Where is Common Sense? (Page 4)

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rockyroadicecream
@rockyroadicecream
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These parents are why there are some really stupid warnings on things that make you pause.

Remember, when you see some of the obvious warnings of whatever it is you're using/doing, that's because SOMEONE out there was so fucking stupid, that they HAD to include such obvious information.

In this case, "no swimming" wasn't clear for some scary reason. "Stay the fuck away or you'll die" should probably replace existing signage.

But I'm sure, even then, someone will misinterpret that and point fingers when shit goes wrong. We live in a very enabling, lack of accountability based society. You can basically do whatever the fuck you want and still not be responsible for any negative outcomes, which is fucking sad.
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MrFirebird
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Posted by LibraLovesHim
How was the child able to get into the water in the first place. The park or whomever built it has a responsibility to protect its children. Insane that its the second enclosed wild animal attack on a child within the space of a month. The risk is there when you enclose animals in an insecure environment or encroach on their natural habitat I suppose.
The children don't belong to the park.
That's a misunderstanding.
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StingTailedLibra
@LibraLovesHim
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Posted by MrFirebird
Posted by LibraLovesHim
How was the child able to get into the water in the first place. The park or whomever built it has a responsibility to protect its children. Insane that its the second enclosed wild animal attack on a child within the space of a month. The risk is there when you enclose animals in an insecure environment or encroach on their natural habitat I suppose.
The children don't belong to the park.
That's a misunderstanding.
click to expand

Sorry, I dont mean (its) children as in literal. I mean as guests, as a country, etc children should be protected by adults, esp if we are the ones exposing them to potential dangers like wild animals.
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MrFirebird
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Posted by LibraLovesHim
Posted by MrFirebird
Posted by LibraLovesHim
How was the child able to get into the water in the first place. The park or whomever built it has a responsibility to protect its children. Insane that its the second enclosed wild animal attack on a child within the space of a month. The risk is there when you enclose animals in an insecure environment or encroach on their natural habitat I suppose.
The children don't belong to the park.
That's a misunderstanding.
Sorry, I dont mean (its) children as in literal. I mean as guests, as a country, etc children should be protected by adults, esp if we are the ones exposing them to potential dangers like wild animals.
click to expand

I am more concerned about the wild politicians than I am wild animals.
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FirstDecanTaurianWoman0428
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Posted by blackphase
Bottom line..

This child already paid for these peoples stupidity.. isn't that enough?

Why should all these Gators be tortured for abiding by their natural instinct while these parents are given sympathy for acting by theirs? Which is clearly driven by stupidity.

And maybe they aren't stupid for allowing their child to swim in the water.. Surely they didn't expect there to be gators nearby, but it's definitely NOT the gators fault. We do not respect the wildlife or seem to know how to share the earth.. we just think it's all fkn ours.

This is no different then if I went for a walk in the woods with my dog and a bear attacked and killed my dog. I wouldn't be out to seek revenge on the bear, that's a risk you take by walking in the woods. I would be the one to blame for putting him in harms way. Unforeseeable things happen all of the time, but the wildlife is not at fault for simply acting on their natural instincts on their own planet.
Oh I respect it at a safe distance for sure. Beautiful yet dangerous...My brother said there was 5 gators in that water and got they're lives taken away too.
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truecap
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Posted by rockyroadicecream
These parents are why there are some really stupid warnings on things that make you pause.

Remember, when you see some of the obvious warnings of whatever it is you're using/doing, that's because SOMEONE out there was so fucking stupid, that they HAD to include such obvious information.

.
Like the warning about putting a plastic bag over your head because you could suffocate?
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tcta
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Posted by truecap
Posted by rockyroadicecream
These parents are why there are some really stupid warnings on things that make you pause.

Remember, when you see some of the obvious warnings of whatever it is you're using/doing, that's because SOMEONE out there was so fucking stupid, that they HAD to include such obvious information.

.
Like the warning about putting a plastic bag over your head because you could suffocate?
click to expand

ya know, I can see both sides of this stupid tragedy - heard that the hotel had complaints that there should be a fence etc. and did not act - so how about a sign to cover their ass which is what so many do "just in case" - but not they did not - and this is part of "Disneyland" ? how strange but true and a child is gone from us ... the legality of the situation is that the parents no matter what - now have a lawsuit on their hands and they will win and yet again, we all pay dearly for these things ...

back after Sept 11th happened, my ex-husband and I were in the airport and the signs there were so ridiculous for security and what you could not take on the plane ... no meat cleavers, no chain saws, no blow torches, the list was endless and we laughed hysterically and almost got taken away ourselves for carrying on -
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P-Angel
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I can't copy the pic from cnn .. but, here's the link

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/15/us/alligator-attacks-child-disney-florida/


about half way down, you will see a pic of what the actual water looks like. There are 4 cops standing there, with another man in a blue shirt, and you can see where the struggle left a mark on the beach.

I have no clue what phony pics someone put up here ... but, this is what the water really looks like.


It looks like marsh .... murky, shit growing out of it.

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truecap
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Posted by P-Angel

I can't copy the pic from cnn .. but, here's the link

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/15/us/alligator-attacks-child-disney-florida/


about half way down, you will see a pic of what the actual water looks like. There are 4 cops standing there, with another man in a blue shirt, and you can see where the struggle left a mark on the beach.

I have no clue what phony pics someone put up here ... but, this is what the water really looks like.


It looks like marsh .... murky, shit growing out of it.
Image Not Found

Looks pretty murky from this angle.
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truecap
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Posted by Finbuff
Yeah, I know, but the beach is alluring - I mean look at that, if it's hot, some dumb kid will still walk in there. This is so awful for the parents. If you read that story posted above, the parents and others tried to pry the jaws open but couldn't. I probably would have wrestled the damn thing to keep it out of the water.
Talk about a nightmare. Disney is so fucked on this one - they will lose millions without a trial even. They will settle.
I can not even imagine the horror of the parents and the other people that were there.
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FirstDecanTaurianWoman0428
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Posted by cheekyfaerie
Posted by truecap
Posted by P-Angel

I can't copy the pic from cnn .. but, here's the link

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/15/us/alligator-attacks-child-disney-florida/


about half way down, you will see a pic of what the actual water looks like. There are 4 cops standing there, with another man in a blue shirt, and you can see where the struggle left a mark on the beach.

I have no clue what phony pics someone put up here ... but, this is what the water really looks like.


It looks like marsh .... murky, shit growing out of it.
Image Not Found

Looks pretty murky from this angle.
It's lake water. It is what it is. No body of water is safe down there. Hell, my mom gets snakes in her pool, but at least it's clear and you can see. No way in hell I'd be around that resort water at night.
click to expand

Just hell no way different pics. And there were 5 and supposedly they checked and didn't find one until this accident. That is a deep and wide one. And they are going to keep killing until they find the one. That could have been anyone just going to swim at your OWN risk. Thankfully there was people there though it could have been an incident no one would ever know either.
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fugu
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Why does there even NEED to be signs? Do parents generally let their kids go into random bodies of water anywhere? unless it's an actual swimming pool or a lake that is known for swimming, YOU shouldn't be mucking around in random bodies of water, much less letting your toddlers do so.

Do you have any idea what pollutants, parasites, dangerous critters, chemicals could be in there? There could be leeches in there too. So even not knowing Florida has alligators is no excuse.

God help these ppl if they ever travelled abroad. In some parts of the world, splashing about in random lagoons is how you pick up guinea worm. Google it.
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fugu
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Posted by cheekyfaerie
Posted by Finbuff
I saw a picture of this supposed, "lagoon" and heard it discussed on the radio this A.M. This area had white sand like a beach, without wild plants or other greenery that would have suggested it was a swamp. I've changed my mind and think the resort is totally liable for not having signs posted about alligators, IF they had seen them in the area and knew they were there.
The water's still brackish tho. Everywhere you go in FL, there are alligator signs or swim at your own risk signs. You're right, their signs will mention the threat of gators from here on out, but it was more than implied before. The fact it's a Disney resort provides the illusion of safety, but it's still a body of water in Florida.

But I grew up in the South so my opinion is probably tainted. We're naturally wary because we know our native predators. Maybe I shouldn't expect someone from Nebraska or another country to be as aware.
click to expand

I'm from fuckin Boston, and this is common sense to me.
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tcta
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Posted by cheekyfaerie
Posted by truecap
Posted by P-Angel

I can't copy the pic from cnn .. but, here's the link

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/15/us/alligator-attacks-child-disney-florida/


about half way down, you will see a pic of what the actual water looks like. There are 4 cops standing there, with another man in a blue shirt, and you can see where the struggle left a mark on the beach.

I have no clue what phony pics someone put up here ... but, this is what the water really looks like.


It looks like marsh .... murky, shit growing out of it.
Image Not Found

Looks pretty murky from this angle.
It's lake water. It is what it is. No body of water is safe down there. Hell, my mom gets snakes in her pool, but at least it's clear and you can see. No way in hell I'd be around that resort water at night.
click to expand

I know, why would they put this nice sandy beach next to the feeding trough? and no signs - WTF?
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Bsmurray
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Ok, my credentials are as follows: I am a law student and I have completed and passed a course called Torts, where negligence is a legal claim under this subject. A lawsuit against Disney Co. would fall under the claim of negligence. To make a case for negligence, the parents would have to prove that Disney owed them a duty of care, and that duty was breached.

The law says, under premises liability, a business owes a visitor a duty to use reasonable care to prevent harm. The parents are known as invitees, meaning, they were on the company's property for business purposes. A business owes an invitee a heightened duty of care, such as inspecting the premises for unknown or hidden dangers, because they are ultimately the ones profiting from the invitees' presence.

In my opinion, a company such as Disney has breached their duty of reasonable care in this case because they know the following things: 1) small children visit this resort year round, actually every day, 2) there are larger, predatory alligators in the lake, 3) there are no barriers between the lake and the premises, 4) there is history of alligators attacking people in Florida.

Did Disney take any precaution measures to avoid the obvious risk of an alligator attack on a small child? No.

Fencing off populated areas to avoid access to the lake? No, in fact, access to the lake was encouraged because of the beach movie night/firework show.

How about at least posting a warning sign? Yes to no swimming, but no to warning of alligator danger and their presence in the lake.

Therefore, in my opinion, Disney has breached their duty of care towards the parents.
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Bsmurray
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However, Disney does have a defense, known as contributory negligence. If the boy's death was due in whole or in part to the parents failure to exercise reasonable care, the parents are contributorily negligent. The jury has the duty to assign the percentage of fault the parents are under for the boy's death. To determine the parents standard, the jury must weigh what the parents did, and what:

1. A reasonable person would have done in the same situation, of similar age, facilities, intelligence, and experience.

I think the parents were from another state, Nebraska? If so, there might not be alligators wherever they live, and they could argue on this point to show a reasonable Nebraska native should not be aware of an alligator attacking their child in a lagoon...

However, Disney will counter by saying a reasonable person should know that alligators are everywhere in Florida, and would not allow their small child to be in a lagoon, at night, when they are most active...

Arguments can be made for both sides.

I think Disney is stupid for not taking more care in protecting their visitors from their alligator infested lagoon.

I also think the parents should know that allowing their small child to play in a Florida lagoon, at night, is very risky.
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tcta
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Posted by LittleStar
Posted by ElleDuMonde
what is the point of these sites going up showing pictures of kids in the 'same spot'?

we have come to the point in society where absolutely nobody will take accountability for their own actions.

"Let's deflect blame so the parents don't have to feel bad!"

bullbutter.

like Quantum said earlier.....this was a parenting fail.

....and like Monty said as well....if we showed a bunch of kids jumping off bridges......

Just because Marcy Mini Van Mom let's her Jumping Johnny play outside in the street when the streetlights go out.....does that mean you will as well?

Stop being Kardashian parents, FFS.

besides that, these pictures that are being shared are all during the day. This happened at night.....gators are nocturnal and go out at night to find food.
You don't get the point. There is no one to blame for this kid's death. The alligator might not have been there. It was the wrong place and the wrong time. There isn't any point to bashing the parents.

It's a resort. People expect it to be safe because they are going there to relax.

Disney knew of a danger and didn't make people aware and no matter how the child died or even if he hadn't, they should have signs up.
click to expand

well that is one of the big missing points of going on a vacation - people think oh I'm going to just go out and have fun and nevermind paying attention to what sort of dangers can befall one because I'm on vacation - ha, went to Costa Rico - loved it but we had an earthquake, landslide, sunami and volcanic eruption in the week we were there - witnessed it all first hand - and we were aware that these things could happen and took precaution - now I'm sure no one can cover all knowledge of all potential dangers, I'm just saying that people can't just be totally oblivious just because "they" are on vacation. they still have the responsibility to look out for themselves as well as the rest of the family.
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tcta
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Again, I'm pretty sure that a sign saying alligator infested water would be a deterrent. But then Disney would get questioned about whether or not the resort was safe. Disney chose not to have those precautions out there for a reason.

I'm not saying Disney is to blame anymore than the parents, but they have a responsibility to let people know of the dangers no matter what.



I believe fault lies on both sides - Disney doesn't want to tarnish their beauty and image with signage about "Watch out for Gators" - but then again if they didn't want to put signs up then they should have paid for their waters to be gator free so that their visitors could relax and enjoy themselves and not have to be on the watch for a predator that will kill them and eat them.
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truecap
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Posted by LittleStar
The fact that Disney had a movie night in an area that was known to have alligators seems irresponsible. I doubt the parents would have been out there with their kids if that hadn't been the case.

It was an accident. And people need something to blame tragedies on. The truth is things happen at random sometimes and while hundreds of kids swam there and came away just fine, this time it wasn't like that.

I don't see the point of blaming parents. The dad was obviously close enough to see it happen and dive after the alligator and actually try to get the boy back. If they had really been negligent, I doubt he would have been able to move so quickly.
I agree. It was an accident.
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truecap
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Posted by LittleStar
Posted by ElleDuMonde
Posted by LittleStar
Posted by ElleDuMonde
what is the point of these sites going up showing pictures of kids in the 'same spot'?

we have come to the point in society where absolutely nobody will take accountability for their own actions.

"Let's deflect blame so the parents don't have to feel bad!"

bullbutter.

like Quantum said earlier.....this was a parenting fail.

....and like Monty said as well....if we showed a bunch of kids jumping off bridges......

Just because Marcy Mini Van Mom let's her Jumping Johnny play outside in the street when the streetlights go out.....does that mean you will as well?

Stop being Kardashian parents, FFS.

besides that, these pictures that are being shared are all during the day. This happened at night.....gators are nocturnal and go out at night to find food.
You don't get the point. There is no one to blame for this kid's death. The alligator might not have been there. It was the wrong place and the wrong time. There isn't any point to bashing the parents.

It's a resort. People expect it to be safe because they are going there to relax.

Disney knew of a danger and didn't make people aware and no matter how the child died or even if he hadn't, they should have signs up.
so, if I let a two year old play in the street and he gets ran over by a car.....it's not anyone's fault?

there weren't any cars driving on that street when I let him out there.....and there aren't any signs posted that there are cars that are going to be driving on that street.

This is a child. A child that is defenseless in this world and is dependent upon the adults in his vicinity to protect him.

This was the parent's fault. I don't care if saying that isn't politically correct.
click to expand

I'm saying that it wasn't the parent's fault that an alligator came and killed the boy.

The boy could have drowned and then the parents would have been at fault, because it was a direct cause.

The car scenario doesn't work the same, because roads exist for traffic.

I don't really care about arguing for the sake of political correctness. I'm saying children can die and this wasn't exactly neglectful. It was just breaking the rules. I'm sure if there had been a sign saying "Alligators swim in these waters" the parents would have been less likely to let their kid in the water. Since they were literally feet away watching their son wa
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truecap
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Posted by LittleStar
Posted by truecap
Posted by LittleStar
Posted by truecap
Posted by Impulsv
I'm sorry but if ur not from Florida u might not know alligator are in beaches! N around highly populated areas vs swamps.
But if you camped out in the Northwest, you'd be aware of grizzly bears, wouldn't you?
Black.
—
Black bears are much more common.
click to expand

Oh! Okay. I wasn't sure what you meant.

A bear is a bear to me. Grizzlies and black bears can both be dangerous.
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truecap
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Posted by LittleStar
Posted by ElleDuMonde
Posted by LittleStar
roads exist for traffic. .
and swamps exist for wildlife that lives in swamps.
Not if that's where a human decides to put a resort. Obviously.

Alligators live in swamps because it's the climate they need, roads are built for a purpose to be convenient. Swamps don't exist for alligators.


And this particular "swamp" is a man made lagoon. FYI.

click to expand

A man made lagoon with flow ways to larger water sources.
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MrFirebird
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Posted by P-Angel

I can't copy the pic from cnn .. but, here's the link

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/15/us/alligator-attacks-child-disney-florida/


about half way down, you will see a pic of what the actual water looks like. There are 4 cops standing there, with another man in a blue shirt, and you can see where the struggle left a mark on the beach.

I have no clue what phony pics someone put up here ... but, this is what the water really looks like.


It looks like marsh .... murky, shit growing out of it.
Here is a link that follows up on this story.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-disney-alligator-history-20160615-story.html

I used to deliver loads down into Florida. Gators do manage to find their way onto the interstates, let alone state highways and lesser roads, city streets
and public/private property.


The reality is that this is a case where man has chosen to live among the wild. When the animals don't give a rip about man's laws, then
man has to make a decision, either eradicate the population or accept what comes.

IF Disney is responsible for the death of this child, then, it stands to reason that the State of Florida would also be responsible for
deaths and injuries due to alligator attacks elsewhere.

I am pretty sure that the parents had to know the inherent risks of alligators. IF they didn't, it goes to show how naive, if not stupid, people can truly be.

IF anything, I'd think that Disney will eventually add more, possibly larger in your face warning signs about the gators (possibly snakes) in the lakes, along with no swimming and no wading signs. These signs should not only be posted along the lakes, but any and all paths where gators and snakes have been spotted. Supplementing the warnings, there should be some "what and what not to do" instructions pertaining to encounters with gators and snakes.

Hotel rooms should have the same standard warning and information in placard form on the doors of each room (along the the fire escape instruction placards).


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iCloud9
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Posted by tcta


Again, I'm pretty sure that a sign saying alligator infested water would be a deterrent. But then Disney would get questioned about whether or not the resort was safe. Disney chose not to have those precautions out there for a reason.

I'm not saying Disney is to blame anymore than the parents, but they have a responsibility to let people know of the dangers no matter what.
not only did they not have a gator sign, they have movie nights right there on the beach for family with small kids to enjoy. i'd question the motive and integrity in addition to negligence.
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tcta
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Posted by iCloud9
Posted by tcta


Again, I'm pretty sure that a sign saying alligator infested water would be a deterrent. But then Disney would get questioned about whether or not the resort was safe. Disney chose not to have those precautions out there for a reason.

I'm not saying Disney is to blame anymore than the parents, but they have a responsibility to let people know of the dangers no matter what.
not only did they not have a gator sign, they have movie nights right there on the beach for family with small kids to enjoy. i'd question the motive and integrity in addition to negligence.
click to expand

I know, people could have been watching the movie and an alligator could have come out of the water and snatched just as well ...
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Bsmurray
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Posted by Finbuff
@Bsmurray - I took several semesters of Business Law as well, and am well aware of tort law and all that. You and I both know (maybe not) this will boil down to jury selection where defense attorneys will be VERY discretionary in finding an uninformed, sympathetic jury. This jury will most likely have no training or education in tort law, nor will they know the difference between that and criminal law. This will be an entirely emotion based trial, which is what defense attorneys thrive on. Disney will NEVER take the chance of this going to trial. Not even a remote possibility. This will be settled out of court for 5-10 million, Disney will be happy to pay and it will have zero impact on their quarterly financial statements.
Disney would be the defense in this case. I'm sure you mean the plaintiffs attorney will capitalize on the juror's emotions. I agree.

That is why, in my opinion, Disney will not let this case get to trial. They will meet with the parents and settle for an undisclosed amount.

What I want to know is what precautionary implementations and measures will Disney take in the wake of this event? Will they build a fence? Extract every alligator from the lake? Build a dam? Post more signs?

I really do assign part blame to the hotel for knowing alligators live in their lake and encouraging people to frolic and wade in their beach at night without any type of barrier between the guests and the dangerous natural wildlife that reside on their property.
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MrFirebird
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For what it's worth:
There are warning signs all over the place in EU, US and elsewhere.
A speed limit sign is still a warning sign, though it may not be yellow.
Exceed the posted speed limit and you risk getting a speeding ticket.
Exceed the posted speed limit excessively, you might go jail if you don't get yourself killed.

But sometimes, the warning signs are invisible.

Let's watch


You see, that motorcyclist was riding faster than safe conditions allowed for and the consequences are self-evident.
He flew like Superman after a few drinks.

Let's watch that again (you can slow it down, this time)



I should point out that Nebraska women eat corn huskers.
That may have played a role in this unfortunate tragedy but that doesn't change
the fact that Nebraska women eat corn huskers.
Unless the mother brought ample supply of corn huskers, she would have been
forced to something else, or starve down in Florida at the amusement park.

Alligators are no different. Like women, they have needs, too.
When they get hungry or curious, they will search for satisfaction
and become really wild when they don't get their way.



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Fleshpot
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Posted by lnana04
Posted by Quantum
Oh FFS do we really need signs differentiating between swimming and wading?

Are people really that stupid?

JFC stop the world I want off...
If you constantly see your guest splashing in the water then yes....they are that stupid, and Disney is even more retarded for allowing it to happen.
click to expand

They're not retarded, in fact, quite contrary. Their goal is to project an image of fun and (false) security to attract more families/money. Plastering giant ALLIGATOR signs around the resort is obviously not conducive to that. They're a giant corporation, do you really think our safety is their number ONE priority? Let's be real.

Disney is not going to take that extra precaution in ensuring safety if it means scaring away potential visitors. They will do everything they can to avoid it until they can't. Whether or not that's wrong is beside the point. The point is that while some additional signs would have been nice, it's naive and foolish to assume that everywhere you go, some strangers are going to be looking out for your best interests.

At least they had the decency to warn you not to swim in the water, bless their corporate hearts. The more sensible folks will know to translate "NO SWIMMING" = "UNSAFE WATER". Regardless, if you choose to ignore the rules, you're putting yourself at risk. No swimming doesn't mean risk of alligators, but it certainly doesn't mean OK to play in water either.
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P-Angel
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You young people have been so sheltered, and so protected, and stuffed under rocks your whole life .. to the point where you've stopped thinking.

You see something new and shiny and think you're the first one to have ever experienced it, so whatever your virgin perception is ... sets the standards.


You're so stupid, it isn't even funny.


Florida is known for Alligators you dumb asses. Disney built that lagoon on PURPOSE for the ALLIGATORS ... because experiencing the alligators is what you're going there for. It's irrelevant whether a lake is natural or man-made .. it's whole point in being there is so the guests can experience alligators.


It's just you, young ones, who are arguing the alligators being there are utter morons and have never had an independent thought in your life.


the Lagoon is there to encourage, and house the alligators ... you dumbasses.


That's what you go to Florida for. that is the thrill of it ... it's like going to Six Flags and there's no rollacoasters .. that's what you propose, because you're too stupid to think for yourself.


Look at the goddam hotel, look at all the attractions .... the alligators murky water surrounds the hotel because they WANT you to see the alligators.



Especially that littestar lady .. I've never encountered someone so stupid before. Even when she's looking at a map and can see with her own eyes .. the light never goes off in her head ...... I guess she needs a sign to tell her to think by herself now.