New, looking for some libra insight! Please :-) (Page 2)

Message posted by: little_sparrow on 4/25/2007 2:46:56 PM ip: xxx.xxx.xxx.126
She isn't saying don't be yourself, she is saying don't act from a place of insecurity and fear.


Thank You!! You feel me (:

So we should become like men - lose our femininety and act like a mate. Thank goodness there is no game there then.

I am a Libra and still married to a Libra and given that this Aries Girl and Libra Boy were already dating, putting the door ajar is fine. Libra Boy liked Aries Girl enough to date her - that's game over.

This is what I have learned about men. Men like honesty. They want the other guy to say, "Hey man! You stole my chicken ball. Don't take my chicken balls without asking." (This is an argument I recently witnessed between two roommates.)

They respect that. They respect the clear, direct, don't be a jackass bottom line.

What they don't want is, "I can't believe you stole my chicken ball. My mom made those for me. Don't you know what they mean to me? Why would you do that to me? Don't you love me? What about how I feel? I feel so betrayed. Don't you care about me? Don't you care about my chicken balls? What am I going to eat now that you ate my chicken balls? I specifically left one chicken ball for my lunch tomorrow. NOW what am I going to do? How can I trust you if you always take my chicken balls? I am so upset that you would do this to me ...."

Men just want the bottom line. They want one or two very clear statements. You fucked up. This is how. Don't do it again.

Don't take it personally. Don't get emotional about their stuff. They generally mean well.

I don't think you did anything wrong by poking him. Sometimes they need to be poked.

No. You can still be feminine without being emotional.

Men seem to like a girl that can go toe to toe with them and isn't afraid of them.

Sorry, I am at work, and will post more indepth in a bit...

"She isn't saying don't be yourself, she is saying don't act from a place of insecurity and fear. "

I don't see it like that. Yes, some women do act from a place of insecurity and fear, but all displays of emotion are not like that. I merely see it as having a confidence in my emotions... I am confident in my emotions, therefore I have no problems displaying them.

Perhaps this is merely a difference between air signs and more emotionally centered signs...

Anyhow, I am just learning how to do this in intimate relationships. When I was younger, I didn't say anything when I was hurt. In some ways, I am lucky I am the only girl in an all man comedy troupe, by definition I have to learn how to hold my own against 8-10 men.

I think men have a huge sense of relief when you just don't take them so seriously. I think by just accepting that they are have a bit of the yahoo in them, and don't act all disappointed and judgmental, it makes it kind of safe for them to be them. And when you just say ... "yeah ... don't do that" with not a lot of weepy, weeps ... they usually back right down.

They are just as scared of us as we are of them.

🙂

"Men seem to like a girl that can go toe to toe with them and isn't afraid of them."

Merely because I am confident enough to display my emotions doesn't mean that I cannot go toe to toe with a man, in any way.

One more... LOL! This is like crack!

"Men seem to like a girl that can go toe to toe with them and isn't afraid of them."

And, yet, you are saying be afraid of what he will think when you display emotions. Either you are not afraid, or you are...

men don't have a clue about your emotions, he doesn't want to deal with it, he doesn't understand them and he will more than likely be confused and want to distance himself, not saying in your case but in most cases 94.5% of the time,

there other approaches that women can take that can be so much more effective in making a guy open up if the emotions is put into a certain context they can be very effective in making a man open up...most women on the boards are griping that the men shut down and run off and you wonder why??

As LSP said: Men just want the bottom line. They want one or two very clear statements. You fucked up. This is how. Don't do it again.

as I said I don't think she should have called but hey, who cares about what I think, she's free to do what she pleases.

There is a difference between being emotional and displaying that you're in touch with your emotions. I never display emotions and have been told that I am cold. Just don't be cold.

no don't be afraid of what he thinks...she will just have confirmed that she isn't emotionally mature and confirmed the reasons why he has either chosen not to be in a longterm relastionship with her or with anyone.

Most women don't know that emotional maturity is one of the top 5 things men look for when choosing a long term mate, a man is much more attracted to a woman that knows how to handle her life and her emotions, doesn't mean he won't give it a go and tap it, but most women don't realize this and continue to make mistakes...there is a method to the madness, it doesn't have to be hard.

"AQ this probably won't be the last time he steps back. Some of these guys do that, just to take it all in and weight things in their minds, most times it isn't negative. You should contact him. I find it best to be honest with these guys... Not too emotional too soon just light and straight to the point."

Thanks for your insight SQ. I think he may have taken a step back in the past, but I sent a text, and I'll get another call/date. I'm not sure I'm really able to deal with this though. I really like people to be upfront with me 😢

have all the emotions you want but know that every emotion doesn't have to be on display like a Macy's window towards the man, learn restraint when dealing with men, once your married you can be as emotional as you wanna be lol!! J/K! But I'm sorta not (:

"men don't have a clue about your emotions, he doesn't want to deal with it, he doesn't understand them and he will more than likely be confused and want to distance himself, not saying in your case but in most cases 94.5% of the time, "

Hmmm... Well, out of all the men I have dated, I have never once been dumped. My way seems to be working well for me. I hope your way is working well for you, too...


🙂

Speaking your truth calmly, simply and clearly can be incredibly powerful, and disarming-- and just makes you feel good. 🙂

Noone listens to anyone in the middle of an emotional battle. Nothing happens but everyone gets more and more upset. You have to do it when you are calm and clear.

* And, yet, you are saying be afraid of what he will think when you display emotions.

You are twisting my intent.

As a woman, if you had an emotional fit on me, I would think you were emotionally unstable and wouldn't deal with you until you were rational. I HATE big emotional scenes. Who needs the stress and drama?

I think it is even worse for men.

Men don't like when women cry. If they are anything like me, it makes them itchy. They have been taught not to hurt girls. Crying = hurt = not making you happy.

Men want to make you happy.

You are an Aqua female and a Libra female talking. And it shows how true to type you are. You're taking the easy way out. You're the adapting parties here. Trying to find the middle ground is what's sexy. Only when I crossed the 50/50 line, showed warmth, understanding and compassion did I get what I want. Don't become an ice queen!

"As a woman, if you had an emotional fit on me, I would think you were emotionally unstable and wouldn't deal with you until you were rational. I HATE big emotional scenes. Who needs the stress and drama?"

I have seen you do this before. Everytime I talking about displaying emotions, you automatically jump to the conclusion I am talking about something emotional scene and drama. Emotion != drama... There is a difference.

And for the record, being an ex-software engineer and in a field predominantly populated by men, I am also generally one of the guys. I don't run around crying at every drop of a hat.

I'm not going back and forth with this, some of you get it, some don't

There is a middle ground with emotions and how they are conveyed to other people. Some women are so caught up with there own pespectives, needs and feelings that they never once think about how it affects others. They jus put it all out there and expect the others to know what to do with it, hell he doesn't even understand his own feelings half the time.

If women took the time to KNOW how men think, how they communicate, what approaches are effective and not effective, how the non verbal equals to verbal, it would save alot of time and energy.

I'm starting to see that women aren't the innocent bystanders as I once thought, I can see why men have such a hard time connecting with us and distance themselves with time and space.

"I'm starting to see that women aren't the innocent bystanders as I once thought, I can see why men have such a hard time connecting with us and distance themselves with time and space"

Yes, and I am beginning to see why men tend to think all women play games and act like know-it-all's... LOL!


As I said, I hope your way is working well for you, because mine is working quite well for me... 🙂

and for the record I never once said to stop feeling and to stop being compassionate, loving, loyal, communicative...I simply said their is a way to connect with men without the drama, what you don't consider drama is drama to a man. If women understood this, they would be more to the point with less emotional energy that is carried behind it.

and I don't care what anyone says, if a man is distancing himself...give him all the space he needs, stop chasing his ass and trying to find out whats wrong or pick up were you left off, this is futile...let him come to you.

I'm not a know it all...but I'm glad you think so

its not about playing games, I'm not dishonest in any shape or form but I know not to fall into the traps that alot of women fall into...the trap of focusing on the details when it comes to men and never really able to relax and let the relationship flow on its own.

sarcasm is a cover for hiding anger...jus a little fyi (:

Tiki - I think you should perhaps realise that your writing comes across as very agressive, very direct and very personal - maybe that is how you think the world works and what men like to see in a woman - but this thread happens to be with girls only and you can be normal with us. Lol. Lighten up.

"and I don't care what anyone says"

If you don't care what anyone says, then why do you keep responding?

"if a man is distancing himself...give him all the space he needs, stop chasing his ass and trying to find out whats wrong or pick up were you left off, this is futile...let him come to you."

If he is distancing himself, yes... BUT, not everything you seem to think of as distancing actually is. Quit trying to ASSUME you know what every man thinks, wants, and desires, because I know a lot of men that would prove you wrong.

"I'm not a know it all...but I'm glad you think so"

I did say "act like"... 😉

"its not about playing games, I'm not dishonest in any shape or form but I know not to fall into the traps that alot of women fall into...the trap of focusing on the details when it comes to men and never really able to relax and let the relationship flow on its own."

If you are not being forthcoming, then yes, you are being dishonest...with the person you are with and most of all with yourself. Emotional maturity is not acting like your emotions are ugly step-children that you need to hide away, but being comfortable with them as a natural part of you.

And, "the trap" is constantly trying to guess what the man is thinking and wanting and modifying who you are accordingly. THAT is the trap, you that you seem to be pleased to jump into...

"sarcasm is a cover for hiding anger...jus a little fyi (:"

Sometimes, and sometimes it is just humor. As Freud said, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar...

* THAT is the trap, one that you seem to be pleased to jump into...

Poor AQ, all she wanted to know if she should contact this guy after the awkward episode and it's turned into how us women should not be emotional or feminine or needy.

Just chill Tiki...your posts come across as very defensive and aggressive. I've gone back and read some of your posts asking others for advice and you are quite hypocritical in your words to others vs. you seeking advice from others.

Everyone just chill.

Two Dallas girls getting into a debate with a Houston girl as the mediator - what's wrong with that picture? 🙂

I'm cool she's the one heated lol!!

I never lose my cool over a conversation

hypocritical in my words...okay thats something that I can check myself on and tweak it if I need to.

If I come off as defensive and aggressive than I think alot of you have thin skin.

either way I don't get upset over post, I said I didn't think she needed to contact him and others said she should, of course she used her own judgement as she should.

peace

"If I come off as defensive and aggressive than I think alot of you have thin skin."

No, Tiki...this has nothing to do with whether we have thin skin or thick skin - it has everything to do with tact.

I can roll with anyone that want to have a battle of wits or words with me, but I generally choose tact over tasteless.

yeah, peace.

Message posted by: Libra on 4/25/2007 4:33:03 PM ip: xxx.xxx.xxx.5
Tiki - I think you should perhaps realise that your writing comes across as very agressive, very direct and very personal - maybe that is how you think the world works and what men like to see in a woman - but this thread happens to be with girls only and you can be normal with us. Lol. Lighten up.

I will take that into consideration Libra and for the record I'm always light...this is who I am period...It will change when I see a need for it to change but again I will take all criticism into consideration and change if I see the need to do so *wink*

oh and none of this is personal...my apologies to anyone who may have been offended, I won't apologize for being me but I will apologize if I came off as a jerk or what I said sounded as a personal attack.

"I won't apologize for being me"

...yet you can put down AQ for being her?

well personally its thin skin in my opinion and I haven't battled with anyone with words on this board and the people that are normally pointing are the ones that behave that way, I don't care how people come across on the boards, this is a place of self expression, I didn't think I needed to tip toe around grown women.

I never put AQ down...puhleeze

would you like to be reminded of where you put her down?

blah, it's not worth it.

Sorry AQ for such bitterness on your thread.

I still say you did the right thing by texting him back and keeping it light. Ball's in his court now.

I know Tiki, it's just conversation. No need to change - not for any of us.

Remember men are only superior because we exist too. Tell'em I said that.

Message posted by: Libra on 4/25/2007 5:09:33 PM ip: xxx.xxx.xxx.5
I know Tiki, it's just conversation. No need to change - not for any of us.

Remember men are only superior because we exist too. Tell'em I said that.

ROTFL!! I will hand deliver it *wink*

"I'm cool she's the one heated lol!!"

Oh, please... That isn't heated, that is just having fun. I always enjoy a good debate and never escalate until some else does (I know how to play fair). 🙂

Anyway, I think that we will just have to agree to disagree. Hopefully, at some point, one of the men, who have been undoubtly laughing their butts off on the sidelines at all of us, will chime in and give a definitive answer.

* your writing comes across as very agressive, very direct and very personal

I don't see this at all.

* Just chill Tiki...your posts come across as very defensive and aggressive.

or this.

I think she is being direct and honest. No one likes what she is saying so everyone else is getting defensive. (shrugs)

Oh, and AQ, sorry about the diversion to your thread. I think you did the right thing with texting if that is what you were wanting to do. Just stay true to your heart, no matter what... If you follow others advice and it ends up going wrong, you will only regret it. And, if you follow you heart and it ends up going wrong, then atleast you were being yourself and true to yourself. You can never truly go wrong by staying true to your heart, no matter what advice other people may give you (me, tiki, or anyone else...lol).

I actually see having big emotional scenes as game-playing. To me, it is emotional manipulation to get that person's way. It is weakness because they can't get their point across in a calm way so they have to rely on theatrics.

I don't see stating something in one or two sentense in a matter of fact, direct way as emotional manipulation. I don't see it as game-playing. I see it as dealing with the problem and finding a solution open to negotation.

But as alcheme would point out, I am not in a relationship so therefore I have no ground to stand on. 😉

ROTFL@But as alcheme would point out, I am not in a relationship so therefore I have no ground to stand on.

"I actually see having big emotional scenes as game-playing. To me, it is emotional manipulation to get that person's way. It is weakness because they can't get their point across in a calm way so they have to rely on theatrics."

But, again, not all emotional displays are big emotional scenes. Is a spontaneous burst of laughter a big emotional scene? Is a smile of true joy a big emotional scene?

Is it possible that people are capable of voicing and displaying their emotions without big emotionl scenes? I would emphatically say yes.

I don't like big emotional scenes, either. They generally drain me and make me want to bitch slap some sense into the person who has apparently gone off the deep end... But not all displays of emotions are crying, ranting, raving, or anything else that one would associate with "big emotional scenes". That is not having confidence in yourself and your emotions, that is being controlled by them, and there is a big difference between the two.

"But as alcheme would point out, I am not in a relationship so therefore I have no ground to stand on."

I did not mean it that badly, sweetie. I know you know that, but I did have to say it. I was merely trying to make a point. I do not have all the answers, but neither does anyone else. I was just trying to point out the irony that someone who is trying to claim that they know how all men think, what all men want, and the sure fire way to a perfect relationship doesn't seem to have succeeded very well with their own "sure fire" advice (not necessarily speaking of you)...

There is no sure fire way to succeed in a relationship or with all men. Just be yourself, whoever that may be (emotional or not) and someday you (generally speaking, lol) will find the right man that fits with you... Until then, take the others back to the store and get a refund. You can undoubtly get something of far better quality if you keep shopping around...

Men completely baffle me. That is why I find this subject fascinating.

I have gone from 100% female friends. To 85% male friends. They have this whole other society, this whole other power exchange. It is fascinating. How they resolve differences, how they pick the leader, how they establish pecking order. It is really, really interesting.

And alcheme, I am sorry for pulling you onto the floor re: the I am not in a relationship so therefore I have no ground to stand on, as I believe you meant well but that is one of the big no-nos in female society. I like to call it the smug-married syndrome.

I have avoided marriage for this long, for this very reason. I do not like the notion that in female society a woman's worth is based on whether or not she has a man and/or her attractiveness to the male species. Women should NOT compete for men. They should be allies. The dualities need to stop because they help no one.

A lot of times, relationships just come down to luck and timing.

I understand what you are saying. But people should act out of the truth of who they are not the fear of who they are not. When you act out of insecurity, you act out of not your power but your shadow side.

When you say follow your heart, it should be follow your true heart not your fear.

Know what I mean?

One of the weird things I have learned is that women don't have to be "nice". Women always think they have to tolerate, and sooth, and make better, and make no waves, and be sugar and sweet, and give and give and give.

Oddly, don't seem to want that. They seem to see that as some sort of trap or form of manipulation. From what I can tell, men want women to be real, just not dramatic about it. Just plain old real.

Anyway, I doubt anyone will agree. I just find this topic interesting.

Nighty night!

"And alcheme, I am sorry for pulling you onto the floor re: the I am not in a relationship so therefore I have no ground to stand on, as I believe you meant well but that is one of the big no-nos in female society. I like to call it the smug-married syndrome."

All things considered, I have never really cared what the do's and dont's of female or any other society was... I was not trying to be smug. I was trying to prove a point. Not the point that I knew everything, but that obviously neither did she...

And, on a side note, I may disagree with you, but I don't wish either of you ill-will. My response was on some level agreeing to disagree. I will stick with mine as it works for me, and from your standing, you will no doubt stick with yours. And, I DO hope it works for you. Life is too short to wish negativity on people... So, you found a different answer. We all have to find our own, and maybe yours is no more right or wrong than mine. I merely have problems when people start proclaiming that they know the only right answer, because even if there was only one, I doubt ANY of us knows it...

"I do not like the notion that in female society a woman's worth is based on whether or not she has a man and/or her attractiveness to the male species. Women should NOT compete for men."

I absolutely agree, which is generally why I do not get along with females very well. Their games with men, their telling everyone else how to live their lives like theirs is perfect, and their stabbing each other in the back the first chance they get to nab some other girls man (or for any other reason) is just asinine. I tend to prefer people who don't play games, and to me, most women do (with men and with other women). Maybe that is not how they see it, but it is how I see it. So, the vast majority of my friends have always been males. I just click with them better...

"A lot of times, relationships just come down to luck and timing"

I would absolutely agree.

"I understand what you are saying. But people should act out of the truth of who they are not the fear of who they are not. When you act out of insecurity, you act out of not your power but your shadow side."

I would agree. As I said, there is a distinct difference between confidence in yourself and your emotions and being controlled by your emotions. Acting solely out of fear and insecurity, to me, is being controlled by your emotions.

"When you say follow your heart, it should be follow your true heart not your fear."

I absolutely, positively agree!! 🙂

You know, I think emotions are like little breasts... LOL! Haha! No really, though. There are women that go around thinking that men want big breasts and wear these uber-padded bras trying to give them what they think that they want. Likewise, there are women that believe that men don't want women to display any emotion, so they hide their emotions behind this ballsy, untouchable facade (not necessarily anyone here). And, of course, there are others that are the opposite. They have highly emotional big drama scenes...

What I really think that men want is just for a woman to be confident and comfortable with who she is, on every level (breasts, emotions, butt, stomach, face, mistakes, accomplishments, all of it). Most importantly, though, is that I think that is what every woman (and man) needs for themselves, not for someone else. Being confident and comfortable with who you are isn't hiding the emotions you naturally have and want to share away in some locked box, but it also isn't being emotional drama queens. To me, both are being controlled by fear.

This is why I say to act true to your heart, to be confident in yourself, and to just be you. And, if your natural reactions and ways are unemotional (like most air signs are), then BE unemotional, because that is who YOU are. And, if your natural reactions and ways are emotional, then feel comfortable communicating those emotions.

But, I think that what we all need to try to remember is that no one (man or woman or sign) is made from a cookie cutter (physically, emotionally, intellectually, or psychologically). We are all unique and have different ways of being and things that we want and value (women and men) and that none of those ways are wrong, just different...

Once we get slightly uncomfortable with someone or a situation, it takes us a while to get back to where we were. Libra man is shy as well. And unlike aries, we think way too much before we do something. You have to push him and pull him. and nothing to fear. He will come back. Just a matter of time.

Text like "Are you confused about me?" can put things back to normal. You will have to hit his brain with something strong and simple which makes him think as well as understand you are still interested.

P.S: Avoid typical romantic cliques.

"Once we get slightly uncomfortable with someone or a situation, it takes us a while to get back to where we were. Libra man is shy as well. And unlike aries, we think way too much before we do something. You have to push him and pull him. and nothing to fear. He will come back. Just a matter of time" UH HUH!!!!

Personally, and believe me, I've been through a hell of a rollercoaster ride with my Libran man, I'd write "looking forward to catching up with you soon, are you free on - - - and let him decide"...simple!!!

Thanks everyone for their comments :-) I'm sorry I stirred up so much drama (regarding drama, lol!)

I was going to let him go at his own pace at this point. Honestly, I don't know what to take from what initially happened to mess things up.

Does anyone have any insight as to what he was thinking? Not attracted to me? Afraid of the closeness, commitment issues? Sexual problems? I'm at the point where I'm not sure this guy even LIKES me!

Also, I'm not a very emotional or drama filled person (or clingy as Tiki puts it), I am an independent woman, who doesn't think she needs a man to complete her. I thought it best to show my emotional side on a forum where I was safe, versus taking it out on the man himself. I've been proposed to five times in my life, so I must have some emotional security, or I doubt that these events would have happened. I am very direct with my statments, so those are moot points.

If those with the 'men insight' would like to comment on why this happened from the guy's persepective I'd be grateful. Or, your opinions on where the man sits at this point, would be helpful as well. That is my source of confusion, not whether I should contact him or not. I'm totally grateful to HP and Libra who encouraged me to contact him, I believe that was the best thing for me to do. It was nice having your opinions :-)

I'm also interested in this from a LIBRA perspective. Help anyone?