A controversial topic

I made a thread earlier but dxp logged me out.

So it won’t be as long. But I’m only doing it again because people have requested it.

Netherlands has recently approved assisted euthanasia for mental health problems. A 28 year old girl is scheduled to die in May 2024 because she can’t take the soul crushing pain anymore. Her team of psychiatrists have said they’ve done all they could. She will never get better.

She has mild autism, depression, anxiety and ADHD. She has a flat, a boyfriend, parents and 2 cats. But all she wants to do is die in a dignified manner.

In Netherlands, 5-10% of all deaths are by euthanasia.

Is this a new evolution when it comes to humanity and death?

Yeah I read about this. It's sad and it did hit me right square in the heart. I hope she reconsider death and find a solution.

we should have the option

Posted by borednbeautiful
I made a thread earlier but dxp logged me out.

So it won’t be as long. But I’m only doing it again because people have requested it.

Netherlands has recently approved assisted euthanasia for mental health problems. A 28 year old girl is scheduled to die in May 2024 because she can’t take the soul crushing pain anymore. Her team of psychiatrists have said they’ve done all they could. She will never get better.

She has mild autism, depression, anxiety and ADHD. She has a flat, a boyfriend, parents and 2 cats. But all she wants to do is die in a dignified manner.

In Netherlands, 5-10% of all deaths are by euthanasia.

Is this a new evolution when it comes to humanity and death?

To answer your question: in the Netherlands, apparently yes.

Ideas like that are going to gain traction in other parts of the world soon enough. If that's what the people want, that's what they're going to get.

If it was me and I was in severe mental or physical pain, I’d like the option to live or not

It’s a very personal choice

This ⬆️

Switzerland has a prototype for suicide pods that may (or may not) be approved.

There’s an alarming increase in suicide amongst the elderly in South Korea, oddly, in a culture that is known for valuing and respecting their elders.

It’s grim.

I have no idea how I feel about this. When I first seen the news, I was in shock.

And now few hours later, I am still conflicted and confused.

Switzerland has Dignitas which was founded in 1998, they assist people with suicide

I’d like to have the option as I think it should be everyone’s personal choice. Yet on the other hand I grew up religious and believe that only God should be able to take a life. So I guess I’m conflicted too. It’s like the whole abortion thing. I think women should have the right to choose what is right for them, yet I don’t think it should be in anyone’s hands but Gods. So I dunno…that’s tough. 🤷‍♀️

Posted by xyzabc
I’d like to have the option as I think it should be everyone’s personal choice. Yet on the other hand I grew up religious and believe that only God should be able to take a life. So I guess I’m conflicted too. It’s like the whole abortion thing. I think women should have the right to choose what is right for them, yet I don’t think it should be in anyone’s hands but Gods. So I dunno…that’s tough. 🤷‍♀️

You pretty much summed up how I think and feel. Very confused and conflicted. I see both sides of the coin, but I tend to see some things as a sin/against God’s will. Part of me thinks we should endure whatever cards we are dealt, as things can always shift. Even if they can’t be changed, that’s what makes us grow as a person.

But then again what is the point in growth through suffering? Why isn’t God more loving and merciful?

It’s very, very tough. Because we don’t see the whole picture.

Posted by borednbeautiful

Posted by xyzabc
I’d like to have the option as I think it should be everyone’s personal choice. Yet on the other hand I grew up religious and believe that only God should be able to take a life. So I guess I’m conflicted too. It’s like the whole abortion thing. I think women should have the right to choose what is right for them, yet I don’t think it should be in anyone’s hands but Gods. So I dunno…that’s tough. 🤷‍♀️

You pretty much summed up how I think and feel. Very confused and conflicted. I see both sides of the coin, but I tend to see some things as a sin/against God’s will. Part of me thinks we should endure whatever cards we are dealt, as things can always shift. Even if they can’t be changed, that’s what makes us grow as a person.

But then again what is the point in growth through suffering? Why isn’t God more loving and merciful?

It’s very, very tough. Because we don’t see the whole picture.

click to expand

Exactly! So I can’t really say which side I’m on with certainty.

Posted by borednbeautiful
I made a thread earlier but dxp logged me out.

So it won’t be as long. But I’m only doing it again because people have requested it.

Netherlands has recently approved assisted euthanasia for mental health problems. A 28 year old girl is scheduled to die in May 2024 because she can’t take the soul crushing pain anymore. Her team of psychiatrists have said they’ve done all they could. She will never get better.

She has mild autism, depression, anxiety and ADHD. She has a flat, a boyfriend, parents and 2 cats. But all she wants to do is die in a dignified manner.

In Netherlands, 5-10% of all deaths are by euthanasia.

Is this a new evolution when it comes to humanity and death?

No ! That’s what I have ( diagnosis) and after 15yrs in a week spam the depression.,Sadness has left n now I am happy. So a shift can occur that fast. So no that is not a threshold to use euthanasia

this shit has been going on in canada for years now.

They're also spreading propaganda to preteens about sex change.

This is what happens to societies when you don't finish the job.

Adults should be able to choose to live or die, it should be controlled by lots of testing, assessments, and time, by different doctors. Obviously people shouldn’t be able to make a hasty decision based on a fleeting emotion. But ultimately people can commit suicide if they really wanted to, so why not allow it in a controlled environment.

I never understood why we as humans have to live through agonizing terminal illnesses where we deteriorate and suffer. We put our beloved animals down so they don’t have to suffer. If I was terminally ill and had a choice, I would choose to depart on a high note, before I and my loved ones had to endure my rapid deterioration……

So we force treatments for public health but then idly sit by while 20 somethings with mental illnesses choose to end it with “dignity”. In any western civilisation with the advent of health interventions available to young Gen this is a travesty.

Let people choose only when it’s suicide

Only when it’s abortion

Only when it’s some low grade shit

Since so many people are for it, I'm going to take the opposite view. I don't feel people should have the right, whatsoever. The amount of people that would effect in their personal lives, and maybe even beyond is wrong. Forcing people to live with you signing up for suicide is absolutely wrong. Also the people who apply whatever means to kill the person should be arrested for murder.

Making your whole family and friends live with the fact you killed yourself is messed up. I don't care how bad your life is, there are people who care about you, or even need you in their life. Even if you haven't even met them yet.

I don't typically take the moral high ground in most cases, but I think getting help and group meetings are better then forcing the world to live without you.

Posted by Soul
Since so many people are for it, I'm going to take the opposite view. I don't feel people should have the right, whatsoever. The amount of people that would effect in their personal lives, and maybe even beyond is wrong. Forcing people to live with you signing up for suicide is absolutely wrong. Also the people who apply whatever means to kill the person should be arrested for murder.

Making your whole family and friends live with the fact you killed yourself is messed up. I don't care how bad your life is, there are people who care about you, or even need you in their life. Even if you haven't even met them yet.

I don't typically take the moral high ground in most cases, but I think getting help and group meetings are better then forcing the world to live without you.

Since I'm a Libra I'll argue with you 😂

What's to say forcing people to live with that mentally ill person is better? Have you ever lived long term with someone who's depressed and suffering from mental illness? That can take quite a toll as well.

How do you decide which is worse?

Besides, shouldn't the person closing be closing what's best for them, not others? They have to live with the unescapable pain 24/7.

Posted by TheGreenFairie

Posted by Soul
Since so many people are for it, I'm going to take the opposite view. I don't feel people should have the right, whatsoever. The amount of people that would effect in their personal lives, and maybe even beyond is wrong. Forcing people to live with you signing up for suicide is absolutely wrong. Also the people who apply whatever means to kill the person should be arrested for murder.

Making your whole family and friends live with the fact you killed yourself is messed up. I don't care how bad your life is, there are people who care about you, or even need you in their life. Even if you haven't even met them yet.

I don't typically take the moral high ground in most cases, but I think getting help and group meetings are better then forcing the world to live without you.

Since I'm a Libra I'll argue with you 😂

What's to say forcing people to live with that mentally ill person is better? Have you ever lived long term with someone who's depressed and suffering from mental illness? That can take quite a toll as well.

How do you decide which is worse?

Besides, shouldn't the person closing be closing what's best for them, not others? They have to live with the unescapable pain 24/7.

click to expand

I see your point, but the problem is people would abuse it. Sure, some people would use it that truly would be better off dead. People would also use it for a reasons that could have been avoided with proper help. Also no, I don't feel people should kill themselves because they feel it's better for them and not others. That is a ridiculous take, because people who want to kill themselves don't care about themselves, or others whatsoever. They are completely void of care. So they are fine with scaring people. That's fucked up. People who agree with that take should feel ashamed.

So my question to you is how do we meet in the middle?

If you've got phantom pain from your leg that was aputated after a car accident yeah I think you should be able to. Idk maybe she had some horrible psychological trauma or something but imo it sounds like someone who has relied on the system and modern science to try and get her through some mental health shit and it failed her (no surprises there) and now she continues to lean on that same system which is now offering to kill her and it even suggests it's a good idea.

Posted by Soul

Posted by TheGreenFairie

Posted by Soul
Since so many people are for it, I'm going to take the opposite view. I don't feel people should have the right, whatsoever. The amount of people that would effect in their personal lives, and maybe even beyond is wrong. Forcing people to live with you signing up for suicide is absolutely wrong. Also the people who apply whatever means to kill the person should be arrested for murder.

Making your whole family and friends live with the fact you killed yourself is messed up. I don't care how bad your life is, there are people who care about you, or even need you in their life. Even if you haven't even met them yet.

I don't typically take the moral high ground in most cases, but I think getting help and group meetings are better then forcing the world to live without you.

Since I'm a Libra I'll argue with you 😂



What's to say forcing people to live with that mentally ill person is better? Have you ever lived long term with someone who's depressed and suffering from mental illness? That can take quite a toll as well.



How do you decide which is worse?



Besides, shouldn't the person closing be closing what's best for them, not others? They have to live with the unescapable pain 24/7.

I see your point, but the problem is people would abuse it. Sure, some people would use it that truly would be better off dead. People would also use it for a reasons that could have been avoided with proper help. Also no, I don't feel people should kill themselves because they feel it's better for them and not others. That is a ridiculous take, because people who want to kill themselves don't care about themselves, or others whatsoever. They are completely void of care. So they are fine with scaring people. That's fucked up. People who agree with that take should feel ashamed.

So my question to you is how do we meet in the middle?

click to expand

Well, I'd say if people want yo take advantage of it, there should be mandatory counseling involved. I mean, consider also that this is a medically assisted version, the other option of pills/guns/etc (doing it yourself) still exists so if it's too inaccessible it won't stop anyone. But I'd imagine the trama of finding someone who took matters in their own hands vs it being done in a medical planned environment is a consideration as well.

I can't say that they don't care. Remember that most people in that even consider it are battling mental health or physical health issues that can definitely have an effect on perspective . They could feel like a burden on others for instance

Posted by TheGreenFairie

Posted by Soul

Posted by TheGreenFairie

Posted by Soul
Since so many people are for it, I'm going to take the opposite view. I don't feel people should have the right, whatsoever. The amount of people that would effect in their personal lives, and maybe even beyond is wrong. Forcing people to live with you signing up for suicide is absolutely wrong. Also the people who apply whatever means to kill the person should be arrested for murder.

Making your whole family and friends live with the fact you killed yourself is messed up. I don't care how bad your life is, there are people who care about you, or even need you in their life. Even if you haven't even met them yet.

I don't typically take the moral high ground in most cases, but I think getting help and group meetings are better then forcing the world to live without you.

Since I'm a Libra I'll argue with you 😂





What's to say forcing people to live with that mentally ill person is better? Have you ever lived long term with someone who's depressed and suffering from mental illness? That can take quite a toll as well.





How do you decide which is worse?





Besides, shouldn't the person closing be closing what's best for them, not others? They have to live with the unescapable pain 24/7.

I see your point, but the problem is people would abuse it. Sure, some people would use it that truly would be better off dead. People would also use it for a reasons that could have been avoided with proper help. Also no, I don't feel people should kill themselves because they feel it's better for them and not others. That is a ridiculous take, because people who want to kill themselves don't care about themselves, or others whatsoever. They are completely void of care. So they are fine with scaring people. That's fucked up. People who agree with that take should feel ashamed.



So my question to you is how do we meet in the middle?

Well, I'd say if people want yo take advantage of it, there should be mandatory counseling involved. I mean, consider also that this is a medically assisted version, the other option of pills/guns/etc (doing it yourself) still exists so if it's too inaccessible it won't stop anyone. But I'd imagine the trama of finding someone who took matters in their own hands vs it being done in a medical planned environment is a consideration as well.

I can't say that they don't care. Remember that most people in that even consider it are battling mental health or physical health issues that can definitely have an effect on perspective . They could feel like a burden on others for instance

click to expand

I think out of everything it's wrong, and truly fucked up people would agree with this method rather than finding the person actual help. Like how is funding into something to kill people better then funding into helping find people the right help, and finding them groups of people with like-minded problems where they can vent and feel heard for once? I think that is the point you are missing. Imagine going to a facility to kill yourself and getting denied and feeling hopeless, when that facility could have been a place to get real help, and speak with people? At least with the latter they have an actual god damn chance.

Posted by Soul

Posted by TheGreenFairie

Posted by Soul

Posted by TheGreenFairie

Posted by Soul
Since so many people are for it, I'm going to take the opposite view. I don't feel people should have the right, whatsoever. The amount of people that would effect in their personal lives, and maybe even beyond is wrong. Forcing people to live with you signing up for suicide is absolutely wrong. Also the people who apply whatever means to kill the person should be arrested for murder.

Making your whole family and friends live with the fact you killed yourself is messed up. I don't care how bad your life is, there are people who care about you, or even need you in their life. Even if you haven't even met them yet.

I don't typically take the moral high ground in most cases, but I think getting help and group meetings are better then forcing the world to live without you.

Since I'm a Libra I'll argue with you 😂







What's to say forcing people to live with that mentally ill person is better? Have you ever lived long term with someone who's depressed and suffering from mental illness? That can take quite a toll as well.







How do you decide which is worse?







Besides, shouldn't the person closing be closing what's best for them, not others? They have to live with the unescapable pain 24/7.

I see your point, but the problem is people would abuse it. Sure, some people would use it that truly would be better off dead. People would also use it for a reasons that could have been avoided with proper help. Also no, I don't feel people should kill themselves because they feel it's better for them and not others. That is a ridiculous take, because people who want to kill themselves don't care about themselves, or others whatsoever. They are completely void of care. So they are fine with scaring people. That's fucked up. People who agree with that take should feel ashamed.





So my question to you is how do we meet in the middle?

Well, I'd say if people want yo take advantage of it, there should be mandatory counseling involved. I mean, consider also that this is a medically assisted version, the other option of pills/guns/etc (doing it yourself) still exists so if it's too inaccessible it won't stop anyone. But I'd imagine the trama of finding someone who took matters in their own hands vs it being done in a medical planned environment is a consideration as well.



I can't say that they don't care. Remember that most people in that even consider it are battling mental health or physical health issues that can definitely have an effect on perspective . They could feel like a burden on others for instance

I think out of everything it's wrong, and truly fucked up people would agree with this method rather than finding the person actual help. Like how is funding into something to kill people better then funding into helping find people the right help, and finding them groups of people with like-minded problems where they can vent and feel heard for once? I think that is the point you are missing. Imagine going to a facility to kill yourself and getting denied and feeling hopeless, when that facility could have been a place to get real help, and speak with people? At least with the latter they have an actual god damn chance.

click to expand

Hence the obligatory counseling.

Remember though this isn't just about mental health issues, but also physical ones. If someone is genuinely terminally ill, or in irreversible constant pain, who has a right to tell them they should continue to suffer? Is it being selfish to forcing them to live with no possibility of getting better? What possible reason could there be to do that?

Posted by TheGreenFairie

Posted by Soul

Posted by TheGreenFairie

Posted by Soul

Posted by TheGreenFairie

Posted by Soul
Since so many people are for it, I'm going to take the opposite view. I don't feel people should have the right, whatsoever. The amount of people that would effect in their personal lives, and maybe even beyond is wrong. Forcing people to live with you signing up for suicide is absolutely wrong. Also the people who apply whatever means to kill the person should be arrested for murder.

Making your whole family and friends live with the fact you killed yourself is messed up. I don't care how bad your life is, there are people who care about you, or even need you in their life. Even if you haven't even met them yet.

I don't typically take the moral high ground in most cases, but I think getting help and group meetings are better then forcing the world to live without you.

Since I'm a Libra I'll argue with you 😂









What's to say forcing people to live with that mentally ill person is better? Have you ever lived long term with someone who's depressed and suffering from mental illness? That can take quite a toll as well.









How do you decide which is worse?









Besides, shouldn't the person closing be closing what's best for them, not others? They have to live with the unescapable pain 24/7.

I see your point, but the problem is people would abuse it. Sure, some people would use it that truly would be better off dead. People would also use it for a reasons that could have been avoided with proper help. Also no, I don't feel people should kill themselves because they feel it's better for them and not others. That is a ridiculous take, because people who want to kill themselves don't care about themselves, or others whatsoever. They are completely void of care. So they are fine with scaring people. That's fucked up. People who agree with that take should feel ashamed.







So my question to you is how do we meet in the middle?

Well, I'd say if people want yo take advantage of it, there should be mandatory counseling involved. I mean, consider also that this is a medically assisted version, the other option of pills/guns/etc (doing it yourself) still exists so if it's too inaccessible it won't stop anyone. But I'd imagine the trama of finding someone who took matters in their own hands vs it being done in a medical planned environment is a consideration as well.





I can't say that they don't care. Remember that most people in that even consider it are battling mental health or physical health issues that can definitely have an effect on perspective . They could feel like a burden on others for instance

I think out of everything it's wrong, and truly fucked up people would agree with this method rather than finding the person actual help. Like how is funding into something to kill people better then funding into helping find people the right help, and finding them groups of people with like-minded problems where they can vent and feel heard for once? I think that is the point you are missing. Imagine going to a facility to kill yourself and getting denied and feeling hopeless, when that facility could have been a place to get real help, and speak with people? At least with the latter they have an actual god damn chance.

Hence the obligatory counseling.

Remember though this isn't just about mental health issues, but also physical ones. If someone is genuinely terminally ill, or in irreversible constant pain, who has a right to tell them they should continue to suffer? Is it being selfish to forcing them to live with no possibility of getting better? What possible reason could there be to do that?

click to expand

We already have that though, at least in the US. It's called hospice care

Posted by borednbeautiful
I made a thread earlier but dxp logged me out.

So it won’t be as long. But I’m only doing it again because people have requested it.

Netherlands has recently approved assisted euthanasia for mental health problems. A 28 year old girl is scheduled to die in May 2024 because she can’t take the soul crushing pain anymore. Her team of psychiatrists have said they’ve done all they could. She will never get better.

She has mild autism, depression, anxiety and ADHD. She has a flat, a boyfriend, parents and 2 cats. But all she wants to do is die in a dignified manner.

In Netherlands, 5-10% of all deaths are by euthanasia.

Is this a new evolution when it comes to humanity and death?

I'm sick and tired of this notion that life is worth living at any cost. Who's to say that? You and I? Or the person who decides that it's not?

"But....but.... they have mental issues. They do not really want to die"

Yes they do. Suffering from mental illness isn't a seperate thing, it's very much a part of you in varying degrees.

As someone working in the mental health field, I can say for certain, life is not always worth living. It's nothing I can relate to myself, but I do see it in my work and I have no argument against it.

Except that I don't want to see loved ones want to die. But that's just emotional logic.

Though one type of survivors never attempt suicide again and express gratitude they got a second chance. I guess that at least speaks for the argument that we should aspire to prevent suicides, not aid them.

But yeah I definitely see how life is not worth living for some people and who am I to project my journey onto them, as if we are the same person and they just haven't figured out something worthwhile about life that I have figured out.

More and more ppl are suffering from metal health issues than ever before in history, all while we have more mental health aid programs and psychologists and psychiatrists than ever before in history. Something isn't adding up.

It may sound harsh but working in the field, I honestly don't see any solution in sight. I had the thought before.. all these people we are trying to keep away from selfmedicating with drugs, alcohol, etc. Help those who seek help. The rest, open up clinics where they can drug themselves to death without resorting to a life of crime. It's more cost-effective than the programs we have.

So much in today's health care fields revolve around keeping ppl alive who do not care to be alive. Instead, spend those budgets on helping ppl who do want to live.

Off topic but

What I don't understand about the death industry, is why the US is finding these complicated ways to kill people on death row like lethal injection, having to time 3 different substances and make sure it's done properly..

I mean it ain't that complicated to kill a person humanely. Just give them an overdose of morphine!

It's really mind-boggling that they have gas chambers, lethal injection and the electric chair when there are way simpler and humane options. A dog is put down more humanely than a convict.

If someone is in absolute agony and they want to end things they should be allowed that choice. So waiting for God to step in means that they live a live of torture because they’re not allowed to choose

I think that’s total bullshit.

In Ireland people who took their own lives weren’t allowed a normal burial and were put in separate graveyards and weren’t allowed “into heaven”. They were viewed as sinners.

Very Christian hey?

Again, total bullshit.

I support it, as long as they introduce a 1-3 year waiting list and promote that the close family members should abstain from trying to influence the patient's decision during this time.

Posted by xkachi
The government makes it almost impossible and extremely difficult for other people to have good quality life. All these institutions profit from the suffering of people. From our food, educational system, health system and socialization, it's terrible.

In countries that are more focused in profit, you can see the quality of life diminished based on how people live and their routine. The rent and food being costly, who has time for leisure and pleasure when you have bills to pay? We're constantly bombarded that our bodies don't get the rest it needs.

Give me a way to die with dignity.

👏👏👏

A government is never legitimate, that's the only compass you need

BTW these laws aren't about ending painful agony. Doctors can already do that with morphin or a bunch of other products and they do it every day. I saw it happen in my family, they know how and when to kill.

These laws are about euthanazing people because they have depression or because they are in financial difficulty.

Posted by Enfant-Terrible-II

Posted by borednbeautiful
I made a thread earlier but dxp logged me out.
So it won’t be as long. But I’m only doing it again because people have requested it.
Netherlands has recently approved assisted euthanasia for mental health problems. A 28 year old girl is scheduled to die in May 2024 because she can’t take the soul crushing pain anymore. Her team of psychiatrists have said they’ve done all they could. She will never get better.
She has mild autism, depression, anxiety and ADHD. She has a flat, a boyfriend, parents and 2 cats. But all she wants to do is die in a dignified manner.
In Netherlands, 5-10% of all deaths are by euthanasia.
Is this a new evolution when it comes to humanity and death?

I'm sick and tired of this notion that life is worth living at any cost. Who's to say that? You and I? Or the person who decides that it's not?

"But....but.... they have mental issues. They do not really want to die"

Yes they do. Suffering from mental illness isn't a seperate thing, it's very much a part of you in varying degrees.

As someone working in the mental health field, I can say for certain, life is not always worth living. It's nothing I can relate to myself, but I do see it in my work and I have no argument against it.

Except that I don't want to see loved ones want to die. But that's just emotional logic.

Though one type of survivors never attempt suicide again and express gratitude they got a second chance. I guess that at least speaks for the argument that we should aspire to prevent suicides, not aid them.

But yeah I definitely see how life is not worth living for some people and who am I to project my journey onto them, as if we are the same person and they just haven't figured out something worthwhile about life that I have figured out.

click to expand

You need to learn to project yourself outside of them, and into everyone as a whole.

I think you are too closed minded. Put yourself outside of them, and into their loved ones, friends, pets, and even acquaintances. Your take is truly letting people down that could have had a chance. Again, funds should be put into making people better, not murdering them.

Posted by Soul

Posted by Enfant-Terrible-II

Posted by borednbeautiful
I made a thread earlier but dxp logged me out.
So it won’t be as long. But I’m only doing it again because people have requested it.
Netherlands has recently approved assisted euthanasia for mental health problems. A 28 year old girl is scheduled to die in May 2024 because she can’t take the soul crushing pain anymore. Her team of psychiatrists have said they’ve done all they could. She will never get better.
She has mild autism, depression, anxiety and ADHD. She has a flat, a boyfriend, parents and 2 cats. But all she wants to do is die in a dignified manner.
In Netherlands, 5-10% of all deaths are by euthanasia.
Is this a new evolution when it comes to humanity and death?

I'm sick and tired of this notion that life is worth living at any cost. Who's to say that? You and I? Or the person who decides that it's not?

"But....but.... they have mental issues. They do not really want to die"

Yes they do. Suffering from mental illness isn't a seperate thing, it's very much a part of you in varying degrees.

As someone working in the mental health field, I can say for certain, life is not always worth living. It's nothing I can relate to myself, but I do see it in my work and I have no argument against it.

Except that I don't want to see loved ones want to die. But that's just emotional logic.

Though one type of survivors never attempt suicide again and express gratitude they got a second chance. I guess that at least speaks for the argument that we should aspire to prevent suicides, not aid them.

But yeah I definitely see how life is not worth living for some people and who am I to project my journey onto them, as if we are the same person and they just haven't figured out something worthwhile about life that I have figured out.

You need to learn to project yourself outside of them, and into everyone as a whole.

I think you are too closed minded. Put yourself outside of them, and into their loved ones, friends, pets, and even acquaintances. Your take is truly letting people down that could have had a chance. Again, funds should be put into making people better, not murdering them.

click to expand

Read my other post in this thread... As someone working in the mental health field AND living in one of the most generous countries as far as "socialized healthcare" goes, funds towards mental health are already astronomical here yet no one seems to be getting better, quite the opposite.



I say focus on those who want to live. Stop wasting taxpayers money on lost causes. I'm not saying fuck them, I'm just saying there is a limit to how many fucks a system should give before moving on.



As for your second point... If a person's life is measured by how much "loved ones, friends, pets, and acquaintances" would suffer from one's passing .. what conclusions would you draw regarding the worth or importance of a life that has no one to mourn them?

Point is one cannot be expected to live or stay alive solely for other people.



Abigail Shrier makes some interesting points about how therapy actually makes ppl feel worse in a lot of cases. Maybe the solution is some of what I was proposing.. stop trying to help people at any cost, and maybe they will resort to helping themselves

Posted by Soul

Posted by TheGreenFairie

Posted by Soul

Posted by TheGreenFairie

Posted by Soul

Posted by TheGreenFairie

Posted by Soul
Since so many people are for it, I'm going to take the opposite view. I don't feel people should have the right, whatsoever. The amount of people that would effect in their personal lives, and maybe even beyond is wrong. Forcing people to live with you signing up for suicide is absolutely wrong. Also the people who apply whatever means to kill the person should be arrested for murder.

Making your whole family and friends live with the fact you killed yourself is messed up. I don't care how bad your life is, there are people who care about you, or even need you in their life. Even if you haven't even met them yet.

I don't typically take the moral high ground in most cases, but I think getting help and group meetings are better then forcing the world to live without you.

Since I'm a Libra I'll argue with you 😂











What's to say forcing people to live with that mentally ill person is better? Have you ever lived long term with someone who's depressed and suffering from mental illness? That can take quite a toll as well.











How do you decide which is worse?











Besides, shouldn't the person closing be closing what's best for them, not others? They have to live with the unescapable pain 24/7.

I see your point, but the problem is people would abuse it. Sure, some people would use it that truly would be better off dead. People would also use it for a reasons that could have been avoided with proper help. Also no, I don't feel people should kill themselves because they feel it's better for them and not others. That is a ridiculous take, because people who want to kill themselves don't care about themselves, or others whatsoever. They are completely void of care. So they are fine with scaring people. That's fucked up. People who agree with that take should feel ashamed.









So my question to you is how do we meet in the middle?

Well, I'd say if people want yo take advantage of it, there should be mandatory counseling involved. I mean, consider also that this is a medically assisted version, the other option of pills/guns/etc (doing it yourself) still exists so if it's too inaccessible it won't stop anyone. But I'd imagine the trama of finding someone who took matters in their own hands vs it being done in a medical planned environment is a consideration as well.







I can't say that they don't care. Remember that most people in that even consider it are battling mental health or physical health issues that can definitely have an effect on perspective . They could feel like a burden on others for instance

I think out of everything it's wrong, and truly fucked up people would agree with this method rather than finding the person actual help. Like how is funding into something to kill people better then funding into helping find people the right help, and finding them groups of people with like-minded problems where they can vent and feel heard for once? I think that is the point you are missing. Imagine going to a facility to kill yourself and getting denied and feeling hopeless, when that facility could have been a place to get real help, and speak with people? At least with the latter they have an actual god damn chance.

Hence the obligatory counseling.



Remember though this isn't just about mental health issues, but also physical ones. If someone is genuinely terminally ill, or in irreversible constant pain, who has a right to tell them they should continue to suffer? Is it being selfish to forcing them to live with no possibility of getting better? What possible reason could there be to do that?

We already have that though, at least in the US. It's called hospice care

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Hospice is about the very end of life, however it is also not covered by all insurance. It doesn't help when someone is "just" in extreme pain due to an injury or disease but isn't near life end either.

Posted by xkachi

Posted by CAPZPRIME
suicide =/= dignity
idk i'm a god fearing man, and this is total bs.

I disagree that euthanasia equates suicide. Euthanasia is assisted death when all options have been exhausted ie for terminally I'll patients, it's a different setting. Suicide on the other hand, the term needs to be retired. People who have ended their life without choice probably don't have access to resources and support that could have helped them.

If a part of god is good, then people should learn how to sympathize and understand that there aren't any straight solutions for the majority of people suffering.

For those who are against (it's unethical/immoral) euthanasia or assistive death or, please provide some realistic solutions case by case.

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Dignitas in Switzerland call it “assisted suicide”

Posted by xkachi

Posted by CAPZPRIME
suicide =/= dignity
idk i'm a god fearing man, and this is total bs.

I disagree that euthanasia equates suicide. Euthanasia is assisted death when all options have been exhausted ie for terminally I'll patients, it's a different setting. Suicide on the other hand, the term needs to be retired. People who have ended their life without choice probably don't have access to resources and support that could have helped them.

If a part of god is good, then people should learn how to sympathize and understand that there aren't any straight solutions for the majority of people suffering.

For those who are against (it's unethical/immoral) euthanasia or assistive death or, please provide some realistic solutions case by case.

click to expand

I think I you're touching on the core issue here. It all comes down to how people view death. Those that would prolong the suffering of a loved one to keep them close longer haven't been able to get past the selfish need to cling and to face the pain of loss, with the understanding that loss and pain are unavoidable parts of living. Those that hold religious beliefs against it need to remember that their own beliefs don't give them a right to impose them on others lives. Morality and sense of right/wrong and drawing a line between personal beliefs and effecting your life vs the lives of others is an important part of society.

Eh, as long as the company offering the program notifies relatives prior and they ensure the individual has a plan for pets, children etc.

If we're being honest here, there's nothing you can do to stop it. People blow their brains out every-day for obscure reasons or simply because of a divorce. People make their own decisions at the end of the day.

Sad, but a co-worker told me of an incident last year. His son's GF found her mother dead by gunshot in the garage when she got home from school. The mother left a half-ass note and ended it without telling anyone. The girl ended up staying with my co-workers family for several months to finish school as her father lived over an hour away.

Point is, these things happen whether we approve of them or not.

Posted by Enfant-Terrible-II
Off topic but

What I don't understand about the death industry, is why the US is finding these complicated ways to kill people on death row like lethal injection, having to time 3 different substances and make sure it's done properly..

I mean it ain't that complicated to kill a person humanely. Just give them an overdose of morphine!

It's really mind-boggling that they have gas chambers, lethal injection and the electric chair when there are way simpler and humane options. A dog is put down more humanely than a convict.

because the countries that make the death drugs started to refuse them to us out of protest, because they figured out we use it to kill people.

I think India did this a while back. It caused a lot confusion in our system, because sometimes the laws or judgements have been written that people must be put to death in a specific manner, and then that was no longer an options.

I honestly think this idea of assisted suicide is being pushed on our cultures because it solves a problem.

Most of our countries are facing a population collapse, we have more old people that aren't being replaced with young people. Most of our economies are some version of capitalism, which require constant growth.

If you have a system that is designed to be a pyramid, and you now have less people coming in at the bottom to contribute, and more people trying to take at the top. Your system is fucked.

So assisted suicide is now an acceptable new solution that we can promote.

Posted by Soul

Posted by TheGreenFairie

Posted by Soul

Posted by TheGreenFairie

Posted by Soul
Since so many people are for it, I'm going to take the opposite view. I don't feel people should have the right, whatsoever. The amount of people that would effect in their personal lives, and maybe even beyond is wrong. Forcing people to live with you signing up for suicide is absolutely wrong. Also the people who apply whatever means to kill the person should be arrested for murder.
Making your whole family and friends live with the fact you killed yourself is messed up. I don't care how bad your life is, there are people who care about you, or even need you in their life. Even if you haven't even met them yet.
I don't typically take the moral high ground in most cases, but I think getting help and group meetings are better then forcing the world to live without you.

Since I'm a Libra I'll argue with you 😂





What's to say forcing people to live with that mentally ill person is better? Have you ever lived long term with someone who's depressed and suffering from mental illness? That can take quite a toll as well.





How do you decide which is worse?





Besides, shouldn't the person closing be closing what's best for them, not others? They have to live with the unescapable pain 24/7.

I see your point, but the problem is people would abuse it. Sure, some people would use it that truly would be better off dead. People would also use it for a reasons that could have been avoided with proper help. Also no, I don't feel people should kill themselves because they feel it's better for them and not others. That is a ridiculous take, because people who want to kill themselves don't care about themselves, or others whatsoever. They are completely void of care. So they are fine with scaring people. That's fucked up. People who agree with that take should feel ashamed.


So my question to you is how do we meet in the middle?

Well, I'd say if people want yo take advantage of it, there should be mandatory counseling involved. I mean, consider also that this is a medically assisted version, the other option of pills/guns/etc (doing it yourself) still exists so if it's too inaccessible it won't stop anyone. But I'd imagine the trama of finding someone who took matters in their own hands vs it being done in a medical planned environment is a consideration as well.

I can't say that they don't care. Remember that most people in that even consider it are battling mental health or physical health issues that can definitely have an effect on perspective . They could feel like a burden on others for instance
click to expand

I think out of everything it's wrong, and truly fucked up people would agree with this method rather than finding the person actual help. Like how is funding into something to kill people better then funding into helping find people the right help, and finding them groups of people with like-minded problems where they can vent and feel heard for once? I think that is the point you are missing. Imagine going to a facility to kill yourself and getting denied and feeling hopeless, when that facility could have been a place to get real help, and speak with people? At least with the latter they have an actual god damn chance.

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They don’t care until

It happens to them , a son, brother sister.

Say your teenage son is depressive in his 20s and having a bad year and chooses this. People, things turn around . It could take a year or 10 years of working n healing yourself n turning the table but they do. That is nature.

Posted by Astrobyn

Posted by Enfant-Terrible-II
Off topic but

What I don't understand about the death industry, is why the US is finding these complicated ways to kill people on death row like lethal injection, having to time 3 different substances and make sure it's done properly..

I mean it ain't that complicated to kill a person humanely. Just give them an overdose of morphine!

It's really mind-boggling that they have gas chambers, lethal injection and the electric chair when there are way simpler and humane options. A dog is put down more humanely than a convict.

because the countries that make the death drugs started to refuse them to us out of protest, because they figured out we use it to kill people.

I think India did this a while back. It caused a lot confusion in our system, because sometimes the laws or judgements have been written that people must be put to death in a specific manner, and then that was no longer an options.

click to expand

How hard is it to make a substance that basically makes a person fall sleep to death within minutes? I mean you put people on the moon but a strong sleeping substance is just too wild and crazy for your science labs?

Posted by Enfant-Terrible-II

Posted by Astrobyn

Posted by Enfant-Terrible-II
Off topic but

What I don't understand about the death industry, is why the US is finding these complicated ways to kill people on death row like lethal injection, having to time 3 different substances and make sure it's done properly..

I mean it ain't that complicated to kill a person humanely. Just give them an overdose of morphine!

It's really mind-boggling that they have gas chambers, lethal injection and the electric chair when there are way simpler and humane options. A dog is put down more humanely than a convict.

because the countries that make the death drugs started to refuse them to us out of protest, because they figured out we use it to kill people.



I think India did this a while back. It caused a lot confusion in our system, because sometimes the laws or judgements have been written that people must be put to death in a specific manner, and then that was no longer an options.

How hard is it to make a substance that basically makes a person fall sleep to death within minutes? I mean you put people on the moon but a strong sleeping substance is just too wild and crazy for your science labs?

click to expand

Look, this is United States Government. 1 or 2 things happened. it took years of bureaucracy and litigation to get the final cocktail approved. Or some politician got a nice donation in exchange for a no bid contract, for a specific cocktail only their corporation had access to receive. And however they settled on this cocktail, I'm sure it was then documented, patented and restricted in a way that nobody else could make money off of it.

Either way that ship wasn't gonna turn very fast.

Posted by xkachi

Posted by CAPZPRIME

Posted by xkachi

Posted by CAPZPRIME
suicide =/= dignity
idk i'm a god fearing man, and this is total bs.

I disagree that euthanasia equates suicide. Euthanasia is assisted death when all options have been exhausted ie for terminally I'll patients, it's a different setting. Suicide on the other hand, the term needs to be retired. People who have ended their life without choice probably don't have access to resources and support that could have helped them.


If a part of god is good, then people should learn how to sympathize and understand that there aren't any straight solutions for the majority of people suffering.


For those who are against (it's unethical/immoral) euthanasia or assistive death or, please provide some realistic solutions case by case.

That women is litteraly committing a suicide for some obscure reason
click to expand

"She has mild autism, depression, anxiety and ADHD"

Is it because you don't see it, it doesn't count as a health issue? Have you briefly researched her diagnosis and how it impacts her life? Comorbidities that come with her diagnosis? Do you know how much funding the government provides for support?

click to expand

I have that exact diagnosis. I found my light at the end of the tunnel . Just thinking at the many time I felt like doing it. If it was that easy at first sign of trouble imagine everything one would be missing out. People can fall into dark wholes thinking it’s never ending. But amyn time their are better days ahead. So i disagree for diagnosis like these.

If you got cancer dtage 4 and in pain yes let me chose. But the above , sometime time is what is needed. Let /allow the cycle turn full circle.