Astrobyn
@Astrobyn
11 Years1,000+ Posts
Comments: 593 · Posts: 4512 · Topics: 128
To Men I Love, About Men Who Scare Me
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Reading the topic title I thought Robyn finally wrote something from her heart. Oh well
One of the challenges I face as a woman is to stay true to who I am - or, rather, who I WANT to be, after going through certain experiences that almost leave me no choice but to change or,cat the very least, leave me strongly justified in why I changed.
"They will still choose to reinforce their dominance with a reminder that they could hurt me if they wanted to, and that I should somehow be grateful if they don’t. This has made me defensive. It has put me more on my guard than I would like to be."
Whilst admiring my BF's strong wrists and big hands I told him: "You know, you could strangle me to death with these hands, but you choose not to. Knowing that you have the potential to kill me if you wanted, but choose not to, increases my affection for you." Then I snuggled up into his neck.
He knows very well he's dating an insane person, so don't go feeling sorry for him.
Whilst admiring my BF's strong wrists and big hands I told him: "You know, you could strangle me to death with these hands, but you choose not to. Knowing that you have the potential to kill me if you wanted, but choose not to, increases my affection for you." Then I snuggled up into his neck.
He knows very well he's dating an insane person, so don't go feeling sorry for him.
😕
but what if the bouncer was a really attractive guy?
Posted by KinglyCrabnot sure how you got the woman part. you're not reading between those lines are you?Posted by HouseCleaningWhat if the bouncer was a woman? Lotta questions we can ask here. Either doesn't make it any better. What this person did was a very shitty thing to do and disrespect this girl/persons rights.
but what if the bouncer was a really attractive guy?click to expand
Posted by KinglyCrabPosted by HouseCleaningWhat if the bouncer was a woman? Lotta questions we can ask here. Either doesn't make it any better. What this person did was a very shitty thing to do and disrespect this girl/persons rights.
but what if the bouncer was a really attractive guy?click to expand
Rights to what? the man didn't violate any legal rights in this country during this incounter.
if we live in what we like to believe to be a free society, in theory should have just as much legal right to say those things, yes or no?
Posted by HouseCleaning
but what if the bouncer was a really attractive guy?
really attractive guys murder women all the time.
I pretty much agree with the author's assertions. The only issue I have is that the larger context is often not discussed. Men often face the same issues but in different ways. But wrong is wrong.
@KinglyCrab I'll break this down for you... Woman would be less motivated to attack molest or just violate another woman, and the average woman doesn't typically have a far greater physical advantage over another average woman. So if the bouncer would be a woman, the situation and context would be completely different.
Posted by beautifulsoul74
I pretty much agree with the author's assertions. The only issue I have is that the larger context is often not discussed. Men often face the same issues but in different ways. But wrong is wrong.
Like you feel afraid for your physical safety?
i agree with this. i've had my share of negative, even frightening, experiences with random men. for example, the other day i was introduced to a male friend of my neighbors and asked to wait with him while the neighbor ran to the corner store and back. while my neighbor was gone, this 40 something year old man asked if he could kiss me and made advances even when i said no. and when i said no, he actually had to ask why?! to which i could only reply at the time, "I'm just not that kind of girl" and excused myself. he was still trying to "persuade" me as i left. all of this made me feel dirty or bad, like i did something wrong. I'm 30 years old and one thinks id be used to this.. but then i think why?! why would anyone get used to this or even have to?! i dont like feeling sexually intimidated. for someone especially with a past of abuse, it can cause almost a PTSD reaction...
Posted by KinglyCrabPosted by AstrobynK I understand. I read it wrong because I rushed but really many women know how to handle these situations without a big deal. People berat each other, it's the human condition nothing new. Males lean to physical berating and humiliation while female with psychological berating and humiliation. She has a wonderful communication tool that is the product of evolution which would of made him aware of the consequences if he continued belittling her. Ain't nothing perfect in this world. We all need to be responsible for ourselves because life isn't just gonna happen.
@KinglyCrab I'll break this down for you... Woman would be less motivated to attack molest or just violate another woman, and the average woman doesn't typically have a far greater physical advantage over another average woman. So if the bouncer would be a woman, the situation and context would be completely different.
I'm not sure if I make sense but then again I just finished 8 hours of lessons at school so forgive me for any discrepancies between my words.
Ciaoclick to expand
You should just not use any words, at all.
oh great
Its not about women knowing how to handle themselves she obviously got through it fine, and she's not making a big deal or trying to address what happened, rather expressing how it affects her and colors her experiences with other men.
I disagree with the idea that humans berate each other as a human condition. How often are women psychologically berating in person as adults?
I disagree with the idea that humans berate each other as a human condition. How often are women psychologically berating in person as adults?
Posted by KinglyCrabi think if the bouncer was an attractive guy this author would of never wrote the article. she would be bouncing on top of him at his place after a long deep penetrating the psyche conversation about woman's rights and respect.Posted by HouseCleaningIt doesn't matter even if he was a green alien. Her right to be respected as a human being were not respected. That human being would be a shit stain even if he was attractive or a she which is not likely. I was just contemplating the outcomes if we would take into consideration other variables. Women are human, men are human, both should be respected but the world doesn't work that way.Posted by KinglyCrabnot sure how you got the woman part. you're not reading between those lines are you?Posted by HouseCleaningWhat if the bouncer was a woman? Lotta questions we can ask here. Either doesn't make it any better. What this person did was a very shitty thing to do and disrespect this girl/persons rights.
but what if the bouncer was a really attractive guy?click to expand
if she opened up in her article how an attractive bouncer guy turned out to be a total dick she would have a stronger case. she can't call him ugly either. the way i see it, she got hit on by a fat ugly guy and shes upset over it.
Posted by Astrobynhook line and sinkerPosted by HouseCleaning
but what if the bouncer was a really attractive guy?
really attractive guys murder women all the time.click to expand
this woman put a light on something momentarily in her angry rant which she claims isn't a angry rant but it is a angry rant.
Posted by tizianiPosted by AstrobynThe Oksana Griegorieva Mel Gibson tapes.
Its not about women knowing how to handle themselves she obviously got through it fine, and she's not making a big deal or trying to address what happened, rather expressing how it affects her and colors her experiences with other men.
I disagree with the idea that humans berate each other as a human condition. How often are women psychologically berating in person as adults?click to expand
lol, That's not an unprovoked anonymous interaction.
Maybe you should learn to enjoy a drink at home amongst friends like cultured adults do and avoid the clubs/shady watering holess.
this is why i am so glad
that my dad taught us
self defense.
this is why my daughters'
father will do the same.
thank goodness not all
men are brainless raging
barbarians.
that my dad taught us
self defense.
this is why my daughters'
father will do the same.
thank goodness not all
men are brainless raging
barbarians.
I don't see it as angry, nor do i see it as momentarily, because the whole point is that these are the moments that we carry with us.
I think part of the point is that some men even good well intentioned ones, have a hard time identifying and understanding how it feels to be the more vulnerable sex. And they lack that point of view and experience.
I was once at a bar on a busy dance floor, dancing with like 5 of my girlfriends. When a guy came up to me blocked me away from my friends grabbed my wrist forced my legs open and dry humped me right there. I didn't even know how to react, it was really loud and he was so strong I could hardly struggle to even make it look like there was anything wrong.
So what does that teach me, fuck this shit can happen in a totally public place while I'm with my friends, I can't feel safe anywhere.
So when she says her friends call it the "rape room" or catcalls... she's telling them that i don't think you realize what we go through because if you did you wouldn't put that extra stress and fear on us for a joke.
I think part of the point is that some men even good well intentioned ones, have a hard time identifying and understanding how it feels to be the more vulnerable sex. And they lack that point of view and experience.
I was once at a bar on a busy dance floor, dancing with like 5 of my girlfriends. When a guy came up to me blocked me away from my friends grabbed my wrist forced my legs open and dry humped me right there. I didn't even know how to react, it was really loud and he was so strong I could hardly struggle to even make it look like there was anything wrong.
So what does that teach me, fuck this shit can happen in a totally public place while I'm with my friends, I can't feel safe anywhere.
So when she says her friends call it the "rape room" or catcalls... she's telling them that i don't think you realize what we go through because if you did you wouldn't put that extra stress and fear on us for a joke.
Posted by WhiteChocolate
IDK what all this is about...but can I still admire a nice female butt when I see one on the street if I don't harass or catcall? Just an unobtrusive and non-obvious look-see?
Or are we all supposed to ignore how pretty some people are?
its to be expected
Posted by WhiteChocolatePosted by AstrobynWhat is?Posted by WhiteChocolate
IDK what all this is about...but can I still admire a nice female butt when I see one on the street if I don't harass or catcall? Just an unobtrusive and non-obvious look-see?
Or are we all supposed to ignore how pretty some people are?
its to be expectedclick to expand
admiration
Posted by WhiteChocolate
JFC...
?
Posted by WhiteChocolate
What if I get cat-called by two trashy redheaded chicks in a Tahoe while I'm walking to lunch downtown?
Can I feel objectified?
You can feel how ever you want, sugar cakes!
I have failed to see a guy make the point where this situation is equal both ways, because of the physical advantages men have over women its hard to put it in the same context.
Posted by HellDorado
"Decent male humans, this is not your fault, but it also does not have nothing to do with you. If a woman is frosty or standoffish or doesn’t laugh at your joke, consider the notion that maybe she is not an uptight, humorless bitch, but rather has had experiences that are outside your realm of understanding, and have adversely colored her perception of the world. "
okay. i empathize with the sentiment but i don't see how someone's experience involving other people has anything to do with me. this is kind of like suggesting i should feel guilt by association as an american for things that other americans do, is it not?
I don't understand where anyone is making you feel guilty. But passing on the awareness of why these situations make it harder to give out trust.
😕
Posted by cheekyfaerieNot at all, I just exercise common sense, take personal responsibiliy and realize that I can't control what may or may not happen to me by keeping myself away from certain people, places and things.Posted by HemispheresSo now she's asking for it because she chose to drink in a bar? Come on...
Maybe you should learn to enjoy a drink at home amongst friends like cultured adults do and avoid the clubs/shady watering holess.click to expand
Bars are bad news.
@tiziani and @HellDorado
idk i took it as she was addressing her male friends and others like them describing them as "decent human males" who don't go out of their way to intimidate women but can do it inadvertently buy making jokes, or just not being aware of the female point of view.
idk i took it as she was addressing her male friends and others like them describing them as "decent human males" who don't go out of their way to intimidate women but can do it inadvertently buy making jokes, or just not being aware of the female point of view.
Posted by HemispheresPosted by cheekyfaerieNot at all, I just exercise common sense, take personal responsibiliy and realize that I can't control what may or may not happen to me by keeping myself away from certain people, places and things.Posted by HemispheresSo now she's asking for it because she chose to drink in a bar? Come on...
Maybe you should learn to enjoy a drink at home amongst friends like cultured adults do and avoid the clubs/shady watering holess.
Bars are bad news.click to expand
so are grocery stores, office buildings and parks.
while the adults talk im going to play
Fair enough, you get in what you put out. Ill be waiting for the next complaint thread to point out fallacies.
Posted by Hemispheres
Fair enough, you get in what you put out. Ill be waiting for the next complaint thread to point out fallacies.
Well, keep trying. I hope you can achieve something one day.
Posted by AstrobynI went to a sexual harassment of females awareness seminar, and I was frustrated at the lack of practical advice given to help women protect themselves. They seemed to focus more on what constitutes as harassment as opposed to what, as a woman, I can DO about it. They talked about getting drunk at a party as though the choice to NOT get wasted at a party wasn't available to me. I don't knowPosted by HemispheresPosted by cheekyfaerieNot at all, I just exercise common sense, take personal responsibiliy and realize that I can't control what may or may not happen to me by keeping myself away from certain people, places and things.Posted by HemispheresSo now she's asking for it because she chose to drink in a bar? Come on...
Maybe you should learn to enjoy a drink at home amongst friends like cultured adults do and avoid the clubs/shady watering holess.
Bars are bad news.
so are grocery stores, office buildings and parks.click to expand
about other women, but being told "there are things you can do to best minimize your chances of assault: try ABC - the risk is always there, but it is a useful precaution" would empower me. As opposed to "we need to wait for men who assault to stop assaulting and this is what assault looks like."
Best thing to do is nip it in the bud, if it continues avoid said person or situation then call police.
Recently was harassed by a former friend I cut ties with a month earlier. Called police first and they gave me those exact steps. All they could do is write a report for record keeping purposes
Recently was harassed by a former friend I cut ties with a month earlier. Called police first and they gave me those exact steps. All they could do is write a report for record keeping purposes
Posted by Hemispheres
Best thing to do is nip it in the bud, if it continues avoid said person or situation then call police.
Recently was harassed by a former friend I cut ties with a month earlier. Called police first and they gave me those exact steps. All they could do is write a report for record keeping purposes
I thought you were leaving?
I don't recall typing those exact words.
i guess everyone went home
how come you didn't hit that guy @astrobyn?
Posted by HouseCleaning
how come you didn't hit that guy @astrobyn?
he had me by my wrist, i had no control my own arms to even try and hit him.
Posted by Astrobynwhat an asshole. have you been back to the same bar since?Posted by HouseCleaning
how come you didn't hit that guy @astrobyn?
he had me by my wrist, i had no control my own arms to even try and hit him.click to expand
Posted by HouseCleaningPosted by Astrobynwhat an asshole. have you been back to the same bar since?Posted by HouseCleaning
how come you didn't hit that guy @astrobyn?
he had me by my wrist, i had no control my own arms to even try and hit him.click to expand
this was like 5 years ago and the bar has been shut down.. But it was a regular spot, I knew one of the managers, friends and coworkers went all the time and that didn't stop me from going there, i don't think i used the dance floor after that tho.
Posted by Astrobyni was thinking it was a dive barPosted by HouseCleaningPosted by Astrobynwhat an asshole. have you been back to the same bar since?Posted by HouseCleaning
how come you didn't hit that guy @astrobyn?
he had me by my wrist, i had no control my own arms to even try and hit him.
this was like 5 years ago and the bar has been shut down.. But it was a regular spot, I knew one of the managers, friends and coworkers went all the time and that didn't stop me from going there, i don't think i used the dance floor after that tho.click to expand
Posted by cheekyfaeriePosted by HemispheresOk. But the point is that we have to put up with that stuff wherever we go so, by your logic, we'd hafta be bliddy hermits because men can't control their urges.Posted by cheekyfaerieNot at all, I just exercise common sense, take personal responsibiliy and realize that I can't control what may or may not happen to me by keeping myself away from certain people, places and things.Posted by HemispheresSo now she's asking for it because she chose to drink in a bar? Come on...
Maybe you should learn to enjoy a drink at home amongst friends like cultured adults do and avoid the clubs/shady watering holess.
Bars are bad news.click to expand
we could wear blankets over our heads and bodies, and only go out escorted by a male family member.
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:)
Laura Munoz
I got a promotion a few days ago, so I decided to stop for a drink on my way home- just me and my sense of accomplishment. I ended up alone in bar, running defense against a bouncer who held my ID hostage while he commented on my ass (among other things), and asked me vaguely threatening questions about my sex life.
This is not a Yelp review. It’s not an angry rant, and it’s definitely not something women need to be reminded of. As far as I can tell there is only one good lesson to pull out of this otherwise shitty and all-too-familiar interaction, which is that in my experience, a lot of thoroughly decent men are still having trouble understanding it.
I have a friend who once joked that it was all right for him to catcall women because he’s good looking. I had another ask me in faux-outrage why it was okay for me to describe a cupcake (as in an actual chocolate baked good) as a “seven”, but not okay for him to rank women the same way. I was recently at a house party where a group of guys referred to a soundproofed recording studio in the basement as “the rape room”, like forty-five times. Some of these jokes were a little funny; some of them really weren’t. But they were all endemic of something more sinister, and I honestly don’t think the men in question even realize it.
So to the generally well-intentioned men in my life, please consider this: no matter what I accomplish or how self assured I am feeling, the aforementioned dickhead bouncers of the world will still believe they have a right to demand my time and attention, even when I want to be alone. They will still insist I be polite and cheerful, even while they make me uncomfortable and afraid. They will still comment about my body and allude to sexual violence, and then berate me for being “stuck up” if I don’t receive it with a sense of humor. They will still choose to reinforce their dominance with a reminder that they could hurt me if they wanted to, and that I should somehow be grateful if they don’t. This has made me defensive. It has put me more on my guard than I would like to be.
Decent male humans, this is not your fault, but it also does not have nothing to do with you. If a woman is frosty or standoffish or doesn’t laugh at your joke, consider the notion that maybe she is not an uptight, humorless bitch, but rather has had experiences that are outside your realm of understanding, and have adversely colored her perception of the world. Consider that while you’re just joking around, a woman might actually be doing some quick mental math to see if she’s going to have to hide in a fucking bathroom stall and call someone to come help her, like I did three days ago.
Please adjust your mindset and your words accordingly.
https://medium.com/life-tips/to-men-i-love-about-men-who-scare-me-dd816cd02e33#.i8u65dycw