Should the US Bomb the Crap out of Iraq!!! (Page 2)

wait let me say that with out the damn hello's lol.

Lay the phuck off my buddy phoenix. she could say whatever the phuck she wants just like what durrie and cortica blabbed about their opinions. so back the phuck up.

Thank you i-sun ; )

You are right about everything. It is not we who must wake up, it is they.

phoenix

First of all isun, it may surprise you but there are a lot of us out there who DO not want to be like america...

The only people defending america here are the americans themselves, that only goes to show me you are merely cogs in a wheel.

You talk about how "successful" you are but it depends on how you define 'success'. Success to me is remembering others and having human compassion, not living in affluence and becoming intoxicated in self importance...

I dont know about you but in other countries people are taught to think for ourselves.

George bush and others need to realise they are not 'God'. As one of the 'posters' pointed out, the UN should be intervening, not america. Who made them god?

Im sorry, but your country is not that fabulous and we dont all aspire to be like you, believe it or not...

Lol.

Oh yeah, and Pheonix, you say it is 'them' (meaning the rest of the world obviously) who should 'wake up'? Who were the ones that got attacked? What's that telling you? I bet if you were living in Afghanistan you wouldnt be saying these things. I cant believe the US bombed the hell out of a third world country and are proud of it, and achieved absoulutely nothing! I cant respect that sort of logic.

No, "them" doesn't mean the rest of the world, it means people like you.

And what being visiously attacked tells me, is that there are a lot of crazy unthinking extremists out there.

You obviously support them, which tells me a lot about YOU.

phoenix

Just to put it basically, i in no way condone what happened on sept. 11. What worries me is that the US took it upon themselves to bring a 'suspect' to justice without going through the UN, it seems a bit anarchic to me, the very thing he preaches against.

Secondly, we are just cogs in the wheel; there are no winners in war. It is all political rhetoric. The politicians are so good at inspiring contempt within people that we sometimes lose sight of what we are fighting for. Do we even know what we are fighting for anymore? It is just tit for tat but on a world scale.

The thing that concerns me is that people dont question their politicians anymore.

Maybe we all need to WAKE UP and realise what we were put on this earth for. Do we want to keep fighting with each other? This is ridiculous.

George bush is using MIGHT (as in 'physical strength') over RIGHT. It is not 'right'. Real strength lies in compassion, compromise and acceptance. It is like someone who wins a fight in the school yard because he/she can fight better. It doesnt mean they are the strongest, the best or the most dignified, it only means they have more MUSCLE POWER.

It seems that the answers by the bushs' to everything is hit hit hit. Arent they able to find other ways to deal with conflict? Very scarey that he is bringing his personal issues with power into the world arena.

I think it is an embarrasment to bush that the most 'powerful' nation in the world couldnt even find one man using brute force. He has embarrassed his nation as well. It tells me he is definatley using the wrong methods but he still doesnt listen. He has just proven how UNPOWERFUL he is...

What i wonder is that if the ID's of the pilots and videos of bin laden were so easy to find, why couldnt america foresee the attacks?

The thing we ALL have to do is QUESTION. Dont let them put you to sleep. The government isnt always right you know. There are always at least two sides to every story and always at LEAST two ways of dealing with an issue.

I dont want anymore war. We have no say in the matter. It seems to me that it is all for the politicians ends and not ours. We are the ones that live in stress and suffer. When was the last time a politician did anything to PLEASE you, really?

Why are we here (on this earth)? To destory each other? I dont get it.

JESUS CHRIST WHATEVER HAPPEND TO GETTING ALONG.

WE DON'T WANT ANOTHER WW3 TO HAPPEN. BUT WE SURE ARE ACTING LIKE WE ARE GOING TO WAR RIGHT NOW. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU PEOPLE HAVE TO TARGET AMERICA FOR BEING THE STRONGEST. THEY ARE THERE BECAUSE AMERICANS ARE DISCIPLINED TO BE UP THERE. THEY EARNED IT. AND YES I AM FROM AUSTRALIA AND MY COUNTRY IS BECOMING LIKE AMERICA BECAUSE WE ARE IMITATING THE WAY THEY LIVE. YES IT WORKS. DEMOCRACY WORKS. FOR YOU PEOPLE THAT DISS HOW BAD AMERICA IS. WAKE UP AND DO NOT HATE THEM FOR BEING ON TOP. PEOPLE PLS. HEATHER AND ISUN HAVE BIG HEARTS FOR DEFENDING THEIR COUNTRY. SO DOES THE OTHERS THAT DEFEND THEIRS. WHATS HAPPENING RIGHT NOW IS JUST A CLASH OF PATRIOTISM. THERE IS NOTHING MORE. ADMIT EACH OTHERS FAULTS AND NO MORE LOW BLOWS. ITS POINTLESS.

OH BY THE WAY,

I-SUN AND PHOENIX. COURAGE IS ADMIRED WHEN FRIENDS STICK UP FOR EACH OTHER. YOU BOTH HAVE THE SAME VIEWS. THERE ARE PLENTY THAT ARE NOT LIKE LIBRAGIRL AND THOSE OTHER PEOPLE THAT HATE. IM A BIG FAN AND SO IS MARINESAG. SO KEEP POSTING GOOD OPINIONS.

LIBRAGIRL. THEY KNEW IT WAS BIN LADEN. THATS WHY THEY WENT AFTER HIM EVEN IF THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO TELL THE UN. ITS CALLED RETALIATION. IN POLITICS, THEY DIDN'T WANT TO LOOK LIKE PUSSIES IN THE EYES OF THE WORLD. THEY ARE THE TOP COUNTRY IN THE WORLD. UK. WOULD DO THE SAME IF THE QUEEN WAS KILLED BY TERRISTS. SO SHUT YOUR PIE HOLE BECAUSE YOU APPARENTLY DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING

PEOPLE THAT THINK THEY KNOW EVERYTHING PISSES ME OFF.

wow

Im from australia too and i dont like the fact we are becoming like america. They are on top but at the expense of others. Im entitled to my opinions as is everyone else. As for heather and isun, they are sheep. I am happy to stand out from the rest of the world and speak my opinion, i am not afraid of death or whatever else people may employ to silence people with their own opinions. Also, if it wasnt for 'great' people who stood up for themselves and spoke out, the world would never have changed.

12, i am not going to resort to your level of personal attack. I am bigger than that. The way you judge is the reason wars happen. You point the finger at everyone else instead of looking at the issue for what it is. Oh of course, its everybody elses fault isnt it...

I dont care what you think, its futile trying to convice the ignorant. If isun wants to stick his nose up heathers arse then thats his progative.

I cant believe the ignorance of you people, you judge a character by a few posts. Too funny. That tells me how accurate your sense of judgement is. Bye now and watch out for karma, it is heading your way in a big way.

You can blow out of each others arses but at the end of the day it is people like you who make it easy for politicians to rule.

PS. I think its pretty obvious im not spreading hate, im a libra and i like peace. I like to have my say and i am not a sheep. Its hard to communicate with some people on this board, they sound like they should be on the jerry springer show. Now i think the jerry springer show says it all dont you?

lol.

"12, i am not going to resort to your level of personal attack"


you just called me and phoenix sheep! ya arse! the phuck are you talking about. yes you do stand out! good for phuckin you. here you are trying to tell everybody that you are a libra and yet you insult me by calling me sheep.

its people like you that move a country backward. love your country because you live in it. thats what im doing and im phuckin stickin to it. don't tell me im a sheep biatch.

ya hypocritical arse. at least i awknoledged what you said and let you be to tell you that believe what you believe. don't act like your higher than me and phoenix!

"You can blow out of each others arses but at the end of the day it is people like you who make it easy for politicians to rule.".....?


how could you live in a society without someone who upholds laws? politicians/ or something like them will always be present if you want a working society. unless you explain to me how you live with out them that works in a size of a country like the US i will shut the phuck up.

because i will only see chaos.

also,

phoenix is my good friend, and i will do whatever i can to back her up.

phuck you again for instulting me and phoenix

First of all, 12.26.69.43, thank you for your support (both on this topic and on the subject of me and i-sun). It is greatly appreciated and one of my favorite things about you is that you tell it like it is, without either being overly nasty OR sugarcoating things. There is a way to deal with people, and it is heartening to see that someone has mastered it, meaning you! : )

Secondly...the problem with this post at this point, is that we are all trying to argue about like three or four different issues all at once, and it is becoming confusing. One topic of debate is how nifty America is versus how nifty it's not, another topic is whether we should go to war with Iraq, and another is September 11th. I for one am not above admitting that I am confused about everyone's individual stances on each seperate topic. It has become the natural flow of the conversation, but at the same time I'm wondering who thinks what about what.

Thirdly I am sick and tired of being called ignorant. Cortica's done it several times, Lawgoddess did it and now Libragirl you are doing it. While at the same time saying you don't resort to personal attacks. That is indeed hypocritical. I do owe Durrie an apology for calling him a son of a *itch. So durrie I apologize for that. So I am not without blame. But do you think any of these fine ladies will apologize to me for calling me ignorant? Of course not. I highly doubt it. It would be a remarkeable show of humility to do so, but I long ago lowered my expectations of Cortica. The others I mentioned, who knows. But I will not lose any sleep over it. I do find it rather comical that when someone runs out of points to make, they choose to resort to the old "well, you're stupid" insult (which is exactly what they're really saying when they call me ignorant), as if we are all in third grade again. For God's sake. I'm also sick of the petty insults. About i-sun, Libragirl, he's far more of an ass kicker than an ass kisser. And we will always defend each other, it's called friendship...

Also, there is a lot of hypocrisy rearing its head on this board. There is also a lot of assuming, which is nearly as bad as hypocrisy. For example: myself, i-sun, 12, and marinesag (if I forgot someone sorry) have all made reference to the fact that America is the best country one could possibly live in. For some reason, people who disagree have taken that statement and made lots of assumptions based on it. Assumptions like Americans think they are better PEOPLE than other citizens of other countries. Assumptions like we just want to kick as much ass as possible, all for fun, just because we can. Assumptions like America is at war with Muslims. Assumptions like America doesn't see past the end of it's own nose. Assumtions like the American government "brainwashes" the citizens it governs.

Since I already pointed out that these are assumptions, it goes without saying that they are not facts. They are the opinions of people who live in other countries, who have no idea what it's like to live here. They have no idea what it means to be an American citizen. They haven't a clue about what our true causes are, or motivations. They speculate, and allow rensentment and jealousy and lack of actual knowledge of this country to color their judgements. It is glaringly obvious to everyone, even though they think they can hide behind their rhetoric. It is okay to have issues with the government of another country. By all means have your issues. But when you start talking about extremely sensitive topics (apparently only for us Americans) like the sept. 11th attacks, and start laying blame, and start saying it's our fault, you can expect that our reaction will be an even stronger patriotism and a highly emotional reaction. You don't seem to understand that Americans always, always band together when we are attacked. Call it a cultural thing, call it whatever you want. Ma

Libragirl:

"Also, if it wasnt for 'great' people who stood up for themselves and spoke out, the world would never have changed."

That statement right there should tell you a lot about Americans.

So, you did make one legitimate point.

"Bye now and watch out for karma, it is heading your way in a big way."

Yeah I'm sure the universe just can't wait to make my life hell for defending my country. Boy am I evil or what. Of all the possible bad Karma I could put out there...defending my homeland just has to be the worst most delporable sin.

Please.

"As for heather and isun, they are sheep. I am happy to stand out from the rest of the world and speak my opinion, i am not afraid of death or whatever else people may employ to silence people with their own opinions."

Obviously if i-sun and I were afraid in any way to voice our opinions, we would have shut up long ago. We are not sheep, and to prove my point, there are some (few, but they're out there) Americans who agree with your ideology, Libragirl. And I am not afraid of them either, nor am I afraid of dying for my country if that's what it had to come down to.

And by the way, if I wanted to be immature about it, I could just as easily have called you a sheep because you are following a certain percentage of the population's ideology. It is a meaningless insult.

"They are on top but at the expense of others."

At whose expense are we on top? Do you have any specific examples?

Geez like Guys and girls..."Durrie shakes his head - his eye's popping out"

Pheonix...Apology gracefully accepted...thank you I know you didn't mean it.

Pheonix...you are right we all need to calm down a bit. Debate is healthy and we are all having our say as we rightly should but lets grow up a bit and stop calling each other names...it's very infantile indeed as it is to seek the companionship of others whilst your views and yourself are under fire...stop being so insecure.

Phoenix...to answer your last question "at who's expense are we on top" I'm sorry to sound like a brocken record and the wrong one you may say...but

The answer is simple...the poorer countries.

Being on top as you all like to be means you have to keep your nose very clean indeed but most of all I think it means you should be HUMBLE...something Bush has shown to be totally incapable of through his actions since he has been in power and something none of the people on this thread seem to be capable of apart from yourself...they call each other silly names and ridecule others when basically this insecurity stems from themselves...we all hate to be challenged...untill we learn to be humble.

America is in my opinion and many others on the top but ontop of what. America is on top of the "Western" world which they almost single handedly created but the point all the people in this discussion have been trying to make is that you see "Western" as right. You are spoon fed it from birth and it works well within your own country but don't think it should be industry standard...nor should you think you have the right to enforce it on foreign shores.

Westernised society are extreamists in their own right who blindly believe they are right because they lead the "Western" world or as many would call it...the "Rich Fatcats" world. Westernisd countries and others feed off the cheap labour and laque of business sense shown by poorer countries...their obsession with money and how it makes the "Western World" go round is sickening to me...

To want to rid the world of terror is to stop manufacture of products in foreign countries at a tenth of the price as in your own and then import them and cash in on profits at the other countries expense...not just to stop Bin Laden and the likes. This is how not just yours but other wealthy countries conduct theirselves and that is why I say it is at their expense.

"A man who knows something knows he knows nothing at all"...once again thankyou Luz.

I think it's time for many Westerised people to have a slice of humble pie and come down off their high horses. The answers are not simple and war is the last thing this world needs right now.

Just a small clarifying point: ignorant is an adjective, not necessarily an insult. It means destitue of knowledge, illiterate, uninstructed, uneducated etc.

If I ever alluded to the fact that you were ignorant phoenix, it was probably because you displayed one or more of the previous characteristics in your posts (I don't think they deserve to be termed arguements), not because of any personal feelings I may have towards you.
For example, I didn't call you ignorant because I want to be you, I didn't call you ignorant because I am jealous of you, I didn't call you ignorant because of some deep unconcious longing I have to emulate your shining intellectualism.

If I was to lower myself to the level of personal insults, I would certainly be a lot more expressive in my adjectives. I'm practically orgasaming over the bounty of grammatical combinations I could come up with if I did decide to direct my focus towards the task of investigating the things I dislike about you.

But anyway, more importantly, look at all the Australians! There's me, libragirl, lawgoddess and 12.26 (who is probably a Young National or something).

Durrie, thank you for accepting my apology. You didn't have to but you did, and that shows an understanding soul so thank you.

Also, I found your post to be very eloquent. I actually agree with you on many points. You are right that humility is very much lacking in this country. And I will also agree with you about Bush. I have never liked his self-righteous smirk and his way of speaking that makes him seem a little too gun-ho about "smokin' 'em outta their holes"...you know? He has always come across to me as rather arrogant. Remember: I didn't vote for him! lol. I remember saying to myself when he first was "elected", "I just know we are going to end up in some kind of war with this guy as President". I was right. Although I do think that this particular war (on terrorism) is necessary. However, I do think we need to beef up our efforts to find Bin Laden. I am somewhat undecided as to what I think about going to war with Iraq though. I dislike Saddam and his secretiveness and I am well aware of his hatred for America, so I know he is a threat. But at the same time I would like to see the concrete evidence of his arsenal that America's political leaders are basing their potential pre-emptive strike on. I think it's important that they make a strong, strong case for going to war with ANY country. And, if we are indeed talking nuclear here with regards to Hussein, then to what level the fighting would get is rather scary to me, especially if/when the nuclear thing comes into play.

Cortica, I know what ignorant means. My challenge to you is to back that insult up by telling me exactly how I have displayed ignorance. And I never said that you are calling me ignorant based on jealousy or anything of the kind. I have tried twice to be nice to you even in the face of your nastiness to me. I even once defended you when some people didn't understand your post and where coming down really hard on you. I told you on another board that if I offended you or hurt your feelings or anything like that, to just let me know how, and that I would apologize for it. For some reason you really dislike me and I don't have any idea why. Of course we have vehemently disagreed on a few issues, but personally I don't think that's grounds to dislike someone. I vehemently disagree with my boyfriend on MANY issues, but...you get what I'm saying. I vehemently disagree with my own family on many issues also. My point is that you can still respect someone, and even like them, even if you are complete opposites when it comes to political ideology.

FINALLY SOME RESOLUTION.

GOD ITS ABOUT TIME. LIBRAGIRL I DON'T THINK THAT YOU SHOULD BE HYPOCRITICAL TO WHAT YOU SAY. YOU ARE A CONTRADICTION AND YOU SOUND LIKE YOU TALK PEOPLE DOWN THINKING LIKE YOU ARE UTMOST SUPREME. RIGHTEOUSNESS CAN BE ADMIRED BUT YOU ARE BEING SUCH AN ARSE. I-SUN HAD DONE NOTHING WRONG, AND SURE AS HELL DID PHOENIX. YOUR LOW BLOWS SHOULD END LIBRAGIRL AND STOP PREACHING WHEN THEY BELIEVE ON SOMETHING ADAMANTLY. FROM WHAT I RECALL I-SUN WAS ONLY DEFENDING HIS BUDDY. I DON'T SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH IT.

BY THE WAY IM OLD. SOMEONE CALLED ME A YOUNG BLOOD I THINK BUT IM OLD. IM LIKE 50'S

Thank you 12!

And you are not old! Age is nothing but a number. You rock! : )

-phoenix

thank you 12.

50 is nothing.

Well a lot has happened since I last posted here and I guess a lot of people think that countries are suffering at the hands of the United States.

I will be brief in what I have to say:

Every country in the world has its problems that can be aggreed upon by all.

The United States make poorer countries suffer, well then why is it that the poorer countries are always asking us for help. Or why is it that the United States Armed Forces makes up better than half the UN Troops, or why is it that when ever a igotistical maniac tries to go and run over another country, and make it his own, we (the Unites States) go in and stop them.

You all pick out one bad thing that the US does and harp on it. (You All meaning the other countries around the world)But what you fail to realize is that if the United States did not exsists most of the other countries in the world would either not be a country or would be country that is in total chaos.

We have laws that govern our freedoms, and we have laws that govern the safety of the world. Atleast we can say with a firm standing that the United States will not sit IDLELY buy while some terriost organization, or militant leader tries to gain control of some smaller less fortunate country.

I guess it is not so short....but I have to say, if you sit around and look at a glass of water half empty instead of half full, well you probably would have no clue what it means to stand up and fight for your rights and freedoms.

Have a strong Patriotic Patriot DAY all..

Good Night.

-MARINESAG

Well said, marinesag : )

phoenix

Marinesag...did you or Bush even care that the Taliban ruled with an iron fist persecuting human and womens rights untill they attacked America...—

Did you even know the Taliban existed before they attacked your country...—

HAHA THATS JUST AS LOW AS THEM BOMBING US, A CONSTANT CYCLE.LuZ

I may be alone in this feeling, but I really feel that today is not the day for this. It isn't a day to argue about this.

phoenix

ok...? who cares where your from, whether its afghanistan or not. And whats this talk about america doing butter for other countries and saving ppsl asses, did you save their asses even if you were in america? no. So stop speaking so highly of yourself. You just live here. Its just a damn country my god but ppl like us turn it into some kind of dog/cat fight. Realize that maybe no matter where you're from that there is ALWAYs gonna be problems and there is ALWAYS gonna be FAULTS and MISTAKES. But there is something called LEARNING from it but somehow BOMBING THE IRAq OR WUTEVER? thats just gonna be some constant cycle that treetrunkin bush is putting us in. And maybe america had some parts to why THOUSANDS OF AMERICANS DIED THAT DAY OF 9/11. LuZ

lol pheonix, i guess you are right.. much love to everyone Luz

Out of sensitivity, I reiterate that TODAY IS NOT THE DAY TO BLAME AMERICA.

My opinion! Let's save it for tomorrow, shall we?

phoenix

And love back to you Luz... : )

phoenix

My dear Luz...we seem to be two peas from the same pod, however I detected anemosity in your reply...you're above that, come on...it's my turn to level your head...lol.

While I echo pheonix's cetiment that maybe yesterday was no day to be discussing this I hope it was due to your will to celebrate those lost lives phoenix...mourning and hanging your head is giving in to and letting a negative event control you. Life should be celebrated for it's greatness not mourned, regardless of how tragically it may have been lost.

Luz you are so right...it's all one big cycle of people feeling the need to get even...both America and the Taliban...when will we learn that when something doesn't work the approach to that crisis needs to change...—

For every action there is a reaction...as for every choice made there is a consequence...Bush may believe it is right to go to war but then the consequences of his actions will affect this children and his childrens children not really him...does he think of them...

My opinion in he is doing as Luz said...just kicking off another loop in the same old cycle of war and hate...and why—

Could it be to satisfy his ego as the leader of the western world...could it be out of revenge...I don't know...I'm not Bush but I do know that these are a foolish mans moves.

Could it be out of concern for the world at the hands of terror...an international crisis I agree...but if so why do the papers all read - America's war on Terror...—

People may say this is off the topic but....

If Bush is prepared to rid the world of terror he is inadvertantly agreeing to an international community...ie. GLOBALISATION....
If he is willing to go ahead with globalisation why is he not prepared to take part and sign Kyoto...—

It's all about power - Saddam sits on one fifth of the world's oil reserves. Before the gulf war, the only way America could get support from the arab nations was to promise to deal with the palestine situation and resolve israel's occupation of the west bank and gaza strip. Eleven years on and they seem to have forgotten about that obligation. Subsequently, they're finding it difficult to get support for this most current attack on iraq.

In light of such apathy, it's hard to view America's motives as being anything but selfish. They don't care about helping anyone unless it serves to fullfil their own self interest.

Invoking notions of 'evil' and 'terror' and 'honourable defence of democracy' is the mechanism by which the USA conceals its greed from the American public - and it's often easier for people outside america to see through the propaganda. Other countries are only partially consumed by this great force that works to uphold the ideology of a nation whose fundamental identity relies on a continuing economic dominance.

Durrie, only have one reply - - The taliban has exsited for a long time - and considering that Usama Bin Landen has been on the ten most wanted list by the FBI for years I think I probably knew about them. As for President Bush, well I can not speak for him but considering what his father has done for this country I dont see how he could not know.

UNITED STATES MARINE CORPS 1993 - 1997. Been to most of the worst places in the world. Hope I never have to return.

NEED I SAY MORE DURRIE.

"While I echo pheonix's cetiment that maybe yesterday was no day to be discussing this I hope it was due to your will to celebrate those lost lives phoenix...mourning and hanging your head is giving in to and letting a negative event control you. Life should be celebrated for it's greatness not mourned, regardless of how tragically it may have been lost."

Durrie, I see exactly what your point is. The only way I can explain it is that what I was feeling yesterday was a combination of both sadness and mourning for the way those people died, as well as celebrating that they were on the earth as long as they were, had families and babies and (in my opinion) did not die in vain. I believe they were here on earth and were killed the way they were for a reason; for a larger as of yet unseen purpose.

"Luz you are so right...it's all one big cycle of people feeling the need to get even...both America and the Taliban..."

I agree that it is a cycle. But I also believe everything is a cycle. And not all parts of that cycle are necessarily negative or wrong. My question is, what was the Taliban trying to get even with us for?

"My opinion in he is doing as Luz said...just kicking off another loop in the same old cycle of war and hate...and why—"

As much as Bush's personality can grate on me, I do not get the feeling from him that he is an evil man who wants war and hate. My opinion is that we didn't want war, we were forced into it that day.

"Could it be to satisfy his ego as the leader of the western world...could it be out of revenge...I don't know...I'm not Bush but I do know that these are a foolish mans moves."

I agree with you, those are all foolish motivations. I assure you however, The US doesn't just decide to go to war to satisfy its ego, and Bush is not so selfconsumed as to put American lives at risk just to satiate his personal ego. And yes, of course there are elements of revenge in this war. Actually I believe it's justice more than revenge, but others will see it as they choose to see it. Justice can look like revenge through the eyes of those who see that quest for justice as without reason, or aggressive.

"For every action there is a reaction...as for every choice made there is a consequence...Bush may believe it is right to go to war but then the consequences of his actions will affect this children and his childrens children not really him...does he think of them..."

I can't speak for Bush personally, but *I* think of them. And I believe that with the US's perseverence and tenacity in eliminating as much threat to innocent lives from terrorism as we possibly can, not only will our children thank us, but their children, and hopefully the rest of the world some day. Plus, you have to realize that his decision to go to war most certainly *does* affect him. His life is more and more in danger every day, as well as his political career's future. We know, the US that is, know how much some other countries hate us and that it doesn't matter what we say or do, in their eyes we will always be the enemy. So know that it wasn't *easy* for Bush to stand up and make such an astronomical declaration of war on terrorism. We know that that decision would further inflame the terrorists, and make them hate us more. But at a certain point one has to make a choice. Lay down (or bend over, however you want to imagine it) and live in fear, letting the terrorists win by being terrorized every day wondering what they will "punish" us with next, or stand up and say, "NO--you have made a mistake in thinking that actions based on radical beliefs which took thousands of our innocent friends and family members will change America. Only Americans can change America, not murderers, and we are prepared to stand up for the values we hold in this country and the basic human rights of every citizen in every country--the right to live without fear."

Marinesag...I don't want to flair this whole topic up again but you missed my point and your reply further presses that point.

If the Taliban reigieme of terror was known of for years why was it only last year when they attacked America that they were considered a threat to the international community.

Whay only now does America feel the need to free those persucuted women, children and men from Afganistan.

There is terror all over the world happening right now and every day since we can remember...

I feel it's as Cortica so rightly sums up and says...

"Other countries are only partially consumed by this great force that works to uphold the ideology of a nation whose fundamental identity relies on a continuing economic dominance"

The truth in that staement is so freightfully clear...well said Cortica.

So durrie are you ignoring me now or something? lol. That is upsetting...

MarineSag - considering you have been to a lot of places and apparently seen a lot of things, your viewpoint is incredibly narrow.

Maybe several years of being told what to do and think has corrupted your ability to perceive an issue objectivly.

Phoenix my dear...time for some fun...hehe

I would never ignor you nor 152.163 on their posting "Negativity"...LOL...(Libra Board)
For if I am guilty of incorrectly assuming I am that person you thought they spoke of in that posting then I am no more guilty in my assumption than you...LOL...touche my dear pheonix...touche.

I think that our differing views on this threads subject drove you to hate me due to your passion on that subject...indeed you called me an "inconsiderate SOB" but I realised your passion from the start and I forgave...as I always will...

Your last posting was very eloquent indeed...thank you for that...you some how summed up and amalgamated all the confusion and anger in this thread and took everybody at heart...my reply to that was...

Phoenix is back...ie. no reply neccessary...

Have a smashing weekend all...
Durrie.

Ooh yes but before I go...Cortica...while I'm "picking up" what you are "putting down" in your last posting...you should know better than to stoak a Sagatarius's fire like that...especially an Ex-Marine's one...I thought Phoenix had stoped that with her last post...hehe...and yet here I do the same...*Durrie sighs with a huge grin on his face*

Sorry guys I just couldn't resist that one...I'm just in an awesome mood today and it's easier to let it all slide off when one feels this way...love is in the air...!!!

I humbly appologise to all parties concerned if I offended you...

Durrie, you are indeed a good soul (not that I didn't think so before). You are humble and sweet, yet not a pushover with your beliefs--the ultimate humanitarian.

Now let me just say durrie, do not think for a second that I ever once hated you. In fact I quite respect you because even though we have differing views on certain subjects, you have a way of conveying your sentiments and opinions which actually is very effective--you make me THINK, rather than just putting me on the defensive. It was my fault that in the early postings on this thread I assumed (wrongly) that you were TRYING to put some of us on the defensive. No, I now know that that sort of shady maneuvering is not what you're about. Leave that low-level style to other types on here. Not durrie. Your style is peaceful--but not whimpy--reflection and philosophy. I have much to learn from you. Never think that I hated you, not even when I lashed out so unjustifiably. You are one of my favorites now, for sure.

"Phoenix is back...ie. no reply neccessary..."

Hehe, that statement tickles me pink. LOL! : )

As I said..."no reply neccessary"...

Well maybe some thanks to give...so...

Thankyou...thank you for being you...!!!

Awww! *blushes...hehe

No durrie, thank YOU for being YOU!

lol. Let's just all pass the pipe and have a lovefest, shall we? No seriously, it's delightful!!

*kissed durrie on cheek ; )