't muck about with that.

"My feeling, and I could be completely wrong here, is she feels backed into a corner. She has said many, many times that she isn't interested in dating him yet she values his friendship immensely. Since he is not respecting her "I don't want to date you" stance, she is torn and unsure how to keep the friendship yet not be sucked into a relationship she doesn't want"

Yeah, I would definitely agree.

OMG! We agree!

* sparrow passes out! *

🙂

"And yes, I can easily have sex with someone I am not romantically attached too or interested in but am physically attracted too. It really isn't a big deal to me. If they are attached to me, it makes it messy and I don't muck about with that. "

Yeah, that is kind of what I was talking about with the FWB thing, the messiness when one person wants it to be more. From some Libras continuation of the FWB relationship even when they know the other wants more, it would seem that some don't see it as messy... BUT, most of them do tend to be males... Maybe that is the difference?

I don't know, I have a hard time objectively discussing FWB because I have a hard time subjectively comprehending it. Sex just for sex sake can be physically satisfying, but not completely satisfying to me. It can satisfy a physical need, but there is another need I need it to satisfy and it seems on a great level unfilling if it can't. All things considered, I would rather just stick with the menage-a-trois of me, myself, and I in that case...

"OMG! We agree!

* sparrow passes out! *"

ROFLMAO!

I think people need to be more self-aware when they get into these situations. If they are hoping for more, they need to be honest with themselves. If you can't detach the two, you are headed for heartache.

Oddly, I find men more emotional about sex than I am. Casual sex usually freaks them out. They get attached and start freaking out.

I am not a fan of solo sex. I prefer sex with a friend. Some itches you just can't scratch by yourself. What can I say? I am a Leeebra! Share the joy. Share the pleasure.

* Sometimes we don't want to see things as they are.

ding! ding! ding! We have a winner!

al, I really love your comments; very thoughtful and balanced and articulate.

ls, my reference to Florence Nightengale was in reference to being a NURTURER---she was a NURSE after all----like a few things I wrote in the Forum, you seemed to take them in another way than intended. You indicated that people add feelings to your posts you never intended, yet the first response I received from you after this Topic said you thought I HATED you---SOoooooooooo who's adding things that weren't there?

You all make very good and strong points. No matter what signals / communication Libra Girl has given me it boils down to, "Why do I try?" After all, according to this feedback, I am "manipulating" whether trying to have a solid friendship or more. HEY, I was just doing what some of my LIBRA friends on this Board suggested---is THAT manipulation? And most feedback on this Board comes from women---so do I just quit being a MAN? THAT's not being true to my nature, ls. (Do women REALLY want to know what a man feels? 'Seems to backfire when we do. nic' may be the exception. Then ls gave us the rather intriguing theory that I may be way-off with my relationship(s) due to SELF-AWARENESS. Very interesting. IF I really know myself, well, hmmmm, I may as just as well GIVE UP! Despite the fact that is entirely against my nature and my other relationships are healthy and dynamic.

ls, I didn't share this to put you on the defense. There is something rather intriguing in your character, IMO, that you automatically take "the other side" in a discussion. You and the rest put ol' Atom in the "third person" pretty quick there. It's okay. I have MANY girls / women in my life that are just "pals" and if that's the only way it's gonna be / can be with Libra Girl, than so be it. From reading the posts in this Forum, overall I don't seem to have a lot of relationship problems most Libran have.

Thank you, kg. You are so sweet. And I hope you know I always respect what you say. Yeah, you haven't pulled any punches, but that's okay because I can tell you are a wonderful person.

Bottom line Atom... If she has told you she doesn't want to be in a relationship with you, then I would advise that you not persue it. I am positive there are other girls dying to be in your company/relationship with you. I do understand that you like this girl, and she seems to really like you as a friend. Only and only if you can handle it, be a freind to her. Librans can be very good friends.

Sometimes things are not meant to be even when we really want them at that time, who knows though, things always change.... It is a wait and see game.

Cheers!!!

Thank you, QS. I hope you know I always take your advice to heart.

***Thank you, QS. I hope you know I always take your advice to heart.***

Awww, thanks, I am just adding my two cents and one penny as I have your best interest at heart.

I'm doing the "wait and see" per your advice.

Just dont wait too long buddy..let her see whats she?s missing, nothing brings a Libra back to you quicker than that.

Thanks, Sola!

: )

"Just dont wait too long buddy..let her see whats she?s missing, nothing brings a Libra back to you quicker than that"

Oh yeah, I can 2nd and 3rd that one!!! 😛

Its true though!! If i know, or even think for a second that you?re interested, i have THE most blas? attitude ever, as Atom is finding out. The second he leaves her out cold, she?ll turn it round so fast, he wont know whats happening. I mean, no contact in any shape or form. Sure, think about her, but dont do anything about it. Damn, its the hardest thing to do, but good things ome to those who wait...just dont let her know that you?re waiting (thats the secret). Enjoy...!

Sola...that is so true...this I do know for a fact....it is hard to do but it worked every freaking time!!!

so why exactly do you do that when you think that somebody might be interested— why not enjoy it? why push them away— is there a reason for this? I mean a real reason??

Because you cannot be in pursuit of the whole world but also because we don't accept love lying down. We need to conquer you, then we feel much more alive and feel that we deserve the reward after all our hard work. It develops and heightens our feelings, we have to reach the top of the hill before we can accept your love (when interested in it). It's a way of self-actualisation in our relations with true objects of affection.

There, I said it!

Wow!!! awesome answer - quite rewarding actually LOL. Just had to be reminded on why we have to make ourselves scarce from time to time.....thanks for that. I have come to accept that nothing is normal with Librans...define normal— hmmmm Im confusing myself *yawns*

ON that note Im going to bed...I wish you all a pleasant Tuesday 🙂 Tuesday for me is done

Bed?? Its only lunchtime here...and im tired already!!

I know i do that "thing" because if someone likes me too quickly or too intensely, it makes me feel claustrophobic. I mean, being too available just makes you become a habit, there?s nothing to wonder about or analyse..the things that libra loves to do. So, if you cant speak to us or see us, we want to know why, and it also means we can practice or charm skills on you..we enjoy a challenge, secretly of course! If you are on our tail 24/7...we are just going to get bored, and there?s nothing you can say or do to change our minds.

If you love us, dont make us aware of it in a smothering way, keep yourself at a tiny bit of a distance and sometimes, not often, do somethng OTT romantic and then go away again!! Its 100% guaranteed to work.

Chatz, i personally cant enjoy all that because it might be too good to be true, so i?d rather keep you at arms length, then when it goes wrong, it confirms my suspicions...im the most cynical person in the world, obiously!!

Actually, I am not on the defense at all. I think I am quite right in my point of view. What I was trying to do was give you permission to hate me because it is probably easier than hating the girl and the situation and I am rocking your boat.

Of course, I take the opposite side. I am five planets of LIBRA .... five planets! This is what Libra does it brings the other side. That is what the balance is about! That is what the justice is about. This is what the partnership/marriage is about bringing opposites into balance. I am five planets of justice baby .... four planets of truth. I can be quite insufferable because I have no problem being alone against the mob and have been doing it since pre-school. lol! When people say dog ... I say cat ... automatically. I MUST bring balance which means I MUST bring the other side. Libras aren't balanced ... they are balancing. As such we rock the boat all the time, but Venus blessed us with clever smiles, beauty, charm, and grace so we can rock the boat without overturning it. (For the most part)

What I was talking about being more self-aware I was talking to alcheme about FWBs. I wasn't even talking about you or to you.

I don't really consider myself to be plagued by relationship problems. I never have been. Usually I understand my lovers better than they understand themselves. You would only find one who does not think the world of me because I usually act from a place of compassion, kindness, and true love. I do what is right for EVERYONE not just me.

Most of my past lovers are still in my life and love me. Even the ones that I had relationships with for several years. That alone bodes well for who I am.

Sola....thanks again....I guess after last week of hearing from/seeing my man everyday this week will be quite silent....it was bound to happen...but I can keep busy AGAIN!!!!! The good thing is he is now busy too with football training two nights a week, his daughter 2 nights a week and on the weekend - doesnt give him much time to be with anybody else *giggles*

As long as he doesnt get too busy for you sweetie...there?s giving space, and then there?s giving too much. Its a hard balance, but you?ll be fine 🙂

Well if he gets TOO busy that's ok too...as long as he got out of the misery he was in Im happy...if we're not meant to be, then so be it...but there's no sign of that YET lol

"Hope springs eternal," Chatz.