does love conquer all?

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Magenta_Azure
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No.

Stay grounded in reality always. See things for what they really are, not what you want them to be. If you've tried to make something work and it didn't, try a little harder. If it still doesn't work, accept what you cannot change. Reflect on the memories, the emotion, the joy, the sorrow, the growth. Appreciate and cherish all that you've learned and walk away a better person.

Let every ouce of hope you have teach you more and more about your emotional capacity as a human being. Never get stuck in learning. Remember to keep moving.
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Damnata
@Damnata
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Posted by jeane
Posted by Damnata
Posted by jeane
is there a point where two people who truly love each other should face reality and accept they are beaten?
Yes. Timing and circumstances play a huge part.

I am a romantic at heart but I take this into account.
you wouldn't wait for the love of your life?
click to expand

I only understand "waiting" under one scenario. There is constant contact between the two parties and both expressed picking things up in better circumstances. Basically both are looking in the same direction and know they want to build something with each other, so all they have to do is weather the inconveniences until then. And in this case, they are inconveniences and waiting makes sense.

But the other type of waiting I see people engage in is for someone who is not into contact with them. I'm not saying people shouldn't harbor hope but people actively put their lives on hold for others who really could care less, as they are actively enjoying theirs. I wouldn't want someone to put their life on hold for me either, so I can't do that type of waiting. It makes a mockery out of experiencing life and time is limited on this plane.
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FirstDecanTaurianWoman0428
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@RumiLove- Love is reality though. .. It's supposed just come when you least expect it. It's supposed to be shown in more ways through actions and words simultaneously. Some have had a hard childhood to believe love.. I grew up with loving but detached parents, and as I grew older my own placements make me realize romantic love is fairy tale and it's not that easy. It's hard to explain when I see the words love, hopeless romantic, heart on the sleeves, and romantic love. Blah blah. But I still keep my mind open to the possibility it is real..

Maybe certain placements forbid making love happen easy. Not for me anyways. Haha. It's like tough love which is what I grew up into as an adult. And still have that mentality..
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aquapiscescusp
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Posted by jeane
Posted by Damnata
Posted by jeane
is there a point where two people who truly love each other should face reality and accept they are beaten?
Yes. Timing and circumstances play a huge part.

I am a romantic at heart but I take this into account.
you wouldn't wait for the love of your life?
click to expand

hmm only if I was the love of his life?
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aquapiscescusp
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Posted by jeane
Posted by aquapiscescusp
sorry, I just read where you wrote "mutual feelings" but that almost has an uncertainty in tone... besides, if it was truly mutual you wouldn't be asking us
no it is mutual, sorry, was just having a low moment. interesting responses though!

i guess it is that old libra dichotomy - do you listen to your head or your heart?
click to expand

ahhh there it is, when we have something good, we question it to death

it's not easy to find -- give it a go
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jeane
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Posted by aquapiscescusp
what kind of trouble?
not jail or anything like that. just life - family, work, illness. transitory stuff that when it builds can make you question how strong is the love? how strong are you? what will you risk for it? what are you prepared to sacrifice? what would you suffer in the short term for a happy ending? is the love enough or will life's obstacles defeat you?
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aquapiscescusp
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Posted by jeane
Posted by aquapiscescusp
what kind of trouble?
not jail or anything like that. just life - family, work, illness. transitory stuff that when it builds can make you question how strong is the love? how strong are you? what will you risk for it? what are you prepared to sacrifice? what would you suffer in the short term for a happy ending? is the love enough or will life's obstacles defeat you?
click to expand

no, not just love -- commitment, maturity and understanding

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jeane
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i read this the other day. it helped me with this question. thought it might be of interest to someone.

If You Have To Force It, You're Not In The Right Relationship
By Bob Alaburda

When it’s head versus heart, nobody wins.

Relationships are hard work. That's what they always tell us, right? But they never tell you what "work" is, and how much is reasonable before it's just a bad relationship. )Seems like a pretty important piece of information to leave out.)

When your relationship hits a rough patch, it makes you wonder if this is one of those moments you're supposed to "work" through, or a sign that it was never going to work in the first place.

When happy couples look back through the history of their relationship, there are inevitably obstacles along the way that could have ended them. Basically: How do you tell the difference between an obstacle and a red flag?

It's actually pretty easy, even if it isn't all that obvious: Just listen to your heart.

I know, I know. You're saying, "You just replaced one vague platitude with another!" The difference is, I'm going to explain mine.

The difference between an obstacle and a red flag is whether you feel that person is worth whatever struggle you're going through. And your heart will tell you in an instant.

The moment you have to "will" your way through a relationship challenge is the moment you should begin examining if you really want to be in that relationship. That's because when you have someone who's truly worth it, whether or not you're going to fight through that struggle is never truly in question.

It might suck for awhile, but you never doubt that it's worth it. You don't have to force it. In other words, your brain doesn't have to convince your heart.

Now reverse the hypothetical situation. You really want to fight for your relationship, but your head is telling you it's not the smart thing to do. Maybe it goes against relationship advice you've read or your friends are telling you to cut and run.

The truth is, the heart wants what it wants, and it doesn't always make logical sense.

So if you find yourself in this situation in the future, unsure if a relationship challenge is a temporary obstacle or a sign you should break it off, just ask yourself one question: Is it my head or my heart that isn't in it?

Let your heart lead the way.

http://www.yourtango.com/2015283183/if-you-have-to-force-it-youre-not-in-right-relationship
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SelenaKyle
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Posted by jeane
i read this the other day. it helped me with this question. thought it might be of interest to someone.

If You Have To Force It, You're Not In The Right Relationship
By Bob Alaburda

When it’s head versus heart, nobody wins.

Relationships are hard work. That's what they always tell us, right? But they never tell you what "work" is, and how much is reasonable before it's just a bad relationship. )Seems like a pretty important piece of information to leave out.)

When your relationship hits a rough patch, it makes you wonder if this is one of those moments you're supposed to "work" through, or a sign that it was never going to work in the first place.

When happy couples look back through the history of their relationship, there are inevitably obstacles along the way that could have ended them. Basically: How do you tell the difference between an obstacle and a red flag?

It's actually pretty easy, even if it isn't all that obvious: Just listen to your heart.

I know, I know. You're saying, "You just replaced one vague platitude with another!" The difference is, I'm going to explain mine.

The difference between an obstacle and a red flag is whether you feel that person is worth whatever struggle you're going through. And your heart will tell you in an instant.

The moment you have to "will" your way through a relationship challenge is the moment you should begin examining if you really want to be in that relationship. That's because when you have someone who's truly worth it, whether or not you're going to fight through that struggle is never truly in question.

It might suck for awhile, but you never doubt that it's worth it. You don't have to force it. In other words, your brain doesn't have to convince your heart.

Now reverse the hypothetical situation. You really want to fight for your relationship, but your head is telling you it's not the smart thing to do. Maybe it goes against relationship advice you've read or your friends are telling you to cut and run.

The truth is, the heart wants what it wants, and it doesn't always make logical sense.

So if you find yourself in this situation in the future, unsure if a relationship challenge is a temporary obstacle or a sign you should break it off, just ask yourself one question: Is it my head or my heart that isn't in it?

Let your heart lead the way.

http://www.yourtango.com/2015283183/if-you-have-to-force-it-youre-not-in-right-relationship
good stuff. thank you.

I tend to let me head talk me out of stuff.
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jeane
@jeane
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Posted by justagirl
Posted by jeane
i read this the other day. it helped me with this question. thought it might be of interest to someone.

If You Have To Force It, You're Not In The Right Relationship
By Bob Alaburda

When it’s head versus heart, nobody wins.

Relationships are hard work. That's what they always tell us, right? But they never tell you what "work" is, and how much is reasonable before it's just a bad relationship. )Seems like a pretty important piece of information to leave out.)

When your relationship hits a rough patch, it makes you wonder if this is one of those moments you're supposed to "work" through, or a sign that it was never going to work in the first place.

When happy couples look back through the history of their relationship, there are inevitably obstacles along the way that could have ended them. Basically: How do you tell the difference between an obstacle and a red flag?

It's actually pretty easy, even if it isn't all that obvious: Just listen to your heart.

I know, I know. You're saying, "You just replaced one vague platitude with another!" The difference is, I'm going to explain mine.

The difference between an obstacle and a red flag is whether you feel that person is worth whatever struggle you're going through. And your heart will tell you in an instant.

The moment you have to "will" your way through a relationship challenge is the moment you should begin examining if you really want to be in that relationship. That's because when you have someone who's truly worth it, whether or not you're going to fight through that struggle is never truly in question.

It might suck for awhile, but you never doubt that it's worth it. You don't have to force it. In other words, your brain doesn't have to convince your heart.

Now reverse the hypothetical situation. You really want to fight for your relationship, but your head is telling you it's not the smart thing to do. Maybe it goes against relationship advice you've read or your friends are telling you to cut and run.

The truth is, the heart wants what it wants, and it doesn't always make logical sense.

So if you find yourself in this situation in the future, unsure if a relationship challenge is a temporary obstacle or a sign you should break it off, just ask yourself one question: Is it my head or my heart that isn't in it?

Let your heart lead the way.

http://www.yourtango.com/2015283183/if-you-have-to-force-it-youre-not-in-right-relationship
good stuff. thank you.

I tend to let me head talk me out of stuff.
click to expand

on those occasions, was your heart in it?
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SelenaKyle
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@jeane

Yes, but i can talk myself out of stuff, if that makes sense.

I can convince myself that it's safer, easier, better, to ignore what my heart is telling me. I do not do this so much as i have gotten older, but when i was younger.. oh boy.

I am specifically speaking of relationships and taking the next step with them.

When it comes to if something doesn't feel right.. instinct, etc i do listen to that - usually.
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jeane
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Posted by justagirl
@jeane

Yes, but i can talk myself out of stuff, if that makes sense.

I can convince myself that it's safer, easier, better, to ignore what my heart is telling me. I do not do this so much as i have gotten older, but when i was younger.. oh boy.

I am specifically speaking of relationships and taking the next step with them.

When it comes to if something doesn't feel right.. instinct, etc i do listen to that - usually.
interesting. i have a talent of doing that myself usually - until this last relationship.

on those times that your head won, was it the right decision?
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sultrykitty
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Love doesn't conquer, it perseveres. Anyone in a long relationship will have doubts along the way if they're in it for the right reasons. If you don't then someone is due for a reality check.

The question is are the doubts worthy of consideration or are they based on fantasies of "what if".

I agree for the most part what jeane is saying. The heart wants what the heart wants, and in a long term relationship love is the final decider. But love has to be defined and separated from dependency, insecurity, convenience and comfort. Love in thoae contexts can lead someone to st8in a toxic relationship that can persevere but the individuals can't grow.
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SelenaKyle
@justagirl
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Posted by jeane
Posted by justagirl
@jeane

Yes, but i can talk myself out of stuff, if that makes sense.

I can convince myself that it's safer, easier, better, to ignore what my heart is telling me. I do not do this so much as i have gotten older, but when i was younger.. oh boy.

I am specifically speaking of relationships and taking the next step with them.

When it comes to if something doesn't feel right.. instinct, etc i do listen to that - usually.
interesting. i have a talent of doing that myself usually - until this last relationship.

on those times that your head won, was it the right decision?
click to expand

i honestly do not know. Since i talked myself out of things, it ended. No idea what the outcome would have been if i have followed my heart.

Let me think about this some more and get back to you.
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GFY
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Posted by jeane
is there a mountain too high? a valley too low? a river too wide?

is there a point where two people who truly love each other should face reality and accept they are beaten?

or is no obstacle too big to overcome where love is concerned?
When you think about that charming, good looking, erudite person next you/facing you in their 20s, can you see yourself in 50 years:

1. Wiping/cleaning up their feces because they're incontinent
2..Wheeling them around / assisting them because through something not of their own, they have become handicapped
3..Sticking with them when the economy has you living out of a car
4. Willing to sacrifice your well being for theirs
That's when love truly is it. Not "being in love", but your concern for that other person exceeds concern for yourself.

Not as easy as it looks.
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jeane
@jeane
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Posted by loveydovex3
Posted by jeane
is there a mountain too high? a valley too low? a river too wide?

is there a point where two people who truly love each other should face reality and accept they are beaten?

or is no obstacle too big to overcome where love is concerned?
If two people really love each other, I feel it's unlikely that they'll never be together.
click to expand

being (getting) together is easy, it's the staying together that's hard i find.
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jeane
@jeane
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Posted by loveydovex3
Say that I love you and you love me. If the feeling is so strong and so mutual, despite how harshly we hurt each other, we won't think to leave each other. If we do think it, we won't act on it. If we do act on it, how much did we really love each other to begin with?

Plus, it's one thing if the feeling is mutual. Personally, I was rejected for three years, running my foolish errand into finding a deeper meaning to stay with the Taurus I mentioned earlier. I doubt if he felt the same way we'd be in this mess, mind you. But, yeah... Now you have more insight onto whether or not love really conquers all.

There will always be skepticism and people who see this version of love I'm describing to you as a naive one, but personally they're missing out. I'll stick to my foolish errands though because it was the most meaningful thing I ever did and made me wiser / much more capable of loving deeply. Love shouldn't be skin-deep that people give up the way they do in my generation. Sucks.
you're talking about feelings and i am talking about life. no one lives in a bubble and life takes a strain on relationships. my initial question is that at what point do you let life's obstacles get in the way of a great relationship?

some people will say i would wait my entire life for the person i love. others may say, you know what? it's been great but this is too hard, it is too much, there are plenty of fish in the sea and although we have the love, there is too much against us, i'm out.

i've solved my own dilemma but i am still interested in what people have to say and where each person draws the line. there is no wrong answer.

(and just as an aside, you seem to have taken real issue with my term "fool's errand". i wasn't calling you foolish. i didn't call your relationship foolish. i didn't say that trying to keep a relationship was foolish. i've never suggested you were naive. i was saying that you're looking for things i think don't exist. you disagreed and said there was a hidden meaning. i capitulated.

in case you weren't aware, here is a definition

a fool's errand
noun
1.a fruitless undertaking)
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jeane
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Posted by loveydovex3
I'm talking about life, too. It's not living in a bubble. The drawing line is when feelings are no longer mutual; how else can people work around those issues if they no longer feel their passion/compassion for each other is worth life's tribulations.

And nope. Don't have an issue with anything. Nothing personal.
and if the feelings are still there and very mutual? if there has been no real hurt? if the two parties still want to be together?

does love conquer all? or are there things that even love cannot overcome?
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P-Angel
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Posted by tiziani
Posted by CancerOnTheCusp
Posted by jeane
is there a mountain too high? a valley too low? a river too wide?

is there a point where two people who truly love each other should face reality and accept they are beaten?

or is no obstacle too big to overcome where love is concerned?
When you think about that charming, good looking, erudite person next you/facing you in their 20s, can you see yourself in 50 years:

1. Wiping/cleaning up their feces because they're incontinent
2..Wheeling them around / assisting them because through something not of their own, they have become handicapped
3..Sticking with them when the economy has you living out of a car
4. Willing to sacrifice your well being for theirs
That's when love truly is it. Not "being in love", but your concern for that other person exceeds concern for yourself.

Not as easy as it looks.
That's the only thing I'd disagree on. I've never really understood equating love to sacrifice. They're two different things to me. Both inevitable along the way but very distinct.
click to expand

I don't get how you rationalize this.

Are you insinuating that love is unconditional?

Because in order to provide your partner with love they need/want, that may not be what you want/need ... so are you saying that you would keep to yourself what YOU need and to hell with them because you wouldn't sacrifice yourself FOR this love?

It doesn't make sense. To not have sacrifice for love means you get everything your way, all the time.
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jeane
@jeane
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Posted by loveydovex3
Posted by jeane
Posted by loveydovex3
I'm talking about life, too. It's not living in a bubble. The drawing line is when feelings are no longer mutual; how else can people work around those issues if they no longer feel their passion/compassion for each other is worth life's tribulations.

And nope. Don't have an issue with anything. Nothing personal.
and if the feelings are still there and very mutual? if there has been no real hurt? if the two parties still want to be together?

does love conquer all? or are there things that even love cannot overcome?
if the feelings are still there and very mutual, if there has been no real hurt and if the two parties do still want to be together then yes love will conquer... but what I'm saying is love should conquer all despite those tribulations... wasn't that your question? I don't think anything should stop someone who loves someone else from being with them, except if the person receiving the love absolutely does not want it from that person. then it's mere obsession, I think...
click to expand

no, the question wasn't should it conquer but does it conquer.
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jeane
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Posted by Sugarfoot
No I don't find this true at all. We can choose who we are going to love. Look at all the people who are in arranged marriages. Typically they say that even though they didn't even know their spouse when they got married, with time they came to love them. They were placed together because of practical aspects they had in common.

I also don't agree the love is the best thing that ever happens to people. Love has put me into some reallydumb situations that got me all fucked up.
so can you choose to not be in love?
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jeane
@jeane
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Posted by Sugarfoot
Posted by Magenta_Azure
No.

Stay grounded in reality always. See things for what they really are, not what you want them to be. If you've tried to make something work and it didn't, try a little harder. If it still doesn't work, accept what you cannot change. Reflect on the memories, the emotion, the joy, the sorrow, the growth. Appreciate and cherish all that you've learned and walk away a better person.

Let every ouce of hope you have teach you more and more about your emotional capacity as a human being. Never get stuck in learning. Remember to keep moving.
I agree with this totally. I've seen what happens when two people who love each other try to get by only on that. Love isn't enough. It doesn't stand up to the hard realities of life. Love is too fleeting for that. It's better to accept the facts, accept your love for the other person, but keep it moving if the important factors don't line up. What good is loving somebody when you can't even enjoy life with them because being together is too hard.
click to expand

i don't know sf. to me, love is not fleeting. when things get hard in my relationship, it doesn't make me love my partner less. that love is constant regardless of what is happening.
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jeane
@jeane
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Posted by Sugarfoot
Posted by jeane
Posted by Sugarfoot
No I don't find this true at all. We can choose who we are going to love. Look at all the people who are in arranged marriages. Typically they say that even though they didn't even know their spouse when they got married, with time they came to love them. They were placed together because of practical aspects they had in common.

I also don't agree the love is the best thing that ever happens to people. Love has put me into some reallydumb situations that got me all fucked up.
so can you choose to not be in love?
No I don't think you can make yourself fall out of love like turning off a light switch. I think loving someone comes with time and falling out of love also comes with time.
click to expand

perhaps. i know my grandparents were together for 40 years and hated each other every minute. at no point was there love, just convenience.