MEN? (Please respond too)

I have come to believe that men are sneaking around on good girls with bad girls.
People say a man will not marry a whore/slut/freak or whatever... But, they GIVE these women attention and sometimes more attention than women who are being respectful and natural. Granted, respectful women are not interested in just getting sexual attention from a man.

These looser women seem to have a pull on men. Depending on the man, if he is young and immature he will give ALL of his time to these kinds of women. If he is mature and accomplished, she will be the booty call girl. No matter what though, she's getting the man.

I have seen some women have a hold on a man that is unbelievable. They are LOUD, BOSSY, CRASS, RUDE, SELF-CENTERED, DEMANDING, MISTREATS HIM and don't care what anyone thinks about them or their ways. It's like a certain confidence they have in being IMO negative. And everyone can see it but the man. Or, rather they see it but they don't see any reason to not give this woman their time.

I am interested in this more so because a guy I was seeing recently has exes on his MySpace page where one constantly posts comments about being the "Ex-Girlfriend, that's right, don't hate bitches!". While the other comments on one of his photos where there was a car that "Mmmm, mmmmm, mmmm... we made so many memories in that car, but it will be our little secret".

I polled men that I found to have some sense in their head they told me they would not have left the comment up there and that the first girl was being a "chickenhead". It made me really take a look at this guy and decide that no wonder I am not able to reel him in, I don't have anough "Attitude" in me to give him. One even called him a "F*ckin brat". I have never disrespected my man, our business, his future with other women and I never will. But, apparently this guy thinks it's "cute?".

He's not the only man I've seen "enjoying" the behavior of women like that. What is it about women like this that makes men even give them the time of day. Oh, and the two women in question are young (19 and 24). Not old and immature though the 24y/o has less time to get it together (IMO). If I was a man, women like that would drain me.

Can anyone relate?

men are drawn to these women because they are intrigued by them and the excitement thay can bring, not that good girls are not exciting they just don't show it from the start to grab our attention.

There was a female who i was talking to with a little bit of an attidue that drew me in and we would go out for drinks or whatever and it would get pretty wild, and then I started to notice the "LOUD, BOSSY, CRASS, RUDE, SELF-CENTERED, DEMANDING, MISTREATS HIM and don't care what anyone thinks about them or their ways." I left that bitch stranded at the bar (haha, still makes me laugh) when she tried to pull some shit at the bar when i was with my friends. I guess it is live and learn, so only nice girls for me anymore.

I think it has to do with level of maturity.

"I have seen some women have a hold on a man that is unbelievable. They are LOUD, BOSSY, CRASS, RUDE, SELF-CENTERED, DEMANDING, MISTREATS HIM and don't care what anyone thinks about them or their ways. It's like a certain confidence they have in being IMO negative. And everyone can see it but the man. Or, rather they see it but they don't see any reason to not give this woman their time."

Men are not attracted to those things. Boys are attracted to those things.

My girl isn't a "bad" girl but she has her moments where she's not really a good girl either. She's called me out a few times saying that I'm still with her because of "the challenge" and honestly... she's right.


This whole thread reminded me of a line from the movie The Holiday
"Because you're hoping you're wrong. And every time she does something that tells you she's no good, you ignore it. And every time she comes through and suprises you, she wins you over, and you lose that argument with yourself, that she's not for you." -- Iris

"I am interested in this more so because a guy I was seeing recently has .... "

"He's not the only man I've seen "enjoying" the behavior of women like that."



MsA ... I'm not getting you here. If these women are loser women, as you've mentioned, and they have been able to pull on your "boys", then doesn't this mean that your boys were loser boys, also .... IF .... they are attracted to these loser girls?

So, if these boys were losers .. then what the hell are you doing putting so much focus and energy into feeling in competition with loser girls OVER loser boys?

Shouldn't you be goddam thankful these boys showed they were ... before you made any kind of commitment or invested your heart?


You should ..... jealous, to tell you the truth. You sound disgruntled because other women have the ability to attract LOSER BOYS.


Think about that ...........

You should ..... jealous



that was suppose to say: You sound ..... jealous

I'd like to think that by the time we are 60+ we will tend to want a relationship that is full of peace and fosters positive growth and reflection. And yes I live here on Earth.

MsAristocracy: Can anyone relate?

Yes. Most people are clueless about themselves, and therefore about the person who is Right for them.

P-Angel, you should have just come right out with the ugly and not beat around the bush. That's what I've come to respect about you. For a minute, I was almost about to post in accord with you, but your true motive became clear in the knick of time. Tsk...

To everyone else, I actually thought no one was interested in this subject and forgot to come back and check this forum. Thanks for bringing your thoughts and findings. And you too Wilona (P-Angel).

OMG wow I can so relate to this. I dated a guy for two years who could not let go of his ex-girlfriend who was loud, disrespected him in public, and was not lady like at all. And here I was the mature woman, who had and still does have a lot going for her, very respectful, sexy, intelligent and classy. And he put all of his attention and energy into her. And I still believe till this day that he is still seeing her. It amazes me how some men are drawn to these kind of women. This guy did not appreciate the fact that he had a wonderful woman in his life, and he let me slip away. Then he would run back to me and continue to keep her around. It took a toll on me, it was so bad. However, I am glad that drama no longer exists in my life (smiling). And now I hear that he is "in love" with a new girl who treats him like crap and guess what guys? He loves it, and her too.

I am not gonna chase NO MAN as well, i dont really want to be chased either, if its not mutually good, forget it!

One Taurus i dated and still speak with, he was like, you just move on, you dont give a guy a chance, you didnt call, get mad nothing.

Well, i dont want in a relationship where i have to fight, not for attention or anything else.
I want mutual satisfaction and so much more......life is short, lets get on with it!

Piss on the chase/chase game
LIfe is a game, and i dont hate the players, i just play to win the prize i set my eyes on!

Perfect Gem Angel.... Spoken like a TRUE GEMINI...

Aqualeo ~ I so totally agree, problem i have in the past two years being single after a 18 year relationship, is, they dont seem to want to accept it and move on. As, it is work for me to remain "friends" as most single men these days seem to think that "if" we already had sex, than we are friends, why not, etc....... aggravates the piss outta me, i am like, "we grown" lmao!




Babygirl414 ~ Thanks, I am a true gem, trying to a "good girl" and it dont come EASY! LOL! It is a work, a constant conscious work for me.


I recognize being persued, if i am interested, i will step right up and let ya know, if not, well, "friendzone" and i have a pic of a barebutt w/pants dropped, put angel wings on either side of the butt and wrote in the middle "no friend zone" lol, its quite a site to see, i dont know how to post it here for your amuze! LOL

fumingli_scorp ~

If you ALREADY know you will not win, then why waste energy and on top be a spec on the ground because the guy who JUST rejected you wants to feel better?


I have so much more to say, bcuz have a virgo love who 'loves me in some kind of friendly way', but doesn't feel it is romantic. He doesn't want to lose me, still wants to continue friends. Even is afraid of losing me. I don't understand.

At one point he said he needs a fire sign. I guess that means to get her whip out and whip him right and left which I haven't. We were in harmony. So loving. He calls me 'dearest'. What a grandma expression. Sucker ass!!!
He has been whipped all life long. So here I am too good to be important!


************

fumingli_scorp, i can c the relate.
If you already know, then you already know, i just reached that point myself w/my virgoguy.
My virgo has a "connection" with me. call it what you will and as deep as either allow it to go. the deeper allowed, the deeper the hurt from open exposure.


He said he needs a fire sign, how silly is that?
I need the right man, and i know what i like an what i want. when you hit the "except" button, it does not fill the needs. hmmmmmmmmmm


You want to be "too good to be important" fact is, that is not who you are to him. You are what you are, and IM probably "not the one". hard to swallow when someone makes us feel ways we enjoy feeling, and if he is at all like my virgo, such a gentleman with expression towards me. I appreciate it, but, dont b like that when you dont mean it, it opened the doors of care and love. I didnt, he did. actions and words are all good, as long as they are meant and not part of him achieving getting into your pants for self satisfaction cause you rock his world in a way that someone else does not. Selfish, that is what that is, no compassion for another human. No recognition for how you really feel and acknowledge the pages for the two are different and that it is what it is and it is okay. STAY OUTTA MY BED FOOL!

Oh that is right (giggles now) I was his FOOL! WAKE UP!

FS, do these men go to a monthly workshop? LOL...

My Cappy told me he didn't want to lose me either, of course after he told me he didn't know what he wanted and I said I'd allow him time to focus on those things weighing on him. Men don't trust us to be what they need, yet they don't want to lose us. Sucker asses indeed!!!

Sounds like a lot of emotional energy going into trying to understand why another person does what he does .. and it's all based around attention-seeking of another person, without any real substance.

What's up with that?

P-Angel said: "Sounds like a lot of emotional energy going into trying to understand why another person does what he does .. "

* * * * *
My reason for the original posting was to question why a man (who to me is a good man) would entertain a womwn like that?

Your initial response was that if those women are losers because he tolerates their behavior that makes him a loser too.

I was about to work with that thought until you called me jealous.

Anyway, I think that some men like attention regardless if it is positive or negative. Women like that always give off the attention that would give a man that kind of status (he's got it like that/ladies man/etc).

Real men don't need women like that to give them that kind of attention. So, it kind of makes sense that if he's tolerating it, he's no better than they are. Loser...

Alright, maybe "jealous" was the wrong adjective .. how about envious?


If a person inquires exessively about why another has what they don't, and what the other has isn't even worth the energy because it's really no reflection upon you in any way ... then what is this condition, exactly?

Perhaps, that ^^^ is the Piscean selfishness coming through. But, seriously ... what is it these woman have that you want that would compell you to dissect thier attributes, and want to know why a man would choose this kind of woman over another?

Obviously, it's something that bothers you, or you wouldn't have created this thread ... and for the life of me, I can't figure out why. You even mentioned something about checking out this man's facebook to see what's going on (or so I interpreted) .. so, there has to be some sort of concern about why another woman has the ability over you to attract a man you like.

And my Piscean nature screams .. so the fuck what? The only way this can be a reflection on your worth/value is by presenting yourself in such as a tone to suggest that you are disgruntled by it.

I'll leave you with my personal quote that many people get out of my mouth eventually, when they reduce themselves to comparing themselves with another, as if it matters to their self-worth ..... The day you learn that subjectivity is a choice, is the day you will be free from the disgruntlement you cause yoursef.

lol .. speak to me when you figure out how to comprehend, ME.

Until that day happens and you insist on not even attempting to grasp what is being said ... I'm afraid you will have to endure a condenscending attitude from me because I have zero tolerance for stupidty and ignorance.

Which I'm sure you will do that ^^^^ .. you're a Cancer, you only know how to take things subjectively, as if your feelings are involved.

For the record I actually like the thread, and its very unfortunate that more men have not responded. But do they really need to? Probably not. I'm sure that deep down we all know why men choose these types of women, and if so we have to ask ourselves if we would event want someone like that. I dont think questioning this behavior is necessarily about envy or being jealous. Its about wanting to hear an answer from the horses mouth-so to speak. I'm sure that men and women have asked themselves at one time or another why the object of their affection would choose someone who is obviously subpar to themselves. Its a natural emotion to thing "why him/why her". What's not natural is to harp on it and start to have self doubt.

"I'm sure that deep down we all know why men choose these types of women, and if so we have to ask ourselves if we would event want someone like that."


I actually like this thread, also .. that is IF it has created the above to go deep down to ask ourselves, which apparantly the author finally did. However, what point is there to have this answer of men, if we already know?

Does having confirmation change it? Does it provide any kind of benefit for a woman to actually "hear" the words, or would it just add more fuel to the fire?

Think about that .....

Are you sure it's unfortunate that more men haven't confirmed this, or is it actually fortunate?

"I'm sure that men and women have asked themselves at one time or another why the object of their affection would choose someone who is obviously subpar to themselves. Its a natural emotion to thing "why him/why her"."


I would agree that it's natural for a person to ask "why" on any topic, however, not necessarily as beneficial.

We are egotistical beings, EVERYBODY is subpar. For a woman scorned, or upset in any way due to her ego being challenged by another female, as it pertains to value ... even the sweetest, moral woman in the world, a real lady ... a woman scorned will find to be subpar in comparison in some way.

I personally dont think its unfortunate, but then again I'm a different breed. I will live and die and continue to believe that we always know the answers to our inner most questions. And yes, some people do need to bounce thoughts and ideas of off others to seek validation or in some instances a level of peace.

"We are egotistical beings, EVERYBODY is subpar. For a woman scorned, or upset in any way due to her ego being challenged by another female, as it pertains to value ... even the sweetest, moral woman in the world, a real lady ... a woman scorned will find to be subpar in comparison in some way."

Not necessarily. I think that if your feelings for someone are true and you have managed to check your ego at the door-you can truly be happy for someone even if they arent with you. But a female who can honestly do that is a rare find.

"I will live and die and continue to believe that we always know the answers to our inner most questions."


What I find unfortunate is that people don't like to listen to this voice, because they don't trust it. It's always right, though.

"I think that if your feelings for someone are true and you have managed to check your ego at the door-you can truly be happy for someone even if they arent with you."


Perhaps, Klover Fish, and most certainly a Piscean can ... however, if a person "questions" the value of another woman, as compared to herself ... then ego is not checked at the door, it is the motivator.

You're right. But then we would have to question the fine line between a healthy ego and bitterness.

speak to me when you figure out how to comprehend, ME.

Until that day happens and you insist on not even attempting to grasp what is being said ... I'm afraid you will have to endure a condenscending attitude from me because I have zero tolerance for stupidty and ignorance.

If ego was the factor then im sure people would never take any advice and ask opinions. This would be a misfortune.

The ego is a greedy monster that needs to be fed. The very same people who seek advice do so to feed the beast. They need to be validated as a form of self satisfaction.

Its human nature for some. If you know who you are you wont need other people to tell you, or make you feel that your choices are "ok"

A Pisces doesn't need affirmation from another person ... we are completely self-sufficient with knowing who and what we are.

As a man, from my perspective, I do see some reasons why men does that.

See, here the needs are different. Everyone of us have different sides of us that need to be satisfied. Good men need good girl to complement his need for true love, long term security etc. No matter how good a man or a girl is, there is always a side that complements his good side. And that's what compels them to go to bad girls, may be to seek challenge, wildness......it can be anything, which he thinks cannot be complemented by his good girl. If all the good men are not doing it, it's simply because they weren't provided with a situation or an opportunity to do so.

P-Angel said: "what is it these woman have that you want that would compell you to dissect thier attributes, and want to know why a man would choose this kind of woman over another?"

The man is all I wanted. I actually think more highly of the man than what meets the eyes (don't ask how or why lol). But, IMO, the person that I perceive him to be would not entertain those women. So, I question what's his fascination (and men like him) with these women because they are not mature nor require/offer much, yet they get the man, not in a real relationship, but nonetheless his attention and time.

P-Angel said: "I'll leave you with my personal quote that many people get out of my mouth eventually, when they reduce themselves to comparing themselves with another, as if it matters to their self-worth ..... The day you learn that subjectivity is a choice, is the day you will be free from the disgruntlement you cause yoursef."

It doesn't matter to my self-worth, I'm aware of my wealth. But, it impairs my ability to move forward with this man and it befuddles me as to how these women progressed when they're on such a level. I'm not even being arrogant but I think I recognize the popular consensus on this and I'm calling it such. These women should n ot have ever gotten his time. Unless... like you said, he is (actually) no better than they are.

"the person that I perceive him to be would not entertain those women"

"it impairs my ability to move forward with this man"


This completely throws a wrench into my logical systems. How could a person be so UNaware, even when they voice it themselves?

How can emotions have such a hold, that all reasonability and practical senses gets ignored?


Your upset here is that it impairs your ability to move forward with a man to whom you KNOW his true characteristics are NOT as you percieve him to be.

Can you not see that he IS THIS MAN WHO WOULD ENTERTAIN THESE WOMEN BECAUSE THIS IS HIS EXACT ACTIONS? Can you not recognize that your perception of him is altered and has blinded you to comprehend his actions?


You KNOW that how you percieve him is in a false light of who he really is ..... and would still continue to chase him as if he is a winner?


"It doesn't matter to my self-worth"


It should ... and if it did matter, then you wouldn't be finding yourself in this self-inflicted situation .. because IF your self-worth mattered to you, self respect would supercede.

P-Angel said: "Does having confirmation change it? Does it provide any kind of benefit for a woman to actually "hear" the words, or would it just add more fuel to the fire?"

Actually, I just want to have a discussion with him about why he can't see that the road these women lead to goes nowhere. But, who am I to judge anyone else to advance my ownself.

* * * * *

Thanks Moon, Klover and P-Angel for liking my thread. 🙂

* * * * *

Klover_Fish said: "What's not natural is to harp on it and start to have self doubt."

I hope I'm not harping on it but I guess since I don't see the problem ending any time soon (not that it would) I just feel like it's still worth discussing.

* * * * *

moon_eyes said: "If people always listened to what they thought then dont you think that there would be more harm in the world? "

Ooh, that's a scary thought. I always prefer to run things pass someone else (after I've torn it to pieces) because I want to know that my final decision is properly weighed and I can only get that satisfaction by listening to less biased opinions. So, good observation. In this case, I did figure my own opinion as to why but I really just needed to know that I wasn't viewing it from a selfish place.

* * * * *

A thought, if no one ever spoke about their concerns, asked advice, others would rarely learn things because the only other way is to witness it and decipher it through self, and even then the person witnessing will probably want to talk about it with someone else to see what they thought. We speak because it's natural. Thank goodness!

I remember when you first came here ... on the Pisces board about a P-man. Then, too, you spoke as if your only priority in life is to follow your heart to the edge of a cliff .. you could see the cliff looming up ahead and knew you would plummet .. and just closed your eyes and fell anyway.


This is NOT the characteristics of a strong, confident and worthy woman who knows her worth ... this is the characteristic of a weak, desperate woman, who knows not what she is worth.


Loop this around to one of those kind of women you are speaking about as if they are worthless in comparison to you ... they may be a Bitches, but they are STRONG, they aren't doormats at his foot, they are determined ..... they would STOP at the edge of the cliff, flip their backwards with resolve and tell him ..

.. you jump, asshole, I'm better than that.


You follow over the edge ..


Several months ago, I told you that I was finished trying to get you to gain some dignity and self-respect .. and so I stopped talking to you because I realized it was pointless. I try again, to see if you've grown at all, and you haven't.

You KNOW what his actions indicate, you said it, you acknowledged it ... and you KNOW that your perception of him is false and that you've clouded your perception of him, knowingly.

I'm done .. I have zero tolerance for stupidity and ignorance, and hopefully, my Piscean nature won't compell me to attempt to help you again in the future until you've grown and matured enough to actually look inside yourself for the truth.

P-Angel said: "It should ... and if it did matter, then you wouldn't be finding yourself in this self-inflicted situation .. because IF your self-worth mattered to you, self respect would supercede."

You misconstrued that statement of mine. I said the situation does not matter to my self-worth not that my self-worth does not matter to me.

P-Angel said: "I remember when you first came here ... on the Pisces board about a P-man. Then, too, you spoke as if your only priority in life is to follow your heart to the edge of a cliff .. you could see the cliff looming up ahead and knew you would plummet .. and just closed your eyes and fell anyway.


This is NOT the characteristics of a strong, confident and worthy woman who knows her worth ... this is the characteristic of a weak, desperate woman, who knows not what she is worth.


Loop this around to one of those kind of women you are speaking about as if they are worthless in comparison to you ... they may be a Bitches, but they are STRONG, they aren't doormats at his foot, they are determined ..... they would STOP at the edge of the cliff, flip their backwards with resolve and tell him ..

.. you jump, asshole, I'm better than that.


You follow over the edge ..


Several months ago, I told you that I was finished trying to get you to gain some dignity and self-respect .. and so I stopped talking to you because I realized it was pointless. I try again, to see if you've grown at all, and you haven't.

You KNOW what his actions indicate, you said it, you acknowledged it ... and you KNOW that your perception of him is false and that you've clouded your perception of him, knowingly.

I'm done .. I have zero tolerance for stupidity and ignorance, and hopefully, my Piscean nature won't compell me to attempt to help you again in the future until you've grown and matured enough to actually look inside yourself for the truth."

* * * * *

W.T.F.—

moon_eyes said: "Aristocracy this is a great tread!(minus a bit of turbulence) Kudos!"

* * * * *

You know, every time I think P-Angel wants to help (me) I realize she is just setting me up to try and knock me down.

It's like trusting someone to lead you away from looming danger only to be caught in a dark hiding spot where they then rape you.

P-Angel, you feel you've learned a lesson, me too. So thanks, but no thanks. Let's part here. 🙂

"Most people are clueless about themselves, and therefore about the person who is Right for them"

I couldnt have put it better myself :-)