What are your thoughts on the M word?

So I just recently found out that my Pisces guy doesnt believe in Marriage 😢 I never new this before. His exact words were "I dont have trust in it". He said he can see himself growing old with a person and having kids with a person but Marriage is not in his plans...at least not at this point in his life. He said that he know a lot of people that have had great relationships until they get married...then it all changed. He claims that he doesnt know of really any successful Marriages. That is so sad to me. I am a strong believer in Marriage. I believe in the Cinderella story. Now am at a point where I have to make a decision because I know that he and I are on two different life paths. If I stay with him knowing we want to different things am I setting myself up? He said his views might change later in life but as of right now thats the way he feels. I cant stay in a relationship for years and hope that he might change his mind because when he doesnt I am going to have no one to blame but myself and then at that point I will be so deep in it that the reality of it will probably hurt even more. His reasons behind it are that a marriage certificate changes relationships. People seem to think after marriage that they have ownership over each other and thats not what he wants. He said that marriage is not the foundation of a relationship a healthy realtionship is what brings successful relationship. My problem is that I dont see myself having kids until i am married and he wants kids and he wants to grow old with someone but doesnt want the marriage part....so confused!!! I understand his point, it all makes some sense but still doesnt change my views on Marriage. I am a bit younger than him so maybe I am still nieve to the whole Cinderella story thing but in the end I still think that my faith in it will still forever be strong. Is it that maybe he has some trust issues and with time he will overcome them and his views will change. Then I also thought that maybe his fear of someone just getting married to him just for his money scares him and maybe he feels that if someone grows old with him without the marriage that maybe there heart is truly with him becasue of love and not money. I dont know because I dont understand the lack of faith in it. Help me to understand.

WHAT DO YOU GUYS THINK ABOUT MARRIAGE—?

I dont know if its the money. I am just assuming. I dont want to bring it up because I dont want to insult him. He is so sensitive and I feel if I make it a money issue then he will get upset if thats not the real reason. It might just be exactly what it he says it is....lack of faith in Marriage. The change that comes with a certificate. Dont know what hes thinking.

hmmmm lv, sounds familiar. I was with a pisces for 7 years and he didnt believe in marriage. Then 3 month after I left, he got his new girlfriend pregnant and married her. Made me feel real good, but whatever. He had said it was fine between us and marriage would just mess things up.

The pisces guy I'm with now was with his gf for over 7 years before they got married. He thinks too that marriage changed their relationship. He says that a piece of paper doesnt mean a thing to him. He has hinted that he would marry me. But I think he'd do it because he knows its important to me.

Personally, I would like to get married. I believe in it. I think it would give me a sense of belonging somewhere. And that thought is important to me. Even if its just a piece of paper...oh and a ring....lol, just kidding, I'm not materialistic

"He said that marriage is not the foundation of a relationship a healthy realtionship is what brings successful relationship."

Agree 100% .. marriage means nothing, except what's on paper if two people aren't in a healthy relationship. A piece of paper will not devote two hearts to each other, it will however give power to uncommited hearts for the purpose of control.

lv24, this is just some thoughts to ponder .. not necessarily what I believe .. just exploring these to see if they feel right ..

"His exact words were "I dont have trust in it"" .. a union is just that, no matter what papers are involved. He can not trust a "person" in that situation .. but, I can't see how a vow can be not trusted simply because it is written on an object.

"He said that he know a lot of people that have had great relationships until they get married...then it all changed" .. It reminds me of something to the effect of, "Don't show me that, or I'll have to do it and won't be able to help myself", as though, the person showing this to you is at fault because you have no self-reliance or constraint. lol It appears to me that his trust issue isn't with the marriage itself, for that isn't possible.

He's not aware that, "It's not guns who kill people .. it's people who kill people."

I think that if I were in your position, I might think about changing my perspective from feeling confused, to comprehending that the problem here is that he isn't seperating the difference between marriage with two hearts who belong together and two hearts who don't belong together.

That's just throwing every person in the same group (like we do in here) and believing that the outcome HAS to be the same with no consideration for any other aspect.

That's not YOUR confusion .. it's his.

Unfortunately, you are faced with a dilemna so huge that it could be life altering for HIM .. and your going to have to ask yourself whether at this time, you need to think about you and your time, or if you need to think about him on this.

What I mean is this .. if you pull away, believing and wanting just the "idea" of the whole Cinderella story living happily ever after, then what this will do to him is CONFIRM his erroneous belief that "marriage" is the villian and causes unhappiness.

See what I mean? So, perhaps, it might be a wise move to just be accepting (for the time being, not long) and attempt to prove to him that marriage isn't evil .. people are.

The pisces men I know love the idea of marriage and kids...in fact every first date Ive been on (with a pisces) has been ended with a marriage proposal/Baby surrogacy for their unborn kids. LOL, such sweet men they are...but I have to tell them HELL NO!.

[thinks of DC and pregnant ladies...😛]

pp is right .. you need to ask yourself some questions here.


Do you really want to marry him?

Or, do you want to be Cinderella and live happily ever after, whether your two hearts belong together, or not?


I'm getting the feeling that something actually prompted him into saying to you, "He said that marriage is not the foundation of a relationship a healthy realtionship is what brings successful relationship."

People say and do things for a reason .. is it possible that he's sensing that your definition of a healthy relationship is based around the "idea" of living happily ever after BECAUSE it is a marriage?

Furthermore, lv24 .. you can't discount the truth about your history with him. It's been a struggle to get on the same page, to say the least. I know for an Aries, you are living in the "today" and how you got here is not relevant because it was yesterday .. but, he's a Pisces and will defo reflect on the road to your partnership and what pitfalls there were along the way ..

After only being truly together for a couple short months, compared to the length of time you two spent at odds, working through the whirlwind .. I would think that the word, "Marriage" shouldn't even be considered at this point in time, much less discussed.

IF this topic is brought up, with him still chewing on every arguement that ever took place and trying to figure out if the two of you are compatible for the short haul, much less the long .. the only thing that's being accomplished is his feathers being ruffled.

Pisces will defy when they feel their back is against the wall .. and most times this is expressed with either indifference, or total contridiction, even when they actually agree.

It makes one think curiously when one person experiences something, while the rest of the fold experience something else.

Perhaps, it isn't Pisces men, M, rather just you thinking it to be true from a reality that only sees from the inside looking out.

I am also curious about all the people who claim to have the inside into the much sought after secrets .. yet, offer no insights.

What secret?

"Here's what I think. If a man is telling you that they don't believe in marriage, what they are saying is that they don't believe in marrying YOU"

That maybe the case but here is the history between us in a nut shell. We dated for 8 months off and on (casual on his part). He was coming our a 2yr relationship with a girl that he referrs to as the devil. He was never fully commited to her because they had so many issues (i didnt know all this until later). In fact he claims that he has never been devoted to ANYONE! I didnt know that i was dating someone that was in and out of a relationship but it later all made sense to me why we were off and on and why we had so many issues. Anyhow after some time (8months) i realized that i wanted more and this man was not devoted to me (after his birthday in March). Which he never gave me the impression that he was devoted to me either I just stuck around because I hoped he would come around. He always told me he couldnt give me what I wanted. So once I realized that he was indeed not going to give me what i wanted I decieded it was time to let go and leave him So I left for about a month with no contact and refused to play the off an on game any longer. Didnt call him or return his calls. He got in touch with me for my birthday in April. I took his call (actually text). He wanted to see me and i refused to. I later accepted his invitation to lunch but refused to see him at his home (didnt want a booty call if that was his intention so i avoided his home). He explained to me everything at that point about his ex and how they had been off an on (our relationship made so much sense at that point). Explained that he thougth i was a great person and realized while I was gone how much he cared for me and wanted to be with me. My absense helped him realize that he was now in a different place and that he has never been commited to anyone and now he is ready to give me 100% . He claimed he seen a future with me and that he was ready to be commited. So now we are just about 3 months into it and now i find out that marriage is not in his future........sucks!!! I know it is too soon to be discussing marriage but it was brought up on accident actually (by him). Anyhow maybe you are right about the maybe he just doesnt see marriage with me but then why go through all the trouble of getting me back and why commit for the first time to someone that you dont see a future with.

"he wants kids and he wants to grow old with someone but doesnt want the marriage"


Lv, it sounds from this comment, that he's not fearing commitment in any way. Quite the opposite, he WANTS a partner to share his life with. It seems like a prudent and mature thing for ANY person to consider all the conditions, history together and intentions before taking such a huge step in life .. I would think that if he just dreamily (in Piscean fashion) followed the fantasy of an "idea", without thought in the aspect of how he would have to provide and nurture within the reality of hasty move because his rainbow was shiny .. that would be what a woman would NOT want to feel secure and safe within his heart.

"Oh look, that over there is shiny" and then follows dreamily.

This man of yours is actually "thinking" about the realities of unions that were made official when the two hearts weren't ready.

I think he's growing .. see, you waited him out and you were right, he is a keeper.

You are right P-Angel it is too soon to bring up Marriage. I didnt bring it up. It was brought up because his mom had a long talk with me about him a while back. She said she really liked me for her son and she said that she knows how difficult he may be but she asked me to stick it out because he is a great guy and has a lot of love and a good heart but that he has a lot of trust issues because his dad left him at a young age and then later was left by his step father. So it came up because he had asked me about the conversation with his mom and i told him. He then said to me its not that i have trust issues because i fully trust you, its that i have issues with marriage. So thats how it came up. i know we have had our ups and downs but he said that my loyatly despite the ups and downs is what he loves about me. He had been constanly reasurring me about his feelings towards me since the Marriage conversation so i dont doubt his love for me and faith in us. I just dont understand all the rest. Maybe Bijou is right maybe he does love me he just doesnt see marriage with ME.

"My absense helped him realize that he was now in a different place and that he has never been commited to anyone and now he is ready to give me 100% ."


See, Lv .. he's maturing and realizing things from a man's perspective, with a sense of responsibilities, rather than just living to be a moth flying into a flame .. empty.

It's going to take time .. he's willing to grow with you, he's proved that. Look at what you two have endured and at one time, it was pure hell .. but, you two survived and are now even stronger.

Don't give up on him now, just because he has a concern, or a worry. Look, you ought to know us Pisces by now .. just because we say it, doesn't mean we believe it .. we have to bring it out into the open to taste it, chew on it, smell it .. to see if it feels right or wrong.

He's exploring how he feels about something .. why he even said that he may not always feel this way ..

Patience, Lv .. just let him see how it feels to consider marriage.

P-Angel

He has grown so much! Complete different person. I have also learned so much from him as well....its been a great experience. I have at many time wanted to bail and had to hold myself back from flying off the handle with him but I come here first and get others inputs and it relaxes my thoughts. I love him and i know its all so new. He is still trying to figure me out because although we have known each other for some time it has been a short time since he has devoted his heart to me. For now I guess I will alow him to get to know me on a deeper level and then once the growing pains of the relationship settle i will see what he feels about marriage. I will give it some time....thanks.

"He had been constanly reasurring me about his feelings towards me since the Marriage conversation so i dont doubt his love for me and faith in us."


Don't even go there with the whole it's you bit .. have some understanding, he has issues to sort through and they can't be done overnight. And they probably can't be done with your support.

If you are going on about him not wanting YOU, when you know with all your heart that he does .. then how in the hell are you suppose to be his support and strength to pull through and see the light and want you to be his Cinderella?

Oops, that sounded like yelling, sorry 🙂

I think that was the last of this discussion with him because I brought it up later night and he became a bit uncomfortable. He is very sensitive and he takes our discussions to an extreme. I am very blunt and straight to the point so i have to really be careful how i approach topics with him because they can go sour very fast. I dont want to push him into a corner so maybe i will let some time pass. I just want to enjoy him right now it was a struggle to get where i am with him. It was hard to gain his trust, commitment and his heart so for now i just want to enjoy it.

Lol! I know your not yelling at me P. I think that we have had so many discussions on my Pisces man that I understand your not pointing fingers your just trying to help me understand.

"Don't even go there with the whole it's you bit .."

When I made that statement i was simple trying to tell Bijou that I understand what she meant and that it could be a possiblity. I dont want to be completly nieve about it and say that its not a possiblity. I am just trying to see all sides.

I actually see myself in his future and i strongly believe he sees me in his. Patience. From my experience he never says things he doesnt mean. When i wanted a more steady relationship in the past he admitted to not being able to give it to me and suggested i go else where. Pisces are realy quick to bail if they dont like a situation...so if he is unhappy he probably wouldnt be here. Thanks for all you input.

I know that's what you meant .. I just being all bossy and shit, you know .. hands on hips, head bobbing indignantly

"He had been constanly reasurring me about his feelings towards me since the Marriage conversation so i dont doubt his love for me and faith in us."

You're so lucky .. you have a man who recognizes by your expressions when he needs to be encouraging and reassuring. Damn, I want one of those ..

Hey, I've got an idea .. since we know that he's going to just take a little time to analyze how he feels about this, maybe in the meantime you can try and befriend some older couples who have had successful marriages. Don't talk about marriage with these people, just hang out with them from time to time and let your man see how happy people can be together, in this constitution.

If his experiences has left a bad taste in his mouth, then give him something positive to taste.

"Pisces are realy quick to bail if they dont like a situation"

All day long, how do I look from the back, is my saying...LOL!!!

----

Yeah, we're bad about that, aren't we?

I swear, years ago when I was single and dating this dude, he said to me accusingly, something like, "You don't want to be with me, do you?"

Back Fin swishing, never to be seen again. No words .. gone !!!

It's like what LV said, if I didn't want to be here, I wouldn't .. so, if you accuse me of not knowing who I am and what I'm going .. adios.

"What's the point of even getting involved if one can't commit? The minute I become intimate with a man, I'd want to commit"


Are you still waiting for your Virgo, SG? A couple weeks ago you said you were moving on because he wouldn't get serious, but, I didn't know if that had changed. Are you still doing alright?

With this situation, it's not about commitment .. the man absolutely wants a woman to share his life with, raise a family, grow old together .. he's just trying to work through some trauma. Luckily for him, he has a woman who is understanding that this isn't about her feelings of not being loved or wanted .. it's about him needing to heal and the love being strong enough to give each other support and encouragment.

SG, I didn't mean that .. it's just your comment reminded me of your Virgo and whether the situation had changed. I thought the two of you had actually hooked up at one point and he did his V-thing of pulling away .. guess I missed that, or forgot.

Glad to hear you're ok now 🙂 I know it was tough going for a while there.

marriage is stupid

I'm not entirely clear why it is not understood that marriage is something that shouldn't be taken lightly and if a person isn't ready, then to NOT rush into this is a responsible attitude.

It's only been a couple months as a partnership .. for him to not want to consider this at this time, appears mature to me.

"When things get uncomfortable and awkward will the pisces bail without trying to work things out?"


It depends on trust .. most times when a Pisces just bails, it's because thier partner constantly questions whether the Pisces loves them, or wants to be with them.

Here's a rule of thumb that every Pisces I know lives by: If I'm here with you, then that means I want to be.

Unfortunately, most people are insecure about their partners loving them, so they constantly accuse them of not. To us, this isn't a matter of US having anything to work you .. it's YOU who has an issue to work out, for you can clearly see, we are here with you, supporting you, adoring you, giving to you .. and yet, you still doubt that we love you. This isn't our problem to work out. So, eventually, we just swim away and look for someone who does believe we love them.

If I'm here with you, it's because I want to be .. if I didn't want to be here with you, then I wouldn't.

I hear you, pp .. this is pretty much it, for me.

"So as long as their is faith in the pisces partner loyalty and commitment is assured?"

Yep, for me this is true. The moment my partner suspects, accuses, or anything else that suggests he doesn't trust my loyalty in loving him, that's it!

It's kind like with the Aries .. if the partner of a Ram CHEATS, that's it .. no if's, and's or but's about it .. it's over on the spot. To the Aries, being totally faithful is the ultimate. Well, to the Pisces, it's similiar, except in the aspect of faith in that we are faithful .. if we didn't want to be with you, we wouldn't.

I've been married twice, totalling almost 27 years and NEVER cheated. If I'm here with you I'm faithful .. you accuse me of being with somebody else or not loving you .. it's over !!!

Which is why most of us don't do jealousy .. some men are insanely jealous and jealousy causes a person to accuse their partners of being unfaithful .. sometimes, we'll tolerate that for a short period of time to see if the partner is going to grasp that we ARE faithful and being jealous means nothing to us .. it doesn't keep us with you, your trust in us keeps us with you. Most times though, we won't tolerate jealousy for very long .. the person has to be really special to us.

I would leave first too .. although, I'm wondering if fantasizing about another person is cheating.

It's only mental, but still .. if your laying with your man, thinking about another, which means you are actually desiring another man to bed, then isn't that still cheating?

Some people say yes, some say no.

For me .. that would still be cheating, for if I love you, then I am with you, even in thought. If I expect him to trust and have faith in me that I love and be with only him .. then, to desire another is still cheating.

But, that's just me.