little_sparrow
@little_sparrow
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be if everyone did that a little more.
Peace out.
🙂
Yes but fertilized eggs get flushed all the time when a woman menstrates. Fertilized eggs don't always attach to the wall of the uterus. Are we going around to try to find the egg in all that mess to see if a woman was pregnant but it didn't take?
Herbs like pennyroyal and vitamin C can make a woman miscarry and were/are used to terminate pregnancies. Are we going to outlaw vitamin C or various herbs?
Peace out.
🙂
Yes but fertilized eggs get flushed all the time when a woman menstrates. Fertilized eggs don't always attach to the wall of the uterus. Are we going around to try to find the egg in all that mess to see if a woman was pregnant but it didn't take?
Herbs like pennyroyal and vitamin C can make a woman miscarry and were/are used to terminate pregnancies. Are we going to outlaw vitamin C or various herbs?
* FYI some woman actually enjoy pregnancy.
HA HA HA!!! You should tell that to my best friend who has had her head in a toliet for the past four almost five months and most days can't even sit up. She would kick you, cry on you, then probably puke from the movement. Some women do enjoy pregnancy for others it is complete hell. You would be very foolish to beieve otherwise. The amount of changes the body, emotions, hormones go through ... you wouldn't even believe it.
* First off, you don't need to carry a baby for the full nine months to give it a fighting chance at life. Infact a baby can live even after six months. Secondly compared to taking care of a child for 18 years or more, pregnancy is easier.
Now you are just being silly. No doctor is going to remove a baby at six months and pregnancy is NOT easy. The fact that you haven't been bitch slapped by anyone is shocking.
* Infact your risk of dying while getting an abortion and developing complications is just as likely as labour if not worst.
This is a complete untruth. It simply is untrue. Abortion is pretty much a 5 minute risk-free proceedure.
Perhaps you need to see a birth or something so you have a little more respect for the process that you are just shoving off. My friend, the one with her head in the toliet, would probably recommend the Business of Being Born. I haven't seen it but it is a documentary that she was telling me about.
HA HA HA!!! You should tell that to my best friend who has had her head in a toliet for the past four almost five months and most days can't even sit up. She would kick you, cry on you, then probably puke from the movement. Some women do enjoy pregnancy for others it is complete hell. You would be very foolish to beieve otherwise. The amount of changes the body, emotions, hormones go through ... you wouldn't even believe it.
* First off, you don't need to carry a baby for the full nine months to give it a fighting chance at life. Infact a baby can live even after six months. Secondly compared to taking care of a child for 18 years or more, pregnancy is easier.
Now you are just being silly. No doctor is going to remove a baby at six months and pregnancy is NOT easy. The fact that you haven't been bitch slapped by anyone is shocking.
* Infact your risk of dying while getting an abortion and developing complications is just as likely as labour if not worst.
This is a complete untruth. It simply is untrue. Abortion is pretty much a 5 minute risk-free proceedure.
Perhaps you need to see a birth or something so you have a little more respect for the process that you are just shoving off. My friend, the one with her head in the toliet, would probably recommend the Business of Being Born. I haven't seen it but it is a documentary that she was telling me about.
* The responsible thing is being a father to the child not being a husband to the mother. You don't need to marry a woman to be a father
You are right. BUT by not marrying the woman and not being a 100% partner to her, you are still saddling the woman with 80+% of the responsibility.
It is kind of interesting as this discussion has gone on to see your true colours emerge.
You are right. BUT by not marrying the woman and not being a 100% partner to her, you are still saddling the woman with 80+% of the responsibility.
It is kind of interesting as this discussion has gone on to see your true colours emerge.
* "Hey, if a man gets his girlfriend or some random girl on the streets pregnant and does not want her to terminate the pregnancy, then he should fight for her not to. BUT to make a judgment and condemn all other women on this decision, I think is over stepping the boundary. Plainly put, men do not have to carry the baby to term, birth the baby and (even) care for the baby. A man can up and leave whenever he so chooses. Which is what a lot of these young and (sometimes) old men are doing. So, it is really hard for me to listen or read about men making such strong judgment calls on women who have terminated a pregnancy. I am not saying that a man cannot have an opinion. However, I have heard such strong condemnation from men about this and that is what I cannot stand. "
Hear! Hear!
* What's intresting about this thread is that it shows most guys are retarded.
HA HA HA!
Hear! Hear!
* What's intresting about this thread is that it shows most guys are retarded.
HA HA HA!
My Story...
I was 18 when I first got pregnant, and me and my sons father decided to abort. Why? WE were not ready for a child. I had only dated him for less than a year. WE talked about and it was a mutual decision.
As I sit here thinking about that day some 20 years ago... I remember looking at him as I sit at home and thought about what I did, he on the other hand was speechless... he did not know what to say to me and that hurt just as much.
I don't know who said this I think it was (Ms.P) but when I got home I questioned my actions, got depessed, but soon thought to myself, it was the best decision, for me at the time.
7 years later I got pregnant again, I kept the baby that will be 23 years old on Friday.
During my sons growing up I got pregnant again, and lost it. Some months or years later I got preganant gain, pass the fetus in the toilet...did not know I was pregnant. All these preganancies were by the same man.
I am Pro Choice, have aways been and will not change. I remember going to the abortion clinic and protesters where outside I did not sign the petition to stop abortion. People have a choices and they as individuals have to deal with the choices they make beit, abortion, murder or suicide.
Do I feel bad talking about it NO..... WHY? I beileve as a chirstian I was forgiving for my sins and I believe come judgement day I will not be questioned about my decision to abort my child..... some 20 years ago. I have repented and I feel in my heart that my GOD has forgiven me.
I was 18 when I first got pregnant, and me and my sons father decided to abort. Why? WE were not ready for a child. I had only dated him for less than a year. WE talked about and it was a mutual decision.
As I sit here thinking about that day some 20 years ago... I remember looking at him as I sit at home and thought about what I did, he on the other hand was speechless... he did not know what to say to me and that hurt just as much.
I don't know who said this I think it was (Ms.P) but when I got home I questioned my actions, got depessed, but soon thought to myself, it was the best decision, for me at the time.
7 years later I got pregnant again, I kept the baby that will be 23 years old on Friday.
During my sons growing up I got pregnant again, and lost it. Some months or years later I got preganant gain, pass the fetus in the toilet...did not know I was pregnant. All these preganancies were by the same man.
I am Pro Choice, have aways been and will not change. I remember going to the abortion clinic and protesters where outside I did not sign the petition to stop abortion. People have a choices and they as individuals have to deal with the choices they make beit, abortion, murder or suicide.
Do I feel bad talking about it NO..... WHY? I beileve as a chirstian I was forgiving for my sins and I believe come judgement day I will not be questioned about my decision to abort my child..... some 20 years ago. I have repented and I feel in my heart that my GOD has forgiven me.
Scorpio Lady I am not a religious man by any means, at least anymore, so I won't comment on your salvation, but at the risk of sounding hypocritical, I have a question.
If you believe it was a sin to have an abortion (if I understood your testimony correctly), why wouldn't you oppose all abortions?
If you believe it was a sin to have an abortion (if I understood your testimony correctly), why wouldn't you oppose all abortions?
LS
Eric. You are still arguing about when life begins not about the life that is already there that is about to be forever altered. Admittedly I skimmed from a few pages on because I don't have much time.
Eric11:
He he, after reading your comments, I must admit you made me chuckle. Two life's are "already there", if one was alive and the other not, this debate wouldn't be happening.
LS:
I don't see it as murder or anything like that. From my own spiritual stand point more of the soul returning to heaven to choose new parents or wait for a better time. In some cultures, there are beautiful rituals where the woman says good-bye to the soul or some believe the soul stays close to the mother and they are reunited in the afterlife. I think in one culture a doll comes to represent the unborn whether through miscarriage or through termination. Life is seen as a cycle.
Eric11:
This is funny. 🙂
LS:
You and I and anyone here will never know when life begins. We can argue and argue about it but we'll never know. I will never agree with you, you will never agree with me.
Eric11:
A zygote (fertilized egg) is alive isn't it?
LS:
Perhaps if babies passed straight to their father's hands and were the father's responsibility not the woman's I would feel completely different.
Eric:
You would feel different that the fetus is alive? Wow that's very generous of you.
LS:
I highly recommend Peter Vardy's the Puzzle of sex to you. As a recovering Christian, I think you would get a lot out of it. Most of my interest in Christianity is from a historical point of view not a theological point of view. Having the history changes the context of what is said.
Eric11:
Thanks but no thanks. I already know my moral stand point on this discussion.
Eric. You are still arguing about when life begins not about the life that is already there that is about to be forever altered. Admittedly I skimmed from a few pages on because I don't have much time.
Eric11:
He he, after reading your comments, I must admit you made me chuckle. Two life's are "already there", if one was alive and the other not, this debate wouldn't be happening.
LS:
I don't see it as murder or anything like that. From my own spiritual stand point more of the soul returning to heaven to choose new parents or wait for a better time. In some cultures, there are beautiful rituals where the woman says good-bye to the soul or some believe the soul stays close to the mother and they are reunited in the afterlife. I think in one culture a doll comes to represent the unborn whether through miscarriage or through termination. Life is seen as a cycle.
Eric11:
This is funny. 🙂
LS:
You and I and anyone here will never know when life begins. We can argue and argue about it but we'll never know. I will never agree with you, you will never agree with me.
Eric11:
A zygote (fertilized egg) is alive isn't it?
LS:
Perhaps if babies passed straight to their father's hands and were the father's responsibility not the woman's I would feel completely different.
Eric:
You would feel different that the fetus is alive? Wow that's very generous of you.
LS:
I highly recommend Peter Vardy's the Puzzle of sex to you. As a recovering Christian, I think you would get a lot out of it. Most of my interest in Christianity is from a historical point of view not a theological point of view. Having the history changes the context of what is said.
Eric11:
Thanks but no thanks. I already know my moral stand point on this discussion.
LS
From my own point of view, I have a hard time believing Jesus would have anything but compassion and kindness for a woman who had an abortion .... because that is pretty much his teaching distilled. Have compassion and forgiveness for everyone. Since neither of us are Christians it is kind of a moot point.
eric11:
If we are going to talk about Christianity then I must bring up the item of a soul. According to religion, we were all given one. Jesus would never aprove of some one intentionally killing the life force of another being, as it is stealing from God his right to create and perserve life.
When Mary was with child with the unborn baby Jesus she was not given a choice, she was force into this league because of God's will. Also, when Mary visited Elizabeth, mother to the unborn John the baptist. It is written in the gospel of Luke, that the unborn baby John lept for joy in his mothers womb. Hence each baby had a soul. Arguably Jesus might have been only a fetus and John a litte more delevoped.
Hence since neither one of us is religious, this is a moot point to make.
LS:
Life is too short to hate. Find compassion and ask what it must be like for that person before you judge. How much better life would be
eric11:
What a silly thing to say. Why don't you take your own advise and mentally put yourself in the position of an unborn baby who is about to die and then lecture me about compassion.
It is compession for the life in limbo that drives the pro life stance.
From my own point of view, I have a hard time believing Jesus would have anything but compassion and kindness for a woman who had an abortion .... because that is pretty much his teaching distilled. Have compassion and forgiveness for everyone. Since neither of us are Christians it is kind of a moot point.
eric11:
If we are going to talk about Christianity then I must bring up the item of a soul. According to religion, we were all given one. Jesus would never aprove of some one intentionally killing the life force of another being, as it is stealing from God his right to create and perserve life.
When Mary was with child with the unborn baby Jesus she was not given a choice, she was force into this league because of God's will. Also, when Mary visited Elizabeth, mother to the unborn John the baptist. It is written in the gospel of Luke, that the unborn baby John lept for joy in his mothers womb. Hence each baby had a soul. Arguably Jesus might have been only a fetus and John a litte more delevoped.
Hence since neither one of us is religious, this is a moot point to make.
LS:
Life is too short to hate. Find compassion and ask what it must be like for that person before you judge. How much better life would be
eric11:
What a silly thing to say. Why don't you take your own advise and mentally put yourself in the position of an unborn baby who is about to die and then lecture me about compassion.
It is compession for the life in limbo that drives the pro life stance.
Posted by eric11
Scorpio Lady I am not a religious man by any means, at least anymore, so I won't comment on your salvation, but at the risk of sounding hypocritical, I have a question.
If you believe it was a sin to have an abortion (if I understood your testimony correctly), why wouldn't you oppose all abortions?
I was 18, I was not into the church, I felt in my heart that what I did was a sin... as I got older and found my own Higher Power, and learned alot about who I am.... and how forgiving my Higher Power is. I asked for forgivness, and believe that I was forgiven. Today I have a choices... some of them are not always going to be the right ones by society or the people in my life but they are the right ones for me and if I pray on my choices and ask my Higher Power for guidence to make choices/decision I believe they are the right ones.
Why would'nt I oppose abortions?
Well, personally I think about all the babies that were/are born by women today/yesterday and tommorrow, and how the mother of these babies had/have choices. I am so sick and tired of hearing how women have babies and they either, abuse or neglect the child, leave them sitting by a dumpster etc... or they have babies to keep the man (which is the oldest trick in the book, and it did not work back then and it will not work know in this new millenium)...
I think about how Social Service, Child Walfare and Protection have all these chidren that they need to either find a home or take out of a home for varies reasons, mainly neglect and abuse.
I just think if there was a choice that women can make without being looked at as the devil, bad mother, going to hell etc... some women would be more incline to have an abortion.... and it would eleviate, all the children born in this world that are stuck in the system with no place to go, or being killed by their mother because of mental issues that they claim they have that made them do such harsh acts to innocent babies/childern and not go to jail because they want to blame it on post partum, pms or any other mental strain that women go through.
What is the country in Africa that cuts the women uterus out or something so that they can stop the over populations of children. They don't even have a choice except flee the country.
Just my view/opinion
LS
Yes but fertilized eggs get flushed all the time when a woman menstrates. Fertilized eggs don't always attach to the wall of the uterus. Are we going around to try to find the egg in all that mess to see if a woman was pregnant but it didn't take?
eric11:
If there was any hope in saving the cell than yes. Since there is virtually none, I don't see the logic in your question. Why do you compare something that is out of your control with something that is?
LS
Herbs like pennyroyal and vitamin C can make a woman miscarry and were/are used to terminate pregnancies. Are we going to outlaw vitamin C or various herbs?
eric11:
vitamin C isn't a herb it's a vitamin silly. And yes I would need to see a link before I could accept this as true.
LS:
You should tell that to my best friend who has had her head in a toliet for the past four almost five months and most days can't even sit up. She would kick you, cry on you, then probably puke from the movement. Some women do enjoy pregnancy for others it is complete hell. You would be very foolish to beieve otherwise.
eric11:
I don't. That is why I said SOME WOMAN (not all woman) have a hard pregnancy. You would have been wise to read what I wrote before commenting.
LS:
Now you are just being silly. No doctor is going to remove a baby at six months and pregnancy is NOT easy. The fact that you haven't been bitch slapped by anyone is shocking.
eric11:
My nephew was born after only spending 6 months in the womb. That is three months premature and he is alive and well. So wrong again when you think a doctor can't/won't deliver a baby at six months pregnancy. The point I was making to sb which you are oblivious too is that if a woman was going to abort the baby anyways, it could be aborted alive after six months.
BTW I said SOME woman enjoyed their prengancy, I never said it was easy.
LS:
This is a complete untruth. It simply is untrue. Abortion is pretty much a 5 minute risk-free proceedure.
Yes but fertilized eggs get flushed all the time when a woman menstrates. Fertilized eggs don't always attach to the wall of the uterus. Are we going around to try to find the egg in all that mess to see if a woman was pregnant but it didn't take?
eric11:
If there was any hope in saving the cell than yes. Since there is virtually none, I don't see the logic in your question. Why do you compare something that is out of your control with something that is?
LS
Herbs like pennyroyal and vitamin C can make a woman miscarry and were/are used to terminate pregnancies. Are we going to outlaw vitamin C or various herbs?
eric11:
vitamin C isn't a herb it's a vitamin silly. And yes I would need to see a link before I could accept this as true.
LS:
You should tell that to my best friend who has had her head in a toliet for the past four almost five months and most days can't even sit up. She would kick you, cry on you, then probably puke from the movement. Some women do enjoy pregnancy for others it is complete hell. You would be very foolish to beieve otherwise.
eric11:
I don't. That is why I said SOME WOMAN (not all woman) have a hard pregnancy. You would have been wise to read what I wrote before commenting.
LS:
Now you are just being silly. No doctor is going to remove a baby at six months and pregnancy is NOT easy. The fact that you haven't been bitch slapped by anyone is shocking.
eric11:
My nephew was born after only spending 6 months in the womb. That is three months premature and he is alive and well. So wrong again when you think a doctor can't/won't deliver a baby at six months pregnancy. The point I was making to sb which you are oblivious too is that if a woman was going to abort the baby anyways, it could be aborted alive after six months.
BTW I said SOME woman enjoyed their prengancy, I never said it was easy.
LS:
This is a complete untruth. It simply is untrue. Abortion is pretty much a 5 minute risk-free proceedure.
LS:
This is a complete untruth. It simply is untrue. Abortion is pretty much a 5 minute risk-free proceedure.
eric11:
An abortion is a surgey and surgey is never risk free.
There are 6 different kinds of abortions. Listing them inorder of last month period LMP:
1) Manual Vacuum Aspiration: up to 7 weeks after last menstrual period
2) Suction Curettage: between 6 to 14 weeks after LMP
3) Dilation and Evacuation (D&E): between 13 to 24 weeks after LMP
4) Dilation and Extraction (D&X): from 20 weeks after LMP to full-term
5) RU486, Mifepristone (Abortion Pill)
6) Partial birth abortion
Each one of these are neither risk free or 5 minutes in length. Anywoman on this board who actually had an abortion will tell you that you are full of shit. I would strongly encourage women to know the risk they are taking by having an abortion, especially a late term abortion.
A woman who gets in abortion will be educated on the potential risk to her life which will include:Heavy Bleeding, Infection, Incomplete Abortion, compleications in Anesthesia, Sepsis, damage to the Cervix, Scarring of the Uterine Lining, Perforation of the Uterus, Damage to Internal Organs,
Death.
LS
Perhaps you need to see a birth or something so you have a little more respect for the process that you are just shoving off.
eric11:
Ha ha what a little hypocrite. I've never shoved off labour. I have a respect for the risk women take, but obviously you have no respect for the risk in abortions. Once again heed your own advise.
LS:
You are right. BUT by not marrying the woman and not being a 100% partner to her, you are still saddling the woman with 80+% of the responsibility. It is kind of interesting as this discussion has gone on to see your true colours emerge.
eric11:
You don't even know me, how can you say what my true colours are? I'm not the one arguing for the right to kill a baby. If being pro life some how puts me in a bad light then being an abassador for murder does nothing for you either.
Rather it is interesting to see as this discussion progresses I can see what your true ingnorance is.
It's nice to see a fellow Canadian on these boards.
This is a complete untruth. It simply is untrue. Abortion is pretty much a 5 minute risk-free proceedure.
eric11:
An abortion is a surgey and surgey is never risk free.
There are 6 different kinds of abortions. Listing them inorder of last month period LMP:
1) Manual Vacuum Aspiration: up to 7 weeks after last menstrual period
2) Suction Curettage: between 6 to 14 weeks after LMP
3) Dilation and Evacuation (D&E): between 13 to 24 weeks after LMP
4) Dilation and Extraction (D&X): from 20 weeks after LMP to full-term
5) RU486, Mifepristone (Abortion Pill)
6) Partial birth abortion
Each one of these are neither risk free or 5 minutes in length. Anywoman on this board who actually had an abortion will tell you that you are full of shit. I would strongly encourage women to know the risk they are taking by having an abortion, especially a late term abortion.
A woman who gets in abortion will be educated on the potential risk to her life which will include:Heavy Bleeding, Infection, Incomplete Abortion, compleications in Anesthesia, Sepsis, damage to the Cervix, Scarring of the Uterine Lining, Perforation of the Uterus, Damage to Internal Organs,
Death.
LS
Perhaps you need to see a birth or something so you have a little more respect for the process that you are just shoving off.
eric11:
Ha ha what a little hypocrite. I've never shoved off labour. I have a respect for the risk women take, but obviously you have no respect for the risk in abortions. Once again heed your own advise.
LS:
You are right. BUT by not marrying the woman and not being a 100% partner to her, you are still saddling the woman with 80+% of the responsibility. It is kind of interesting as this discussion has gone on to see your true colours emerge.
eric11:
You don't even know me, how can you say what my true colours are? I'm not the one arguing for the right to kill a baby. If being pro life some how puts me in a bad light then being an abassador for murder does nothing for you either.
Rather it is interesting to see as this discussion progresses I can see what your true ingnorance is.
It's nice to see a fellow Canadian on these boards.
BTW I just wanted to add, join custody means either parent can have a child in their care half of the time. IN some cases it isn't unheard of for a man to be the sole provitor for the children. Britney Spears for an example.
Jason2213
That is why I am pro-choice.....
That is why I am pro-choice.....
Jason, society is sick, but let us contribute to the improvement of humankind instead of being an accessory to the problems.
Or http://www.cwfa.org/articles/3151/CWA/life/index.htm> these sad cases.
Eric I hereby invite you to go through each of my pads every month and check to make sure the egg isn't fertilized. 🙂
Hell, the risk of miscarriage in the first three months is so high women aren't even suppose to tell anyone they are pregnant. So if you wanna run around trying to save those miscarriages as well, go for it.
On a side note: I read an interesting Medical Anthropology article looking at the terminology used in medical textbooks to describe the female reproductive system, specifically refering to menopause as a breakdown, implying that the women are baby making factories and when preganacy does not occur something has went terribly wrong. Her reproductive system has failed. Meanwhile, men ejactuate how many eggs and this type of reasoning does not apply. What makes it more interesting is that women's bodies really fight pregnancy. The whole system is designed to make pregnation as impossible as possible. (Sorry bad sentence) Which kind of makes sense from one point of view because in a way, it is a parasitic relationship. (I am just throwing out ideas here before all the moms get mad at me. 🙂)
But seriously how do you know what the fetus wants? How do you know that the fetus didn't choose that mother knowing it would be aborted? You don't know anything about the karma, contracts whatever between the souls, if you believe in that sort of thing. I would have no problem not being born. There are way worse things than dying. (I never understood this argument. What if you mother aborted you?!??! So— I wouldn't be here ... and.... —? It really wouldn't make much difference and certainly not to me. lol!)
You think other people's belief systems are funny because you don't share them and know nothing about them. Why are other cultures and other people's beliefs less valid than your own? There is no one way to experience life. *shrug*
Just google vitamin C and miscarriage or abortion. I know it isn't a herb. @@ Seriously. There are things that you can call me for but my intelligence is generally not one of them. I am both well read AND well researched. I have even offered you some sources but you have refrained because you don't want to challenge your own views. Which is fine. You are looking at this through your own individualistic paradigm and ethnocentric views. Which is fine.
By the way, The Puzzle of Sex is not about abortion. It is about the ethics of sexuality in the Christian traditions.
Hell, the risk of miscarriage in the first three months is so high women aren't even suppose to tell anyone they are pregnant. So if you wanna run around trying to save those miscarriages as well, go for it.
On a side note: I read an interesting Medical Anthropology article looking at the terminology used in medical textbooks to describe the female reproductive system, specifically refering to menopause as a breakdown, implying that the women are baby making factories and when preganacy does not occur something has went terribly wrong. Her reproductive system has failed. Meanwhile, men ejactuate how many eggs and this type of reasoning does not apply. What makes it more interesting is that women's bodies really fight pregnancy. The whole system is designed to make pregnation as impossible as possible. (Sorry bad sentence) Which kind of makes sense from one point of view because in a way, it is a parasitic relationship. (I am just throwing out ideas here before all the moms get mad at me. 🙂)
But seriously how do you know what the fetus wants? How do you know that the fetus didn't choose that mother knowing it would be aborted? You don't know anything about the karma, contracts whatever between the souls, if you believe in that sort of thing. I would have no problem not being born. There are way worse things than dying. (I never understood this argument. What if you mother aborted you?!??! So— I wouldn't be here ... and.... —? It really wouldn't make much difference and certainly not to me. lol!)
You think other people's belief systems are funny because you don't share them and know nothing about them. Why are other cultures and other people's beliefs less valid than your own? There is no one way to experience life. *shrug*
Just google vitamin C and miscarriage or abortion. I know it isn't a herb. @@ Seriously. There are things that you can call me for but my intelligence is generally not one of them. I am both well read AND well researched. I have even offered you some sources but you have refrained because you don't want to challenge your own views. Which is fine. You are looking at this through your own individualistic paradigm and ethnocentric views. Which is fine.
By the way, The Puzzle of Sex is not about abortion. It is about the ethics of sexuality in the Christian traditions.
I lost half my post. Oh well. lol!
Scorpionlady
So much atrocity has been committed in Africa I am uncertain of which country it might be. Do you have any idea of when it may have been? I would be interested in reading up on it. I'll poke around and see if I can find anything but if you think of anything let me know.
I do believe China had a policy of forced abortion under the one-child policy but I don't believe that entailed hysterectomies .
It is not uncommon for oppressing forces to use rape and forced birth control/sterilization as methods of terror and population control. Usually part of "ethnic cleansing" and "purifying", a way of lowering moral.
(((Scorpionlady)))
Thanks for sharing your story.
Scorpionlady
So much atrocity has been committed in Africa I am uncertain of which country it might be. Do you have any idea of when it may have been? I would be interested in reading up on it. I'll poke around and see if I can find anything but if you think of anything let me know.
I do believe China had a policy of forced abortion under the one-child policy but I don't believe that entailed hysterectomies .
It is not uncommon for oppressing forces to use rape and forced birth control/sterilization as methods of terror and population control. Usually part of "ethnic cleansing" and "purifying", a way of lowering moral.
(((Scorpionlady)))
Thanks for sharing your story.
* but let us contribute to the improvement of humankind instead of being an accessory to the problems.
By ensuring abortions are free and accessible to those who need them most. 🙂
By ensuring abortions are free and accessible to those who need them most. 🙂
You know Scorpionlady, I walked away and had to come back to say I really applaud you for telling you story given the stigma surrounding abortion. Considering how many women have abortions, few ever talk about it openly because they don't want the stigma, judgements, or just to be a poster child for one side or another. They automatically become looked at differently. It really isn't fair.
You made the best decision you could at the time. There should be no shame there.
I know of a great site that has hundreds of women's abortion stories on it where they talk about how there abortion was the right choice for them. If you ever need it, let me know and I will happily slip the address to you ... or any other woman who had an abortion. Just pm me as I know there are probably others out there who aren't saying that they did.
I just wanted to say it is very brave to post your story especially when facing such negativity and stigma around the topic.
Be well. And hopefully be free.
🙂
You made the best decision you could at the time. There should be no shame there.
I know of a great site that has hundreds of women's abortion stories on it where they talk about how there abortion was the right choice for them. If you ever need it, let me know and I will happily slip the address to you ... or any other woman who had an abortion. Just pm me as I know there are probably others out there who aren't saying that they did.
I just wanted to say it is very brave to post your story especially when facing such negativity and stigma around the topic.
Be well. And hopefully be free.
🙂
I just looked at that site you posted lildol.
I am shocked that they think it has anything to do with Roe vs Wade instead of the guilt and shame women are made to feel regarding their sexuality! If you notice on that site in particular, it is all young women who may not have had the money or the means to get an abortion. It would be interesting to talk to them and understand why they felt this was their only option. So, so sad. 😢
I think getting pregnant young can be especially devastating to young women who were sexually abused as children. An acquaintance of mine was an incest survivor and she said that had she got pregnant young she would have gone crazy and done anything to get rid of it because it would have been a visible sign of the shame she felt. Now that she is older and has dealt with it all, it is different.
So sad.
😢
I am shocked that they think it has anything to do with Roe vs Wade instead of the guilt and shame women are made to feel regarding their sexuality! If you notice on that site in particular, it is all young women who may not have had the money or the means to get an abortion. It would be interesting to talk to them and understand why they felt this was their only option. So, so sad. 😢
I think getting pregnant young can be especially devastating to young women who were sexually abused as children. An acquaintance of mine was an incest survivor and she said that had she got pregnant young she would have gone crazy and done anything to get rid of it because it would have been a visible sign of the shame she felt. Now that she is older and has dealt with it all, it is different.
So sad.
😢
LS:
Just google vitamin C and miscarriage or abortion. I know it isn't a herb. @@ Seriously. There are things that you can call me for but my intelligence is generally not one of them.
eric11:
Vitamin C a.k.a. absorbic acid is found in almost all fruits. Doctors recommend that a pregnant woman take 6000 mg daily as the fetus will drain her supply. One vitamin C tablet is between 500 to 1000 mg. Not taking enough Vitamin C will give you a high risk for scurvy and SIDS in newborns.
Since all fruits contain large amounts of absorbic acid, one cannot avoid taking it even if they tried, hence Vitamin C is NOT a form of birth control and WON'T lead to miscarriages. How do I know? Because I was an Organic Chemist and I use to synthesis vitamin C in a lab.
My diagnoses on LS. R u intellegent? Maybe. knowledgeable? Not so much.
LS:
Eric I hereby invite you to go through each of my pads every month and check to make sure the egg isn't fertilized.
eric11:
If you couldn't fish a fertilized egg out of your red tea bag what makes you think I could?
LS:
On a side note: I read an interesting Medical Anthropology article looking at the terminology used in medical textbooks to describe the female reproductive system, specifically refering to menopause as a breakdown, implying that the women are baby making factories and when preganacy does not occur something has went terribly wrong. Her reproductive system has failed. Meanwhile, men ejactuate how many eggs and this type of reasoning does not apply. What makes it more interesting is that women's bodies really fight pregnancy. The whole system is designed to make pregnation as impossible as possible. (Sorry bad sentence) Which kind of makes sense from one point of view because in a way, it is a parasitic relationship. (I am just throwing out ideas here before all the moms get mad at me. )
eric11:
Number one. Men don't ejaculate eggs. lol. And number two your vagina is intended to fight off bacteria infection not sperm. Infact the time you are most fertile you will secrete a milky substance that almost looks like cum. It's your body making your inner workings more hospitable place for sperm to live long enough to fertilize the egg. A woman's orgasim pushes the cum deeper into the uterus increasinh the chance of fertilization.
During your most fertile time in your cycle, your body doesn't fight pregnancy, it actually encourages it.
Just google vitamin C and miscarriage or abortion. I know it isn't a herb. @@ Seriously. There are things that you can call me for but my intelligence is generally not one of them.
eric11:
Vitamin C a.k.a. absorbic acid is found in almost all fruits. Doctors recommend that a pregnant woman take 6000 mg daily as the fetus will drain her supply. One vitamin C tablet is between 500 to 1000 mg. Not taking enough Vitamin C will give you a high risk for scurvy and SIDS in newborns.
Since all fruits contain large amounts of absorbic acid, one cannot avoid taking it even if they tried, hence Vitamin C is NOT a form of birth control and WON'T lead to miscarriages. How do I know? Because I was an Organic Chemist and I use to synthesis vitamin C in a lab.
My diagnoses on LS. R u intellegent? Maybe. knowledgeable? Not so much.
LS:
Eric I hereby invite you to go through each of my pads every month and check to make sure the egg isn't fertilized.
eric11:
If you couldn't fish a fertilized egg out of your red tea bag what makes you think I could?
LS:
On a side note: I read an interesting Medical Anthropology article looking at the terminology used in medical textbooks to describe the female reproductive system, specifically refering to menopause as a breakdown, implying that the women are baby making factories and when preganacy does not occur something has went terribly wrong. Her reproductive system has failed. Meanwhile, men ejactuate how many eggs and this type of reasoning does not apply. What makes it more interesting is that women's bodies really fight pregnancy. The whole system is designed to make pregnation as impossible as possible. (Sorry bad sentence) Which kind of makes sense from one point of view because in a way, it is a parasitic relationship. (I am just throwing out ideas here before all the moms get mad at me. )
eric11:
Number one. Men don't ejaculate eggs. lol. And number two your vagina is intended to fight off bacteria infection not sperm. Infact the time you are most fertile you will secrete a milky substance that almost looks like cum. It's your body making your inner workings more hospitable place for sperm to live long enough to fertilize the egg. A woman's orgasim pushes the cum deeper into the uterus increasinh the chance of fertilization.
During your most fertile time in your cycle, your body doesn't fight pregnancy, it actually encourages it.
LS:
But seriously how do you know what the fetus wants? How do you know that the fetus didn't choose that mother knowing it would be aborted? You don't know anything about the karma, contracts whatever between the souls, if you believe in that sort of thing. I would have no problem not being born. There are way worse things than dying. (I never understood this argument. What if you mother aborted you?!??! So— I wouldn't be here ... and.... —? It really wouldn't make much difference and certainly not to me. lol!)
eric11:
I don't believe in Karma and I don't consider what if's. I deal with what is. What I know is that a fetus is a living being inside a womb becoming a little baby. Whether or not this baby has a soul is only a matter of speculation and is not even a logical assumption to make.
LS
You think other people's belief systems are funny because you don't share them and know nothing about them. Why are other cultures and other people's beliefs less valid than your own? There is no one way to experience life. *shrug*
eric11:
Actually I know alot about spirituality and probably know more than 99% of the people on this board. I find it ironic that a spiritual person would see a fetus as a lump of mass to be ejected out at a woman's whim. That strikes me as carnal not spiritual.
A spiritual person would regard life as sacret and divine. Things that I doubt you really know anything about.
Yet if it's any consolation I do believe in a soul and I have been told be many that I am one of the oldest their is. And if there is a soul that is one more reason to treat all life with respect and love.
But seriously how do you know what the fetus wants? How do you know that the fetus didn't choose that mother knowing it would be aborted? You don't know anything about the karma, contracts whatever between the souls, if you believe in that sort of thing. I would have no problem not being born. There are way worse things than dying. (I never understood this argument. What if you mother aborted you?!??! So— I wouldn't be here ... and.... —? It really wouldn't make much difference and certainly not to me. lol!)
eric11:
I don't believe in Karma and I don't consider what if's. I deal with what is. What I know is that a fetus is a living being inside a womb becoming a little baby. Whether or not this baby has a soul is only a matter of speculation and is not even a logical assumption to make.
LS
You think other people's belief systems are funny because you don't share them and know nothing about them. Why are other cultures and other people's beliefs less valid than your own? There is no one way to experience life. *shrug*
eric11:
Actually I know alot about spirituality and probably know more than 99% of the people on this board. I find it ironic that a spiritual person would see a fetus as a lump of mass to be ejected out at a woman's whim. That strikes me as carnal not spiritual.
A spiritual person would regard life as sacret and divine. Things that I doubt you really know anything about.
Yet if it's any consolation I do believe in a soul and I have been told be many that I am one of the oldest their is. And if there is a soul that is one more reason to treat all life with respect and love.
Posted by little_sparrow
You know Scorpionlady, I walked away and had to come back to say I really applaud you for telling you story given the stigma surrounding abortion. Considering how many women have abortions, few ever talk about it openly because they don't want the stigma, judgements, or just to be a poster child for one side or another. They automatically become looked at differently. It really isn't fair.
You made the best decision you could at the time. There should be no shame there.
I know of a great site that has hundreds of women's abortion stories on it where they talk about how there abortion was the right choice for them. If you ever need it, let me know and I will happily slip the address to you ... or any other woman who had an abortion. Just pm me as I know there are probably others out there who aren't saying that they did.
I just wanted to say it is very brave to post your story especially when facing such negativity and stigma around the topic.
Be well. And hopefully be free.
🙂
Thanks LS.....
I said my story because I believe abortion sometimes is the best decision depending on a womens situation. I feel no regret or shame. Yea there are people that are ashame to tell there story because of how they will be perceived, but is it right to hold something inside because you fear that you will be judged?... I don't judge because it is not my place to judge.
I will check out that site....
Posted by little_sparrow
I just looked at that site you posted lildol.
I am shocked that they think it has anything to do with Roe vs Wade instead of the guilt and shame women are made to feel regarding their sexuality! If you notice on that site in particular, it is all young women who may not have had the money or the means to get an abortion. It would be interesting to talk to them and understand why they felt this was their only option. So, so sad. 😢
Oh, I was quite taken aback myself... I posted for the examples. I was a little confused by how it related to Roe vs Wade until I looked at their comments below the list. I sure hope no one thought I was pushing such propaganda. I see those examples as reasons why abortion should not be stigmatized and more readily available as a public option.
For those ANTI-CHOICE folks, you should take note that abortions have always been performed! The need for legalization does not only fall within the realm of a woman having the choice to make such a decision (because that choice is theirs to make whether abortion is legal or not), but to have the means of doing so in a safe manner as reflected by http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/03/health/views/03essa.html> this doctor's first hand account.
It is one thing to not agree to the practice of abortion, it is another to not believe that a woman has the right to chose a safe option when contemplating such a decision.
I could not have an abortion myself, but that is my CHOICE.
I like having the OPTION, were I to ever decide it is the right course for me.
So I am unequivocally Pro-Choice.
Abortion is a very private, personal, and emotional issue.
It's not my business to try to force my beliefs or opinions on another person.
And it's not YOUR business to do so either!
Outlawing abortion again would NOT end abortion - history has proven that.
But here's the crux of it all, for me:
Until YOU personally get me knocked up, you've got NO say in my choice.
Now I will go, because I have no wish to read anything else in this thread,
No wish to read how strangers who have NO clue about me or my circumstances
would PRESUME they know what I should be allowed to do.
But I'll tell you one thing...
Even if abortion were illegal, if I wanted one, I would GET one.
I like having the OPTION, were I to ever decide it is the right course for me.
So I am unequivocally Pro-Choice.
Abortion is a very private, personal, and emotional issue.
It's not my business to try to force my beliefs or opinions on another person.
And it's not YOUR business to do so either!
Outlawing abortion again would NOT end abortion - history has proven that.
But here's the crux of it all, for me:
Until YOU personally get me knocked up, you've got NO say in my choice.
Now I will go, because I have no wish to read anything else in this thread,
No wish to read how strangers who have NO clue about me or my circumstances
would PRESUME they know what I should be allowed to do.
But I'll tell you one thing...
Even if abortion were illegal, if I wanted one, I would GET one.
Jason2213,
What you've posted on those links is one of the reasons I am Pro-Choice right now.
Like I said, I wasn't always like this but a girl's gotta develop her own mind someday. Like I said, I'm almost 25 years old. What in the heck do I look like being afraid of thing like abortion. I mean, I am an adult woman I think 🙂
True, there are some people who disagree but that's them you know. Everything can't be bi-partisan 😉 With somethings, it is what it is. However, I don't like how those who support abortion are looked down upon or told "OMG, you are a sinner" and all of that bullshit. I mean, I just like it all.
Where do they get off calling someone a sinner? You know what I mean?
So I guess its not a sin to mindlessly have children? To just mindlessly have children without a care in the world.
This is what I've observed:
Some women have children without any idea on how they are going to feed themselves, so how are they going to raise a kid?
Some women have children just to get money from the government, so they don't have to work -- wow, thats a real hoot. I'm a college student, I need that money damn it (😉)
Some women have children so they'll have someone to 'love' them. Umm, well ... a child needs you to be stable enough to love them before they can just 'love' you.
Some women have children under the most 'horrible' circumstances. Granted, there's no perfect time to have a kid, but for crying-out-loud, common-sense should sink in on when NOT to have one. And they wonder why children are so screwed up. OMG, look at the environment they were raised in.
i.e. Mom and Dad can't stand each other but they are putting on a front -- when the kid gets older, they can sooooo, see through that.
Some women have children knowing full well that there so-called relationship is going down the drain, but they keep on getting pragnant for the sake that 'oh just maybe' the guy will stick around for the 'children' all for the sake of the 'children' Oh my god, that's a horrible thing to do.
And there's more but its too much to get into.
Critics say that women are playing with the lives of children by having an abortion. Well, I say that women who aimlessly have just are the ones who are really gambling with the lives of children.
What you've posted on those links is one of the reasons I am Pro-Choice right now.
Like I said, I wasn't always like this but a girl's gotta develop her own mind someday. Like I said, I'm almost 25 years old. What in the heck do I look like being afraid of thing like abortion. I mean, I am an adult woman I think 🙂
True, there are some people who disagree but that's them you know. Everything can't be bi-partisan 😉 With somethings, it is what it is. However, I don't like how those who support abortion are looked down upon or told "OMG, you are a sinner" and all of that bullshit. I mean, I just like it all.
Where do they get off calling someone a sinner? You know what I mean?
So I guess its not a sin to mindlessly have children? To just mindlessly have children without a care in the world.
This is what I've observed:
Some women have children without any idea on how they are going to feed themselves, so how are they going to raise a kid?
Some women have children just to get money from the government, so they don't have to work -- wow, thats a real hoot. I'm a college student, I need that money damn it (😉)
Some women have children so they'll have someone to 'love' them. Umm, well ... a child needs you to be stable enough to love them before they can just 'love' you.
Some women have children under the most 'horrible' circumstances. Granted, there's no perfect time to have a kid, but for crying-out-loud, common-sense should sink in on when NOT to have one. And they wonder why children are so screwed up. OMG, look at the environment they were raised in.
i.e. Mom and Dad can't stand each other but they are putting on a front -- when the kid gets older, they can sooooo, see through that.
Some women have children knowing full well that there so-called relationship is going down the drain, but they keep on getting pragnant for the sake that 'oh just maybe' the guy will stick around for the 'children' all for the sake of the 'children' Oh my god, that's a horrible thing to do.
And there's more but its too much to get into.
Critics say that women are playing with the lives of children by having an abortion. Well, I say that women who aimlessly have just are the ones who are really gambling with the lives of children.
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You are still arguing about when life begins not about the life that is already there that is about to be forever altered. Admittedly I skimmed from a few pages on because I don't have much time.
I don't see it as murder or anything like that. From my own spiritual stand point more of the soul returning to heaven to choose new parents or wait for a better time. In some cultures, there are beautiful rituals where the woman says good-bye to the soul or some believe the soul stays close to the mother and they are reunited in the afterlife. I think in one culture a doll comes to represent the unborn whether through miscarriage or through termination. Life is seen as a cycle.
You and I and anyone here will never know when life begins. We can argue and argue about it but we'll never know. I will never agree with you, you will never agree with me. I sometimes think that having an abortion is an ethical decision and the right decision for everyone involved. Perhaps if babies passed straight to their father's hands and were the father's responsibility not the woman's I would feel completely different. Unfortunetly, that isn't the situation.
I don't believe anyone should be punished for being desperate. Finding yourself pregnant when you don't want to be ... that is brutal.
I highly recommend Peter Vardy's the Puzzle of sex to you. As a recovering Christian, I think you would get a lot out of it. Most of my interest in Christianity is from a historical point of view not a theological point of view. Having the history changes the context of what is said.
From my own point of view, I have a hard time believing Jesus would have anything but compassion and kindness for a woman who had an abortion .... because that is pretty much his teaching distilled. Have compassion and forgiveness for everyone. Since neither of us are Christians it is kind of a moot point but I still think you would enjoy Vardy. Ha Ha Ha
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