Alcoholic

So, someone realizes they have a drinking problem, claims to want to control it, but continues drinking almost daily...


How do you help them?

Posted by ombrerose
I won't help them, unless they pay me

Alcoholics, they need to solve themselves. Same with any other problem.

The successful people in life learnt to solve their own problems and make positive changes in their lives. If they depend on you to solve their problems, they sure aren't the sort to be proactive.

As I grow older, I see people clamour to better themselves. It takes effort, perseverance, persistence... if someone doesn't have that, they deserve to lose out to those who have that.

Same goes for smokers, druggies, etc.
They can clean up their act. If they want to. If they don't they can remain where they are. Simple as.

I know ultimately it has to be them that changes it. I get that.

So you say nothing... Just walk away and let them sink or swim?

Is that because you think it's best for them or for you? Is this a good tough love situation? Does a soft hand lead to enabling?

Is the money so you'd be getting something out of it or to make them invest in the change?

Posted by ombrerose

Posted by LibraSid

Posted by ombrerose
I won't help them, unless they pay me

Alcoholics, they need to solve themselves. Same with any other problem.

The successful people in life learnt to solve their own problems and make positive changes in their lives. If they depend on you to solve their problems, they sure aren't the sort to be proactive.

As I grow older, I see people clamour to better themselves. It takes effort, perseverance, persistence... if someone doesn't have that, they deserve to lose out to those who have that.

Same goes for smokers, druggies, etc.
They can clean up their act. If they want to. If they don't they can remain where they are. Simple as.

I know ultimately it has to be them that changes it. I get that.

So you say nothing... Just walk away and let them sink or swim?

Is that because you think it's best for them or for you? Is this a good tough love situation? Does a soft hand lead to enabling?

Personally, it depends on how much you care for the person. The more you care, the more effort you put in. Sometimes, you reap no rewards. It's up to you to measure effort against stupidity.

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Heh there's the rub huh...when does it turn to stupidity? I see what you're saying.

Posted by ombrerose
It's like teaching a foreign student English. How much effort and skill do you have, that you put in, and are you sufficiently paid for your efforts? You are teaching them a lifeskill. (Same with alcoholism, you are improving their life tremendously)... why do you put in the effort, unless you reap a reward from their being alcohol free?

Because it's the right thing to do.

I have money and don't need rewards from anyone. Yes I'm close to the person (or else I wouldn't be concerned) but the real benefit would be theirs, not mine. I'm fine with that. I just don't want to waste time / energy if no one is getting a reward.

Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
you can't do anything at all.

if you do, you are just enabling.

*learned the hard way*

That's kinda what I'm seeing/wondering. It seems that "help" becomes a shield and enables continuation of the problem. Was hoping for insights to do it "right" or "better", maybe you can't.

Posted by ombrerose
why do you bother polling dpx team if you want to do it anyway?

for me, unless its my immediate family I wont bother. unless they did me a great favor before.

Because I have a tendency to get caught up in my head about stuff. I've done a lot of stupid shit because I act on impulse out of my heart. I'm working on slowing down and making sure I'm doing things "right". I like the different views and learn a lot from here.

There is psychological damage to someone that has an addiction. I would be support them by going to counseling and attending AA meetings. I would not try to do it on my own. Get with my prayer group and say some prayers for them.

dammit, I hate typos. I meant, "I would support........"

Posted by LibraSid

Posted by ombrerose
why do you bother polling dpx team if you want to do it anyway?

for me, unless its my immediate family I wont bother. unless they did me a great favor before.

Because I have a tendency to get caught up in my head about stuff. I've done a lot of stupid shit because I act on impulse out of my heart. I'm working on slowing down and making sure I'm doing things "right". I like the different views and learn a lot from here.

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yea well that is what makes you guys so great. if we dont have people that care about others in the world where would we all be.
in a lifetime we will all be in situations where we will need someone like you. by you blessing the people that you do help, you get that back tenfold. maybe not as fast as you like but its coming.
And by working on being more thoughtful in your actions, you can help people even more effectively then you did before. Whats wrong with self improvement, I try to be a better person everyday. I try to be better than I was the day before.

People like that need to hit rock bottom & be flat on their fannies before they can make any real change of their own.

I know several alcoholics & they're beyond hope. Not my place so I just watch them destroy their lives with booze.

Posted by ombrerose
I think people who are so soft hearted that they save others and neglect the more important things to be foolish & foolhardy. My ex used to say I have tunnel vision but unfortunately he's stuck by his tunnel vision and his ego that makes him think he is right. Soemtimes the egoistic pride is a blindspot that makes someone go on without change.

Aside from taking care of personal basics, what's more important than helping other people? No, I won't starve to feed someone else; but, yes I give away much of my excess...that's why it's excess, I don't need it.

I think I agree with the principle here but what is "more important things"?

Posted by ombrerose

Posted by LibraSid

Posted by ombrerose
why do you bother polling dpx team if you want to do it anyway?

for me, unless its my immediate family I wont bother. unless they did me a great favor before.

Because I have a tendency to get caught up in my head about stuff. I've done a lot of stupid shit because I act on impulse out of my heart. I'm working on slowing down and making sure I'm doing things "right". I like the different views and learn a lot from here.

thats cool. I think Libra men tend to be stupid though. Just my two cents. They get so sentimental and soft hearted that they miss the forest for the trees.

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I do agree here though, which is part of why I was asking this.

Posted by WaterCup
People like that need to hit rock bottom & be flat on their fannies before they can make any real change of their own.

I know several alcoholics & they're beyond hope. Not my place so I just watch them destroy their lives with booze.

What about if someone seems to have hit bottom? They say so themselves. They see the problem, make good steps, but keep failing...

Damn, maybe I am too soft.

Posted by ombrerose
more important things = priorities.

I guess to spread rainbows is a priority.

My Libra ex was a rainbow spreading kinda person. He did not know there was 'evil'. He was bit by evil and could not recover himself... He did not even have the willpower to overcome the emotions of negativity, etc. I can say I have a straighter head.

I can relate.

Does being "bit my evil" mean he should give up totally or just on that evil though? I think that's my problem, I trust and want to help (nearly everyone) until i have reason not to.

Posted by ombrerose
He was too good hearted. But he was senseless. Kindness without street intelligence (he was booksmarts btw) made him into a ragdoll that will be tossed aside while he looks on helplessly to be saved.

that sums up a Libra guy right there. Dumbf.

Do you know my ex wife lol...

What I think about this issue is....

You can be a positive influence in that person??s life. You can support and be there for them doing things other besides getting shit faced. Because it is important for them to experience and see that there is more to life.

No matter what it is alcohol, drugs, depression, ect. It's easy to get stuck in whatever reality we've created for ourselves, and it's hard to see on our own how things could be different or better. Often time's reality is so skewed, that their sense of self worth is extremely low??_ that they can convince themselves that they don't deserve anything better. So just having people around that place a high value on them and a person willing to share positive experiences with, can have a big impact.

You should tread lightly tho, It can be a delicate balance. If you think about it like a disease, as living problem, it's going to want to thrive inside the host and do everything to protect itself. So it can want to push people and ideas away that contradict what it wants to believe. It also has a lot of secrets, it doesn't want to share.

So just be an open ear, to really listen and try to understand without judgment. There can be feeling a lot of fear of opening up to other people. One reason is that shame they feel about themselves and the shame that other people will feel for them.

But all you can do is give people that option. You have to keep your expectations realistic; you can't change someone else, and it doesn't happen overnight. The best you can hope for is to plant a seed, an idea that there is something better.

Posted by ombrerose
Do you think someone would fall for your kind heart and be a genuine friend? They'd die by your kind heart as well
Like if you befriend someone that wants to murder your gf
Your gf will prolly die
Cuz you're not discriminating enough

That's a tad extreme but I get what you mean. I'm not that bad and I'm open to discussing things (hence the thread).

Posted by LibraSid

Posted by WaterCup
People like that need to hit rock bottom & be flat on their fannies before they can make any real change of their own.

I know several alcoholics & they're beyond hope. Not my place so I just watch them destroy their lives with booze.

What about if someone seems to have hit bottom? They say so themselves. They see the problem, make good steps, but keep failing...

Damn, maybe I am too soft.

click to expand

IDK but all I know is that you cant help someone with an addiction. They are the only ones to decide enough is enough. My own stepdad is a raving alcoholic & losing his job didnt help him sober up. In fact it's getting worse. I send him money to buy himself groceries & he buys wine. He goes to doctors for health issues & is told to stop drinking but he continues to. So if someone doesnt even stop for their own health, I doubt anything would ever make him stop. This guy has nobody left because of his drinking but he still proudly announces that wine is his mother, father + girlfriend. What can you do? You cant make a grown person change their ways unless the need is there within them. So...

Thanks Robyn, that's kinda what I'm trying to do. I told them I would no longer drink with them. I'd be there to talk about whatever and be a friend, but won't party with them like that (even though that was rare anyway). Of course they didn't like that but tough shit.

Posted by ombrerose
I don't like
Taurus
Libra
Gemini

Taurus being stuck in the mud domineering and chauv

Libra being pussies and unable to manage any external manipulations

Gemini for verbal diarrhoea, and being a perpetual 3 yr old. Gemini usually have many ideas but they're not truly useful ones

OMG! All three of those signs dominate my chart, and its could be just a coincidence... but its freaky crazy how much I don't like anything coming out of your mouth today.

Posted by ombrerose

Posted by Astrobyn
OMG! All three of those signs dominate my chart, and its could be just a coincidence... but its freaky crazy how much I don't like anything coming out of your mouth today.

I don't like how you claim Libra as your own

I tend to like Libra ladies
You're a a Taurus I think Taureans are the dark side of Venus

Manipulating domineering and pettiness

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I see your point. Probably better not to fuck with me then.

And not that I claim anything as my own, or have anything to justify to you.... but depending on how you calculate it, I do have a Libra stellium.

Alcoholism is not a demon to be fought alone.

A person in battle with something like this MUST have the support and help of family and friends in order to do it.

Otherwise, it is a near impossible task to complete.

This conversation just got dumb lol.

I happen to like our resident tiny hero lady. She's given great advice and tips to people in the years I been coming here.

I only have experience with one Taurus woman and she was incredible. Not a bad word to say about her.

Don't know Robyn but she seems level headed. Where's all this bile come from rose?

Posted by LibraSid
Thanks Robyn, that's kinda what I'm trying to do. I told them I would no longer drink with them. I'd be there to talk about whatever and be a friend, but won't party with them like that (even though that was rare anyway). Of course they didn't like that but tough shit.

It could easily feel like you are rejecting him ??_ If you really care, I think you are going to have to put more effort into pursuing the friendship. Keep making an effort to keep those options open, keep asking him to do shit even if you keep getting turned down.

Idk what guys do together without drinking, go for a hike? fishing or some shit? ask him to come over and help him move something heavy? You know whatever guys do.

Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
rose likes to troll. *shrugs*

She's terrible at it.

Taurus in the 9th, my outer Libra placements are in the 2nd.

Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
That's a lot of venus!

I know! that's why I try to overcompensate so much.

Posted by LibraSid
Thanks Robyn, that's kinda what I'm trying to do. I told them I would no longer drink with them. I'd be there to talk about whatever and be a friend, but won't party with them like that (even though that was rare anyway). Of course they didn't like that but tough shit.

A friend has just passed away at the age of 41. He was a functioning alcoholic. Liver failure.

I can't help but wonder why his wife didn't have an intervention for him.

Posted by Astrobyn

Posted by ombrerose
I don't like
Taurus
Libra
Gemini

Taurus being stuck in the mud domineering and chauv

Libra being pussies and unable to manage any external manipulations

Gemini for verbal diarrhoea, and being a perpetual 3 yr old. Gemini usually have many ideas but they're not truly useful ones

OMG! All three of those signs dominate my chart, and its could be just a coincidence... but its freaky crazy how much I don't like anything coming out of your mouth today.

click to expand

LOL

Posted by aquapiscescusp

Posted by LibraSid
Thanks Robyn, that's kinda what I'm trying to do. I told them I would no longer drink with them. I'd be there to talk about whatever and be a friend, but won't party with them like that (even though that was rare anyway). Of course they didn't like that but tough shit.

A friend has just passed away at the age of 41. He was a functioning alcoholic. Liver failure.

I can't help but wonder why his wife didn't have an intervention for him.

click to expand

She should have gone to AA meeting with him. The 12 step process can work for a person who suffers from alcoholism. However, a person cannot defeat it alone.

Posted by ScorpioFish

Posted by aquapiscescusp

Posted by LibraSid
Thanks Robyn, that's kinda what I'm trying to do. I told them I would no longer drink with them. I'd be there to talk about whatever and be a friend, but won't party with them like that (even though that was rare anyway). Of course they didn't like that but tough shit.

A friend has just passed away at the age of 41. He was a functioning alcoholic. Liver failure.

I can't help but wonder why his wife didn't have an intervention for him.

She should have gone to AA meeting with him. The 12 step process can work for a person who suffers from alcoholism. However, a person cannot defeat it alone.

click to expand

Yes, something. She also drank with him, not as much, mind you, but still... Sad.

Posted by Lucciferi

Posted by LibraSid
So, someone realizes they have a drinking problem, claims to want to control it, but continues drinking almost daily...


How do you help them?

Quite simply, you can't. If they KNOW they have a problem and continue, they don't want help.

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Oh I don't believe that. They need help, they can't do it on their own. It's a sickness.

Posted by WaterCup

Posted by LibraSid

Posted by WaterCup
People like that need to hit rock bottom & be flat on their fannies before they can make any real change of their own.

I know several alcoholics & they're beyond hope. Not my place so I just watch them destroy their lives with booze.

What about if someone seems to have hit bottom? They say so themselves. They see the problem, make good steps, but keep failing...

Damn, maybe I am too soft.

IDK but all I know is that you cant help someone with an addiction. They are the only ones to decide enough is enough. My own stepdad is a raving alcoholic & losing his job didnt help him sober up. In fact it's getting worse. I send him money to buy himself groceries & he buys wine. He goes to doctors for health issues & is told to stop drinking but he continues to. So if someone doesnt even stop for their own health, I doubt anything would ever make him stop. This guy has nobody left because of his drinking but he still proudly announces that wine is his mother, father + girlfriend. What can you do? You cant make a grown person change their ways unless the need is there within them. So...

click to expand

Yes, I agree 100%

I appreciate all the feedback. I was back and forth with all this in my head. It's at least reassuring that the same general disagreement is taking place here.

Posted by LibraSid
I appreciate all the feedback. I was back and forth with all this in my head. It's at least reassuring that the same general disagreement is taking place here.

I believe in trying to help someone, even if it doesn't turn out the way you would like.

Standing by watching is far worse.

Posted by aquapiscescusp

Posted by LibraSid
I appreciate all the feedback. I was back and forth with all this in my head. It's at least reassuring that the same general disagreement is taking place here.

I believe in trying to help someone, even if it doesn't turn out the way you would like.

Standing by watching is far worse.

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Me too. I just know that sometimes even the best of intentions aren't really helping. Trying to keep myself in check I guess.

Posted by Lucciferi
I would agree that watching is worse.. but if you've ever tried to help someone relentlessly and they just don't care, you'll kick yourself in the ass for wasting your time. Both sides of my family are alcoholics, my best friend was an alcoholic/overall addict to a bunch of stuff and I've tried to help for a good 5 years day in and day out. It didn't matter because they didn't want to change.

Personally I went from doing a mass of drugs all day every day for 2-2.5 years and stopped. It was because I wanted to change.

I'm happy you had the power to do it. You should be proud.

🙂

Hi LibraSid,

Im an alcoholic. My sobriety date is 01/28/09.

First, let me say that you can not call another person an Alcoholic. That is not your label to assign but theirs to accept.

We have a text that we adhere to. In this text, there is an entire chapter dedicated to acceptance. In fact, until he/she really accepts that their life is a train wreck, there is nothing that can be done.

I drank every day from 27-32. I mean every single day. My friends and family wouldn't say a whole lot because I had a great job, a house a nice car, clothes and all of that other stuff that doesn't really matter. Needless to say , I lost it all.

The one thing I can say is Prayer works. You don't have to pray to God if that is not what you believe. You can pray to the Universe. Alcoholism is unmanagable in its active state. The term functioning Alcoholic is an Oxymoron.

There is help and hope but only for those that WANT it. There are countless others who NEED it.

I will keep your friend in prayer.

Nala

Posted by Nala13
Hi LibraSid,

Im an alcoholic. My sobriety date is 01/28/09.

First, let me say that you can not call another person an Alcoholic. That is not your label to assign but theirs to accept.

We have a text that we adhere to. In this text, there is an entire chapter dedicated to acceptance. In fact, until he/she really accepts that their life is a train wreck, there is nothing that can be done.

I drank every day from 27-32. I mean every single day. My friends and family wouldn't say a whole lot because I had a great job, a house a nice car, clothes and all of that other stuff that doesn't really matter. Needless to say , I lost it all.

The one thing I can say is Prayer works. You don't have to pray to God if that is not what you believe. You can pray to the Universe. Alcoholism is unmanagable in its active state. The term functioning Alcoholic is an Oxymoron.

There is help and hope but only for those that WANT it. There are countless others who NEED it.

I will keep your friend in prayer.

Nala

Thanks for sharing that 🙂

Hey LibraSid, I haven't read the whole thread...
But I hope you figure it all out okay. First things first, when dealing with an addict, if you really are in the thick of it and involved in aiding their recovery- just make sure their problems are not your problems.
you are not party to the guilt, look after yourself at all times and prioritize your own well-being.
It seems selfish but it's the best thing for both of you.
So good luck and I hope they get there one day 🙂

Posted by LibraSid

Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
you can't do anything at all.

if you do, you are just enabling.

*learned the hard way*

That's kinda what I'm seeing/wondering. It seems that "help" becomes a shield and enables continuation of the problem. Was hoping for insights to do it "right" or "better", maybe you can't.

click to expand

check out al-anon, it can help you understand the disease better and you can meet others who have been through similar experiences. It's for family/friends of alcoholics.... I will pm you as I have been sober for 28 years.

Posted by Nala13
Hi LibraSid,

Im an alcoholic. My sobriety date is 01/28/09.

First, let me say that you can not call another person an Alcoholic. That is not your label to assign but theirs to accept.

We have a text that we adhere to. In this text, there is an entire chapter dedicated to acceptance. In fact, until he/she really accepts that their life is a train wreck, there is nothing that can be done.

I drank every day from 27-32. I mean every single day. My friends and family wouldn't say a whole lot because I had a great job, a house a nice car, clothes and all of that other stuff that doesn't really matter. Needless to say , I lost it all.

The one thing I can say is Prayer works. You don't have to pray to God if that is not what you believe. You can pray to the Universe. Alcoholism is unmanagable in its active state. The term functioning Alcoholic is an Oxymoron.

There is help and hope but only for those that WANT it. There are countless others who NEED it.

I will keep your friend in prayer.

Nala

way to go!!! 🙂

I have a good friend who i concerider a bit of an alcoholic either that or a terrible drunk and I suffer his bullshit oh boy do I suffer??_??_.but in the end I love him like a friend and I don't want anything bad to happen to him??_.although I do enable him by going to the pub with him now and then. If i was ready to get a hold on his alcoholism I would be be there to support him any way possible.

You don't. You can't help someone when they aren't willing to actually work on their problem.

There's a big difference between acknowledging a problem and then actually doing something about it.

This person acknowledges it, but does nothing to changes. There are stages in regard to change. Right now, they're stuck in the acknowledge/pre-contemplation phase.

Until they get to the planning/actively doing something about it phase, you aren't going to do much besides wear yourself thin trying to help someone who cannot be helped.

@ Libsid...there's nothing you can do unless the person truly wants to stop to help themselves. Anything short of that..do nothing. On another note

I don't know about the other states, but NY has become real harsh about cigarette smoking. Nasty ass commercials, people on their death bed wheezing, limbs lost, having to tell their kids they are dying from cancer, etc...

Why the fuck aren't they showing commercials of long time drunks shitting their pants every time they move, the triple aging in the face, the liver rotting, and real photos of people so many drunks have killed on the road..I mean really raw footage?? Pisses me the fuck off. Bureaucratic hypocrital schmucks.

Posted by LetltB
@ Libsid...there's nothing you can do unless the person truly wants to stop to help themselves. Anything short of that..do nothing. On another note

I don't know about the other states, but NY has become real harsh about cigarette smoking. Nasty ass commercials, people on their death bed wheezing, limbs lost, having to tell their kids they are dying from cancer, etc...

Why the fuck aren't they showing commercials of long time drunks shitting their pants every time they move, the triple aging in the face, the liver rotting, and real photos of people so many drunks have killed on the road..I mean really raw footage?? Pisses me the fuck off. Bureaucratic hypocrital schmucks.

Let me add...destroys friendships, family especially if kids have to grow up around a drunken loser and suffers the abuse/neglect. No commercials on that...nada

Posted by justagirl

Posted by LibraSid

Posted by TwirlingStrawberry
you can't do anything at all.

if you do, you are just enabling.

*learned the hard way*

That's kinda what I'm seeing/wondering. It seems that "help" becomes a shield and enables continuation of the problem. Was hoping for insights to do it "right" or "better", maybe you can't.

check out al-anon, it can help you understand the disease better and you can meet others who have been through similar experiences. It's for family/friends of alcoholics.... I will pm you as I have been sober for 28 years.

click to expand

28 years! Hugssss

I really appreciate everyone sharing like this.

Like I mentioned earlier this friend had said they were done. We got into a couple days ago because I stopped by and they were sitting alone drinking. I didn't go in confrontational, but that's what happened. That's when I told them I wouldn't come by no more of she was fringing. It's like a different person.

I stopped by last night to help writing a paper. They said they haven't drank for 2 days. I congratulated and encouraged. We finished the paper and talked for a little while.

Arielle, your comments about being hard to watch their family and friends use or abandon them are spot on. Rocky is right about the precontemplation phase. I know it's heavy on the mind though. I'll be there for support but I know they gotta do the work.