Sexyttarius
@TheSag
9 Years1,000+ Posts
Comments: 815 · Posts: 4576 · Topics: 0
The wage gap is wider than you think... (Page 2)
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Posted by LadyNeptunePosted by MissKrabs
gender war for the friday night. i'm in.
the stats are for states? what do the rest of us have to hope for, sigh...
Not gender war.
Facts.click to expand
BAHAHA delusional man-hater invoking the concept of facts.
Woman, you wouldn't know facts if they bit you on the nipple. Facts leave no room for speculation because they're written in stone.
What you use is random information you googled (which can be written by absolutely anyone with no real credibility to speak of), and then you twist it around to suit your delusional outlook. You're like Gemitati in that way. I don't even need to bring up CC's claim that most gay people are gay because they were sexually abused when they were young, according to some retarded site she read - which made it 100% real in her diseased mind.
Less wanking, more proper research please.
Posted by HeavyEntertainmentShowPosted by LadyNeptunePosted by MissKrabs
gender war for the friday night. i'm in.
the stats are for states? what do the rest of us have to hope for, sigh...
Not gender war.
Facts.
BAHAHA delusional man-hater invoking the concept of facts.
Woman, you wouldn't know facts if they bit you on the nipple. Facts leave no room for speculation because they're written in stone.
What you use is random information you googled (which can be written by absolutely anyone with no real credibility to speak of), and then you twist it around to suit your delusional outlook. You're like Gemitati in that way. I don't even need to bring up CC's claim that most gay people are gay because they were sexually abused when they were young, according to some retarded site she read - which made it 100% real in her diseased mind.
Less wanking, more proper research please.click to expand
Not random information. The study is linked. If you don’t care to read and discuss it, kindly take your pedo grooming self out my thread.
Posted by TheSag
There will always be some kind of a wage gap between men and women, it's just natural, whether we like it or not and it will most likely never change, especially not in a raw capitalisitc environment such as the US where people are nothing but workforce slaves (not that Europe or Asia are any different).
Men are taught to be more aggressive and negociate harder because they have to, it's expected from them and women expect it too. Married men with children have to negociate for their families in order to provide for them. Single men have to be aggressive because they might want to have familes as well and need the financial backround to do so and the companies know their job is the No.1 priority. The governments need single men, they want them to do well because they are future tax payers and consumers and more likely to work longer than women do. Younger single women can earn higher salaries but the companies will always consider them as future moms and housewives, who have to take time off, so that might play into the whole thing. Older married women with kids can earn good money but they might have been out of their jobs for too long and the companies will use this against them.
Yes exactly.
This study basically asks you to throw out the yearly wage gap studies that don’t take into account women (and men) who have left the workforce to care for children or elderly.
This study focuses on 3 15 year periods instead. Some interesting things that come to light are how penalties for leaving the work force are high.
Also interestingly, women and men DO make almost equal pay in entry level positions. However women who stay working (no leaves of absence to raise kids etc) were not promoted as quickly as men. Also once you look at the higher level positions, executives and what not, women are paid significantly lower than men.
It also delves into how disclosing salary harms women more then men.
Asking for raises/negotiating harms women more then men.
Lots of the policy it’s proposing would help BOTH men and women in the work force.
Posted by maiden
@LadyNeptune I've opened the study, I'll read it, I'd only pull from it where I question the conclusions they pull based on interpreting stats/data. And then likely that'll just whittle into arguing if I post.
I still might post, who knows maybe I'll learn a thing or two.
But first I Want to point out here, from your 3rd or 4th post:
"But perhaps because they still bear the brunt of childcare, “only 28% of women … worked persistently full-time, year-round between 2001 and 2015,” the report found. That’s compared to 59% of men."
Even in your own excerpt that you pulled from the study you reference, that's a pretty big percentage gap in hours worked, for (the report to make) the argument "equal pay for equal work"
That alone already shakes the credibility of the report for me
Study takes into consideration the number of hours worked.
Read it and let’s talk.
Essentially this study is telling us to throw those yearly studies on wage gap out the window because it doesn’t take into account men and women who have left the work force temporarily to care for children or elderly.
Essentially we need a bigger window of data, not just 1 year.
Study takes 3 15 year time periods.
Posted by Black-MambaPosted by LadyNeptunePosted by Black-MambaPosted by LadyNeptunePosted by Black-Mamba
Ya'll telling me that WOMEN are so weak that they can't tell their boss they need a salary increase and get some pay as other men
maybe we don't deserve equality
when has anything ever been handed
ya'll do realize that 58% of men negotiate compared to 4% women
4%
that's wack
Where are you getting those numbers?
I went to a talk on negotiations and the data presented was dastardly
Where did they get their study from?
How many people and length?
I don't know, but i dont question a researcher who has a phd and whose main career is negotiations
click to expand
Well let’s stick to the study this thread is about and not introduce some numbers you can’t back up where they came from.
Like where did she/he get those from.
Did they interview a few dozen people?
A few hundred?
In the Seattle area or other states?
I’m sorry you never negotiate but I always have. Every 6 months ask for that review and press em for more $ $
Saying women don’t negotiate smh
Too simplistic for this arguement.
Doesn’t account for other factors that play into the gap.
Posted by Black-Mamba
Abort mission. Abort Mission. Abort Mission.
I trust PHDS and HBR research is top ...top top top ...research institution
they aint lying
Lol ok just saw this. Catching up on my thread.
Posted by Black-MambaPosted by BoringPosted by Black-MambaPosted by BoringPosted by Black-MambaPosted by BoringPosted by CoochiecoochiecooPosted by BoringPosted by MissKrabsPosted by BoringPosted by MissKrabs
gender war for the friday night. i'm in.
the stats are for states? what do the rest of us have to hope for, sigh...
Gender war? What do you mean?
it was a joke for the States. probably a bad one. i have the same salary as my male bosses.
There is not a single country in the world in which gender equality is achieved.
The closest you’ll get is Iceland or Finland
All Nordic states have strong traditions in fighting gender inequality. In Swedish Parliament they don't even refer to "women" anymore but instead use "the opposite gender", as gender is a social construct.
Iceland is really not the best example out of the 5 Nordic states tho.
Thats dumb
Gender is a biological construct
Sex is a biological attribution. Gender and the roles and qualities attached to each gender are entirely socially constructed.
yeah different tribes in far flung parts of the world constructed the same gender roles and qualities
yeah sure
i swear Westerners
No. Some tribes have 5 genders, other are matriarchal and the qualities attributed to women and men are different to those given in western societies and etc.
The fact that the male human is often physically stronger than female peers is part of the reason why most societies have developed (strongly under the directions of males) in a patriarchal way and women were given roles that put them in a highly eneven position for an equal and independent life in today's environment.
So do you argue that women should be in the position they are because they are naturally designed to? Meaning that in a family, when a women gives birth she should take care of the offspring and she should have the obligation to take work leave whereas the man shouldn't have even the possibility to take an equal work leave and take as much care of the offspring as his partner, which is the situation in most countries?
Meaning that a women cannot show her face in some regions because men are naturally predisposed to be attracted to them so it is women's responsibility to not attract them by wearing makeup or showing them their body parts and if they got raped it's also their responsibility. Leading to immoderate social exclusion.
Meaning that women should be emotionally expressive, caring, sensitive but also hysterical, unable to reach analytical conclusions via a strong analysis, whereas men should be the opposite, as is the case in all western societies?
Meaning that the women should never express her opinion in front of men, especially husband and father, if the opinion is contrary to their opinions and is related to politics, religion and others, because her natural (as you argue gender is biological) status makes her incapable of thinking about these topics and reech valuable conclusions, as is the case in China and other eastern societies?
I can go on with different gender expectations in different part of the world that by your statement you deemed natural.
You're talking about oppression of the feminine, i am discussing enveloping and freeing the feminine. In fact your post was hysterical.
This comparison to men is awkward, we're not men. If God didn't want us to take care of our babies, he wouldn't give us the ability to have babies. It's extremely lucky that now both are able to parent. You know, the man doesn't need to spear a goat for you and your kids to eat.
but why didn't the woman go out and spear a goat? maybe she just didn't feel like it, and she felt fine being a stay at home mother to the kids she birthed
you know that could have also been an option
click to expand
100%
Obviously women on average leave the workforce more often than men to be caretakers to children and elderly.
But the wage penalty for a woman who leaves the workforce for a year is SIGNIFICANTLY higher than a man in the same position who leaves the workforce for the same amount of time.
Study takes into account these absences from work. But the gap is still significant. Why?
And there are still industries dominated by men. The people at the top control who gets a seat at the table. The good ole boys don’t want women to have a seat.
Basically read the study cc 😅 sheeeet skim it if your lazy, at least.
Posted by enfant_terrible
And as someone pointed out, add to the fact that female-dominated professions include childcare, teaching nursing - all paid overwhelming by TAXPAYERS, while male-oriented jobs such as IT, finance, etc. are paid for by CUSTOMERS.
Now what's that tell you?
Not in this country. Lol look at you still talking out your ass.
Taxpayers have bailed out finance and it tech companies NUMEROUS times. You can’t even get that right.
Child care is not paid by our government.
Only public schools and those are not female dominate. Not even close.
Read the study. It might surprise you.
Posted by BoringPosted by Black-MambaPosted by BoringPosted by Black-MambaPosted by BoringPosted by Black-MambaPosted by BoringPosted by CoochiecoochiecooPosted by BoringPosted by MissKrabsPosted by BoringPosted by MissKrabs
gender war for the friday night. i'm in.
the stats are for states? what do the rest of us have to hope for, sigh...
Gender war? What do you mean?
it was a joke for the States. probably a bad one. i have the same salary as my male bosses.
There is not a single country in the world in which gender equality is achieved.
The closest you’ll get is Iceland or Finland
All Nordic states have strong traditions in fighting gender inequality. In Swedish Parliament they don't even refer to "women" anymore but instead use "the opposite gender", as gender is a social construct.
Iceland is really not the best example out of the 5 Nordic states tho.
Thats dumb
Gender is a biological construct
Sex is a biological attribution. Gender and the roles and qualities attached to each gender are entirely socially constructed.
yeah different tribes in far flung parts of the world constructed the same gender roles and qualities
yeah sure
i swear Westerners
No. Some tribes have 5 genders, other are matriarchal and the qualities attributed to women and men are different to those given in western societies and etc.
The fact that the male human is often physically stronger than female peers is part of the reason why most societies have developed (strongly under the directions of males) in a patriarchal way and women were given roles that put them in a highly eneven position for an equal and independent life in today's environment.
So do you argue that women should be in the position they are because they are naturally designed to? Meaning that in a family, when a women gives birth she should take care of the offspring and she should have the obligation to take work leave whereas the man shouldn't have even the possibility to take an equal work leave and take as much care of the offspring as his partner, which is the situation in most countries?
Meaning that a women cannot show her face in some regions because men are naturally predisposed to be attracted to them so it is women's responsibility to not attract them by wearing makeup or showing them their body parts and if they got raped it's also their responsibility. Leading to immoderate social exclusion.
Meaning that women should be emotionally expressive, caring, sensitive but also hysterical, unable to reach analytical conclusions via a strong analysis, whereas men should be the opposite, as is the case in all western societies?
Meaning that the women should never express her opinion in front of men, especially husband and father, if the opinion is contrary to their opinions and is related to politics, religion and others, because her natural (as you argue gender is biological) status makes her incapable of thinking about these topics and reech valuable conclusions, as is the case in China and other eastern societies?
I can go on with different gender expectations in different part of the world that by your statement you deemed natural.
You're talking about oppression of the feminine, i am discussing enveloping and freeing the feminine. In fact your post was hysterical.
This comparison to men is awkward, we're not men. If God didn't want us to take care of our babies, he wouldn't give us the ability to have babies. It's extremely lucky that now both are able to parent. You know, the man doesn't need to spear a goat for you and your kids to eat.
but why didn't the woman go out and spear a goat? maybe she just didn't feel like it, and she felt fine being a stay at home mother to the kids she birthed
you know that could have also been an option
How was my post hysterical when it was written in a very calm way I don't know but hope you'll tell me.
Female oppression is a result of gender roles and qualities and vice versa - a gender roles are result of continuous female oppression. No one is putting under question the physiological differences between sexes, what is at hand is the roles attributed to both genders which are unequal and not true. What we call masculine and feminine traits are characteristics all humans have in some degree or another. I can be a very strong, independent, intelligent, ruthless and dominant woman and that would be perfectly fine because I've chosen to make these traits dominant, and I can also be an emotional, sensitive and very caring man which is perfectly natural as well. Gender roles however, go against this normality as they create a duality between what is masculine and what is feminine leading to the exclusion of one from the other, where there are in reality two sides of the same coin we all represent individually.
It doesn't matter at all whether one or more women liked being oppressed and were satisfied by their gender roles in the past, so there is no practical point in denying or accepting your hypothesis. What matters is that there are enough women today not accepting and/or not being happy with the gender roles they are expected to conform to and therefore equality should be established.
I, as a man, also don't want to be put into men frames and simultaneously am disgusted by how women are treated even in the most developed societies. For me gender equality would be beneficial to all genders.click to expand
It is beneficial!
Women are a huge contributor to the household finances.
Equal pay and equal opportunity for increased education and promotion means better quality of life for the family. Also studies show if the mother is educated (bachelors or higher) she tends to have less children and those children have further higher education than their counterparts.
People want to make this about gender wars. It’s not.
Your wife or mother or sister having equal pay is a GOOD thing.
But people be out here acting like in order to get that equal pay for women they are gonna be paid less. That’s not how it works.
Posted by BoringPosted by HeavyEntertainmentShowPosted by LadyNeptunePosted by MissKrabs
gender war for the friday night. i'm in.
the stats are for states? what do the rest of us have to hope for, sigh...
Not gender war.
Facts.
BAHAHA delusional man-hater invoking the concept of facts.
Woman, you wouldn't know facts if they bit you on the nipple. Facts leave no room for speculation because they're written in stone.
What you use is random information you googled (which can be written by absolutely anyone with no real credibility to speak of), and then you twist it around to suit your delusional outlook. You're like Gemitati in that way. I don't even need to bring up CC's claim that most gay people are gay because they were sexually abused when they were young, according to some retarded site she read - which made it 100% real in her diseased mind.
Less wanking, more proper research please.
And I said it again - you are pathetic. With the same ridiculousness you can argue that LGBTQ+ are not discriminated and it's perfectly natural to look at them and treat them as we do.click to expand
Meh any chance he has to scream fake news man hater etc etc.
I don’t hate men.
I do hate pedophilic child groomers 🤷♀️
Posted by maiden
@LadyNeptune so a wage gap exists. And the point you are trying to make is that the reason for it is because of something malicious between men and women? In your words what are the reasons for it, what are possible solutions.
Nobody's going to change their mind on either side and some are being less than diplomatic. I can read the same reports as you and analyze differently, so where are you coming from? You want to see a world where women earn just as much as men, maybe more? Same comraderie as men have, equal power in all high positions? What is the end scenario you are after
No🤦♀️ Not once in this thread have I used the term ‘malicious’ or indicated such.
We can’t have a discussion about the thread topic if you refuse to read the study.
So I guess the only thing left to say is good luck in your future negotiations 🤷♀️
Posted by nevesPosted by LadyNeptunePosted by Getbackinline
Negotiate pay better
Oh WOW
Thanks
So smart
Never thought of this
Cause I'm a female and lack that extra appendage between my legs which makes me dumb.
It's more about balls. Big balls (gutsy attitude). And some women have them bigger than other men. Same women that usually earn more than other men - while doing the same job. Tho, yes... it's more common for men to have the courage - to risk loosing their job for a bigger pay (to give their employer an ultimatum - to demand a better pay or they'll quit "even if they don't have an alternative offer - as a safety net). Same as it's more common for women - to settle till they'll find a better payed job. Companies are usually "equally greedy (be it men or women - they'll try to see if you're stupid enough to work for the minimum offer)". So yes, in this sense it sucks to be born a women - "and simply expect others to do the right thing". The business world seems to follow the law of the jungle - only the strongest make it to the top. Self-entitlement works - only if you're part of a family with big status. Even men complain when life's not fair from this point of view - tho, it's more common for women to expect special treatment (to get something without fighting for it "simply because that would be the fair approach"). That's the main issue with "modern feminism (those women that talk about equality - but expect special treatment)".click to expand
Read https://iwpr.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/C474_IWPR-Still-a-Mans-Labor-Market-update-2018-1.pdf
Then respond
I guess I’m asking to much. People don’t have the attention span to scroll through those few pages.
I should’ve known better
I should’ve known better
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Men are taught to be more aggressive and negociate harder because they have to, it's expected from them and women expect it too. Married men with children have to negociate for their families in order to provide for them. Single men have to be aggressive because they might want to have familes as well and need the financial backround to do so and the companies know their job is the No.1 priority. The governments need single men, they want them to do well because they are future tax payers and consumers and more likely to work longer than women do. Younger single women can earn higher salaries but the companies will always consider them as future moms and housewives, who have to take time off, so that might play into the whole thing. Older married women with kids can earn good money but they might have been out of their jobs for too long and the companies will use this against them.