eric11
@eric11
16 Years500+ Posts
Comments: 0 · Posts: 600 · Topics: 17
Sensitive Topic (I Hope You Can Handle It) (Page 2)
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Ms. P:
"Firstly, to say that a woman who has an abortion doesn't care about her fetus, is completely untrue."
Eric11:
I guess if a woman cares. The question is how much does she care for this tiny thing? It can't be whole lot if she is willing to let it get torn to pieces.
If she does care then let the proof be in the pudding. That's the bottome line for me anyways.
Ms. P:
"Most women go through severe depression over having an abortion."
Eric11:
Perhaps another good reason not to have an abortion. If woman had this sentiment before having an abortion do you think they would go through with it? It's hard to say, but I think no. It's too bad the feeling of regret happens after and not before the act of abortion when it actually matters.
Ms. P:
"Secondly, post partum depression is caused by a significant change in a womans hormones during pregnancy. These women don't kill their kids simply because they don't love their child, or because the child is unwanted. The issue is much deeper than that, but even if for arguments sake, we assumed those women were pure evil and cold, for you to even compare them to women who have had abortions, is totally ridiculous."
Eric11:
Okay let me ask you this? Is a woman guilty of murder in this country even if she has post partum? As far as I know the hormones that cause depression does not blind people from right and wrong beacause many woman with Post Partum do NOT kill their children.
Why you do you think it is intrinsically more evil to think of women who kill their babies after birth than those who kill them before birth? What about new borns? What is the difference between a newborn and a baby in the third trimester? Virtually nothing except for one fact. One is outside the womb and the other is not. It's basically geography. IMO it's totally hypocritial to think that a woman who kills her child after birth is comitting more evil than a woman who does it before.
Once again this is only my opinion.
"Firstly, to say that a woman who has an abortion doesn't care about her fetus, is completely untrue."
Eric11:
I guess if a woman cares. The question is how much does she care for this tiny thing? It can't be whole lot if she is willing to let it get torn to pieces.
If she does care then let the proof be in the pudding. That's the bottome line for me anyways.
Ms. P:
"Most women go through severe depression over having an abortion."
Eric11:
Perhaps another good reason not to have an abortion. If woman had this sentiment before having an abortion do you think they would go through with it? It's hard to say, but I think no. It's too bad the feeling of regret happens after and not before the act of abortion when it actually matters.
Ms. P:
"Secondly, post partum depression is caused by a significant change in a womans hormones during pregnancy. These women don't kill their kids simply because they don't love their child, or because the child is unwanted. The issue is much deeper than that, but even if for arguments sake, we assumed those women were pure evil and cold, for you to even compare them to women who have had abortions, is totally ridiculous."
Eric11:
Okay let me ask you this? Is a woman guilty of murder in this country even if she has post partum? As far as I know the hormones that cause depression does not blind people from right and wrong beacause many woman with Post Partum do NOT kill their children.
Why you do you think it is intrinsically more evil to think of women who kill their babies after birth than those who kill them before birth? What about new borns? What is the difference between a newborn and a baby in the third trimester? Virtually nothing except for one fact. One is outside the womb and the other is not. It's basically geography. IMO it's totally hypocritial to think that a woman who kills her child after birth is comitting more evil than a woman who does it before.
Once again this is only my opinion.
P Angel"
"Men shouldn't be allowed to speak on behalf of women, because they have no clue."
Eric11:
Technically, pro life people are speaking on behalf of the fetus not on behalf of the woman who abort them, so obviously it is you that doesn't have a clue about this position so burn on you chicky poo!
P Angel:
A nineteen year-old dude who casually fucks a girl, leaves her pregnant, where she has to devote the rest of her life fending for a child born from a "fuck" ...... has no right to talk about sentimental feelings the woman now must possess, while he runs off in the distant, not having this same obligation in the provision of life.
Eric11:
Well, if we are not talking about the situation of rape which we are not, then let make something perfectly clear to you so that even your P brain can grasp. The act of consensual sex takes two. You should not engage in sex without accepting the risk that comes with it. STI's, STD's and you guess it PREGNANCY. If you do, you are either, niave or an idiot. Who knows maybe you are just a naive idiot.
the 19 year old "dude" who fucked a girl. If he did not rape her he obviously had her consent. And if this girl wasn't stupid which perhaps some are, she would have known how babies are concieved and tell the dude to wear a fucking condom or say no to sex. If she did not, I'm sorry I have no sympathy for her dilemma.
So lets for the sake of this discussion, he did wear a condom, and she got pregnant anyways. If she doesn't want the baby she has two choices. Either kill it or give it up for adoption. In regards to the guy if he doesn't want to take care of it then I say sterilize the fucker or force him to get a job and so he can start paying child support! Problem solved.
"Men shouldn't be allowed to speak on behalf of women, because they have no clue."
Eric11:
Technically, pro life people are speaking on behalf of the fetus not on behalf of the woman who abort them, so obviously it is you that doesn't have a clue about this position so burn on you chicky poo!
P Angel:
A nineteen year-old dude who casually fucks a girl, leaves her pregnant, where she has to devote the rest of her life fending for a child born from a "fuck" ...... has no right to talk about sentimental feelings the woman now must possess, while he runs off in the distant, not having this same obligation in the provision of life.
Eric11:
Well, if we are not talking about the situation of rape which we are not, then let make something perfectly clear to you so that even your P brain can grasp. The act of consensual sex takes two. You should not engage in sex without accepting the risk that comes with it. STI's, STD's and you guess it PREGNANCY. If you do, you are either, niave or an idiot. Who knows maybe you are just a naive idiot.
the 19 year old "dude" who fucked a girl. If he did not rape her he obviously had her consent. And if this girl wasn't stupid which perhaps some are, she would have known how babies are concieved and tell the dude to wear a fucking condom or say no to sex. If she did not, I'm sorry I have no sympathy for her dilemma.
So lets for the sake of this discussion, he did wear a condom, and she got pregnant anyways. If she doesn't want the baby she has two choices. Either kill it or give it up for adoption. In regards to the guy if he doesn't want to take care of it then I say sterilize the fucker or force him to get a job and so he can start paying child support! Problem solved.
P-Angel:
"I'd be willing to wager that a vast majority of these pregnancies happened because the dude convinced the girl he loved her, then bounced on her when she fell pregnant .... so, you can go fuck yourself Eric, when you think you have a right to speak of how a woman must regard the life of this child that the guy couldn't care a less about, this is why he left."
Eric11:
Oh poor baby. She was coersed into pregnancy by her minipulative boyfriend. Bad bad boyfriend. What a fucking shakespearean tragedy. God I am balling my eyes as I write this on the floor.
BTW many boys/men have done the right thing and stood by their women after impregnanting them, so from me to you, go fuck yourself right back bitch.
If you think you can have an intelligent discussion without getting too personal, because everyone else seems to be able to, then I will respect everything you have to see even if I disagree with it. If not, then I can't suffer fools.
"I'd be willing to wager that a vast majority of these pregnancies happened because the dude convinced the girl he loved her, then bounced on her when she fell pregnant .... so, you can go fuck yourself Eric, when you think you have a right to speak of how a woman must regard the life of this child that the guy couldn't care a less about, this is why he left."
Eric11:
Oh poor baby. She was coersed into pregnancy by her minipulative boyfriend. Bad bad boyfriend. What a fucking shakespearean tragedy. God I am balling my eyes as I write this on the floor.
BTW many boys/men have done the right thing and stood by their women after impregnanting them, so from me to you, go fuck yourself right back bitch.
If you think you can have an intelligent discussion without getting too personal, because everyone else seems to be able to, then I will respect everything you have to see even if I disagree with it. If not, then I can't suffer fools.
"P Angel"
"Men shouldn't be allowed to speak on behalf of women, because they have no clue."
Eric11:
Technically, pro life people are speaking on behalf of the fetus not on behalf of the woman who abort them, so obviously it is you that doesn't have a clue about this position so burn on you chicky poo!"
what a wanker, you turned out to be ... for it was obvious to everybody who can read that my quote above was in reference to you saying ...
"Eric: "A baby's life is destroyed for the sake of the lack sentimental feelings a woman has for this life."
... which is actually addressing you not having a right to speak for women in saying they lack feelings for thier babies life.
So, instead of actually addressing this, you take it out of context, just so you can tell me I am clueless .... that speaks volumes about you, and nothing to discredit me.
"Men shouldn't be allowed to speak on behalf of women, because they have no clue."
Eric11:
Technically, pro life people are speaking on behalf of the fetus not on behalf of the woman who abort them, so obviously it is you that doesn't have a clue about this position so burn on you chicky poo!"
what a wanker, you turned out to be ... for it was obvious to everybody who can read that my quote above was in reference to you saying ...
"Eric: "A baby's life is destroyed for the sake of the lack sentimental feelings a woman has for this life."
... which is actually addressing you not having a right to speak for women in saying they lack feelings for thier babies life.
So, instead of actually addressing this, you take it out of context, just so you can tell me I am clueless .... that speaks volumes about you, and nothing to discredit me.
Posted by No1delete2
P-Angel: Men shouldn't be allowed to speak on behalf of women, because they have no clue.
Bullshit. Any man who fathers a child - even from a casual fuck - should bear equal responsibility for his action. The current hypocritical standard is to put all the onus on the woman. Yes, it's her body, and her decision; but, we don't expect men to act like adults, and at least offer to assist the woman in her decision. Our modern / Western approach to the taking of a human life is way too clinical - regardless of one's religious views on this subject.
That quote of mine came from addressing Eric when he said that if a woman aborts her child then it means she lacks feelings for the life of the child .... and you as well as him take it out of context.
You may join him, then ..... it's not me that it discredits.
Eric: "she would have known how babies are concieved and tell the dude to wear a fucking condom or say no to sex. If she did not, I'm sorry I have no sympathy for her dilemma."
I think you should say more things like that, Eric ^^^^^^^^^^ .... you haven't quite made yourself out to be a total fool yet, though the above reference in insinuating that it's a woman's place to carry all responsibility pretty much sums up to me.
There's no doubt in my mind that you are the exact kind of man who would knock a woman up .... and leave her high and dry.
I think you should say more things like that, Eric ^^^^^^^^^^ .... you haven't quite made yourself out to be a total fool yet, though the above reference in insinuating that it's a woman's place to carry all responsibility pretty much sums up to me.
There's no doubt in my mind that you are the exact kind of man who would knock a woman up .... and leave her high and dry.
"then I will respect everything you have to see even if I disagree with it."
For some reason you must actually think that you deserve respect .... and you must also think that I care about who you respect.
You've made it perfectly clear to me .... a woman pregnant is her problem.
That pretty much makes you a wanker .. so why would anyone really care to respect you.
For some reason you must actually think that you deserve respect .... and you must also think that I care about who you respect.
You've made it perfectly clear to me .... a woman pregnant is her problem.
That pretty much makes you a wanker .. so why would anyone really care to respect you.
Let me say this again, for those who can't seem to understand ..... all women want babies with the man she loves ... ALL WOMEN.
We are born with the instinct to give birth FOR the man we love ..... there is no such thing as an unwanted pregnancy for a woman when she loves her man ... that is, until he doesn't want the pregnancy.
When he doesn't want her to be pregnant ... is when it becomes unwanted.
So, for 99.99999999999999% of every abortion out there ... it's because the MAN didn't want the baby.
:::: shakes head at stupid people, namely, Eric ::::::::
We are born with the instinct to give birth FOR the man we love ..... there is no such thing as an unwanted pregnancy for a woman when she loves her man ... that is, until he doesn't want the pregnancy.
When he doesn't want her to be pregnant ... is when it becomes unwanted.
So, for 99.99999999999999% of every abortion out there ... it's because the MAN didn't want the baby.
:::: shakes head at stupid people, namely, Eric ::::::::
P Angel:
"what a wanker, you turned out to be ... for it was obvious to everybody who can read that my quote above was in reference to you saying ..."
Eric11:
Coming from you no offence taken. 😉
P Angel:
"Eric: "A baby's life is destroyed for the sake of the lack sentimental feelings a woman has for this life."
... which is actually addressing you not having a right to speak for women in saying they lack feelings for thier babies life.
Eric11:
If you care for something then why destroy it? Sounds like an oxymoron to me.
P Angel:
So, instead of actually addressing this, you take it out of context, just so you can tell me I am clueless .... that speaks volumes about you, and nothing to discredit me.
Eric11:
So you say.
"what a wanker, you turned out to be ... for it was obvious to everybody who can read that my quote above was in reference to you saying ..."
Eric11:
Coming from you no offence taken. 😉
P Angel:
"Eric: "A baby's life is destroyed for the sake of the lack sentimental feelings a woman has for this life."
... which is actually addressing you not having a right to speak for women in saying they lack feelings for thier babies life.
Eric11:
If you care for something then why destroy it? Sounds like an oxymoron to me.
P Angel:
So, instead of actually addressing this, you take it out of context, just so you can tell me I am clueless .... that speaks volumes about you, and nothing to discredit me.
Eric11:
So you say.
P-Angel:
"There's no doubt in my mind that you are the exact kind of man who would knock a woman up .... and leave her high and dry."
Eric11:
Yawn. Lame even by your standards. An obvious ad hominin with no rationality or evidence to support it.
P-Angel
For some reason you must actually think that you deserve respect .... and you must also think that I care about who you respect.
Eric11:
Actually I don't think that but I personally don't see the point in being disrespectful, it isn't rational behavior. I choose to give people respect because that makes sense to me. So far you are choosing to get personal and I will oblige.
P-Angel
"You've made it perfectly clear to me .... a woman pregnant is her problem. That pretty much makes you a wanker .. so why would anyone really care to respect you."
Eric11:
It is her problem, but it's also the guys problem too. Infact it is both their problem. It certainly isn't any one elses problem. Go back and reread what I actually wrote.
P-Angel
"Let me say this again, for those who can't seem to understand ..... all women want babies with the man she loves ... ALL WOMEN."
Eric11
Then don't have sex with men you don't love because consenting to sex is consenting to the risk of getting pregnant. Sheesh.
P-Angel:
So, for 99.99999999999999% of every abortion out there ... it's because the MAN didn't want the baby.
Eric11
You really are from planet Neptune are you? Last time I checked man weren't the ones forcing the women to get abortions.
"There's no doubt in my mind that you are the exact kind of man who would knock a woman up .... and leave her high and dry."
Eric11:
Yawn. Lame even by your standards. An obvious ad hominin with no rationality or evidence to support it.
P-Angel
For some reason you must actually think that you deserve respect .... and you must also think that I care about who you respect.
Eric11:
Actually I don't think that but I personally don't see the point in being disrespectful, it isn't rational behavior. I choose to give people respect because that makes sense to me. So far you are choosing to get personal and I will oblige.
P-Angel
"You've made it perfectly clear to me .... a woman pregnant is her problem. That pretty much makes you a wanker .. so why would anyone really care to respect you."
Eric11:
It is her problem, but it's also the guys problem too. Infact it is both their problem. It certainly isn't any one elses problem. Go back and reread what I actually wrote.
P-Angel
"Let me say this again, for those who can't seem to understand ..... all women want babies with the man she loves ... ALL WOMEN."
Eric11
Then don't have sex with men you don't love because consenting to sex is consenting to the risk of getting pregnant. Sheesh.
P-Angel:
So, for 99.99999999999999% of every abortion out there ... it's because the MAN didn't want the baby.
Eric11
You really are from planet Neptune are you? Last time I checked man weren't the ones forcing the women to get abortions.
Im honestly not sure where i stand on the subject of Abortion !!
I can see both sides...
But I do know one thing....
Some People Prove A Damn Good Case For It !!!
I can see both sides...
But I do know one thing....
Some People Prove A Damn Good Case For It !!!
I was 8 mo pregnant and had no problems signing the pro-choice petition in the mall. It wasn't my choose (obviously), but whom am I do dictate what others do?! I don't have the right - nor do you - to tell people how to live their life and what to do with themselves. There are multiple reasons why women have abortions, should we really question those reasons? No, it's non of our business!
Why exactly would anyone care about a god when it comes to this ... if any gods exist.
Let's say there is one for this purpose.
Does he even care enough to intervene and prevent the murder? Nope.
People would say ... it's about choice what they do, and this is why this god doesn't intervene.
Choice?
wtf ——————
What a fucking hypocrisy.
Let's say there is one for this purpose.
Does he even care enough to intervene and prevent the murder? Nope.
People would say ... it's about choice what they do, and this is why this god doesn't intervene.
Choice?
wtf ——————
What a fucking hypocrisy.
Posted by No1delete2
cappy: So I am indeed Pro-Choice.
Which means: You are pro-abortion.
No, it means she supports the right to choose. Didnt say she was gonna choose abortion, just that she supports the womans right to choose it.
Posted by dogsbody
Im honestly not sure where i stand on the subject of Abortion !!
I can see both sides...
But I do know one thing....
Some People Prove A Damn Good Case For It !!!
LOL!! I know quite a few of those cases too!!
Posted by P-Angel
Let me say this again, for those who can't seem to understand ..... all women want babies with the man she loves ... ALL WOMEN.
We are born with the instinct to give birth FOR the man we love ..... there is no such thing as an unwanted pregnancy for a woman when she loves her man ... that is, until he doesn't want the pregnancy.
NOT TRUE!!!! Some women just DONT want children. It's a choice made by each individual based on their own wants and needs. I myself, do not possess that motherly instinct and at 38 years old, that hasnt changed. Im not saying it never will, but I was madly in love with my husband AND still didnt have the urge to bear a child. Nothing to do with my feelings for him... they were MY feelings and I OWN them.
I have to agree with you there LeoLady, I loved my ex-fiance to death, but I've NEVER wanted children; nor to get married. I've been this way since I was 10 years old, and it's never changed (hence the EX-fiance part). I have serious comittment issues! Needless to say, he and I met in college, and had I gotten pregnant, there is no way I could have had a child, and I loved him more than life itself. And it's not because my parents are divorced, because they aren't, they met in grade school, started dating in high school and she got "knocked up" w/me - forcing that ever popular "shot gun" marriage (which I have serious problems w/but that's a discussion for another day). I've never thought marriage was interesting nor exciting. The prince charming sweeping me off my feet - white picket fence - 2.5 kids and a dog, is just not the look for me. Obviously that's a great life for a lot of people, I just don't prescribe to it for me.
Right, but I'm not talking about women who dont' want children.
Let's be real here ....... there are no accidents in pregnancy. A woman knows full well that if his semen enters her vagina, then she risks getting pregnant, and if she allows this to happen, then it's an on purpose, not an accident.
A woman who doesn't want children and has reasoned this out .. isn't going to let this happen, and she will therefore never even end up pregnant.
A woman who does want to be inpregnated by the man .... has these on purposes, and then lays her destiny on the floor in front of the man as she tells him with hope shining in her eyes that he will be over-joyed with her, and hopeful that her trap has worked on him.
Let's be real here ....... there are no accidents in pregnancy. A woman knows full well that if his semen enters her vagina, then she risks getting pregnant, and if she allows this to happen, then it's an on purpose, not an accident.
A woman who doesn't want children and has reasoned this out .. isn't going to let this happen, and she will therefore never even end up pregnant.
A woman who does want to be inpregnated by the man .... has these on purposes, and then lays her destiny on the floor in front of the man as she tells him with hope shining in her eyes that he will be over-joyed with her, and hopeful that her trap has worked on him.
I guess a condom could break .. that is the only accident.
Being drunk and letting him fuck you without wrapping it up isn't an accident ....
Being drunk and letting him fuck you without wrapping it up isn't an accident ....
Posted by sb_cap
And men,
Unless you married every single woman you fucked, stop making it out like they are somehow evil for aborting their babies because they couldnt afford to have one.
You never intended to stay with them did you? Then you shouldn't have fucked them either.
Thank you.
I'd be willing to wager that every man out there (not boys) .... has fucked a woman and walked away at some point in time in their life. And this woman could have gotten pregnant for all they know .. and the man wouldn't know, would he? Because he walked away from her thinking she was a whore, for letting him fuck her, so why should he be concerned over what happens.
Disgusting, how men think they have any grounds in viewing a woman's character because a man knocked her up ...... 99% of the time, she loved him, and thought he loved her. He didn't, he just wanted a fuck her.
Men are pigs when it comes to this .... seriously.
And in times when they do get caught with their pants down around their ankles, they end up paying the child support ... but, that's only because they were caught, and not because they had any concern about the child.
Posted by USCTaurusGal
The prince charming sweeping me off my feet - white picket fence - 2.5 kids and a dog, is just not the look for me. Obviously that's a great life for a lot of people, I just don't prescribe to it for me.
Totally agree. I require a bit more of an untraditional existence. My ex-husband and I were very social people and frankly we were too busy for children and liked living that way.
Posted by P-Angel
Right, but I'm not talking about women who dont' want children.
Let's be real here ....... there are no accidents in pregnancy. A woman knows full well that if his semen enters her vagina, then she risks getting pregnant, and if she allows this to happen, then it's an on purpose, not an accident.
A woman who doesn't want children and has reasoned this out .. isn't going to let this happen, and she will therefore never even end up pregnant.
A woman who does want to be inpregnated by the man .... has these on purposes, and then lays her destiny on the floor in front of the man as she tells him with hope shining in her eyes that he will be over-joyed with her, and hopeful that her trap has worked on him.
Valid points. I will also add that even though I didnt want children and took necessary precautions to prevent it, accidents do happen and had I ended up pregnant while married, I wouldnt have considered aborting it. I was married and if was meant to happen I wouldve been fine with it and taken responsibilty without ever thinking twice about it.
What's intresting about this thread is that it shows most guys are retarded.
Posted by P-AngelPosted by sb_cap
And men,
Unless you married every single woman you fucked, stop making it out like they are somehow evil for aborting their babies because they couldnt afford to have one.
You never intended to stay with them did you? Then you shouldn't have fucked them either.
Thank you.
I'd be willing to wager that every man out there (not boys) .... has fucked a woman and walked away at some point in time in their life. And this woman could have gotten pregnant for all they know .. and the man wouldn't know, would he? Because he walked away from her thinking she was a whore, for letting him fuck her, so why should he be concerned over what happens.
Disgusting, how men think they have any grounds in viewing a woman's character because a man knocked her up ...... 99% of the time, she loved him, and thought he loved her. He didn't, he just wanted a fuck her.
Men are pigs when it comes to this .... seriously.
And in times when they do get caught with their pants down around their ankles, they end up paying the child support ... but, that's only because they were caught, and not because they had any concern about the child.click to expand
I think I have to agree with some of this. I know far too many women/teenage girls who have gotten pregnant and the "baby daddy" up and disappeared. Some had terminated the pregnancy, some kept the baby. For some who kept the baby, it turned out pretty well. Others, not so much.
Hey, if a man gets his girlfriend or some random girl on the streets pregnant and does not want her to terminate the pregnancy, then he should fight for her not to. BUT to make a judgment and condemn all other women on this decision, I think is over stepping the boundary. Plainly put, men do not have to carry the baby to term, birth the baby and (even) care for the baby. A man can up and leave whenever he so chooses. Which is what a lot of these young and (sometimes) old men are doing. So, it is really hard for me to listen or read about men making such strong judgment calls on women who have terminated a pregnancy. I am not saying that a man cannot have an opinion. However, I have heard such strong condemnation from men about this and that is what I cannot stand.
Posted by enfant_terrible
What's intresting about this thread is that it shows most guys are retarded.
Lol.
Posted by sb_cap
I don't know what it's like in the states but in Canada women have maternaty leave. This means the company pays for her home stay up to one year.
The only problem I see with your idea is that some women may try to take advantage of the system. How will it be regulated?
Another option I guess is that the girl can always give her baby up for adoption. No one is going to force her to carry it to adult hood.
I guess you can say I am pro life hoping to one day be pro choice. I think the debate needs more choices. The day this debate ends is when science has found a way to abort all babies alive.
Posted by enfant_terrible
What's intresting about this thread is that it shows most guys are retarded.
🙂 lol. Touche'
Natural 25 abortions is a humantistic issue it isn't a religious or a gender issue, even though alot of people on both sides perceive it as that.
If a man didn't want a pregnancy, and he killed the baby, found guilty he would go to jail. This is a very rare event but this is technically what would happen and it's called homicide.
Hence it isn't women that people are coming down on, for many pro lifers are actually women not men. It is the abortion itself. The reason why people perceive it as a gender issue because the fetus can't voice it's opinions. So the pro life camp does it on their behalf. We were all fetus's once and we are all glad to be alive. We feel that everyone should have that right.
BTW alot of men support pro choice. Infact look at this thread I am praticually the only guy here voicing a pro life stance. Most women here have said they wouldn't have an abortion but they would defend those who do. Basically what they are saying is they support the princple of abortion even if it is wrong for them.
Anywyas this discussion can go on forever and I think I said my piece and it's time to let others weigh in.
It's been a very interesting discussion and I have learned alot. :-)
If a man didn't want a pregnancy, and he killed the baby, found guilty he would go to jail. This is a very rare event but this is technically what would happen and it's called homicide.
Hence it isn't women that people are coming down on, for many pro lifers are actually women not men. It is the abortion itself. The reason why people perceive it as a gender issue because the fetus can't voice it's opinions. So the pro life camp does it on their behalf. We were all fetus's once and we are all glad to be alive. We feel that everyone should have that right.
BTW alot of men support pro choice. Infact look at this thread I am praticually the only guy here voicing a pro life stance. Most women here have said they wouldn't have an abortion but they would defend those who do. Basically what they are saying is they support the princple of abortion even if it is wrong for them.
Anywyas this discussion can go on forever and I think I said my piece and it's time to let others weigh in.
It's been a very interesting discussion and I have learned alot. :-)
Posted by sb_cap
Maternity leave?! Some people dont have health insurance. And do you know what the insurance for a pregnant lady is. They already charge women more because she "might" get pregnant. Not that she has. But that she "might".
That's too bad, because in Canada where abortions are still going on, all women can have maternaty leave. Canada has health care so they don't need to have inssurence.
"Hey, if a man gets his girlfriend or some random girl on the streets pregnant and does not want her to terminate the pregnancy, then he should fight for her not to. BUT to make a judgment and condemn all other women on this decision, I think is over stepping the boundary. Plainly put, men do not have to carry the baby to term, birth the baby and (even) care for the baby. A man can up and leave whenever he so chooses. Which is what a lot of these young and (sometimes) old men are doing. So, it is really hard for me to listen or read about men making such strong judgment calls on women who have terminated a pregnancy. I am not saying that a man cannot have an opinion. However, I have heard such strong condemnation from men about this and that is what I cannot stand. "
WORD! And, if I had money for everytime I've heard some guy complain about getting "fixed" because his wife asked him too, but he is "scared" and what if he wants more kids later.
I'm like DUDE, your wife has 1/2/4/6/7 (however many kids) she doesn't WANT anymore, and she is asking you to do ONE thing to prevent it that is supposed to be failproof (as we know nothing is except abstinence), and you don't even want to do that— WTF?
She has to carry, birth, feed and be the primary caretaker for at minimum the first 0-18 months, but you can't do one f*^ing thing to prevent more that she DOESN'T want to have. That pisses me off.
WORD! And, if I had money for everytime I've heard some guy complain about getting "fixed" because his wife asked him too, but he is "scared" and what if he wants more kids later.
I'm like DUDE, your wife has 1/2/4/6/7 (however many kids) she doesn't WANT anymore, and she is asking you to do ONE thing to prevent it that is supposed to be failproof (as we know nothing is except abstinence), and you don't even want to do that— WTF?
She has to carry, birth, feed and be the primary caretaker for at minimum the first 0-18 months, but you can't do one f*^ing thing to prevent more that she DOESN'T want to have. That pisses me off.
Posted by *Tasha
at the end of the day no one's belief is going to be swayed by the other. the opinions are too strong on both sides. pointless to debate
You are right Tasha. Absolutely right.
I'm gonna pull a Hypnotic1 now
*poof, I'm outta this thread*
*poof, I'm outta this thread*
Posted by sb_cap
Wear a lead ballon in your belly for nine months, go through hormonal changes for 9 months and then talk about saving the baby.
You make it sound like pregnancy is punishment. Hey if I wanted my child. I would! Infact I would wager most men who truly wanted to save their babies life from abortion would do that. Of course we would.
The men who wouldn't are the ones who support abortion. I think it was Natural who pointed out that if the father wanted to fight for his childs life and will take care of it for the next 18 years, he should have the right to save it from abortion.
Posted by sb_cap
Like I said, unless you have married every women you have fucked, you dont get to judge the woman. Since the men were never there to help them.
Why would I have to marry every woman I fuck? Is that even the issue of this discussion? No.
Do you think every time a woman gets fucked she becomes pregnant? No. And I don't need to marry a woman inorder to support the child. It's called child support and most fathers in canada have to pay it.
For you this debate is obviously about the woman, for me it's about the fetus.
Anways I said my piece now I need to get out of here too.
But, then again ... we do have to consider the whore, we have a few on here actually, who fuck men often .... just fuck.
What about them?
YOu know the kind of woman I refer to ..... she is the one slutting around, fucking every guy she can. What if she gets pregnant. Does the same rule apply? We have one of our very own right now in dxp is that is trying to fuck her professor, likely for a grade, now what if she gets pregnant?
Using her as an example ..........
She is doing everythign she can to get this guy to believe she is into him. she watches his every move, apparantly, because she posts about it in here and even analyzes how he responds/reacts to other students so she can use this to her benefit of manipulating him. Eventually he will cave and join her in her bed, and when he does, he will believe she is really into him since she will know so much about him. Then when she has what she wants from him ... she'll "swim" on to her next victim.
so what about those kinds of women if they get pregnant ..... should men have any responsibility?
I know a couple women like that ^^^ Fish, and they abort often.
maybe there should be a limit on abortions, and after that the woman has to get fixed. But, I guess that would really screw up human rights activists heads.
What about them?
YOu know the kind of woman I refer to ..... she is the one slutting around, fucking every guy she can. What if she gets pregnant. Does the same rule apply? We have one of our very own right now in dxp is that is trying to fuck her professor, likely for a grade, now what if she gets pregnant?
Using her as an example ..........
She is doing everythign she can to get this guy to believe she is into him. she watches his every move, apparantly, because she posts about it in here and even analyzes how he responds/reacts to other students so she can use this to her benefit of manipulating him. Eventually he will cave and join her in her bed, and when he does, he will believe she is really into him since she will know so much about him. Then when she has what she wants from him ... she'll "swim" on to her next victim.
so what about those kinds of women if they get pregnant ..... should men have any responsibility?
I know a couple women like that ^^^ Fish, and they abort often.
maybe there should be a limit on abortions, and after that the woman has to get fixed. But, I guess that would really screw up human rights activists heads.
Sb you make some interesting points but I do feel a bit like a broken record because all of your points I have already addressed before. Here I go again.
sb:
"Pregnancy is a punishment if you dont want the kid. Heck its a punishment even when you do. Physical and emotional changes take place in the woman.."
Eric11:
Have you been pregnant that you can speak from experience? FYI some woman actually enjoy pregnancy. Hence I guess it depends on the pregnancy and the woman. No two pregnancy's and women are exactly the same. For women who don't want the baby, I guess they can view it as punishment. But I think it is more psychological than physical. If she becomes really sick or that her life is an danger, then I think abortions are necessary.
IMO, I think working on the riggs for 18 years to support your family is punishment compared to pregnancy.
Sb:
"Even in the US women have been known to die during childbirth. Why would you risk that just because some government says that they need to keep the baby regardless of whether you want to or not?"
Eric11:
The risk of dying in child birth is the lowest it has ever been. Infact your risk of dying while getting an abortion and developing complications is just as likely as labour if not worst. Hence you're taking a risk either way. But the chance of you dying in either case is so small what difference does it make?
sb:
"Men dont carry that child for 9 months even if they wanted to save the baby."
Eric11:
First off, you don't need to carry a baby for the full nine months to give it a fighting chance at life. Infact a baby can live even after six months. Secondly compared to taking care of a child for 18 years or more, pregnancy is easier. Whether you will give men credit or not, MOST fathers take care of their children or at least provide the basic necessities of life. Of course you think otherwise but that's your perogative.
If the child cannot be taken care of either parents, give it up for adoption and give some one else that chance. There is no need to kill a baby for your own convience.
sb:
"Pregnancy is a punishment if you dont want the kid. Heck its a punishment even when you do. Physical and emotional changes take place in the woman.."
Eric11:
Have you been pregnant that you can speak from experience? FYI some woman actually enjoy pregnancy. Hence I guess it depends on the pregnancy and the woman. No two pregnancy's and women are exactly the same. For women who don't want the baby, I guess they can view it as punishment. But I think it is more psychological than physical. If she becomes really sick or that her life is an danger, then I think abortions are necessary.
IMO, I think working on the riggs for 18 years to support your family is punishment compared to pregnancy.
Sb:
"Even in the US women have been known to die during childbirth. Why would you risk that just because some government says that they need to keep the baby regardless of whether you want to or not?"
Eric11:
The risk of dying in child birth is the lowest it has ever been. Infact your risk of dying while getting an abortion and developing complications is just as likely as labour if not worst. Hence you're taking a risk either way. But the chance of you dying in either case is so small what difference does it make?
sb:
"Men dont carry that child for 9 months even if they wanted to save the baby."
Eric11:
First off, you don't need to carry a baby for the full nine months to give it a fighting chance at life. Infact a baby can live even after six months. Secondly compared to taking care of a child for 18 years or more, pregnancy is easier. Whether you will give men credit or not, MOST fathers take care of their children or at least provide the basic necessities of life. Of course you think otherwise but that's your perogative.
If the child cannot be taken care of either parents, give it up for adoption and give some one else that chance. There is no need to kill a baby for your own convience.
Sb:
"They dont have to bear the cost of a halt in their careers for their babies and they dont definitely risk the chance of dying during childbirth despite the state of the art technology that supposedly makes it rare".
eric11:
Lol. You sort of sounded like a typical capricorn just now. Anyways, true, but what about the man? What if this guy wanted to go to school to get a career and now he can't because the government is forcing him to get a job to pay child support? Do you really think there is no sacrifice on his part? Of course there is. Every parent sacrifices something, one way or another.
The point is if you got yourself pregnant and you cant spend one year taking care of a child over your career then by all means give it up for adoption.
sb:
"The taxpayer should have to bear the cost of a pro life decision. It shouldn't be between the women and the company in that case because the responsibilty solely lies on her when it is the man who should also be in it "
eric11:
I don't know about the US but in canada we have something called the anti descrimation laws, which states a person cannot be fired due to race, gender, religion, sexual orientation or disability. This means that it is understood in our society that there is a moral obligation to give rights to ALL people.
If you have a company in Canada, you CAN'T fire or refuse to higher a woman out of spite she might get pregnant during her employment. If you do you have just comitted descrimation according to the Labour code of conduct and that is a federal offence.
Hence when you say that a company is not morally obligated to it's employees. Your wrong they are.
BTW In Canada the tax payer already pays for medicare, for education before post secondary, for welfare if you can't work, and police and civil services and the military where men and women are dying for country. Hence the tax payer already pays for pro life.
"They dont have to bear the cost of a halt in their careers for their babies and they dont definitely risk the chance of dying during childbirth despite the state of the art technology that supposedly makes it rare".
eric11:
Lol. You sort of sounded like a typical capricorn just now. Anyways, true, but what about the man? What if this guy wanted to go to school to get a career and now he can't because the government is forcing him to get a job to pay child support? Do you really think there is no sacrifice on his part? Of course there is. Every parent sacrifices something, one way or another.
The point is if you got yourself pregnant and you cant spend one year taking care of a child over your career then by all means give it up for adoption.
sb:
"The taxpayer should have to bear the cost of a pro life decision. It shouldn't be between the women and the company in that case because the responsibilty solely lies on her when it is the man who should also be in it "
eric11:
I don't know about the US but in canada we have something called the anti descrimation laws, which states a person cannot be fired due to race, gender, religion, sexual orientation or disability. This means that it is understood in our society that there is a moral obligation to give rights to ALL people.
If you have a company in Canada, you CAN'T fire or refuse to higher a woman out of spite she might get pregnant during her employment. If you do you have just comitted descrimation according to the Labour code of conduct and that is a federal offence.
Hence when you say that a company is not morally obligated to it's employees. Your wrong they are.
BTW In Canada the tax payer already pays for medicare, for education before post secondary, for welfare if you can't work, and police and civil services and the military where men and women are dying for country. Hence the tax payer already pays for pro life.
sb:
"If you cant do the responsible thing then you can't expect the woman to solely be responsible for bringing the child to this world. And the responsible thing would be to marry the woman.
The fact that you cant see YOUR responsibilty in the equation is why many women choose abortions. Because men can be douches and have choices that suit their whims."
eric11:
I strongly diagree with you here. The responsible thing is being a father to the child not being a husband to the mother. You don't need to marry a woman to be a father. You should only marry for love and no other reason. If you marry for the child sake, that marriage will end up in divorce.
And BTW women can CHOOSE to kill the baby, to give the baby up for adoption, to keep and care for the baby. So yes even women can walk away from her problems if she so chooses. It is hypocrital to assume only men make choices that suit their whims.
IMO any act that leads to a babies death automatically makes BOTH parents douches.
"If you cant do the responsible thing then you can't expect the woman to solely be responsible for bringing the child to this world. And the responsible thing would be to marry the woman.
The fact that you cant see YOUR responsibilty in the equation is why many women choose abortions. Because men can be douches and have choices that suit their whims."
eric11:
I strongly diagree with you here. The responsible thing is being a father to the child not being a husband to the mother. You don't need to marry a woman to be a father. You should only marry for love and no other reason. If you marry for the child sake, that marriage will end up in divorce.
And BTW women can CHOOSE to kill the baby, to give the baby up for adoption, to keep and care for the baby. So yes even women can walk away from her problems if she so chooses. It is hypocrital to assume only men make choices that suit their whims.
IMO any act that leads to a babies death automatically makes BOTH parents douches.
Holy crap!
I leave for like a couple of days and theres so much to read :O
Seriously! There are some opinions I agree with and others I question but each side has a point really ...
However, I must venture off topic, just for one quick second. If someone can answer this question, it may solve all of this craziness with abortion.
Now, someone please tell me, which came first ....
the chicken or the egg 😉
I leave for like a couple of days and theres so much to read :O
Seriously! There are some opinions I agree with and others I question but each side has a point really ...
However, I must venture off topic, just for one quick second. If someone can answer this question, it may solve all of this craziness with abortion.
Now, someone please tell me, which came first ....
the chicken or the egg 😉
Posted by P-AngelPosted by cappysweetie
hmmm, I just checked in to see how much trouble I've gotten myself into concerning this topic 😉 I see that people have conducted themselves properly -- I won't say "I've glad everyone behaved like adults" because there are some adults that act worse than children when they are dealing with something like this.
You're the only child here ... you can always ban yourself from speaking.click to expand
This comment coming from you -- why am I not surprised *shakes head*
Please, for heavens sake, the fact that you are older than me means nothing when it comes to knowledge dear. You can have all the experience in the world, but if you didn't pay attention to what was going on, than you didn't learn anything. So please, don't use the whole 'experience' thing with me, I'm so not buying it.
Why can't you just be nice for once? lol, I guess its simply not in you on certain days ^_^.
Thank you LeoLadyLovestobeloved and Natural25 ^_^. ^_^. ^_^.
You two know exactly what I was saying when I said I'm Pro-Choice. DY knows what I meant too but whatever, it is what it is.
You two know exactly what I was saying when I said I'm Pro-Choice. DY knows what I meant too but whatever, it is what it is.
Posted by eric11
CS:
"As far as whether or not abortion is murder is up for debate really. The whole "you are killing a baby" thing stirs me for some reason. I often wonder if those same people who feel that I've killed my own child by aborting it ... would feel the same way about an animal who was shot by a hunter for sport. Mind you , I said for 'sport' not food. Or would they feel that way about animals who get hit by cars and are a bloody mess all over the roads -- is the same passion invoked on them? Taking a life is taking a life, right?"
E11:
The answer is no. People in general don't value all life the same. My opinion is that we should. I only kill to live, that for me is where I draw the line. If my life is not in danger, what right do I have to kill?
CS:
The jury is still out with me on the whole murder thing. I just really see it that way. If murder were the case, than every time a woman passes an egg during certain times in a month in murder too.
E11:
Cappy sweety you are a sweet heart, and it's hard to disagree with you.
The egg died out of natural causes. Hence it isn't murder. Getting an abortion is a concious act to terminate life. That's why it's considered murder.
Obviously your body sheds cells every day. So shedding cells is a natural part of life.
Awww Eric 🙂 🙂 🙂 No worries man ^_^. It's no problem 😄 We can agree to disagree my buddy. Just because we don't agree doesn't change how I feel 🙂 I'm soooo not like that. I have a virgo friend who sees things exactly the way you do. At the end of the day, he and I are still close, so yeah, its fine. I can see your point because I too use to see things they way you do, but I guess I've changed.
There are more replies I want to make to other comments on here. Everything has stayed constructive for the most part, which brings me joy 🙂 There were a few mishaps but it didn't get created away and I'm glad.
I will however comment more because sb_cap made a few interesting points.
Oh and I just want to go record and say that its hard to disagree with you too Eric ^_^. My totally awesome cap-guy friend and I seem to have different social ethics but thats okay.
I will however comment more because sb_cap made a few interesting points.
Oh and I just want to go record and say that its hard to disagree with you too Eric ^_^. My totally awesome cap-guy friend and I seem to have different social ethics but thats okay.
Posted by eric11
Natural 25 abortions is a humantistic issue it isn't a religious or a gender issue, even though alot of people on both sides perceive it as that.
If a man didn't want a pregnancy, and he killed the baby, found guilty he would go to jail. This is a very rare event but this is technically what would happen and it's called homicide.
Hence it isn't women that people are coming down on, for many pro lifers are actually women not men. It is the abortion itself. The reason why people perceive it as a gender issue because the fetus can't voice it's opinions. So the pro life camp does it on their behalf. We were all fetus's once and we are all glad to be alive. We feel that everyone should have that right.
BTW alot of men support pro choice. Infact look at this thread I am praticually the only guy here voicing a pro life stance. Most women here have said they wouldn't have an abortion but they would defend those who do. Basically what they are saying is they support the princple of abortion even if it is wrong for them.
Anywyas this discussion can go on forever and I think I said my piece and it's time to let others weigh in.
It's been a very interesting discussion and I have learned alot. :-)
Maybe it is a humanistic issue to you. But I think it all depends on the person who you speak with. For some, it has to do with their religious belifs, etc.
Many of the conversations that I have had with people who are "pro-life" have expressed an extreme amount of negativitiy towards the woman who chooses to have the termination. This explains why nut jobs go into clinics and attempt to kill everyone inside. Also, the WOMAN is the one who carries the baby in her womb. In America, the woman is the one who is looked at as the nurtuer, the care giver. The man are viewed as the helper. The man can up and leave whenever he so chooses. This is not as easy for the woman to do. So, when you look at these factors you begin to see how the lines begin to become blurred between this being a humanistic issue opposed to a woman's issue.
Posted by P-Angel
But, then again ... we do have to consider the whore, we have a few on here actually, who fuck men often .... just fuck.
What about them?
YOu know the kind of woman I refer to ..... she is the one slutting around, fucking every guy she can. What if she gets pregnant. Does the same rule apply? We have one of our very own right now in dxp is that is trying to fuck her professor, likely for a grade, now what if she gets pregnant?
Using her as an example ..........
She is doing everythign she can to get this guy to believe she is into him. she watches his every move, apparantly, because she posts about it in here and even analyzes how he responds/reacts to other students so she can use this to her benefit of manipulating him. Eventually he will cave and join her in her bed, and when he does, he will believe she is really into him since she will know so much about him. Then when she has what she wants from him ... she'll "swim" on to her next victim.
so what about those kinds of women if they get pregnant ..... should men have any responsibility?
I know a couple women like that ^^^ Fish, and they abort often.
maybe there should be a limit on abortions, and after that the woman has to get fixed. But, I guess that would really screw up human rights activists heads.
Okay, I have not been on here as much b/c of work...but WHO are you talking about!??!! Give me the scoop. Lol. Totally kidding. 🙂
The egg came first.
I am all for pro-choice because I realize there is a lot of circumstances that govern the decisons we make.
Posted by Ms.P
No, it isn't an abortion pill. It stops you from getting pregnant, if you use it within 72 hrs of an 'accident.'
Yup yup. Plam b is supposed to stop the initial fertilization of the egg. After the egg has been fertilized it can not do anything.
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"As far as whether or not abortion is murder is up for debate really. The whole "you are killing a baby" thing stirs me for some reason. I often wonder if those same people who feel that I've killed my own child by aborting it ... would feel the same way about an animal who was shot by a hunter for sport. Mind you , I said for 'sport' not food. Or would they feel that way about animals who get hit by cars and are a bloody mess all over the roads -- is the same passion invoked on them? Taking a life is taking a life, right?"
E11:
The answer is no. People in general don't value all life the same. My opinion is that we should. I only kill to live, that for me is where I draw the line. If my life is not in danger, what right do I have to kill?
CS:
The jury is still out with me on the whole murder thing. I just really see it that way. If murder were the case, than every time a woman passes an egg during certain times in a month in murder too.
E11:
Cappy sweety you are a sweet heart, and it's hard to disagree with you.
The egg died out of natural causes. Hence it isn't murder. Getting an abortion is a concious act to terminate life. That's why it's considered murder.
Obviously your body sheds cells every day. So shedding cells is a natural part of life.