Actually, Japan is one the strictest countries in the world on gun ownership...and as a result had one of the lowest crime rates...including murder.
You want to stop the gun violence, Obama? (Page 4)
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Kurt gets it right, and does the right thing:
2 days ago
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this is funny.
Posted by beautifulsoul74I would refer you to "The Samurai, the Mountie, and the Cowboy" by David Kopel.
Actually, Japan is one the strictest countries in the world on gun ownership...and as a result had one of the lowest crime rates...including murder.
The bottom line is that everybody has the right and responsibility to not only defend themselves but those people who are unable to defend themselves as well (sick, young, elderly etc.), and in certain circumstances the only way to be succesfull is with the use of a firearm.
I do think though that semi automatic weapons should be adequate for this and therefore there is no need for fully automatic weapons but I am prepared to have my opinion changed on this with sound arguments.
I do think though that semi automatic weapons should be adequate for this and therefore there is no need for fully automatic weapons but I am prepared to have my opinion changed on this with sound arguments.
Posted by AkumoWhy Full Auto? Because the Government leaders are armed to the teeth.
The bottom line is that everybody has the right and responsibility to not only defend themselves but those people who are unable to defend themselves as well (sick, young, elderly etc.), and in certain circumstances the only way to be succesfull is with the use of a firearm.
I do think though that semi automatic weapons should be adequate for this and therefore there is no need for fully automatic weapons but I am prepared to have my opinion changed on this with sound arguments.
And leaders are corruptible.
The capacity for the government to commit tyranny against the American citizen is, itself, a threat
to National Security of the American Citizenry.
Waco illustrates why not only should the citizen have access to full auto weapons but also military hardware
that is often sold to foreign governments, via state militaries which are sworn to protect and defend not only
the US Constitution but also the citizens which reside within their respective boundries. State military are manned
by the citizens, commandeered by those who have served who will defend the state first and the nation second.
This way, no national leader can call upon a state to attack any citizen, nor yet, another state.
That is not the case, but ought to be the case.
Waco is a bad example. His little cult was based off of a religion I grew up in, and I know people who personally met David Koresh. He was a nut, and he was selling guns and drugs on the black market with his lovely little religion as the cover up for illegal activities. His isn't the only group like that, though.
Posted by MoonArtistWhile Koresh as warped as was, was somewhere, out there, we have to remember the children who were killed and the FBI knew it,
Waco is a bad example. His little cult was based off of a religion I grew up in, and I know people who personally met David Koresh. He was a nut, and he was selling guns and drugs on the black market with his lovely little religion as the cover up for illegal activities. His isn't the only group like that, though.
and THAT, right there, is a perfect example why I stand my ground on the 2nd Amendment and why I personally believe that the 2nd
Amendment extends to all arms.
Again, "to level the playing field" should there ever come a day when a government, any government, foreign and domestic, decides
to rain terror upon the people.
But again, the people need to raise their kids right and when they are grown, they will demand that others, who would think to do harm,
not to do so. As it stands, I think the US as a nation, on the whole are far too complacent about the issues that underlie the reasons
why a person might flip and fly over the kuckoo's nest.
Honestly, I'd like to try an experiment where liberals and conservatives, believers and non-believers, homosexuals and heterosexuals,
are all separated and put in their own separate little box state, based on their core common values and beliefs. Yup, round them all up
and let them figure out what works and doesn't work.
A kind of "Political Ultra-Social-Engineering Superbowl" - a "Battle of Civilizations". Like a game of football, watch and see which team
wins in the end.
Honestly, I envision that would be a "what if" experiment had the South successfully seceded from the North. How would things turn
out 150 years later. Not based on what we know, but on the time traveler's paradox of altering the course of history.
SIDE NOTE: I just wanna say I hate how my sentences get fouled up.
Carry on.
Carry on.
Posted by YourFavoriteDXPMemberFirearms, alone, (all by themselves) are not going to protect you from a government run by either corrupt or incompetent leaders.
Hell, the atrocities committed by the gad damn government are reason alone for people to have the fucking right to hold and maintain firearms in their homes.
The people have to come together in agreement and in cooperation for the greater good of the nation.
As it stands, the US is pretty much equally divided, based upon the political polls.
On the street, however, the numbers an entirely different matter and will reflect an entirely different reality, and probably not for the better.
Posted by YourFavoriteDXPMemberThey are not the only ones who want to re-educate. - it's been going on long before Bill Ayers was born.
"They also believed that their immediate responsibility would be to protect against what they called the counter-revolution. And they felt that this counter-revolution could best be guarded against by creating and establishing re-education centers in the southwest, where we would take all the people who needed to be re-educated into the new way of thinking and teach them... how things were going to be.
I asked, well, what's going to happen to those people that we can't re-educate; that are die-hard capitalists. And the reply was that they'd have to be eliminated. And when I pursued this further, they estimated that they would have to eliminate 25 million people in these re-education centers. And when I say eliminate, I mean kill. 25 million people.
I want you to imagine sitting in a room with 25 people, most of which have graduate degrees from Columbia and other well known educational centers, and hear them figuring out the logistics for the elimination of 25 million people. And they were dead serious." - Larry Grathwohl, partner of Bill Ayers and founding member of the Weather Underground
Trust me when I tell you, they want us disarmed so they can "re-educate" us effectively.
And those of us who dare defy them will be murdered by the millions.
During WWII FDR made a speech concerning the Nazis, with the following phrase,
"THEY (WHO) SEEK TO ESTABLISH SYSTEMS OF GOVERNMENT BASED ON THE REGIMENTATION OF ALL HUMAN BEINGS BY A HANDFUL OF INDIVIDUAL RULERS...CALL THIS A NEW ORDER. IT IS NOT NEW AND IT IS NOT ORDER."
Indeed, it wasn't new, nor was it order -
Novus Ordo Seclorum = New order of the ages (or, synonymously, "new world order")
That's on the US 1 dollar bill.
FDR knew that it wasn't new because he knew the plan that was already underway.
Hitler basically wanted to be the one to set it up. Same holds true for Russia.
They all know it's coming but are presently engaged in the power struggle, vying for the top.
Posted by MrFirebirdI'm not saying the situation couldn't have been handled better by the FBI, and those women and children were partly there by force, partly by choice, and completely by delusion. Koresh is just as much to blame, if not more, for those deaths, considering how he used and abused those women and children. He was never their protector! Is what the government did worse than what it did to the Natives? No, because with Koresh they were trying to take down a criminal who used women and children as his shield/hostages, while the Natives did nothing to deserve what was done to them other than be in the way of the greedy, the bigots, and the self righteous christian establishment.Posted by MoonArtistWhile Koresh as warped as was, was somewhere, out there, we have to remember the children who were killed and the FBI knew it,
Waco is a bad example. His little cult was based off of a religion I grew up in, and I know people who personally met David Koresh. He was a nut, and he was selling guns and drugs on the black market with his lovely little religion as the cover up for illegal activities. His isn't the only group like that, though.
and THAT, right there, is a perfect example why I stand my ground on the 2nd Amendment and why I personally believe that the 2nd
Amendment extends to all arms.
Again, "to level the playing field" should there ever come a day when a government, any government, foreign and domestic, decides
to rain terror upon the people.
But again, the people need to raise their kids right and when they are grown, they will demand that others, who would think to do harm,
not to do so. As it stands, I think the US as a nation, on the whole are far too complacent about the issues that underlie the reasons
why a person might flip and fly over the kuckoo's nest.
Honestly, I'd like to try an experiment where liberals and conservatives, believers and non-believers, homosexuals and heterosexuals,
are all separated and put in their own separate little box state, based on their core common values and beliefs. Yup, round them all up
and let them figure out what works and doesn't work.
A kind of "Political Ultra-Social-Engineering Superbowl" - a "Battle of Civilizations". Like a game of football, watch and see which team
wins in the end.
Honestly, I envision that would be a "what if" experiment had the South successfully seceded from the North. How would things turn
out 150 years later. Not based on what we know, but on the time traveler's paradox of altering the course of history.
click to expand
Too many groups that would cross over, so that would make too many sub groups. What if some of t
Too many groups that would cross over, so that would make too many sub groups. What if some of the gays are believers? What if some of the conservatives are gay? I have a better idea: humanity can wake up, FINALLY, and learn to stop being so fearful of differences. The best place to start might be to get rid of all religions.
Posted by YourFavoriteDXPMemberIt's GOD DAMN or GODDAMN.......jesus fucking CHRIST, learn to swear properly.
The FBI ruthlessly and sadistically used flammable gas, fire and explosives to kill EVERYONE inside the gad damn building. Women, children, men, everyone.
Posted by BlackNovaOh, then I'm beyond scary! I have no problem taking the lord's name in vain, but I'm not a christian, and I like gay people, and I'm probably a camp 2 Cancer.....except it's camp 52, goddammit!!......I can't get on board with Britney Spears, though. She was a great dancer but she really can't sing.Posted by MoonArtistLOLPosted by YourFavoriteDXPMemberIt's GOD DAMN or GODDAMN.......jesus fucking CHRIST, learn to swear properly.
The FBI ruthlessly and sadistically used flammable gas, fire and explosives to kill EVERYONE inside the gad damn building. Women, children, men, everyone.
He doesn't want to take the Lord's name in vain....he's a God fearing man...
he also fears gay peeps, Britney Spears music and anyone who advocates freedom and democracy without gun violence.
oh...and camp 2 Cancer peeps.click to expand
Posted by MoonArtistFirst of all, I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I am filthy dirty rotten sinner, likely chief among them, and... I believe Jesus is the only way to the Father.
Too many groups that would cross over, so that would make too many sub groups. What if some of the gays are believers? What if some of the conservatives are gay? I have a better idea: humanity can wake up, FINALLY, and learn to stop being so fearful of differences. The best place to start might be to get rid of all religions.
I know the world will disagree. Naturally, but I know what I know, believe what I believe and know that those who do not agree with me, do so at their own perilous.
Not because of what I say, but what the Almighty says. However, I do NOT consider myself a religious man.
Anyway, Because the of the two factions (political parties) and their constituents, I would see that they go to their respective test civilization "state".
I am pretty confident of the outcome. But honestly, would rather take it further with several civilization states, to test with greater accuracy.
Posted by MrFirebirdI have very different beliefs about spirituality, and I won't try to convince you that my beliefs are better, etc. I'll just say that I've studied religions of various kinds, have concluded some things about most that are less than flattering to them, and have rejected/outgrown/have no need for religions.Posted by MoonArtistFirst of all, I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I am filthy dirty rotten sinner, likely chief among them, and... I believe Jesus is the only way to the Father.
Too many groups that would cross over, so that would make too many sub groups. What if some of the gays are believers? What if some of the conservatives are gay? I have a better idea: humanity can wake up, FINALLY, and learn to stop being so fearful of differences. The best place to start might be to get rid of all religions.
I know the world will disagree. Naturally, but I know what I know, believe what I believe and know that those who do not agree with me, do so at their own perilous.
Not because of what I say, but what the Almighty says. However, I do NOT consider myself a religious man.
Anyway, Because the of the two factions (political parties) and their constituents, I would see that they go to their respective test civilization "state".
I am pretty confident of the outcome. But honestly, would rather take it further with several civilization states, to test with greater accuracy.click to expand
Posted by MoonArtistWell, like I said, I am not a religious man, so, you kinda miss the boat as far what my deeper thoughts are.Posted by MrFirebirdI have very different beliefs about spirituality, and I won't try to convince you that my beliefs are better, etc. I'll just say that I've studied religions of various kinds, have concluded some things about most that are less than flattering to them, and have rejected/outgrown/have no need for religions.Posted by MoonArtistFirst of all, I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I am filthy dirty rotten sinner, likely chief among them, and... I believe Jesus is the only way to the Father.
Too many groups that would cross over, so that would make too many sub groups. What if some of the gays are believers? What if some of the conservatives are gay? I have a better idea: humanity can wake up, FINALLY, and learn to stop being so fearful of differences. The best place to start might be to get rid of all religions.
I know the world will disagree. Naturally, but I know what I know, believe what I believe and know that those who do not agree with me, do so at their own perilous.
Not because of what I say, but what the Almighty says. However, I do NOT consider myself a religious man.
Anyway, Because the of the two factions (political parties) and their constituents, I would see that they go to their respective test civilization "state".
I am pretty confident of the outcome. But honestly, would rather take it further with several civilization states, to test with greater accuracy.click to expand
Sadly, far too many do. Primarily because they shut me out. That's ok, truckers are just deliverers passing through.
Posted by MrFirebirdYou consider yourself a follower of christ, so that makes you a christian, even if you're not the type who goes to church all the time. Christianity is a religion, so you're religious, even if you're not a hard core practitioner. I didn't miss the point. My own point is I don't believe in a savior, jesus/mohammed or any other, I don't identify with any religious groups, and my beliefs would be considered blasphemous (concerning the things christians hold as holy).Posted by MoonArtistWell, like I said, I am not a religious man, so, you kinda miss the boat as far what my deeper thoughts are.Posted by MrFirebirdI have very different beliefs about spirituality, and I won't try to convince you that my beliefs are better, etc. I'll just say that I've studied religions of various kinds, have concluded some things about most that are less than flattering to them, and have rejected/outgrown/have no need for religions.Posted by MoonArtistFirst of all, I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I am filthy dirty rotten sinner, likely chief among them, and... I believe Jesus is the only way to the Father.
Too many groups that would cross over, so that would make too many sub groups. What if some of the gays are believers? What if some of the conservatives are gay? I have a better idea: humanity can wake up, FINALLY, and learn to stop being so fearful of differences. The best place to start might be to get rid of all religions.
I know the world will disagree. Naturally, but I know what I know, believe what I believe and know that those who do not agree with me, do so at their own perilous.
Not because of what I say, but what the Almighty says. However, I do NOT consider myself a religious man.
Anyway, Because the of the two factions (political parties) and their constituents, I would see that they go to their respective test civilization "state".
I am pretty confident of the outcome. But honestly, would rather take it further with several civilization states, to test with greater accuracy.
Sadly, far too many do. Primarily because they shut me out. That's ok, truckers are just deliverers passing through.
click to expand
Posted by MoonArtistNot my brand. Never said I was a Christian. I said that I believe.Posted by MrFirebirdYou consider yourself a follower of christ, so that makes you a christian, even if you're not the type who goes to church all the time. Christianity is a religion, so you're religious, even if you're not a hard core practitioner. I didn't miss the point. My own point is I don't believe in a savior, jesus/mohammed or any other, I don't identify with any religious groups, and my beliefs would be considered blasphemous (concerning the things christians hold as holy).Posted by MoonArtistWell, like I said, I am not a religious man, so, you kinda miss the boat as far what my deeper thoughts are.Posted by MrFirebirdI have very different beliefs about spirituality, and I won't try to convince you that my beliefs are better, etc. I'll just say that I've studied religions of various kinds, have concluded some things about most that are less than flattering to them, and have rejected/outgrown/have no need for religions.Posted by MoonArtistFirst of all, I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I am filthy dirty rotten sinner, likely chief among them, and... I believe Jesus is the only way to the Father.
Too many groups that would cross over, so that would make too many sub groups. What if some of the gays are believers? What if some of the conservatives are gay? I have a better idea: humanity can wake up, FINALLY, and learn to stop being so fearful of differences. The best place to start might be to get rid of all religions.
I know the world will disagree. Naturally, but I know what I know, believe what I believe and know that those who do not agree with me, do so at their own perilous.
Not because of what I say, but what the Almighty says. However, I do NOT consider myself a religious man.
Anyway, Because the of the two factions (political parties) and their constituents, I would see that they go to their respective test civilization "state".
I am pretty confident of the outcome. But honestly, would rather take it further with several civilization states, to test with greater accuracy.
Sadly, far too many do. Primarily because they shut me out. That's ok, truckers are just deliverers passing through.
click to expand
To demonstrate, Are your parents your religion? Or your children?
Posted by MrFirebirdPosted by MoonArtistNot my brand. Never said I was a Christian. I said that I believe.Posted by MrFirebirdYou consider yourself a follower of christ, so that makes you a christian, even if you're not the type who goes to church all the time. Christianity is a religion, so you're religious, even if you're not a hard core practitioner. I didn't miss the point. My own point is I don't believe in a savior, jesus/mohammed or any other, I don't identify with any religious groups, and my beliefs would be considered blasphemous (concerning the things christians hold as holy).Posted by MoonArtistWell, like I said, I am not a religious man, so, you kinda miss the boat as far what my deeper thoughts are.Posted by MrFirebirdI have very different beliefs about spirituality, and I won't try to convince you that my beliefs are better, etc. I'll just say that I've studied religions of various kinds, have concluded some things about most that are less than flattering to them, and have rejected/outgrown/have no need for religions.Posted by MoonArtistFirst of all, I believe in Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I am filthy dirty rotten sinner, likely chief among them, and... I believe Jesus is the only way to the Father.
Too many groups that would cross over, so that would make too many sub groups. What if some of the gays are believers? What if some of the conservatives are gay? I have a better idea: humanity can wake up, FINALLY, and learn to stop being so fearful of differences. The best place to start might be to get rid of all religions.
I know the world will disagree. Naturally, but I know what I know, believe what I believe and know that those who do not agree with me, do so at their own perilous.
Not because of what I say, but what the Almighty says. However, I do NOT consider myself a religious man.
Anyway, Because the of the two factions (political parties) and their constituents, I would see that they go to their respective test civilization "state".
I am pretty confident of the outcome. But honestly, would rather take it further with several civilization states, to test with greater accuracy.
Sadly, far too many do. Primarily because they shut me out. That's ok, truckers are just deliverers passing through.
click to expand
To demonstrate, Are your parents your r
o believe in christ is to be a christian, and there's hundreds of denominations in christianity, including Catholicism.
I don't have a religion, and neither do my parents. Everyone in my family left the church I grew up in. My brother identifies as christian, and my dad might, a little, but the rest of us do not. My children are too young to really know what they are, so they're being raised in a christian setting via my ex, and a not-christian setting with me. My way with them is to be open and honest about what I believe, and why, but to encourage them to see what others believe, too, from all religions and non-religious stand points so they can make their own decision when they're grown up.
I don't have a religion, and neither do my parents. Everyone in my family left the church I grew up in. My brother identifies as christian, and my dad might, a little, but the rest of us do not. My children are too young to really know what they are, so they're being raised in a christian setting via my ex, and a not-christian setting with me. My way with them is to be open and honest about what I believe, and why, but to encourage them to see what others believe, too, from all religions and non-religious stand points so they can make their own decision when they're grown up.
Posted by MoonArtistYou misunderstood. I didn't ask if they were religious.
o believe in christ is to be a christian, and there's hundreds of denominations in christianity, including Catholicism.
I don't have a religion, and neither do my parents. Everyone in my family left the church I grew up in. My brother identifies as christian, and my dad might, a little, but the rest of us do not. My children are too young to really know what they are, so they're being raised in a christian setting via my ex, and a not-christian setting with me. My way with them is to be open and honest about what I believe, and why, but to encourage them to see what others believe, too, from all religions and non-religious stand points so they can make their own decision when they're grown up.
What I am asking is - Are your parents, or your children your religion?
It's a simple yes or no question.
Posted by MrFirebirdI don't have a religion, so that's a No.Posted by MoonArtistYou misunderstood. I didn't ask if they were religious.
o believe in christ is to be a christian, and there's hundreds of denominations in christianity, including Catholicism.
I don't have a religion, and neither do my parents. Everyone in my family left the church I grew up in. My brother identifies as christian, and my dad might, a little, but the rest of us do not. My children are too young to really know what they are, so they're being raised in a christian setting via my ex, and a not-christian setting with me. My way with them is to be open and honest about what I believe, and why, but to encourage them to see what others believe, too, from all religions and non-religious stand points so they can make their own decision when they're grown up.
What I am asking is - Are your parents, or your children your religion?
It's a simple yes or no question.
click to expand
Posted by MoonArtistWhat is it, then, that you would consider you have with your parents and your children?Posted by MrFirebirdI don't have a religion, so that's a No.Posted by MoonArtistYou misunderstood. I didn't ask if they were religious.
o believe in christ is to be a christian, and there's hundreds of denominations in christianity, including Catholicism.
I don't have a religion, and neither do my parents. Everyone in my family left the church I grew up in. My brother identifies as christian, and my dad might, a little, but the rest of us do not. My children are too young to really know what they are, so they're being raised in a christian setting via my ex, and a not-christian setting with me. My way with them is to be open and honest about what I believe, and why, but to encourage them to see what others believe, too, from all religions and non-religious stand points so they can make their own decision when they're grown up.
What I am asking is - Are your parents, or your children your religion?
It's a simple yes or no question.
click to expand
Posted by MrFirebirdA relationship and a connection.Posted by MoonArtistWhat is it, then, that you would consider you have with your parents and your children?Posted by MrFirebirdI don't have a religion, so that's a No.Posted by MoonArtistYou misunderstood. I didn't ask if they were religious.
o believe in christ is to be a christian, and there's hundreds of denominations in christianity, including Catholicism.
I don't have a religion, and neither do my parents. Everyone in my family left the church I grew up in. My brother identifies as christian, and my dad might, a little, but the rest of us do not. My children are too young to really know what they are, so they're being raised in a christian setting via my ex, and a not-christian setting with me. My way with them is to be open and honest about what I believe, and why, but to encourage them to see what others believe, too, from all religions and non-religious stand points so they can make their own decision when they're grown up.
What I am asking is - Are your parents, or your children your religion?
It's a simple yes or no question.
click to expand
Posted by MoonArtistThat is what I AM is all about.Posted by MrFirebirdA relationship and a connection.Posted by MoonArtistWhat is it, then, that you would consider you have with your parents and your children?Posted by MrFirebirdI don't have a religion, so that's a No.Posted by MoonArtistYou misunderstood. I didn't ask if they were religious.
o believe in christ is to be a christian, and there's hundreds of denominations in christianity, including Catholicism.
I don't have a religion, and neither do my parents. Everyone in my family left the church I grew up in. My brother identifies as christian, and my dad might, a little, but the rest of us do not. My children are too young to really know what they are, so they're being raised in a christian setting via my ex, and a not-christian setting with me. My way with them is to be open and honest about what I believe, and why, but to encourage them to see what others believe, too, from all religions and non-religious stand points so they can make their own decision when they're grown up.
What I am asking is - Are your parents, or your children your religion?
It's a simple yes or no question.
click to expand
But "religions" have fouled up that understanding.
The truth was turned into a lie, and the message of reconciled relationship with the Creator, made into a (sometimes) hateful religion
Do you understand, what I am saying?
Because that is what happened.
Posted by MrFirebirdI completely agree with you there! Thus, I have no religion. They're all man-made organizations that have been corrupted into nothing more than a way to control the masses.Posted by MoonArtistThat is what I AM is all about.Posted by MrFirebirdA relationship and a connection.Posted by MoonArtistWhat is it, then, that you would consider you have with your parents and your children?Posted by MrFirebirdI don't have a religion, so that's a No.Posted by MoonArtistYou misunderstood. I didn't ask if they were religious.
o believe in christ is to be a christian, and there's hundreds of denominations in christianity, including Catholicism.
I don't have a religion, and neither do my parents. Everyone in my family left the church I grew up in. My brother identifies as christian, and my dad might, a little, but the rest of us do not. My children are too young to really know what they are, so they're being raised in a christian setting via my ex, and a not-christian setting with me. My way with them is to be open and honest about what I believe, and why, but to encourage them to see what others believe, too, from all religions and non-religious stand points so they can make their own decision when they're grown up.
What I am asking is - Are your parents, or your children your religion?
It's a simple yes or no question.
But "religions" have fouled up that understanding.
The truth was turned into a lie, and the message of reconciled relationship with the Creator, made into a (sometimes) hateful religion
Do you understand, what I am saying?
Because that is what happened.click to expand
Posted by YourFavoriteDXPMember
I note that the gun grabbing losers around here have no counter argument worth reading, so I will again reaffirm my original statement.
You useless POS idiots would last about 10 seconds in a life or death situation.
When Mohammed or whoever storms into the mall or train (as was the case in France) and begins shooting an AK-47...
You will be pissing yourselves, and praying to Satan (or whoever you losers pray to) that a real man will stand up....
Pull out a gun, and kill the motherfucker....
And then you will be free to go change your diapers and STFU with your crying since you are free to live another day of your clearly miserable lives.
Posted by YourFavoriteDXPMemberSo far I haven't seen you use an ounce of logic, so I'm not sure you would understand it if it smacked you. Also, your bigotry is atrocious, and disgusting. That's about all I have to offer to your rant.So you are saying that the FBI and ATF firebombing a building with 82 Americans inside was Koresh's doing?
Koresh is just as much to blame, if not more, for those deaths,
If that is true, then technically the Vietnamese who were likewise murdered in My Lai got their just desserts too, didn't they? It was THEIR fault that they were shot to death.
How about Chris Dorner? He sure got what he deserved too, didn't he? It was his fault that the police used flammable gas and explosives on a building that he was hiding in.
Your logic is atrocious, and is the same disgusting kind that was used by the ATF when they murdered 82 people in Waco.click to expand
Posted by YourFavoriteDXPMemberKoresh was a criminal! He was selling illegal firearms on the black market, as well as drugs! He was also holding people there as prisoners. He's not the first criminal to get taken down by the government. He wasn't jesus christ, no matter what he claimed, and he wasn't even close to being a good guy. He went down, not because he defied the government on some righteous mission from god, he went down because he was a nutjob criminal who thought he was above the law. Not sure why you're defending a criminal. Maybe you need to reassess yourself and do some soul searching, unless you're ok with illegal criminal activities.
What?
You are arguing that Koresh and the Branch Dividians had it coming.
You are thereby arguing that ANYONE at odds with the federal government on ANYTHING has it coming, especially if the person is in stark defiance to the government.
You really need to do some soul searching, MoonArtist.
Not quite sure what your problem is, but you really need to take some time out and reassess yourself.
FBI and ATF had a search warrant, and instead of allowing them to search for drugs and illegal weapons, the Branch Davidians started a gun fight that sparked the siege. It was also found that those on the compound started the fire, not the FBI (probably to hide evidence of their criminal activities). The fire got out of hand, and or David Koresh ordered those people murdered. It later came to light from members that didn't die there that there were sexual assaults by Koresh and others on the women, and some of the children. Does this sound like the type of person who has nothing to hide and is in full cooperation of an investigation? No! I think it's disgusting to put him on a pedestal as if he's some sort of righteous, patriotic martyr when all he really was was a psychotic criminal who preyed on others.
And a psycho who claimed he was jesus christ while he dealed drugs, guns, and had his own little sex slave industry going on, or those who supported him are a credible source of information for what happened? Politicians vs a psycho.....pretty sure none of them are telling the entire truth! Keep believing the sexual predator/criminal is the righteous patriot martyr, though. Maybe you look up to that kind of person and aspire to follow his lead. After all, What Would Jesus Do? (since Koresh claimed he was jesus)
Posted by Arielle83
Yeah Bowie tribute and what I think of some weird dxp losers
Oddly, the song and the choreography, is based on paranoia and anxiety.
His early years involved cocaine and what US touring he experienced wasn't really the clear picture
he would have had, had it not been for his cocaine addiction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bowie
https://www.thefix.com/content/david-bowie-drugs-warning91172
http://www.drugs.com/illicit/cocaine.html
Forming one's opinion of a country, based on a famous drug addict's perspective, isn't the
smartest thing to do.
The question remains as to why the authorities did not detain Koresh when he was out and about town.
They could have, and done so legally. They also knew that a face down at the compound was potentially volatile.
I do recall that renewed funding was coming up for the ATF, who already had some in Congress questioning whether or not that funding should be renewed. The whole thing was screwed up all around.
It's unclear who really started the fire, IMHO. The whole compound was bulldozed before there could be an independent investigation.
One thing that did result from that time is that there have been several not so widely publicized events since where the Feds have shown up armed in cases of government overreach but have been very careful not to escalate the situation. There is a reason for that. One recent event had government snipers stand down because it was made known to them that while they had their scopes trained on civlians, friends of the civilians had their scopes trained on the government agents.
Not saying I think I think we should be having situations like this, but it is what it is. Until human beings become flawless, better to remind the powers that be that they cannot wield their power indiscriminately just because they can.
They could have, and done so legally. They also knew that a face down at the compound was potentially volatile.
I do recall that renewed funding was coming up for the ATF, who already had some in Congress questioning whether or not that funding should be renewed. The whole thing was screwed up all around.
It's unclear who really started the fire, IMHO. The whole compound was bulldozed before there could be an independent investigation.
One thing that did result from that time is that there have been several not so widely publicized events since where the Feds have shown up armed in cases of government overreach but have been very careful not to escalate the situation. There is a reason for that. One recent event had government snipers stand down because it was made known to them that while they had their scopes trained on civlians, friends of the civilians had their scopes trained on the government agents.
Not saying I think I think we should be having situations like this, but it is what it is. Until human beings become flawless, better to remind the powers that be that they cannot wield their power indiscriminately just because they can.
Posted by Arielle83Hi Facetious,Posted by MrFirebirdI'm facetious.Posted by Arielle83
Yeah Bowie tribute and what I think of some weird dxp losers
Oddly, the song and the choreography, is based on paranoia and anxiety.
His early years involved cocaine and what US touring he experienced wasn't really the clear picture
he would have had, had it not been for his cocaine addiction.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bowie
https://www.thefix.com/content/david-bowie-drugs-warning91172
http://www.drugs.com/illicit/cocaine.html
Forming one's opinion of a country, based on a famous drug addict's perspective, isn't the
smartest thing to do.
click to expand
That's a nice name.
Nice to meet you.
🙂
Posted by MoonArtistIt's still tyranny.
FBI and ATF had a search warrant, and instead of allowing them to search for drugs and illegal weapons, the Branch Davidians started a gun fight that sparked the siege. It was also found that those on the compound started the fire, not the FBI (probably to hide evidence of their criminal activities). The fire got out of hand, and or David Koresh ordered those people murdered. It later came to light from members that didn't die there that there were sexual assaults by Koresh and others on the women, and some of the children. Does this sound like the type of person who has nothing to hide and is in full cooperation of an investigation? No! I think it's disgusting to put him on a pedestal as if he's some sort of righteous, patriotic martyr when all he really was was a psychotic criminal who preyed on others.
Posted by MrFirebirdIt's a grey area, like most things about government.Posted by MoonArtistIt's still tyranny.
FBI and ATF had a search warrant, and instead of allowing them to search for drugs and illegal weapons, the Branch Davidians started a gun fight that sparked the siege. It was also found that those on the compound started the fire, not the FBI (probably to hide evidence of their criminal activities). The fire got out of hand, and or David Koresh ordered those people murdered. It later came to light from members that didn't die there that there were sexual assaults by Koresh and others on the women, and some of the children. Does this sound like the type of person who has nothing to hide and is in full cooperation of an investigation? No! I think it's disgusting to put him on a pedestal as if he's some sort of righteous, patriotic martyr when all he really was was a psychotic criminal who preyed on others.
click to expand
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